Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty (Read 10601 times)

Aegis808

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00091

Statement of Purpose:   To uphold Second Amendment rights and prevent the United States from entering into the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty.

Vote Counts:   
YEAs   53
NAYs   46
Not Voting   1

yea means a vote to stop the us from entering the treaty. nay means a vote for the us to enter the treaty.

Hirono (D-HI) Schatz (D-HI)

unsurprisingly both of our senators voted nay. how is this not seen as a vote for allowing a foreign influence to have control over our nation's sovereignty?

OldFaithful

Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2013, 12:33:06 AM »
.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 02:16:14 AM by OldFaithful »

WCMTWS

Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2013, 12:37:20 AM »
Our senators supported the federal awb as well.  Just wait until the election next year.  Bye bye.
We can only hope, but knowing how lib this state is nothing would surprise me.

SpeedTek

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Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2013, 12:58:04 AM »
Why do the powers that be want to keep weakening us?

It makes me sick....
Political Correctness is FOS
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lippy laroux

Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2013, 08:51:01 AM »
Why do the powers that be want to keep weakening us?

It makes me sick....

Read the 1963 Congressional Record on Communist activities.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/5/8/133540.shtml

Aiea78

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Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2013, 01:54:43 PM »
Read the 1963 Congressional Record on Communist activities.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/5/8/133540.shtml


jaw drop.  insidious!  look at us now.
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clshade

Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2013, 10:19:22 PM »
While you're in the reading mode, read that treaty. It doesn't infringe on US sovereignty.

I've covered this before. If you want to be afraid that the big bad (US funded since its inception) UN is coming for your guns go right ahead.

UN Treaties do NOT override national laws. They just don't. In order for the US to ratify a treaty that is in violation of out laws we have to change those laws, via due process, before we can ratify the treaty. Nor do we have to abide by a treaty that isn't yet ratified - you know why? We never ratified the treaty that set that rule. Ironic, no?

In short, there is not a snowball's chance in hell that this treaty is going to be any more of threat to the 2nd amendment than we already face from our lawmakers as it is.

You either understand how international treaties work or you don't. Those who are up in arms about this treaty most likely don't. It isn't harmless but it isn't anywhere near as dangerous to the 2nd amendment as it has been made out to be. As I've pointed out before the pro-gun interests could actually GAIN traction from the treaty if they were strategic about it. That they are not tells me they are not thinking strategically about it. They are being sensationalistic about it. Just like the Dems are about Sandy Hook.

The treaty ~could~ make our troops safer in the future, did you know? ~Could~ make things like the insurgencies less dangerous, less well armed, harder for our enemies to supply without repercussions. Of course, it also makes it harder for us to do that kind of thing, too. All without having any affect on America's second amendment. This treaty isn't about the 2nd at all. Sure, some other countries around the table would like it to be but they way these treaties work it can't be.

You either understand that or you don't. If you don't then your arguments about the treaty are completely ineffective, as will your arguments about any attempt to illegally enforce aspects of the treaty in a way that infringes the 2nd should the treaty be signed by the State Dept. You ~really~ need to understand that the treaty, indeed the whole of the UN, does not supersede US law and any attempts to "enforce" it, prior to ratification, would be illegal.

Its exactly like refusing to cooperate at checkpoints: they have no authority to stop and search you unless you engage with them and allow them. You ~really~ need to understand this as it relates to the UN and US law. The way the NRA and the rest of us are talking about this treaty gives it WAAAAAAY more authority than it has. That is uninformed, irresponsible and dangerous.

pastordennis

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Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2013, 10:25:38 AM »
clshade....you in dream land. The politicians in charge now will NEVER obey the law or constitution. I love being free and my freedom. If you wanna support the U.N. go ahead. I WILL NOT. PERIOD.And making our troops safer????? really???? Just like criminals dont enter gun free zones. Get a grip clshade. This is not about obeying the law anymore. Its about legal gun owners surviving to own guns. Without guns....no freedom. And besides...why do the need the U.S.??? Do the damn thing without us.But as always, you have your opinion, and we have ours.Lets focus on no more anti-gun laws and more gun freedom. Do you think you could use your "talent" for this?????? Hmmmm???

clshade

Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2013, 11:36:18 AM »
Dream land. Sounds nice. Thanks, Dennis.

One might argue that you also have no understanding of international law. I didn't say the thing was harmless. I said it is no more dangerous than the politicians we already have in office.

So, in essence, we agree and are both in dream land.  :thumbsup:

pastordennis

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Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2013, 05:04:34 PM »
clshade, I have no understanding of international law. I have a little of our Hawaii law, but not a whole lot. But what I do understand is this....I dont trust our politicians to obey or enforce laws that give us more freedom. Or even try to pass laws that give us more freedom. And I do believe we do agree and we are in dream land if we look forward for the day of the type of freedom we knew as children.If I offended you in any way cl please forgive me. I get passionate when it comes to my 2@ rights I sometimes say things first instead of thinking. I'm sometimes dumber than a bag of hammers. Anyway, keep doing what you're doing. You are waaay more effective than me. We at 2@ Hawaii just need to stick together, play the hand we're dealt and hope and pray for better days. Even if it is a dream. Hang tuff.

10hotindaglock

Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2013, 07:45:27 PM »
Thank you pastor dennis.I have been reading this forum for a long time.I never leave a reply.But i have to agree with you.everything the government has done so far has aimed at taking our freedom away.Why is it hard for some to see they want our guns.Like you i will not give up my guns or sit back and not worry like Mr.shade  thinks we should.I will not relax for a moment and think that the u.n. treaty will not target our 2nd amendment that's b.s..Make no mistake there intention is to disarm America.I will not sit on the fence on this one.Thank you again pastor dennis for standing up and voicing yourself even with all the stuff you have to take from those who feel our government it is not overreaching there powers.Do not be discouraged pastor for there are many who agree and stand with you.I am one of them.For freedom,God bless

pastordennis

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Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2013, 11:45:09 AM »
We all need to stand together on 2@ rights.Thank you for your support. We all agree that 2@ rights are important to one degree or another. I truly believe in the end, our fire arms and each other will be the ONLY thing keeping us truly free.
Free American Gunowner
Pastor Dennis Martin

Cougar8045

Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2013, 11:55:01 AM »
You either understand how international treaties work or you don't. Those who are up in arms about this treaty most likely don't. It isn't harmless but it isn't anywhere near as dangerous to the 2nd amendment as it has been made out to be. As I've pointed out before the pro-gun interests could actually GAIN traction from the treaty if they were strategic about it. That they are not tells me they are not thinking strategically about it. They are being sensationalistic about it. Just like the Dems are about Sandy Hook.

The treaty ~could~ make our troops safer in the future, did you know? ~Could~ make things like the insurgencies less dangerous, less well armed, harder for our enemies to supply without repercussions. Of course, it also makes it harder for us to do that kind of thing, too. All without having any affect on America's second amendment. This treaty isn't about the 2nd at all. Sure, some other countries around the table would like it to be but they way these treaties work it can't be.

Sorry, but this is horse puckey.  The ATT won't make our troops safer or insurgencies less dangerous any more than gun control schemes make our police officers safer or reduce gang violence in our cities. 
I'm just a fluffy white bunny rabbit who lost his way. 

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10hotindaglock

Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2013, 07:27:11 PM »
Cougar i agree 100%.

clshade

Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2013, 07:52:21 PM »
Really? Your reasoning?

To me it seems like the the argument is that the UN has the overarching power to threaten US sovereignty somehow but doesn't have any ability to regulate small arms trade? Which way is it?

International treaties work because the countries involved agree to behave differently. It won't have any affect on black market trade, of course, which is the allegory to police, crime and gun control. In theory, if there is some accountability about governments moving weapons to other countries the amount of black market arms available will eventually decrease. That is partly what will weaken insurgencies and criminal elements over time. Unlike our gun control schemes the treaty is actually targeting sales of arms to criminal and destabilizing agents and NOT sales to other governments, armed forces and citizens in stable places. Unless the US becomes an unstable place (think Somalia) it wouldn't affect the import of arms or ammunition, either. If that happens pretty much all bets are off anyway.

What none of you are getting is that the US already has a pretty clean record of arms sales- in recent years, at any rate - and the treaty would have a fairly small affect on our ability to sell our expensive, high quality arms to our allies. It ~would~ curtail our ability to (openly) sell or give arms to local trouble makers who are temporary allies in larger political conflicts...

... which is EXACTLY what created the Taliban and Saddam Hussein's regime in the first place.

Tell me again how this has no possibility of making our troops safer in the future?

I'm not saying that it certainly would, but the possibility exists if the major arms exporters of the world agree.

Meanwhile, we're all clamoring about the 2nd amendment as if this treaty has any ability to threaten it. It does not. As I've said, no more so than the politicians we already have in office. You either understand that about the UN or you don't - which is my main point. The pro-gun arguments and concerns about this treaty are like the people who let the border patrol search their cars because they think they have the power to do so. They don't, but that doesn't keep people from letting them do it anyway.

We ~really~ need to understand that about the UN.

clshade

Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2013, 08:24:44 PM »
Current version of the treaty is here: http://www.un.org/disarmament/ATT/docs/Draft_ATT_text_27_Mar_2013-E.pdf

Seriously, please read it and point out to me where I have missed the threat to the second amendment. I'm not a lawyer and I could easily be wrong. I'd appreciate anyone clarifying that for me.

Keep in mind that the "Control List" mentioned isn't a code word for civilian registrations. Its the accounting of what arms are sold or transferred to other countries and an inventory of arms available for international sale but not sold. That has absolutely nothing to do with sales within the country.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 08:43:04 PM by clshade »

pastordennis

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Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2013, 11:24:00 PM »
The arms treaty like all other legal documents are only good as far as the signers will follow the law or agreement. Of which our Govt. will not.clshade is probably 100% correct. I dont know law, but I do know law breakers. And if there was any of those around, our current President and scrubs are it. They not only dont follow the law, refuse to enforce the law, they B-R-E-A-K the law. Prosecution be damed. Its all shibai.Load up boys and girls. As for this forum. We all have our own thoughts and feelings. But we must ALL agree on one thing, we need the 2@. Without it, we will never survive whats coming. We have to have each others backs and lock it down tight. BS aside. The line in the sand is drawn. It all stops here. Peaceful if we can, forceful if we must. As for the U.N treaty.......... I will tell the current administration the same thing the whale told God when he saw Jonah swimming in the sea......I AINT A SWALLERING THAT.
Pastor Dennis

Aegis808

Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2013, 11:28:04 AM »
the grey and black market for small arms has always been around and our own government uses both. the small arms treaty will do nothing to benefit troops and endorsing the UN is something we shouldn't be doing anyways. In the end it's more government regulation and that shit never works the way it's supposed to.

pastordennis

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Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2013, 12:46:23 PM »
 Syria
Iran, North Korea and Syria have blocked what would have been the world's first treaty to control the $60 billion a year arms trade.
Syria is in the third year of a conflict that has escalated to civil war.
Syria is in the third year of a conflict that has escalated to civil war Photo: AFP

By Agencies

2:21AM GMT 29 Mar 2013

The draft treaty, which was put before the UN member states for a vote, prohibited the sale or transfer of arms that could lead to acts of genocide, crimes against humanity or war crimes.

Supporters of the treaty admitted the final draft was not perfect and included several loopholes, but it was still regarded as an important first step in dealing with the unregulated and illicit global trade in conventional weapons.

But after two weeks of negotiations the treaty failed to pass the vote.

"This is not a failure, today is success deferred and deferred by not very long," Britain's chief negotiator, Jo Adamson, said.

The British Government has been a major supporter of the Arms Trade Treaty, arguing in part that the playing field needs to be levelled between the rigorous standards of UK exporters and less scrupulous states. The British arms industry has supported the treaty.

pastordennis

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Re: Senate vote to keep the US from entering the UN Arms Trade Treaty
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2013, 10:58:58 AM »
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