Interesting encounter.

Ive seen many videos like this. Usually it is a very similar incident. Officer does not know the laws...superiors get called to the scene and they usually say you are free to go. Many people look at this and think it gives open carriers a bad name.. just trying to get attention.. etc..  but it is true. If we do not stand up for our rights they will be taken. A right unexercised is a right lost. Unfortunately the sheeple in this country just dont really 'get it'

I understand the point of open carrying and standing up for your rights. I also understand the cop's point of view. How are they supposed to know the difference between a law-abiding, firearm carrying citizen, and a crazy person with a gun? Are they supposed to stand there and wait to see if they're going to shoot someone? They'd be accused of harassment. Are they supposed to assume that every person walking around with a gun is sane and law abiding?

I have mixed feelings about this whole thing.

I believe and want open carry rights and concealed rights.

However when all is said and done, I also believe that the LEO should have the ability without harassment to check someone's ID.

What if the person has a restraining order?  What if the person is an escaped convict, or an ex convict?

What if the person is on medical psych drugs?

What if the person is a known terrorist?


If you are clean, then you can carry on, have a nice day.

When guys like this do these types of things to prove a point, they are really pushing their luck. In the wrong neighborhood and depending on physical appearance and how one is dressed, the outcome can be completely different. Maybe his point would still be valid but he might be dead in the process. Police have shot and killed many people that they shouldn't have and none of them are coming back to life. Here is a recent case that the family was awarded $6.5M for police negligence. "Long Beach police officers opened fire on Douglass Zerby without any warning. Douglass Zerby was sitting on a balcony intoxicated and holding a water nozzle. Police say a 911 caller had led them to believe the metal object was a small handgun."

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=9054853

I have mixed feelings about this whole thing.

I believe and want open carry rights and concealed rights.

However when all is said and done, I also believe that the LEO should have the ability without harassment to check someone's ID.

What if the person has a restraining order?  What if the person is an escaped convict, or an ex convict?

What if the person is on medical psych drugs?

What if the person is a known terrorist?


If you are clean, then you can carry on, have a nice day.

I feel the same....In many Detroit neighborhoods in the evening police routinely stop people walking and ask what they're doing and often for ID, in an effort to deter crime. If one is a law abiding citizen, this is no big deal because it serves the better good IMO, but if one is a criminal, it may end up being a bad day for them.

"Man Legally Carrying Gun Robbed at Gunpoint"

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/95999354.html

Why all the apologist. Michigan has no stop and ID law, the Supreme Court has ruled on this matter, open carry is a right in Michigan and it is never ok to justify violating someone's rights because they "may" have something or be someone.

And yes, I am a LE in the greater Detroit area..... Do I know how bad it can be around here.

I understand the point of open carrying and standing up for your rights. I also understand the cop's point of view. How are they supposed to know the difference between a law-abiding, firearm carrying citizen, and a crazy person with a gun? Are they supposed to stand there and wait to see if they're going to shoot someone? They'd be accused of harassment. Are they supposed to assume that every person walking around with a gun is sane and law abiding?

It is a dangerous game just to get your 15 minutes of Youtube fame...

Why all the apologist. Michigan has no stop and ID law, the Supreme Court has ruled on this matter, open carry is a right in Michigan and it is never ok to justify violating someone's rights because they "may" have something or be someone.

And yes, I am a LE in the greater Detroit area..... Do I know how bad it can be around here.

Is this a recent decision? I was just there within the last six months and was stopped everyday while taking walks. Yes, I know exactly how bad it is there...born and raised there and father is retired Detroit LEO. Just curious if you don't mind the question...is Detroit where you were raised and your preferred choice to serve or a federal assignment?

Is this a recent decision? I was just there within the last six months and was stopped everyday while taking walks. Yes, I know exactly how bad it is there...born and raised there and father is retired Detroit LEO. Just curious if you don't mind the question...is Detroit where you were raised and your preferred choice to serve or a federal assignment?

No this is not a recent decision, open carry has been legal in Michigan since each Hawaiian Island was their own royal kingdom. The police just don't like it because their unions fought shall-issue tooth and nail and now they can't believe open carry is legal since people are not afraid to do so and record and report any intimidation (i.e. Port Huron in June of 2010).

Open carry became pretty big in Michigan because when the shall-issue law passed, they put places off limits; however, none of those places off limits apply to pistols carried openly.

The State Police put out MULTIPLE updates over the years regarding open carry and the latest known as State Police update 86.

Even if it was a recent decision, ignorance of the law is not an excuse and plenty of gun owners have had their lives ruined over not knowing all 20,000+ gun laws. The least the police could do is actually know and abide by the law that they are paid to enforce.

Michigan Open Carry has reached out to law enforcement agencies for years now and they all know. Especially this cop in this video, the town he is employed by had their city council chambers packed with people open carrying pistols a few years ago.

A lot of these guys complain that they record them, but the truth is that if cops actually followed the law and did what they are paid to do, then they wouldn't be recorded because they wouldn't be hassling and intimidating OC'ers.

People in Michigan do not cooperate with police on open carry because of years of bad faith efforts on numerous police departments. It's pretty discouraging when someone hands their ID to the officer to "cooperate" and a week later they receive a misdemeanor disorderly conduct court summons in the mail, (this actually happened).

There was a bill last year to repeal places off limits for concealed carry but the governor vetoed the bill, so not more people open carry in schools and other Pistol Free Zones (apply to concealed handguns only).

However when all is said and done, I also believe that the LEO should have the ability without harassment to check someone's ID.

This opens a whole 'nother can of worms. Are we all required to carry ID? Are we all required to have ID? etc...

It is a can of worms.

The open carry has a wife. She commits adultery. Open carry threatens with violence to kill. Has a restraining order against him.
Decides to act on his threat. Has no car, so he walks the 5 miles with his rifle and pistol on his side. 

If no ID is presented what can a LEO do?

With no ID the LEO CANNOT determine that he is breaking the law.

Ditto the ex convict who shows no ID... also on his way after finding out his wife had a child from someone else while he was away.


It only ends after the fact, when innocent is dead.

Can of worms or a man in a can?





 

However when all is said and done, I also believe that the LEO should have the ability without harassment to check someone's ID.

What if the person has a restraining order?  What if the person is an escaped convict, or an ex convict?

What if the person is on medical psych drugs?

What if the person is a known terrorist?

If you are clean, then you can carry on, have a nice day.

I agree with this. I would give the cop my ID as a common courtesy. No skin off my nose.
Who doesn't carry ID or can legally acquire a firearm with having any ID ?
If you carry a gun, you should be required to carry ID.
Just my opinion.

I agree with this. I would give the cop my ID as a common courtesy. No skin off my nose.
Who doesn't carry ID or can legally acquire a firearm with having any ID ?
If you carry a gun, you should be required to carry ID.
Just my opinion.

If you want to carry a gun. you have to carry (and present when asked) a valid, government-issued ID.

If you want to vote. you have to carry (and present when asked) a valid, government-issued ID.

If you want to express a political opinion. you have to carry (and present when asked) a valid, government-issued ID.

(repeat, lather, rinse, ...)

Substitute any right in the above statement, and you'll see how it becomes a debate about limiting a citizen's ability to exercise his rights.

I gather then,

that a small terrorist cell group could practice in the OPEN on your street corner with full weapons in plain view and not be questioned because they do not need to show ID (how else to know if they are on a watch list) and that they are exercising their full firearms rights.

How insane is that. 

If you want to carry a gun. you have to carry (and present when asked) a valid, government-issued ID.

roger that.  Open carry. I'd be happy to let them know who I am. Heck, I'm carrying a gun out in the open.

If you want to vote. you have to carry (and present when asked) a valid, government-issued ID.

roger that. Don't want people walking up to the voting booth picking a name off the list and voting 100 times fraudulently.

If you want to express a political opinion. you have to carry (and present when asked) a valid, government-issued ID.

(repeat, lather, rinse, ...)

Substitute any right in the above statement, and you'll see how it becomes a debate about limiting a citizen's ability to exercise his rights.

  Not sure I'm following this one. I have the right to free speech without ID.  Right to assemble, right to due process, right to not have unreasonable search and seizure, etc...

I gather then,

that a small terrorist cell group could practice in the OPEN on your street corner with full weapons in plain view and not be questioned because they do not need to show ID (how else to know if they are on a watch list) and that they are exercising their full firearms rights.

How insane is that.

No more insane than selling 3,500 high power firearms and other weapons to drug cartels through US taxpayer-funded "sting" operations, then losing track of them until they are used to kill civilians and border patrol on both sides of the Mexican border.

First, people can't shoot guns in residential areas, assuming you mean discharging firearms as "practice".

Secondly, if you as a resident see anything suspicious, you should contact LE and have them investigate.  Even without ID, LE can determine if there is suspicion enough to get a warrant to investigate and/or arrest anyone.

Third, there are terrorist cells operating in the US right now ... maybe on YOUR street corner, but behind closed doors, building bombs in their garage or basement.  That is a bigger threat to your life and safety than a group that's operating in plain view.

roger that.  Open carry. I'd be happy to let them know who I am. Heck, I'm carrying a gun out in the open.
roger that. Don't want people walking up to the voting booth picking a name off the list and voting 100 times fraudulently.

  Not sure I'm following this one. I have the right to free speech without ID.  Right to assemble, right to due process, right to not have unreasonable search and seizure, etc...

Every one of the rights I listed are protected under the Constitution in an Amendment.  If you are okay with forcing ID for exercising some rights, then is should be okay for requiring ID to exercise all rights.  That's why you are having a difficult time with it.  You believe all rights are NOT equal under the Constitution.  Some rights are absolute, while others require government controls and limits.

So you agree there should be no controls against fraudulent voting or stuffing the ballot box ?
Against armed criminal gang bangers walking the streets with their guns in full view ?

I believe in common sense.

And I believe we need to fight for our rights when the Government exceeds common sense.