Deedy Trial - Injustice? (Read 315312 times)

pj_benn

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #200 on: July 15, 2013, 04:12:55 PM »
I don't care if Deedy planted an AA-12 on Elderts
Please accept my apologies kind sir. I thought your opinion was biased. I can see from this statement that you are completely unbiased. also it was silly of me to think that someone planting evidence and coordinating with witnesses to give false reports to le might think that they were guilty of a crime.

Q

>:D
« Reply #201 on: July 15, 2013, 04:26:08 PM »
 >:D
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 10:54:49 PM by Q »

aieahound

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #202 on: July 15, 2013, 05:58:59 PM »
both men, including and specifically Elderts, could have simply walked away, and chose not to.

Still not getting this one.

at this point, looks like Deedy picked a fight.
It does appear he told Elderts something like " you wanna get shot ? " or something like "I'll shoot you. "
Wouldn't you first tell the guy "you're gonna be arrested" or "i"ll arrest you "

to say Eldertts should have been the bigger man is absurd in my opinion. The bigger man should have been the college educated, well-trained, firearm carrying special agent. To say the Moke should have deescalated the situation is a stretch. 
Until Deedy approaches Elderts, it looks like the situation was already deescalated. This is consistent with the testimony from skinny jeans hipster dude.

Footnote: See contents of prior post.

pj_benn

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #203 on: July 15, 2013, 06:10:21 PM »
Lol at you pretending to care about facts. How bout this you tell me the sources that you found that aren't 'legit' enough for you so I don't have to waste my time with those. Have you followed this case from the beginning?

While you're at it please take the time to respond to aieahound.

Q

>:D
« Reply #204 on: July 15, 2013, 06:26:17 PM »
 >:D
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 10:54:55 PM by Q »

Q

>:D
« Reply #205 on: July 15, 2013, 07:06:34 PM »
 >:D
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 10:55:05 PM by Q »

pj_benn

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #206 on: July 15, 2013, 07:26:35 PM »
Damn you referred to me in a very rude manner.

Where's deedy when I need him?

Mr deedy if you're out there can you please defend my honor and kick this man down then shoot him if he approaches you instead of immediately deescalating?

aieahound

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #207 on: July 15, 2013, 07:35:22 PM »
While you're at it please take the time to respond to aieahound.

:sleeping:

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 :geekdanc:

Jl808

Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #208 on: July 15, 2013, 07:37:51 PM »

With what you are referring to here is what's known as being "contributary" to the situation. In the case of Hawaii there is no "stand your ground" law so there is no fall back on that.  In Hawaii the "contrubutary" issue is Deedy not just immediately backing off.  So I do understand your point, but I will again offer up that Deedy is a Federal officer and as such he is (possibly) going to be subject to a different set of rules than a normal citizen.  We are allowed (encouraged) as normal citizens to leave, whereas a LEO may not have such a luxury.  Leaving could get these guys into more trouble than staying to address a situation.

See HRS 703-304(5) below which is the contributary section you are referring to above.


HRS 703-304 covers where deadly force may/may not be used.  You will notice that even if an arrest is unlawful Elderts would not be legally allowed to employ deadly force against Deedy if as acting as a LEO (and he identified himself as such).

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0703/HRS_0703-0304.htm


I agree especially about the LEO rules part. This case is somewhat different from a regular self defense as someone attacking a LEO is a big no-no. That video where Agent Aki examined the video was helpful in helping me understand the situation. Attacking a LEO = big FAIL on Elderts part.  If he was sober and not high on narcotics, perhaps he would have had better sense than to pick a fight with a LEO.


I understand your point about alcohol and firearms not mixing, however it is not a realistic situation.

There are a lot of times where someone may be partaking in an alcoholic beverage and it does not affect their ability to reason or their motor skills.  This is why there is a BAC threshold for driving a vehicle, so a 0 tolerance with alcohol and firearms IMHO is not a realistic argument.  I agree it's something to strive for, but there will always be a time where there is a justification to operate a firearm when having an alcoholic beverage.

Yes, it is not realistic, but just because many people do it doesn't make a wrong thing right.

Yes, I'm sure there are many instances where someone who has drunk some alcohol, still manages to drive home safely without getting in an accident.

However, If someone alcohol level is over a certain limit, they become a menace to others if they decide to drive a motor vehicle.  A LEO who has alcohol over the limit should probably not drive, right?  Should they be operating a firearm also or even be trying to enforce the peace?  Perhaps yes under certain instances, depending on the severity of a situation.

That witness testimony about Elderts saying "to just shoot him" is kinda nagging at me.  From the video, it seems like the situation may have been de-escalated until Deedy went over and talked to Elderts. What exactly did Deedy say and how did he say it?  Was Elderts threatening someone and making a public disturbance and Deedy wanted to go over and straighten him out?

Perhaps Elderts was still mouthing off while sitting at the chair? I wonder what he was saying?  Could he have been insulting Deedy's wife?  Could Deedy have gotten pissed off because of a racist comment that Elderts said? 

Seriously, I hope Deedy did everything right and he did not have a failure in judgement that night. I would want nothing more than to hear that Deedy was justified in his shooting and did not cause an escalation and making the situation become more dangerous.

But the drinking and shooting someone bothers me... especially by a LEO.

At this point, without additional evidence, i can only guess. Deedy might be the only one knows what was said that night.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 07:45:25 PM by Jl808 »
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

aieahound

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #209 on: July 15, 2013, 07:46:05 PM »
Good points Jl.  More to think about.

This piece meal media crud is a pain.

Can't wait to see how they report the defense interpretation of the video, as that's the only hard evidence. 

Q

>:D
« Reply #210 on: July 15, 2013, 07:56:53 PM »
 >:D
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 10:55:12 PM by Q »

Q

>:D
« Reply #211 on: July 15, 2013, 08:00:42 PM »
 >:D
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 10:55:22 PM by Q »

Jl808

Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #212 on: July 15, 2013, 08:23:15 PM »
Guys, I'm gonna just watch and see what happens next here.  I think this incident has FAIL written all over it. 

I just have a hard time seeing right now how this helps bring CCW to Hawaii.   I am starting to see chatter on the social networks that guns (not idiots) causes deaths.

Elderts - he could have made the outcome of this better.  MAJOR FAIL.

Deedy -- well, he is on trial now.  I hope that the evidence shows that he is in the right.   :shaka:   If not, MAJOR :'(

The only other good thing that can come out of this is.. what lessons can we learn?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 08:33:34 PM by Jl808 »
I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

macsak

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #213 on: July 15, 2013, 08:37:57 PM »
you rang?

Sounds like someone needs a big mac.  :rofl: :shake: :crazy:

imanley

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #214 on: July 15, 2013, 09:55:21 PM »
No matter how big you are, how strong you are, how well you are trained someone out there will be better than you.... or luckier.  I would not  take that chance. Once being on that shit end of the stick, and im am NOT big, strong, or that well versed in hand to hand, so I would not let that happen to me again.  I was lucky once, maybe not so lucky next time.  Anything can happen, and you might end up dead.

Agreed, through personal experience, as well as many videos etc. that are out there, one punch and people can fall back hit there head and be paralyzed or in a coma. That is why I shake my head when I hear people say fight it out. Being born and raised here in the islands we have a culture of fighting not found many other places on the mainland, however once you grow up you realize you have family, work, life that is much more important than throwing hands to prove who is tougher. It is worse in the mainland because it is almost always never one on one either. I am not willing to risk my life, health or safety nor that of my loved ones. I will be willing to do anything within my power to get safely home, if someone threatens violence I view that as a threat on my life. So many people have this romanticized idea of fighting whether from tv, movies etc. There are many things that can change your life forever from these altercations, just remember that legally, physically, and personally.

aieahound

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #215 on: July 15, 2013, 10:34:37 PM »
Ho brah, no take sides ah?! Bumbye we go meet Mcdonalds and scrap li'dat!

BTW, its cool; I'm local, so I can say that. No need to call me a racist.

Take sides ? with who, myself ?

No worries except for the part that you claim I called you a racist ?
Not getting that either.
Footnote: See my prior posts
( Then again, I might not have caught the joke.  :( )

Still waiting for an articulated response.

to your theory of the HIgh school educated moke mentality guy should have been more responsible than the college educated, highly trained, firearm carrying special agent of the State Dapartment for de-escalating the situation.
Which appeared de-escalated until the College educated, highly trained, firearm carrying special agent interjected himself.
( with consideration for the points Jl808 brought up )

both men, including and specifically Elderts, could have simply walked away, and chose not to.

The posts go back farther than that but I couldn't figure out how to quote them.  :oops:
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 10:52:54 PM by aieahound »

Aiea78

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #216 on: July 15, 2013, 10:41:44 PM »
Ho - it looked like Deedy flashed his badge at a seated Elderts?  Hard to tell the vid went so fast on the news!  Then followed with AuYang's comments on Elderts saying what you gonna' do shoot me?

Yah, we not in the court room getting the whole story.  Let it play out we find out.
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hvybarrels

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #217 on: July 15, 2013, 10:48:04 PM »
You might be waiting a while for an articulated response. First they call you a troll while simultaneously trolling you because when you start to point out the holes and inconsistencies in their logic they resort to every available tactic to avoid the issues. When they start calling you names and attacking your character you know you are winning.
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moosed

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Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #218 on: July 15, 2013, 10:56:49 PM »
You might be waiting a while for an articulated response. First they call you a troll while simultaneously trolling you because when you start to point out the holes and inconsistencies in their logic they resort to every available tactic to avoid the issues. When they start calling you names and attacking your character you know you are winning.

When only cops have guns, it's called a "police state".

aieahound

Re: Deedy Trial - Injustice?
« Reply #219 on: July 15, 2013, 11:01:06 PM »
Hvybarrels.

No offense, but you're not helping me. 
Come to the functions, and we can do this is in a "civil manner" loud as crap, full of emotion, hug and go home.  :shaka:
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 11:06:33 PM by aieahound »