This is something that should wake up a lot of community members.
 
Be aware that amost American schools are a victim rich environment.  BY LAW. They will continue to be so,
unless Parents Demand change.
 
The female instructor was made an easy victim by "for the Children" laws, rules and regulations.
 
By law, she could not have with have any weapons giving her a chance of meaningful self-defense
 
As I underdatand, these thing Do Not happen in Israel because all teachers are armed with machine pistols.
 
What killer in his/her right mind would attack an Israelli school.  Israeli schools are (from what I've heard) allows
it's school intructor to carry full auto in open carry city and town areas.  Must work because I've not heard of a sucide bomber
or terrorist attack of an armed school.  Also, I've heard that machine pistol Armed parents help to protect Israeli Schools
 
 
 

I read this story too and I am completely outraged.  Although, I am pretty sure if there are CCW in Hawaii, there will be some restriction on carrying anywhere near schools.

Yeah. Seeing as schools are one of the Criminal Empowerment Zones as far as laws go. It's a really sickening act and they have absolutely no dignity. It's very sad that we have to wait after-the-fact and so many victims must suffer instead of taking preventative measures before anyone is hurt.

Interesting thought. This reminds me of China where there are quite strict laws regarding guns and violence. Recently, there were a few mass knife attacks in some of the schools there. They were specifically targeted because they were easy targets with no defense.

Yep.  On a tangent:  I've always thought to myself after 9/11 that if those extremists really wanted to hurt us, they would start bombing schools.  Schools properties are not secured areas in any way and there is minimal security.  I definitely see in the distant future armed guards or even utilizing police to protect schools.

I plan to be teaching in high school next year (getting certification now). I think that teachers should be allowed to carry guns in high school if extreme circumstances dictate, and I mention this aloud from time to time to my instructors, etc. Of course, it will never happen.

I'm not really pro-guns in general, but being a teacher is one of the more dangerous professions out there. If you occupy a hazardous profession, you should be allowed to carry a gun if necessary.

This news event was in elementary school though, and the attackers were outsiders. So I doubt that anything could ever be done about this to prevent it.

I also think that students should be allowed to carry knives in school if circumstances dictate. For example if someone is being bullied, they should be granted permission by the school to at least carry around pepper spray or something.

Anyone can carry around a pocket knife (with size restrictions I believe) on the street, so students should be allowed to do the same in school.

Interesting theory.  I could see allowing college age students to concealed carry on campus (UH has a strict no weapons policy, citing immediate expulsion as a consequence) but having armed high school kids (who are legally minors) would be a liability nightmare.  I come from a whole line of teachers and fully support the idea of having educators carrying firearms though.  We entrust teachers to be alone with our kids, filling the student's heads with their ideas and shaping their minds... why wouldn't we trust them to defend our kids as well? 

OK, let me say that kids with knives are not a good idea.  I really don't think they(as a majority) do not have the emotional
maturity for deadly weapons.  As is seen a lot, even so called adults aren't "mature".
 
Several years ago, one Texas school does allow their teachers to CCW.  OK with the local LEO.  Reason was that they are 30
miles from the nearest Law Enforcement.
 
We don't have kids/grandchildren, But, If we did, being retired and having some free time, as a Grandparent I would be
willing to volunteer as an Armed School guard along with other parents.  (With the proper training) 
 
The question for a school attacker is, Would you be willing to go up against several Armed and Trained Parents whose kids are in
the school you want to attack?  Or put another way, As a parent, Is any person wanting to hurt (your) kids getting past you?
 
I have a nephew who is attending George Mason U in Virginia.  He's 22/23, he already has his CCW and is a member of the
group nation wide that wants the right to CCW on college campous.  Makes me Pround that I had a hand in him being Pro 2A.
 
Until the government Realizes that They are the Problem for making schools a Victim Rich Environment,
things aren't really going to change.

Can anyone think of a major attack or incident in recent history that DIDN'T occur in a gun-free zone? Churches, malls, schools, Ft. Hood, etc..., the list goes on and on. I would like to think that tragedies like this will help to wake up the politicians/public, but it seems that the antis can't ever seem to put 2 and 2 together. Each time something like this happens, the media and public always ask, "What could have been done to prevent this terrible incident?" The answer is so simple they can't seem to figure it out. Instead, they shut their eyes tighter and BLAME guns for the violence instead of recognizing the obvious fact that the perpetrators specifically chose their location specifically because people are unable to protect themselves.

Active shooters are complete cowards, and the instant they are presented with a threat to THEIR livelihood, they typically give up. The more "first responders" that we, as a Nation, have on hand, the fewer senseless acts of violence we will see.

- Alex

I read this story too and I am completely outraged.  Although, I am pretty sure if there are CCW in Hawaii, there will be some restriction on carrying anywhere near schools.

Thats nationwide, federal law.
 
18 USC 922(Q)
 
Gun-Free School Zone Act

Quote from: 808shooter on October 19, 2010, 09:31:42 AM

I read this story too and I am completely outraged.  Although, I am pretty sure if there are CCW in Hawaii, there will be some restriction on carrying anywhere near schools.

Thats nationwide, federal law.
 
18 USC 922(Q)
 
Gun-Free School Zone Act

Nthere are many exceptions to GFSZ.most states 
problem expect those laws to fall over soon. Also expect  campuses, in which are supported by the state, to allow firearms.  Watch for collorado supreme court to hit that soon.

Can anyone think of a major attack or incident in recent history that DIDN'T occur in a gun-free zone? Churches, malls, schools, Ft. Hood, etc..., the list goes on and on. I would like to think that tragedies like this will help to wake up the politicians/public, but it seems that the antis can't ever seem to put 2 and 2 together. Each time something like this happens, the media and public always ask, "What could have been done to prevent this terrible incident?" The answer is so simple they can't seem to figure it out. Instead, they shut their eyes tighter and BLAME guns for the violence instead of recognizing the obvious fact that the perpetrators specifically chose their location specifically because people are unable to protect themselves.

Active shooters are complete cowards, and the instant they are presented with a threat to THEIR livelihood, they typically give up. The more "first responders" that we, as a Nation, have on hand, the fewer senseless acts of violence we will see.

- Alex

Yep,
Colorado church - shooter shot by armed parishioner
Tenn. Law school - shooter held at gun point by teacher that had to get his gun from the car

Oh, that's right, the situation was improved by having armed citizens....

I just finished collaborating on a guide to active shooter response...without fail, once the shooter was confronted he either gave up, shot himself, or went out in a blaze of self delluded glory. Knowing that a single armed citizen could have minimized or prevented a number of the recent active shooter cases just makes me want CCW more.....

While listening to Perry & Price yesterday in the morning, Perry mentioned that the answer to preventing this from occurring was installing cameras.  Cameras!?!?  They're a passive measure, only slightly better than the "increased education" that the leftists like to push for whenever a sex assault occurs at UH.   How about at least giving teachers (whom we trust with our children's well being everyday anyway) the CHOICE of being armed or not?  Because of attitudes like that, and the fact that all previous attacks on people from out of the blue (the Ewa beach teacher who was murdered recently, Mau-Goffredo's murder/crime spree on Tantalus, the Dana Ireland case many years ago and more) never generate enough outrage to change people's attitudes - I'm severely pessimistic.   I'm almost convinced that CCW will have to be rammed down Hawaii.gov's throat through national means  - not because the few of us here who want CCW aren't trying hard enough, but because the "i feel sorry but glad it wasn't me / it can't happen to me / lucky we live Hawaii" mindset is just too ingrained here.   And if it ever does come to that, the instant reaction will be "dis not da mainland!" and those that want the status quo will rally people from that angle, ignoring all previous instances of unwarranted violence against complete strangers. 

To clarify, I didn't mean to say I recommend all students should be allowed to carry knives in school (although I would be open to considering this policy as well). I only said "if circumstances dictate" for example if a child is being harassed or bullied. In that case, permission to carry some form of self-defense aid (not guns) is only granted to that child.

Similarly for teachers, I said they should only be allowed to carry guns if extreme circumstances dictate. But teachers should be allowed to carry knives, pepper spray, etc under any circumstances.

Anyway, I looked up Hawaii weapon law briefly, and from what I can tell it seems to be the following (please correct or comment if wrong):

1) All switchblade or butterfly knives are forbidden, period. Zero tolerance, they can't even be owned.
2) Folding knives are okay and in general can be carried by anyone, no restriction on size or age.
3) Daggers, firearms, or other deadly weapons cannot be carried. (Even an unconcealed dagger? This makes no sense to me.) There is no mention of swords though. Perhaps that was left vague on purpose. I like swords/daggers so I'm interested to know what the deal is here with them.

4) Any further laws prohibiting weapons, such as in schools or colleges, are written/scattered elsewhere. I haven't found them (would like to) but presume they exist.

Back to the thread topic, I also saw on the news today that people are now considering whether or not elementary schools should hire security guards. I don't know if high schools have security guards. UH certainly does. But security guards can carry weapons/firearms, right? Otherwise they won't be much of a security guard.

I don't know if high schools have security guards. UH certainly does. But security guards can carry weapons/firearms, right? Otherwise they won't be much of a security guard.

Doubt it.

HiCarry,

    That was precisely my point. Out of curiosity, who was the the Active Shooter guide for?

Quote

I don't know if high schools have security guards. UH certainly does. But security guards can carry weapons/firearms, right? Otherwise they won't be much of a security guard.

Doubt it.

When I went to HS in Florida, we had a full-time police officer (who was obviously armed) assigned to our school. To the best of my knowledge, it remains that way to this day. With the present shape of things, I think this should be mandatory across the country. Furthermore, I think that those faculty members who are CCW permit holders should be encouraged to attend an "advanced" (very loosely worded) training class specifically geared towards defense against an active shooter (i.e.: don't go searching for him/them, proper positioning/barricading techniques, MUCH more weapon manipulation training) and then allow them to carry concealed on school grounds.

- Alex

When I went to HS in Florida, we had a full-time police officer (who was obviously armed) assigned to our school. To the best of my knowledge, it remains that way to this day. With the present shape of things, I think this should be mandatory across the country. Furthermore, I think that those faculty members who are CCW permit holders should be encouraged to attend an "advanced" (very loosely worded) training class specifically geared towards defense against an active shooter (i.e.: don't go searching for him/them, proper positioning/barricading techniques, MUCH more weapon manipulation training) and then allow them to carry concealed on school grounds.

- Alex

Well considering how many elementary, middle, and high schools there are in Hawaii that would take an extreme amount of manpower and payroll just to have one police officer on every campus.  I do like Old guy's idea of having community volunteers guarding the schools.  But with the misinformation and social stigma guns have in the community, I doubt they would ever be armed volunteers. 

Alex - It was for area hospitals....and from what I saw, actively engaging the shooter (if armed) usually results in a better outcome....not sure I would want to train the teacher to clear hallways and rooms in an active search, but responding to a perceived shooter in close proximity, especially if you are one of the few armed responders, may not be such an inappropriate suggestion/expectation.

Let me clarify the armed teachers/parents thing.
 
With "training" and depending on the type of situation.  An instructor or parent taking on an Assault is suicide, but if no choice,
then head to the sound of the gunfire.  To slow them down.  One life vs the many.
 
If unsure of the situation, lock down as many students/faculty as possible and secure "your" area until the cavalry comes. 
Gunfight only if last resort if it comes to you.
 
Clearing a building is not part of the job description.  Protecting the lives of the students is the 1st Priority.
 
Basic Strategy and tactics must be part of the training.
 
Don't know how many of you are parents.  If you are and your wife is Anti or neutral on guns, Ask them what would she do to
protect the children?  Would they learn how to shoot, get training and Volunteer to be school guard one day a week?  Or let someone else
they don't know protect the children?  I know what my Wife would say, "Over My Dead body before someone gets to my kid"  Momma Bear
can get very nasty in defense of her cubs.
 
 

After Columbine, some schools in Texas ran this drill. Same as a tornado. You will only put the kids at risk by trying to evac. Just put them under the desks. The teacher and the perp are the only ones standing in a classroom. Kids already know the drill there....perp isn't usually the guy in front of the class and middle aged, underpaid, holding a firearm (unless allowed) etc....