I've looked up the topic of "straw purchases", but from what I understand it is illegal because the original buyer is lying on the form (think its the ATF 4473?)

So, my question is:  Are there any LEGAL loopholes to purchase firearms?  Gunshow Loophole?  This is to include other states as well.  I'm sure someone can educate me on this topic.  I was having a debate with a co-worker, but didn't know all the answers off the top of my head.

Here is something--  I can go to another state where my brother lives, he can purchase guns at a gun show, give them to me, i can bring them to Hawaii and not register them.  No harm no foul?

Here is something--  I can go to another state where my brother lives, he can purchase guns at a gun show, give them to me, i can bring them to Hawaii and not register them.  No harm no foul?

... and the guns are used in a crime, or get confiscated for being unregistered (assuming the cops get you on some other beef), and now your BROTHER is arrested for federal gun charges as the last known owner, and he throws you under the bus by saying you stole them from him. 

Even at gun shows, the sellers are either FFL holders and must request IDs from buyers, or they are private sellers who must , at a minimum, check the buyer's age (all guns) and state of residence (handguns).

This assumes the feds start enforcing the laws already on the books, which they have not been doing under the current administration.   

... and the guns are used in a crime, or get confiscated for being unregistered (assuming the cops get you on some other beef), and now your BROTHER is arrested for federal gun charges as the last known owner, and he throws you under the bus by saying you stole them from him. 

Even at gun shows, the sellers are either FFL holders and must request IDs from buyers, or they are private sellers who must , at a minimum, check the buyer's age (all guns) and state of residence (handguns).

This assumes the feds start enforcing the laws already on the books, which they have not been doing under the current administration.   

Yep, its all fun and games until someone loses an eye 

... and the guns are used in a crime, or get confiscated for being unregistered (assuming the cops get you on some other beef), and now your BROTHER is arrested for federal gun charges as the last known owner, and he throws you under the bus by saying you stole them from him. 

Even at gun shows, the sellers are either FFL holders and must request IDs from buyers, or they are private sellers who must , at a minimum, check the buyer's age (all guns) and state of residence (handguns).

This assumes the feds start enforcing the laws already on the books, which they have not been doing under the current administration.   

So is the loophole that people speak of about the private sellers?

Here is something--  I can go to another state where my brother lives, he can purchase guns at a gun show, give them to me, i can bring them to Hawaii and not register them.  No harm no foul?

   didn't know that...

Here is something--  I can go to another state where my brother lives, he can purchase guns at a gun show, give them to me, i can bring them to Hawaii and not register them.  No harm no foul?

since when?

every gun arriving in state has to be declared and registered.

if you didnt have to register, why would they have that 72 hour period that you NEED to register from out of state with?

this only skips the background check.

The "loophole" does not exist.  A loophole is an exception to a law which can be exploited to circumvent or avoid the intent of the law legally while (probably) violating the spirit of the law. 

An example would be:  suppose a local development law requires the owner of a building, even unoccupied buildings, to pay real estate taxes if the building receives a certificate of completion.  In order to avoid paying taxes, a builder may exploit this loophole and choose not to "complete" the building.

There are no exceptions in the gun laws when it comes to transferring ownership.  Handguns are not to be transferred to non-residents of the state where the seller/business exists.  If the seller fails to ask for ID to make sure he/she is following the law, that's called an infraction, not a loophole.  The same holds for selling long guns if the state has minimum age requirements for ownership.

Just because there's no enforcement does NOT mean there is a loophole.  It means we have an enforcement problem.

since when?

every gun arriving in state has to be declared and registered.

if you didnt have to register, why would they have that 72 hour period that you NEED to register from out of state with?

this only skips the background check.

That is why our current laws and the proposed laws are essentially useless and a waste of time and tax dollars. It depends on the individual to know and abide the law. Criminals,  by definition,  won't follow it. Unless they are incredibly stupid, in which case they would be caught anyway.   


Loopholes in gun law is a fallacy.

I'm assuming you can fly to the mainland, buy a gun, ship it back here and register it.  Without applying for any permits to acquire.

I think the biggest question is, are background checks required for every legal purchase of a firearm regardless of location, private sale, out of state purchase, private sales online, gun shows, gun stores, etc.  I'm limited to Hawaii, but if the answer is yes, apparently there is no loophole.

From what I know you have to be a resident of that state to acquire firearms legally. Each state is different so you need to check their laws to acquire first.

Then to get them to Hawaii you have to have them sent to a FFL in order for you to legally register them in Hawaii.  They have to be shipped from the Seller to an FFL who will accept out of state transfers. (most shops will not because there is no legit paper trail.)

this is on the ATF site:

Unlicensed Persons Questions

Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?

    A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

since when?

every gun arriving in state has to be declared and registered.

if you didnt have to register, why would they have that 72 hour period that you NEED to register from out of state with?

this only skips the background check.

So who enforces this? How does PD know gun came into state? I brought it on the plane with me.  Up to me to register.  Yes, if I get caught with it my house of cards falls.  But I am a criminal, what do I care about the state's unenforced requirement to declare and register?  Every gun gets registered as long as someone goes and does it.  I would wager that there are many that don't.  Does HPD talk to Hawaiian Airlines to see who brought guns in with them?  I would bet not.

Just to clarify, when I was having the debate we were speaking of out of state laws.  For example these were some of the questions that was asked to me:
-do all states require background checks?
-can't you get a gun from a gun show without a background check legally?

and something about "straw purchases".  I'm not well versed in out of state laws and regs, and didn't know the answers, so the guy kinda walked away like he showed me up... bothered me a bit.

Just to clarify, when I was having the debate we were speaking of out of state laws.  For example these were some of the questions that was asked to me:
-do all states require background checks?
-can't you get a gun from a gun show without a background check legally?

and something about "straw purchases".  I'm not well versed in out of state laws and regs, and didn't know the answers, so the guy kinda walked away like he showed me up... bothered me a bit.

In my example my brother was the straw purchaser.

Also, lets say I bought a gun back in 1994 while living in another state.  Then I move to Hawaii, bring gun with me.  I can either a) register it as import with no background check (although I did get a background check back in 1994, that was a long time ago and maybe I have committed a felony or two since then) or b) not register it at all and as long as I don't get caught no one is the wiser.

Just to clarify, when I was having the debate we were speaking of out of state laws.  For example these were some of the questions that was asked to me:
-do all states require background checks?
-can't you get a gun from a gun show without a background check legally?

and something about "straw purchases".  I'm not well versed in out of state laws and regs, and didn't know the answers, so the guy kinda walked away like he showed me up... bothered me a bit.

Ok, so here's the deal with federal laws.  Private sales are not subject to a federal background check.  That's not a loophole, that's a deliberate function of the law; it's what allowed my Dad to give me a rifle for an early Christmas present before my first hunting season.  It's how I can buy a rifle from my cousin, or from a guy I know at work without having to be hassled by the ATF.  That private sale, which is deliberately not subject to a background check, could happen at a gun show, but that's irrelevant.  There's nothing special about gun shows that allows anyone to do anything they couldn't otherwise legally do.  There is NO gun show loophole.  If you're a private seller at a gun show, you can conduct a private sale without a background check, just like you could in your living room.  If you're in the business of selling guns, you have to have an FFL (Federal Firearms License) and have to conduct a background check, whether you're in your shop, at your house, or at a gun show.  Gun shows change nothing. 

No, not all states require background checks.  I don't know the numbers, but I'd wager that most of them don't.  Hawaii is one of only a handful of states that require registration of firearms--the rest understand that the type/number of guns a private citizen owns is none of the government's business.

To the above comment about travelling to the mainland and buying a gun: You cannot conduct a private transfer across state lines, under any circumstances.  Doing so is a federal felony.  In fact, you can't even buy a handgun out of state from an FFL; you can only buy a rifle or shotgun outside your state of residence.  That's not a straw purchase, necessarily, unless your brother deliberately bought the gun for you.  In that case, he'd be guilty of two offenses, one for the straw purchase, and another for the illegal transfer. 

Straw purchases: Lying on the ATF background  check is a straw purchase, and subject to lengthy prison terms.  I don't know why gun grabbers think the existence of straw purchases is a reason for expanded background checks--a straw purchase is a means of defeating a background check.  Straw purchases are impossible to stop unless you plan to ban guns entirely.  As long as some number of people can legally buy guns, some of them will buy them and sell them to the ones who can't.

In a nutshell, this is what happens if you get caught with an unregistered firearm.  Section 134-3(b) says you have to register...

Any person who violates section 134-3(b) shall be guilty of a petty misdemeanor and the firearm shall be confiscated as contraband and disposed of, if the firearm is not registered within five days of the person receiving notice of the violation. [L 1988, c 275, pt of §2; am L 1994, c 204, §9]

That assumes you weren't breaking other laws when you got caught.  At some point, the charges can become substantial enough that you can never legally own another firearm in Hawaii.

What to do:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0003.htm

What happens if you don't do it:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0017.htm

So who enforces this? How does PD know gun came into state? I brought it on the plane with me.  Up to me to register.  Yes, if I get caught with it my house of cards falls.  But I am a criminal, what do I care about the state's unenforced requirement to declare and register?  Every gun gets registered as long as someone goes and does it.  I would wager that there are many that don't.  Does HPD talk to Hawaiian Airlines to see who brought guns in with them?  I would bet not.

A) that's not a a loophole.  that's straight willfully ignoring the law.
B)i do believe firearms must be declared either when shipped, or travelling.  so yeah, Hawaiian Airlines just might give HPD a notice.  who knows?

From what I know you have to be a resident of that state to acquire firearms legally. Each state is different so you need to check their laws to acquire first.

Then to get them to Hawaii you have to have them sent to a FFL in order for you to legally register them in Hawaii.  They have to be shipped from the Seller to an FFL who will accept out of state transfers. (most shops will not because there is no legit paper trail.)

this is on the ATF site:

Unlicensed Persons Questions

Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?

    A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

i thought that was just handguns?

A) that's not a a loophole.  that's straight willfully ignoring the law.
B)i do believe firearms must be declared either when shipped, or travelling.  so yeah, Hawaiian Airlines just might give HPD a notice.  who knows?

Airlines doesn't let HPD know anything.  That would incur costs, manpower, and time.  All of which they will not do with no law to tell them to do so.  And they would charge the traveler for it too.