HPD email (Read 10880 times)

Tom

HPD email
« on: April 10, 2013, 05:32:10 PM »
HI, 

I wrote the Mayor a week or so ago about the procedures at HPD firearms and received a reply today from HPD (which I replied to).    It does explain some of the procedures they used.  Writing the Mayor does seem to at least get a response. 

Thought people might find this interesting and be motivated to contact the mayor themselves.  Here are all three letters

--tom

My first letter:

Dear Mayor Caldwell,

First let me thank you for extending the hours at the Kokohead Shooting complex.  The range has been very crowded and the additional hours will help more people enjoy the facility and learn how to safely handle their firearms.  Your efforts are warmly appreciated.

Second, I'd like to discuss the permitting and registration procedures that HPD uses to execute the law.  As you know, there have been increased firearms sales over the last few months.  This increase has highlighted existing problems with the firearms permitting and registration process HPD has chosen to implement.  It is not uncommon for someone to have to take at least a half a day off of work in order to comply with the permitting process.  One could make the case that it is overly burdensome for something that is a constitutional right. 

The problems comes from procedural problems, none of which have anything to do with the law as written.  Some streamlining of the unnecessary red tape would make everyone who has to deal with HPD firearms very grateful.

With that in mind, here are some of the main problems with the current process. 

1. There are 3 functions the firearms division performs: applying for a permit, picking up a permit, registering a gun. All three functions use the same line.  This makes fast functions slow and slow function very slow.

2. Picking up a permit should be five minute process.  Instead people must stand for hours just to pick up their permits.   A separate line for permit pickups would be helpful.  Better yet, HPD could mail the permit to the applicant when approved.

3. HPD does not allow people to fill out the application while they stand in line.   The forms are not online and unavailable until the citizen has stood in the line for several hours.  He is then handed the forms and must stand in the firearms registration room filling them out.  On other Islands, the forms are placed at the entrance and people can fill them out while waiting in line.  This lets the line move more quickly.   The forms could be put on the internet and applicants could download, print and fill them in before arriving at HPD.  Or they could fax them in.  Or submit them online.

4. Only the police station on Beretania will allow firearms registration and applications.  People who come from Mililani must drive into Honolulu 3 times to purchase a handgun.  This increases the lines in town and makes the process unnecessarily painful for people on other parts of the Island.

5. There is no number/ticketing system in the office.  One can't grab a number and come back.  You must wait in the line.

Unfortunately, one of the unintended results of the long lines is that people buy more guns than they normally would just to minimize the number of times they have to wait.  If I have decided to buy a gun this week, I should buy as many as I can so I don't waste hours in line at HPD.  An efficient procedure would eliminate this.

Please help solve this problem.   In the 21st century, the system is run with a process that would be considering inefficient in the 1950s.

I appreciate your taking the time to read this and I hope you will discuss this with Chief Kealoha.   

Mahalo,

Tom

Reply from HPD


Aloha Mr. X,
 
Thank you for your suggestions regarding the firearms permitting and registration procedures.  We realize that the lines have been long and the process lengthy.  Several times a day our Officers will go out and greet the line to remove people that are just picking up permits.  Our forms are numerically controlled for audit purposes and therefore cannot be left in the lobby area, Hawaii law allows each county to adapt their own procedures and ours is to keep the forms controlled. We have come up with several ideas on how to reduce the wait, some of these include kiosks in the lobby, on line applications and a camera system to alert the public of the lines.  We cannot mail the applications for security reasons, we need to verify identification and insure the applicant gets the correct paperwork.
 
Mahalo for your suggestions, if you have any other questions please feel free to contact the Firearms Unit directly at 723-3390.
 
Sgt. D. Paperd
Honolulu Police Dept. Firearms Unit

My reply


Aloha Sgt. Paperd,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.  Everyone appreciates the hard work and dedication of the Firearms Unit of the HPD.   I appreciate that you are considering options to improve the line speed such as online applications.  This would help very much in the long term.  My suggestions were more to alleviate the problems in the short term.        I understand that C&C of Honolulu has implemented the law using its own procedures.  It is some of those procedures which I believe are creating the lines.  I have some comments based on your reply:

1. Having officers come out and ask for permit pick ups is very helpful and much appreciated.  Perhaps the records window could be used for this purpose.  This would, in effect, create two lines - one that moves very quickly.

2. I understand that normal mail for permits might be problematic. However, many areas of the government use registered mail to deliver legal documents such as summons where Identity must be proven.  The federal government allows documents classified as Secret to be sent registered mail.  The applicant could write a Self Addressed Stamped Envelope and pay a small registered mail fee.   Is this not an option?    Since all firearms purchases require ID which would have to match the purchase, a mixup would be of minimal impact.

3. I also understand that you are tracking permits with the pre-printed permit numbers for audit purposes.  However, an incrementing numeric stamp could be used to stamp paperwork upon receipt.  This would enable the paper to be filled out in advance and stamped when processed.   This small change would allow the line to move much more quickly as people would be able to fill out their paperwork at home and would still enable HPD to maintain appropriate audit information.  Since the firearms unit has a single location, a single numeric stamp could solve the problem.

Both of these solutions would shorten the line considerably.  Please consider both long term and short term options such as these.  It would certainly help the public and make the work of the Firearms Unit more efficient with little impact on cost.

Thank you for your service,

Tom
Tom
NRA Endowment Member

xer 21

Re: HPD email
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2013, 06:20:46 PM »
Interesting.

Although I feel they numerically control it simply to have an excuse.

3rdeyeshooter

Re: HPD email
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2013, 06:41:18 PM »
Nicely written. Can't wait for a response.

bass monkey

Re: HPD email
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2013, 06:49:37 PM »
Nicely written.  Guess that's their reason. Control. That's what its all about. Good job on being politics as well.

Funtimes

Re: HPD email
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2013, 06:58:17 PM »
Interesting.

Although I feel they numerically control it simply to have an excuse.

Calling bullshit -

See HRS 134-2, which states "The permit application form and the waiver form shall be prescribed by the attorney general and shall be uniform throughout the State."
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dirsh

Re: HPD email
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2013, 07:41:49 PM »
nice work Tom
what address did you mail the 1st letter to, or was it an email?
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
╾━╤デ╦︻

Tom

Re: HPD email
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2013, 08:07:02 PM »
Email to mayor@honolulu.gov
Tom
NRA Endowment Member

kevlar

Re: HPD email
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2013, 08:30:55 PM »
I think the whole numerical system for audit purposes is BS. Why can't they use a alphabetized system for auditing? This would be more logical considering you could determine under who's name what guns were registered, etc.

GZire

Re: HPD email
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2013, 09:45:35 AM »
So anyone written to the Mayor yet about CCW permits in the C&C of Honolulu?

OldFaithful

Re: HPD email
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2013, 10:25:57 AM »
.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 03:45:04 AM by OldFaithful »

Tom

Re: HPD email
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2013, 11:46:46 AM »
I think the whole numerical system for audit purposes is BS. Why can't they use a alphabetized system for auditing? This would be more logical considering you could determine under who's name what guns were registered, etc.

I suppose it gives them an easy way to count the number of permits issued per day/month/year.  For example, Dec 31 2011 @4.30, permit 123 was issued.    Dec 31, 2012 @4.30 permit 999 was issued.  Therefore, we have issued 876 permits this year.

For the sake of my emails, I am assuming they are trying to do the right things but doing it in a way that creates inefficiency.   Also, being a software engineer, I know the temptation to fix "The Big Problem".  The big problem does not generally get fixed.  It definitely doesn't get fixed quickly. 

I am focused on simple solutions that would work within the existing system but would reduce the line.   Trying to get HPD to revamp the entire system is IMHO a waste of time.    Just because the forms have a permit number pre-stamped on them is not a valid reason to make people wait hours in line.  If they can't go out and just buy a $300.00 auto-incrementing numeric stamp or use registered mail to send permits, they just don't want to fix the problem.

That's my tact anyway.

tom
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 12:23:59 PM by Tom »
Tom
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Re: HPD email
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2013, 03:45:52 AM »
"$300.00 auto-incrementing numeric stamp"

I got two for the office a couple of years ago.  Similar-ish situation.  Only cost about $30 from (I think) Office Depot.  If I recall correctly, you could set them to stamp the same number twice before incrementing.  I think they went to 999 999,.  You could adjust them to start at any number you want.

Thinking of getting one for the house.  Handy thing for numbering bound notebook pages.  I have a couple of wirebound notebooks with all kinds of notes for this and that on random pages and I'd like to create an index for them. 

I guess they're a mite more nowadays. Sample search:

http://www.fredlake.com/category.aspx?categoryID=26&cat=Self-Inking+Numberers&gclid=CPCaxLGlyrYCFfE7Mgod2g8AAw

The HPD officer said,

Quote
Our forms are numerically controlled for audit purposes and therefore cannot be left in the lobby area, Hawaii law allows each county to adapt their own procedures and ours is to keep the forms controlled.

And Funtimes said,

Quote
See HRS 134-2, which states "The permit application form and the waiver form shall be prescribed by the attorney general and shall be uniform throughout the State."

But that's only for the format of the forms, right?  The procedure for application and numbering  is up to the Honolulu PD, right?

All in all, it sounds to me like this is one of those "but we've always done it that way" situations where an outside party can come in, review the situation and streamline it.  I'd be willing to do it, but I'll never set foot in a state which won't honor my carry permit. <bazinga>

Not that it's any of my business anyhow, of course.

Terry, 230RN
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 04:37:25 AM by 230RN »
I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

Funtimes

Re: HPD email
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2013, 08:12:55 PM »
Terry,

Modifying the forms, would make them not uniform :); it also wouldn't be what is prescribed.  The real fact is I have done IPA requests on all documents in all departments, they are not the same - they are not standardized, and more importantly none of them are written by the attorney general.
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230RN

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Re: HPD email
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2013, 08:27:52 PM »
I wasn]t talking about the forms.  I was talking about the procedures for processing them.  Once again:


Quote
But that's only for the format of the forms, right?  The procedure for application and numbering  is up to the Honolulu PD, right?


Did you miss that point?

I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

Tom

Re: HPD email
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2013, 02:02:00 AM »
Got a response to my letter from Chief Kealoha .  It was a scan of a signed letter.  I've retyped it here for ease of reading.  Not sure where this will go (if anywhere).

...

Dear X:

Mayor Kirk Cadwell has asked me to reply to your e-mails of March 29 and April 10, 2013, regarding suggestions to improve the firearms registration process.

The firearms application and registration process are mandated by current laws and requirements.  However, some of your proposals are feasible and will be researched further.

We thank you for taking the time to share you concerns and send suggestions on improving the system.  Should you have any questions please call Sergeant Daniel Paperd of our Records and Idenfication Division.

Sincerely,

Louis M. Kealoha
Chief of Police

cc: Mayor Kirk Caldwell
Tom
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Re: HPD email
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2013, 02:56:07 AM »
^

"...and registration process...?  "

Versus the communication OP quoted:

'Hawaii law allows each county to adapt their own procedures and ours is to keep the forms controlled."

Huh.

I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

Funtimes

Re: HPD email
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2013, 07:58:52 PM »
I wasn]t talking about the forms.  I was talking about the procedures for processing them.  Once again:

 

Did you miss that point?

Their procedure would involve modifying the forms that should be proscribed.   They also do not have a written procedure for processing applications.   Their application and numbering is the form, so i'm not sure what you are meaning lol.   They number the forms, and that is the reason they say that they can't give them out.
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