The part that makes no sense is requiring everyone to get a long gun permit to take a handgun course.  You are also asking that everyone do the 2 week wait before being allowed to attend the class.

Not everyone wants to buy a long gun (strange, yes, but true!).  Plus, the added cost to the state/county to issue the superfluous long gun permit to acquire would be very wasteful.

If the extra cost and time of doing this just to handle a gun for training will actually solve the problem, then it makes sense.  If this does NOTHING to screen out violent or suicidal mentally disturbed people who are more likely to pose a danger to themselves or others, then the process you outlined will be like many of the anti-gun regulations we already have.  They make someone feel better, but they have zero effect on preventing these life threatening situations.

I believe the point he was making was that it would force anyone wanting to take a handgun safety course to already have received a background check verifying their suitability to own a firearm and would also force them to wait two weeks to attempt suicide at a handgun training class.

Not an altogether bad idea, only bad part is it forces everyone to suffer for the 1/100,000th of a percent of people intent on committing suicide this way.

In 2010 (the last year I can find CDC statistics for) there were 31,672 deaths due to firearm related injuries.

This number includes all murders, suicides and accidents.

30,944 of these deaths were by black, white and Hispanic people.

Based on my research I am led to conclude that statistically, Pacific Islanders are less likely to die from firearms.

Yea!!!!! 

It also helps that we have the lowest % of people without firearms.

On the negative side (for us) that means that we have more anti gun people living here. They live among us.

Maybe that's why we have very anti gun laws and in the top 5 for being unfriendly to gun owners.

I believe the point he was making was that it would force anyone wanting to take a handgun safety course to already have received a background check verifying their suitability to own a firearm and would also force them to wait two weeks to attempt suicide at a handgun training class.

Not an altogether bad idea, only bad part is it forces everyone to suffer for the 1/100,000th of a percent of people intent on committing suicide this way.

When I bought my first handgun, there was a federal law that mandated a 5 day waiting period to take possession of a handgun after purchase.  I always thought that was the "cool down" period allowance.  I eventually got my CCW in WA that allowed me to take possession right away, but had no use for it here, so I let it expire years ago. 

This unfortunate incident does serve as a reminder for all to be vigilant and maintain situational awareness.  A day at the range should be fun, relaxing and enjoyable experience.  This incident will be on my mind the next time I'm at the range or teaching a basic pistol course for sure.  However, I can't let it diminish the enjoyment that I get from shooting. 

The 14 day waiting period doesn't make sense in it's current form.  If anything, it should be 14 day waiting period on your first firearm application, supposidly for cool down period/mental health checks, etc.  It shouldn't apply to any firearm purchased after that. 

Its sad but fact is there is not much anyone can do if a person is determined to take their own life.


Just an idea here: Since the majority of people are taking the pistol safety course to buy a handgun and with Hawaii laws being what they are, why don't instructors request that students get their long gun permit first? Instructors would know that some sort of background check has been done. And students will know if they can own a firearm, what they need to get sorted out and then decide whether they still want to spend $100+ for the class. Does that make sense or is it just me?

I must respectfully disagree with Moose and think this is a good idea.  It is not uncommon for trainers to ask for copies of permits to acquire before allowing you to take their instructional classes.


Is it wasteful? Yes and no.  If the person gets a long gun within a year, then no it is not wasteful.  If the person does not get a long gun within a year, then it's really on the C&C and State for requiring this as part of their process.  No other Right requires you to be registered/checked out/etc.  Can you imagine if the reporters/journalists of this country had to reapply every year for their First Amendment permit so they could report news or write stories or perform investigative journalism?

The 14 day waiting period doesn't make sense in it's current form.  If anything, it should be 14 day waiting period on your first firearm application, supposidly for cool down period/mental health checks, etc.  It shouldn't apply to any firearm purchased after that.

14 day period is supposedly/probably to allow the different PD's time to perform their background, mental health, processing, etc.  Not saying it's right or efficient, just what the time is probably for.

.

I must respectfully disagree with Moose and think this is a good idea.  It is not uncommon for trainers to ask for copies of permits to acquire before allowing you to take their instructional classes.


Is it wasteful? Yes and no.  If the person gets a long gun within a year, then no it is not wasteful.  If the person does not get a long gun within a year, then it's really on the C&C and State for requiring this as part of their process.  No other Right requires you to be registered/checked out/etc.  Can you imagine if the reporters/journalists of this country had to reapply every year for their First Amendment permit so they could report news or write stories or perform investigative journalism?

So, what, exactly is accomplished by obtaining the permit pre-training?  (the obviously baited question assumes you see some benefit derived from the process of applying for a permit)

So, what, exactly is accomplished by obtaining the permit pre-training?  (the obviously baited question assumes you see some benefit derived from the process of applying for a permit)

I thought that part was pretty clear: because the majority of folks are taking the class to meet state requirements to purchase a handgun. Never said it should be a prerequisite for the class, just a sensible recommendation. Because if someones goal is to own a handgun, knowing that they can pass the background check and get a permit to acquire would certainly benefit them in the end. I don't think it matters if someone is going to get a long gun. It's about getting the printing/photographing/background check part out of the way and possibly finding out if there is something they need to resolve.

IMHO getting the required background checks and permit for long gun will do nothing to avert what happened in this incident or any other suicidal attempts or even those who intend to use the firearm for ill intent.  If a person is that motivated, they will do regardless.  All the permitting and requirements forced on us does is infringe on your rights and cause law abiding citizens to waste time and money.  Otherwise you would see massive shootings, suicides, and utter chaos in states that do not have all these hoops to jump through.  Since we do not see this, and it has been proven, with O-losers own studies, that an armed law abiding citizenry actually make communities safer, IMO the whole process is a waste of time.

Just do an instant background check at the gun store and be done with it.

IMHO getting the required background checks and permit for long gun will do nothing to avert what happened in this incident or any other suicidal attempts or even those who intend to use the firearm for ill intent.  If a person is that motivated, they will do regardless.  All the permitting and requirements forced on us does is infringe on your rights and cause law abiding citizens to waste time and money.  Otherwise you would see massive shootings, suicides, and utter chaos in states that do not have all these hoops to jump through.  Since we do not see this, and it has been proven, with O-losers own studies, that an armed law abiding citizenry actually make communities safer, IMO the whole process is a waste of time.

Just do an instant background check at the gun store and be done with it.

+1

The reality that a motivated person is capable of doing damn near anything they want to, regardless of any laws or obstacles.

So, what, exactly is accomplished by obtaining the permit pre-training?  (the obviously baited question assumes you see some benefit derived from the process of applying for a permit)

This:

I believe the point he was making was that it would force anyone wanting to take a handgun safety course to already have received a background check verifying their suitability to own a firearm and would also force them to wait two weeks to attempt suicide at a handgun training class.

Not an altogether bad idea, only bad part is it forces everyone to suffer for the 1/100,000th of a percent of people intent on committing suicide this way.

Training is not only about a persons Right to own a firearm, but it's can also be a financial one for the trainers.  What if the person cannot be issued a permit to acquire and backs out?  Trainer is now left with a spot that could have been filled by someone else.  The second reason is if they will be rejected in the permit to acquire process I'd rather not be associated with that individual until something changes where they can.

I do agree that if someone wants to do something nutty, they will..........not much you can do about it.

It's just my preference (and I am credentialed that I could teach the NRA Basic Pistol). 

I have 2 daughters, both over 21.  Neither owns a gun of any type, and neither has been required to pass a background check.

*I* personally required they take the handgun safety class and go practice with me before I allow them access to my guns unsupervised (read as: have the combos to the safes).

One took the handgun safety class with me and has been practicing nearly every time I do, and the other has not.  One has access to the gun safes, and the other does not.

Requiring a background check, long gun permit, or any other state-mandated requirement would be an unnecessary imposition on our time ... unnecessary in that it offers no real benefit toward safety.

There is no need for a permit if the student is not planning to buy a gun.  Even IF you require a background check, what will that accomplish?  People who know they can't own a gun aren't going to take a safety class HOPING they can get a permit.

Next you'll tell us we all need a background check to become a parent!!

IMHO getting the required background checks and permit for long gun will do nothing to avert what happened in this incident or any other suicidal attempts or even those who intend to use the firearm for ill intent.  If a person is that motivated, they will do regardless.  All the permitting and requirements forced on us does is infringe on your rights and cause law abiding citizens to waste time and money.  Otherwise you would see massive shootings, suicides, and utter chaos in states that do not have all these hoops to jump through.  Since we do not see this, and it has been proven, with O-losers own studies, that an armed law abiding citizenry actually make communities safer, IMO the whole process is a waste of time.

Just do an instant background check at the gun store and be done with it.

I like this idea the best.

There is no need for a permit if the student is not planning to buy a gun.  Even IF you require a background check, what will that accomplish?  People who know they can't own a gun aren't going to take a safety class HOPING they can get a permit.

Actually just the opposite is true.

People who know they can't own a gun will take a class or rent a gun in order to get an otherwise unobtainable firearm in their hands.

Let me make something clear, I do not support additional background checks, classes or other restrictions.

The reality though is that people that can not otherwise possess a firearm, and intent on suicide using a firearm will try anything possible to get their hands on a firearm.

Statistically the person that commits suicide with a firearm (at a range or class) falls into certain parameters.

1)Usually they are alone.

For this reason most ranges that rent guns will not rent a gun to an individual.

If you're with another person, they'll rent you a pistol.

Now if you bring your own pistol, you can shoot there with no problem, even if you're alone.

2) People that own firearms do not typically go to a range to commit suicide if they decide to commit suicide.

There are other factors but these two relate to the current discussion.

Next you'll tell us we all need a background check to become a parent!!

Absolutely.

Some of these welfare collecting, drug addict bums that become parents have no business doing so.

Can't really sterilize the world.   

I have 2 daughters, both over 21.  Neither owns a gun of any type, and neither has been required to pass a background check.

*I* personally required they take the handgun safety class and go practice with me before I allow them access to my guns unsupervised (read as: have the combos to the safes).

One took the handgun safety class with me and has been practicing nearly every time I do, and the other has not.  One has access to the gun safes, and the other does not.

Requiring a background check, long gun permit, or any other state-mandated requirement would be an unnecessary imposition on our time ... unnecessary in that it offers no real benefit toward safety.

There is no need for a permit if the student is not planning to buy a gun.  Even IF you require a background check, what will that accomplish?  People who know they can't own a gun aren't going to take a safety class HOPING they can get a permit.

Next you'll tell us we all need a background check to become a parent!!

1. I commend you on having your daughters take a safety class prior to allowing them to shoot.
2. With regards to safety, I do agree that people who want to resort to violence will find away.  I will again reiterate it's one more level of protection to guys who perform the classes and again as a person who is certified to do so this is something I would consider to help protect me (if not safety wise, then at least financially).
3. I do disagree about background checks as the guys south of the border then would have free reign to purchase firearms legally above the border and move them south.  To date this is done illegally through straw purchases, but there does need to be some checks and balances.  The trouble is what would be a "reasonable" checks and balances.
4. Background check to become a parent.........the State already decides that for you in some cases:
http://rt.com/usa/california-prison-sterilized-inmates-782/