2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: CyberNinja808 on June 02, 2020, 04:51:40 PM
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Department of parks and recreation is now using an online system to reserve time at the Kokohead shooting complex.
We are glad to have the range back open BUT.....
Here are our observations.
The system requires you to create an account to select a time. and date to shoot.
To book a slot you will need to provide medical information and emergency contact information.
Due to the time restrictions and social distancing requirements, it will (for the time being) be impossible to teach classes at the range.
You will not be able to book more than a one-time slot per day.
New rules in place: observed from video on the city website.
1)No parking on the grass - this limits the parking availability to approximately 16 vehicles.
2)Facemasks must be worn at all times, including shooting - this can pose a safety risk, mask hinders sightlines, and can become an entanglement risk.
3)Setup time is 15 minutes and shooting time is 1 hour, (we assume there is also a breakdown time). This means that each slot is reserved for 1 hour and 30 minutes.
4)The system appears to require you to include your address and phone number (shown on the receipt)
While we understand the system is new, they are calling it a PILOT system, which could mean that they intend to keep it in place a long term (forever). Just like the Police department's booking system, this will do nothing but hinder the ability of leag gun owners to acquire arms and train to use them in a safe manner.
The city post regarding the system can be found here : https://www.facebook.com/honolulu.parks/videos/569862310581495/
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isn't medical information confidential ?
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isn't medical information confidential ?
There's no legitimate reason to ask for any medical information. If there's an emergency, they aren't going to call your doctor or HMO. They will call 911. 911 will dispatch an ambulance, and you'll be taken to the closest emergency room no matter who your provider is.
I call BS on the medical info.
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no parking on the grass?
that's where everybody parks
WTF!!!!!!!! :grrr: :grrr: :grrr:
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you know what?
F them!!! i'm parking on the grass
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Department of parks and recreation is now using an online system to reserve time at the Kokohead shooting complex.
We are glad to have the range back open BUT.....
Here are our observations.
The system requires you to create an account to select a time. and date to shoot.
To book a slot you will need to provide medical information and emergency contact information.
Due to the time restrictions and social distancing requirements, it will (for the time being) be impossible to teach classes at the range.
You will not be able to book more than a one-time slot per day.
New rules in place: observed from video on the city website.
1)No parking on the grass - this limits the parking availability to approximately 16 vehicles.
2)Facemasks must be worn at all times, including shooting - this can pose a safety risk, mask hinders sightlines, and can become an entanglement risk.
3)Setup time is 15 minutes and shooting time is 1 hour, (we assume there is also a breakdown time). This means that each slot is reserved for 1 hour and 30 minutes.
4)The system appears to require you to include your address and phone number (shown on the receipt)
While we understand the system is new, they are calling it a PILOT system, which could mean that they intend to keep it in place a long term (forever). Just like the Police department's booking system, this will do nothing but hinder the ability of leag gun owners to acquire arms and train to use them in a safe manner.
The city post regarding the system can be found here : https://www.facebook.com/honolulu.parks/videos/569862310581495/
Completely unacceptable, because like the HPD system, you can't get an appointment until August. Forwarded to FPC.
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It is emergency contact number
and contact person.
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It is emergency contact number
and contact person.
I don't see lifeguards asking people at Ala Moana or Magic Island asking park goers for their emergency contact info. (Ok maybe the hot girls, but that's different)
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Well it is what it is dont think you will be able to complete form
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It is emergency contact number
and contact person.
Emergency Contact #: 911.
Emergency Contact Person: 911 Operator.
If they can't handle my emergency, I don't know what anyone else will do for me.
I have a feeling this is a ploy to have someone take possession of any firearms and range gear if you're incapacitated. That creates all kinds of legal issues in and of itself.
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looks like 1 person per bench too
what if you teaching someone to shoot for the 1st time? I guess no can
how you supposed to help someone zero their optic if they don't know how? I guess no can
letting 1st timers go by themselves. this could be dangerous
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person to call in case of emergency: "Yo mama!"
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they should make all park users of any park anywhere do the same
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You do the same for golf
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I don't play golf
golf is not a sport
its a bunch of guys hiding from their wives, its an excuse to not do house chores and drinking beer
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every user of ala moana park, Kapiolani park, ehukai beach park, Waimea bay park, they should all have to register just like us
they are all city parks
that's discrimination
maybe we should protest and loot too.
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Mask can be removed while shooting.
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every user of ala moana park, Kapiolani park, ehukai beach park, Waimea bay park, they should all have to register just like us
they are all city parks
that's discrimination
maybe we should protest and loot too.
Hope you enjoy
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I got $5 that the site crashes. . .
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Emergency Contact #: 911.
Emergency Contact Person: 911 Operator.
If they can't handle my emergency, I don't know what anyone else will do for me.
I have a feeling this is a ploy to have someone take possession of any firearms and range gear if you're incapacitated. That creates all kinds of legal issues in and of itself.
Firearms turned into HPD.
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Firearms turned into HPD.
Right. And then you have to go through the permit and background check process to get them back.
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Here's the TOS that you have to agree to in order to access the reg system. You have to use Google Chrome btw - the site won't display correctly on Safari or FireFox, I tried (I didn't try IE). It's a one-stop-shop for every city parks reservation system - everything from keiki soccer practice at Kapiolani park to organized adult athletic leagues. Most of if it is pretty standard TOS verbiage. I'm not an attorney, but I highlighted the one line that would effectively let them cut you off from exercising your 2a rights thereby forcing you to join a private club.
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Right. And then you have to go through the permit and background check process to get them back.
So if someone had a medical episode at the park and was taken away in an ambulance, they'd have to go and reapply for a permit to get their firearms back? Even if they had a valid long gun permit?
**EDIT: July 28th would be the soonest you could apply to get your firearms back if you left 4 or more of them at the range. Same if you had to leave a couple of long guns.
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If gun is registered to him no problem
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Department of parks and recreation is now using an online system to reserve time at the Kokohead shooting complex.
We are glad to have the range back open BUT.....
Here are our observations.
The system requires you to create an account to select a time. and date to shoot.
To book a slot you will need to provide medical information and emergency contact information.
Due to the time restrictions and social distancing requirements, it will (for the time being) be impossible to teach classes at the range.
You will not be able to book more than a one-time slot per day.
New rules in place: observed from video on the city website.
1)No parking on the grass - this limits the parking availability to approximately 16 vehicles.
2)Facemasks must be worn at all times, including shooting - this can pose a safety risk, mask hinders sightlines, and can become an entanglement risk.
3)Setup time is 15 minutes and shooting time is 1 hour, (we assume there is also a breakdown time). This means that each slot is reserved for 1 hour and 30 minutes.
4)The system appears to require you to include your address and phone number (shown on the receipt)
While we understand the system is new, they are calling it a PILOT system, which could mean that they intend to keep it in place a long term (forever). Just like the Police department's booking system, this will do nothing but hinder the ability of leag gun owners to acquire arms and train to use them in a safe manner.
The city post regarding the system can be found here : https://www.facebook.com/honolulu.parks/videos/569862310581495/
Thank you for the info. :shaka:
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I don't play golf
golf is not a sport
its a bunch of guys hiding from their wives, its an excuse to not do house chores and drinking beer
i'm pretty sure lots of guys at the range are doing the same thing...
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i'm pretty sure lots of guys at the range are doing the same thing...
Not me my wife begs me to go to the range :rofl:
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Not me my wife begs me to go to the range :rofl:
She’s a keeper!
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Think I’m gonna wait till Schofield opens up... I live about 5 miles away, better range, longer distances so screw KHSC and C&C...oh yea, Caldwell too!
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https://hawaiinews.online/koko-head-shooting-complex-launches-new-online-reservations-system/
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what a novel way to track law abiding gun owners
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Think I’m gonna wait till Schofield opens up... I live about 5 miles away, better range, longer distances so screw KHSC and C&C...oh yea, Caldwell too!
Same here.. looks like in about 2 weeks according which what I’ve read in the announcement page. Hopefully cr2,kr3, and kr4 will open also. I’m gonna get ready,prep and reload some ammo.
I can’t believe what we have to do at khsc to shoot. The public can pack the beaches, make big bonfires, no social distancing, stay all day, park anywhere? Talk about ridickuls..
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The alternative to the appointment system is to keep the existing waiting list system. Without time limits combined with the heavy summer traffic and pent up demand, you could be waiting hours to get a lane.
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The alternative to the appointment system is to keep the existing waiting list system. Without time limits combined with the heavy summer traffic and pent up demand, you could be waiting hours to get a lane.
Yes, but the choice to wait is ours, rather than an arbitrary 1-hour time limit per shooter/bench position.
In other words, if the wait is too long, we can come back another day. But, if the amount of time is limited to 60 minutes, it's not worth the time to prepare, load up, drive from Central or West Oahu, then the reverse afterward.
Hard to justify hours of effort and driving for one hour of shooting.
Then there's the "better get there really early in case traffic is bad, or you'll lose your reservation" factor.
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Local Agency
Honolulu Department of Parks and Recreation
Public Information Officer Nathan Serota • 18 hr ago
New online system, PROS, to assist with shooting complex reservations. In order to accommodate the demand for limited capacity facilities amidst physical distancing guidelines, the Honolulu Department of Parks and Recreation (DPR) and Department of Information Technology (DIT) are proud to unveil a new online reservation system for DPR activities and facilities.
Parks and Recreation Online System (PROS), a custom DIT-developed software, will begin its pilot phase by allowing members of the public to reserve shooting lanes for the Koko Head Shooting Complex (KHSC) online for free.
Beginning June 3 at 12 noon Hawai‘i time, the public can reserve one-hour time slots for either the pistol or rifle ranges of KHSC by visiting the PROS website at https://pros.hnl.info (the link will not be valid until the above mentioned time and date). Only one time slot can be reserved per person per day for either of the ranges.
The KHSC pistol and rifle ranges will resume their regular open hours of 12 p.m. to 4 p.m. Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. Saturday and Sundays, beginning on Friday, June 5. The archery range will also reflect this schedule. Gated access from Kalaniana‘ole Highway into KHSC is scheduled to be opened a half hour before and a half hour after these hours of operation.
Reservations are not needed for the archery range at Koko Head or at the other City archery ranges. Archery ranges will return to regular first-come-first-served functions, with physical distancing and face mask guidelines.
The other four firearm shooting ranges at KHSC (skeet, trap, silhouette, and action pistol) are operated by third-party gun clubs and will remain closed to the public at this time.
Following this initial reopening weekend, online pistol and rifle range reservations at KHSC will begin on Wednesdays at 8 a.m.
An instructional video is available online to help introduce the public to the PROS software. That video can be viewed by using this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18XXX7S2-ew&feature=youtu.be . We encourage the public to set-up an HNL.Info account prior to the opening of the new registration software. Beginning on June 3 at 12 noon, you may use that account to create a PROS profile before making reservations for the shooting complex.
In addition, DPR has launched a brand new website dedicated to the Koko Head Shooting Complex with the most up-to-date information about KHSC, its rules, procedures, and how to safely enjoy O‘ahu’s only public shooting range. You can access that website by visiting: bit.ly/KokoHeadRange
Public comment and conversations from these messages are not regularly monitored. To express additional concerns or questions pertaining to this announcement, or other Honolulu Department of Parks and Recreation (DPR) matters, please email parks@honolulu.gov
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what a novel way to track law abiding gun owners
I'm thinking the same thing. I wish they would extend the shooting time. Coming from central Oahu to shoot only for an hour is disheartening.
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Yes, but the choice to wait is ours, rather than an arbitrary 1-hour time limit per shooter/bench position.
In other words, if the wait is too long, we can come back another day. But, if the amount of time is limited to 60 minutes, it's not worth the time to prepare, load up, drive from Central or West Oahu, then the reverse afterward.
Hard to justify hours of effort and driving for one hour of shooting.
Then there's the "better get there really early in case traffic is bad, or you'll lose your reservation" factor.
The social distancing requirements cut the range capacity by a large amount. The pistol side would likely be reduced to 1/3rd to half from 36 shooters to 12 or 18 maximum. Rifle side is likely down to 2/3rds to half depending how it's configured. The summer traffic, 3 month range closure, large amount of gun sales, and closing of the silhouette range and bays would double the normal demand for range usage. Some people stay at the range for half a day. Under the old system half of the people that want to shoot would not be able to at all and the wait times would be 2 to 4 hours.
I'm sure there will be initial problems with the new system and hope they fix them quickly and the appointment system is a temporary thing. To me the appointment system and 1 hour limit is the best that can be done with the situation presented. The real problems are the statewide slow re-opening and social distancing measures.
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I know someone that works in the parks division
Not an official statement, just answering a friends question in regards to thee numerical questions
This is if you have any allergies, medical limitations, etc.
This program will eventually be a singular hub got all parks and recreation registration.
For example kids programs. So there is a tan to provide medical information that is very limited that is very limited to what an on- sure staff may need to provide first aid, or to EMA
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Range capacity for both rifle and pistol will currently be held to 8 shooting positions + 2 RSO =10 per 1 hr limit. This is in line with
CDC and State dept. of Health guideline for group activity limit of 10
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Range capacity for both rifle and pistol will currently be held to 8 shooting positions per 1 hr limit. This is in line with
CDC and State dept. of Health guideline for group activity limit of 10
Well now, guess my generous estimations on range capacity limits were wildly optimistic. If anyone has contact with Mike, pls ask him if he has contingency plans for appointment no shows.
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is this a group activity?
i'm going there by myself. I have a group of 1
I believe it is 10 people per 300 square feet. (this might be for restaurants, correct me if i'm wrong)
if you measure from the front of the paved area at the bench to the rear pavement, its at least 10 feet. lateral measurement 4 benches around 30 feet. equals 300 square feet. 10 people per 4 benches is within CDC guidelines. even 1 per bench would be within guidelines.
i hope they can revise the system soon
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you can't bring your friend or family that doesn't have any guns or permit to shoot
you can't give them your gun and say "go shoot by yourself"
cant do that right now.
that sucks!
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is this a group activity?
i'm going there by myself. I have a group of 1
I believe it is 10 people per 300 square feet. (this might be for restaurants, correct me if i'm wrong)
if you measure from the front of the paved area at the bench to the rear pavement, its at least 10 feet. lateral measurement 4 benches around 30 feet. equals 300 square feet. 10 people per 4 benches is within CDC guidelines. even 1 per bench would be within guidelines.
i hope they can revise the system soon
Thanks for the info on the CDC. I was wonder why so much benches closed when each are more than 6 feet apart. Now it makes sense.
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Someone needs to monitor the number of no-shows to see if (when) the anti-gun nuts start clogging the reservation system with bogus accounts. I just registered at the pros.hnl.info site, and all it takes is a name, email address and password. Any free email address you can access, so you can activate the account, works.
BTW, the activation email went straight to my spam folder, so watch for that.
Here are the rules posted on the sign up form...
A face covering must be worn upon entering and during your shooting time.
Stay at least six (6) feet from other people. Do not gather in groups.
No food or drinks allowed on shooting range.
All vehicles must park in parking lot. No parking on grass.
There will be a 15 minute set-up before shooting time. Shooting time will be for (1) one hour. All shooters must vacate the facility after shooting time has expired.
There are only 7 spaces available to sign up for each hour on the pistol range.
There are only 7 spaces available to sign up for each hour on the rifle range.
If there's a 15 minute setup before your shoot time, they will have to put you in a vacant spot while everyone signed up for the hour before yours is still shooting. That means as many as 14 shooters will be at benches for the 15 minutes prior to the start of each hour.
When the no-shows start, and the email addresses look like "MDA808_01234@gmail.com", they'll soon figure out what we all knew in advance.
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is this a group activity?
i'm going there by myself. I have a group of 1
I believe it is 10 people per 300 square feet. (this might be for restaurants, correct me if i'm wrong)
if you measure from the front of the paved area at the bench to the rear pavement, its at least 10 feet. lateral measurement 4 benches around 30 feet. equals 300 square feet. 10 people per 4 benches is within CDC guidelines. even 1 per bench would be within guidelines.
i hope they can revise the system soon
My groups are Sub Moa 😂🤣😅 (I wish)
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My groups are Sub Moa 😂🤣😅 (I wish)
Moa -- is that a Hawaiian term? :shaka: :rofl:
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trying now and the site isnt working
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trying now and the site isnt working
Seems to be working fine.
Did you create an account yet? Click on "Login" at the top/right, and then at the bottom click "Sign Up."
Or just click the giant banner that says "Click here to get Started." :rofl:
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Actually about the CDC guidlines, can't we count in front the bench as part of the square footage? You know, the 120 yards? So each bench will be 10x360 or 3600sq ft.
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finally able to get through. appointments are only 2 weeks out. got 3 reserved for the rifle side
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i got mine! :geekdanc:
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I got my appointments in and it's FREE!!!!
Found a big problem with the appointment system, there is no option to cancel online. I guess you have to call them to cancel.
(https://i.imgur.com/iPgrjEu.jpg)
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I got my appointments in and it's FREE!!!!
Found a big problem with the appointment system, there is no option to cancel online. I guess you have to call them to cancel.
(https://i.imgur.com/iPgrjEu.jpg)
that's all? j/k at least we are back shooting again
but hope can revise system soon
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spots are filling up fast
i wonder when it will open up for the next 2 weeks, or the next week
will it just open spots every 2 weeks, or every day 2 weeks in advance or what?
do we have to watch it every day or just on a certain day
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it did work better on google chrome
some stuff didn't work on my desk top bc i don't have chrome on that
kind of not very user friendly on my phone either, but i made it work
who the hell makes an app only for google chrome???
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spots are filling up fast
i wonder when it will open up for the next 2 weeks, or the next week
will it just open spots every 2 weeks, or every day 2 weeks in advance or what?
do we have to watch it every day or just on a certain day
"Following this initial period, reservations will begin on Wednesdays at 8 a.m. for the following week. So next Wednesday, June 10 you can begin reserving for your shooting times for the week beginning on Wednesday, June 17."
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it did work better on google chrome
some stuff didn't work on my desk top bc i don't have chrome on that
kind of not very user friendly on my phone either, but i made it work
who the hell makes an app only for google chrome???
I used firefox on the windows desktop. Worked fine.
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it did work better on google chrome
some stuff didn't work on my desk top bc i don't have chrome on that
kind of not very user friendly on my phone either, but i made it work
who the hell makes an app only for google chrome???
Sub-standard programmers who are probably extremely underpaid, Because Hawaii doesn't think investing in software is worth anything until stuff blows up in their face...
Being a coder here sucks, we all work for mainland companies because of this state's ignorance to technology.
End rant.
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Sub-standard programmers who are probably extremely underpaid, Because Hawaii doesn't think investing in software is worth anything until stuff blows up in their face...
Being a coder here sucks, we all work for mainland companies because of this state's ignorance to technology.
End rant.
I went to college with the State CIO early on in Ige's first term. Not surprised at the state of IT for the State of Hawaii.
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I should be able to load all my mags to full capacity you know since I now only have an hour to shoot
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this online res is BS next thing you know they'll be limiting shooting one caliber per minute...I say again one clip per caliber in no more than 30 magazines.
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"Following this initial period, reservations will begin on Wednesdays at 8 a.m. for the following week. So next Wednesday, June 10 you can begin reserving for your shooting times for the week beginning on Wednesday, June 17."
I used firefox on the windows desktop. Worked fine.
thanks :shaka:
on my phone, i couldn't expand the window to see everything
maybe my home laptop will work better, i'm doing this at work and work computer is kind of limited
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How many people can I add to the reservation? Want to bring some friends. Or is that not allowed because “social distancing”
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How many people can I add to the reservation? Want to bring some friends. Or is that not allowed because “social distancing”
not allowed
can only make reservations for yourself. so far that i see
you can add family members in your profile like a child or dependent, but i don't think you can add them on to the appointment reservations
i wish that we can do that bc i often bring my friend or a family member that doesn't normally go shooting. but now no can :'( :'( :'(
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Shit, how am I supposed to spot for myself?
What a joke, hard pass...
not allowed
can only make reservations for yourself. so far that i see
you can add family members in your profile like a child or dependent, but i don't think you can add them on to the appointment reservations
i wish that we can do that bc i often bring my friend or a family member that doesn't normally go shooting. but now no can :'( :'( :'(
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I went to college with the State CIO early on in Ige's first term. Not surprised at the state of IT for the State of Hawaii.
Just look at the State UI system. It’s still DOS - gotta do the C: System still won’t allow people to get their handgun aff done at the range. :grrr: That’s something that shouldn’t be overlooked. Additionally all the other facilities at the range are shut down - like trap, skeet, and metallic. I can see one of our legislators figuring - Well since you guys don’t use the rest of the range, you don’t need it. Let’s close it permanently and save money.
It would be easy to socially distance yourself when shooting in a squad for skeet. As for trap - a modified trimmed down squad of 3 vs. 5 should allow for enough space. Metallic could do every other stall. If you follow the UsPSA hashtag on IG, you see matches done with social distancing between shooters and with masks so.....🤷🏻♂️
I’m glad guys were able to get on and get slots, but I’m still emailing the mayor to open up the rest of KHSC too.
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i go to the silhouette side a lot too. i just like plinking sometimes. shoot off a few hundred rounds of 22 or 44 or 357
i wish they open that soon
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If I’m taking friends or just casual shooting (not checking zero or other stuff where I want to shoot on paper), I prefer shooting on the silhouette side. More relaxed and fun shooting steel.
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Agreed, hopefully they open that side up to accommodate more people.
If I’m taking friends or just casual shooting (not checking zero or other stuff where I want to shoot on paper), I prefer shooting on the silhouette side. More relaxed and fun shooting steel.
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If I’m taking friends or just casual shooting (not checking zero or other stuff where I want to shoot on paper), I prefer shooting on the silhouette side. More relaxed and fun shooting steel.
Saturday i'm bringing my own steel target :geekdanc:
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Just look at the State UI system. It’s still DOS - gotta do the C: System still won’t allow people to get their handgun aff done at the range. :grrr: That’s something that shouldn’t be overlooked. Additionally all the other facilities at the range are shut down - like trap, skeet, and metallic. I can see one of our legislators figuring - Well since you guys don’t use the rest of the range, you don’t need it. Let’s close it permanently and save money.
It would be easy to socially distance yourself when shooting in a squad for skeet. As for trap - a modified trimmed down squad of 3 vs. 5 should allow for enough space. Metallic could do every other stall. If you follow the UsPSA hashtag on IG, you see matches done with social distancing between shooters and with masks so.....🤷🏻♂️
I’m glad guys were able to get on and get slots, but I’m still emailing the mayor to open up the rest of KHSC too.
I usually shoot trap at the 20 yard station, I will go to 25
if it is a good day, but it really knocks my scores down.
Plenty of "social" distance.
I only shoot full choke as
that is what I use when hunting.
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Wait listed for this Sunday, for rifle and Pistol, got a pistol slot for the 14th.
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I usually shoot trap at the 20 yard station, I will go to 25
if it is a good day, but it really knocks my scores down.
Plenty of "social" distance.
I only shoot full choke as
that is what I use when hunting.
That’s pretty normal when you’re at the 25. I was thinking about shooters at the 16.
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I wonder how long until the anti's start filling up the time slots with fake reservations so that no one can get in.
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this online res is BS next thing you know they'll be limiting shooting one caliber per minute...I say again one clip per caliber in no more than 30 magazines.
what the hell does this mean? makes no sense at all ??? :grrr: ???
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I should be able to load all my mags to full capacity you know since I now only have an hour to shoot
They're going to love it when I pull out 10 pistols and 10 mags each from my big-ass range bag. :thumbsup:
That's 100 mags & 500 rds without having to stop to reload.
I might use my shot timer in case they give me any humbug about rapid fire. :wacko:
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I wonder how long until the anti's start filling up the time slots with fake reservations so that no one can get in.
They’re too busy looting right now....
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Hi I am new to the forums and sport. I am having trouble reserving a time. I have filled out all my information but it still does not let me select a time and date to reserve for any part of the range. Any help would be appreciated.
Edit- Nevermind, I figured it out, I was suppose to be in the activities tab to register.
Thanks,
Sean
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I wonder how long until the anti's start filling up the time slots with fake reservations so that no one can get in.
I knew I shouldn't have written a letter in support of an indoor range in Waipahu...
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So we can't bring a friend but we can share a bay with a family member? My child wants to go shooting again.
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Calabash family?
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I got my appointments in and it's FREE!!!!
Found a big problem with the appointment system, there is no option to cancel online. I guess you have to call them to cancel.
(https://i.imgur.com/iPgrjEu.jpg)
A few minutes ago there were a couple rifle spots left. Now, there are ZERO rifle spots left. Zippz, i hope you plan on shooting every minute you're there. i had a friend that was in the process of sorting through the available days, but it went to zero before she could complete her checkout.
I was only able to get one time slot at 8am on a weekday
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This is nuts. I can already picture the complaints of the wait list for a KHSC bench taking longer than the DMV wait list.
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What wait list?
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This is going to be crazy. I can see people taking advantage reserving more then they need and then not showing up to them all. I can see the time slots all booked up weeks in advance, just like the gun registration is already 9 weeks booked ahead of time.
This will get crazy out of hand.
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Calabash family?
So what if I have two wives, 4 children, and a "brother" who looks nothing like me, they are all family ;D
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A few minutes ago there were a couple rifle spots left. Now, there are ZERO rifle spots left. Zippz, i hope you plan on shooting every minute you're there. i had a friend that was in the process of sorting through the available days, but it went to zero before she could complete her checkout.
I was only able to get one time slot at 8am on a weekday
They're open weekdays at 8am???? ??? ???
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Didnt get any slots. Been waiting to take my kids shooting now they are of age.Did anyone notice only ages 9-100 can shoot, so anyone over 100 cant participate?
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They're open weekdays at 8am???? ??? ???
Holiday hours
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Can anyone confirm if I can bring my wife to shoot with me? Same household so it follows the requirements that other establishments require. Only available spot was on her birthday so I’m using it as an excuse to shoot ahahahah
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What wait list?
1 hour appointments that are weeks or months away = wait list.
Kind of like DMV. Leave it to the city to get everyone in a long wait list / queue.
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1 hour appointments that are weeks or months away = wait list.
Kind of like DMV. Leave it to the city to get everyone in a long wait list / queue.
This is your life on Socialism ....
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Can anyone confirm if I can bring my wife to shoot with me? Same household so it follows the requirements that other establishments require. Only available spot was on her birthday so I’m using it as an excuse to shoot ahahahah
I dont see any option to add anyone to the online reservation
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I dont see any option to add anyone to the online reservation
Here’s the instructions on how to add someone. You have to have sit through a bit before it explains how -
https://www.facebook.com/1175789935775411/posts/3134511016569950/?vh=e&d=n (https://www.facebook.com/1175789935775411/posts/3134511016569950/?vh=e&d=n)
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This entire process is a complete joke..... back to the hills! :D
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https://youtu.be/18XXX7S2-ew
I dont have other people on my profile so I cant attempt this
Can you have more than 1 person on your reservation?
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Holiday hours
Forgot about that. Thanks.
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To stop fake reservations and no-shows, the programmers should have added some fields to take credit card information. If someone doesn't show up, then they are charged a fee, say $10 or so. This can help discourage the antis making fake reservations to block the legitimate shooters from attending. It also encourages us to plan better in make reservations. It's not perfect but just a suggested safeguard to keep people honest.
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To stop fake reservations and no-shows, the programmers should have added some fields to take credit card information. If someone doesn't show up, then they are charged a fee, say $10 or so. This can help discourage the antis making fake reservations to block the legitimate shooters from attending. It also encourages us to plan better in make reservations. It's not perfect but just a suggested safeguard to keep people honest.
...
Give the city my credit card info?
Hmmm, let's think about that. :rofl:
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To stop fake reservations and no-shows, the programmers should have added some fields to take credit card information. If someone doesn't show up, then they are charged a fee, say $10 or so. This can help discourage the antis making fake reservations to block the legitimate shooters from attending. It also encourages us to plan better in make reservations. It's not perfect but just a suggested safeguard to keep people honest.
I actually hope that C&C Honolulu does this. Require payment from Gov't to exercise a right. . . :hmm:
To clarify, I am not for a fee to hold. While I do see the logic of trying to prevent shenanigans, I was more thinking of rope a dope for C&C "leadership". . .
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To stop fake reservations and no-shows, the programmers should have added some fields to take credit card information. If someone doesn't show up, then they are charged a fee, say $10 or so. This can help discourage the antis making fake reservations to block the legitimate shooters from attending. It also encourages us to plan better in make reservations. It's not perfect but just a suggested safeguard to keep people honest.
Another suggestion would be that since shooters are already registered as firearms owners, they can check their fricken data base and match it up to the person registering for a time slot.
Make it so only registered firearms owners can sign up for a slot. This will prevent people like the anti-2a from reserving time slots claiming they will use a friends or family members firearm.
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Make it so only registered firearms owners can sign up for a slot. This will prevent people like the anti-2a from reserving time slots claiming they will use a friends or family members firearm.
So this process would further enforce registration. The state tried to pass a simular law this session where unless you own that particular caliber of firearm, you cannot buy the ammo.
What is someone knows how to shoot, but wants to try their friends rifle or shotgun before buying one?
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So this process would further enforce registration. The state tried to pass a simular law this session where unless you own that particular caliber of firearm, you cannot buy the ammo.
What IS someone knows how to shoot, but wants to try their friends rifle or shotgun before buying one?
"To be, or not to be". . .
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Another suggestion would be that since shooters are already registered as firearms owners, they can check their fricken data base and match it up to the person registering for a time slot.
Make it so only registered firearms owners can sign up for a slot. This will prevent people like the anti-2a from reserving time slots claiming they will use a friends or family members firearm.
Hmmmm...HPD collaborates with Parks and Rec on registered gun owners? What's wrong with that? ::) ::) ::)
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On a side note, I spoke to a golfer. To sign up for a C&C course, it starts at 6:30am the week before. They do not have an online system. It's a telephone robot system. You have to enter your county golfers ID number or phone number to sign up for a spot for 4. The problem is there is no enforcement, so if only 2 show up, then the other 2 slots are wasted. This golfer sees many groups of less than 4. They probably don't want a stranger to be placed in their group thats why.
And at 6:30am, everyone's calling. So it's like how HPD was doing reservations early on via phone. You have to keep trying until you get through. Once he called at 6:45am and there were no tee times for the day he wanted. I asked why not an online system, he said because many golfers are already at the course for their early morning tee time. So to have to stay home and use the computer at 6:30am sucks. And many old timers don't have smart phones either. There also is no waiting list ether. So if someone does cancel, you have to just be calling at the right time to get that open slot.
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"To be, or not to be". . .
No focus
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The PROS system isn't so intrusive to me---if you're in rapback you have more serious concerns to worry about.
I don't have dependents so IDK if they can go shooting with you or not. I know you can add your dependents to your account/profile. My GUESS is that KHSC will be making up a lot of stuff (rulings) as the situations occur. This can work in your favor or against so you'll have to wait and see what happens the first couple of weeks.
If you really don't like the system, then put up your CC and pay through the nose at the indoor ranges. IIRC, you'll still have to provide ID at the indoor range and/or sign in (unless you are a well-established customer); in either case there'll be a paper trail on you. If "they" look hard enough "they'll" find you in any case (whatever that case might be). Bust out your tinfoil hat and BOHICA. :o :o :o
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https://youtu.be/18XXX7S2-ew
I dont have other people on my profile so I cant attempt this
Can you have more than 1 person on your reservation?
I'll have to try and sign up another person on my reservation for the next round since nobody has tried yet
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I'll have to try and sign up another person on my reservation for the next round since nobody has tried yet
I don't know for sure but if that other person is an adult I think they would have to sign up on their own, using their own account. How you would coordinate that with your shooting buddy is daunting--you may both have to be online at the same time (probably in the same room/locale) and both book the slot simultaneously. When I made my reservations you could see how many reservations were available for each slot so at least you would know if the 2 of you could sign up.
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Talked to the rangemaster today.
You can help a household member shoot at the table and take turns shooting.
There is a waitlist option on the appointment website and they'll take you if there is a no show at that time.
Call the range to cancel your appointment, you cannot do it online.
They are screening the list if people sign up for more than 1 hour per range per day.
He's aware of the problems, range limitations, contact info concerns, etc. but those are decided at higher levels.
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Talked to the rangemaster today.
You can help a household member shoot at the table and take turns shooting.
There is a waitlist option on the appointment website and they'll take you if there is a no show at that time.
Call the range to cancel your appointment, you cannot do it online.
They are screening the list if people sign up for more than 1 hour per range per day.
He's aware of the problems, range limitations, contact info concerns, etc. but those are decided at higher levels.
I'm pretty sure they aren't too thrilled with all these changes either. It's not like they don't have enough to worry about.
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If you really don't like the system, then put up your CC and pay through the nose at the indoor ranges.
A US citizen should NOT have to pay in order to exercise their 2nd amendment right, especially for those who can not afford to pay to shoot at an indoor range. HI unemployment is at 33% right now, and probably higher since that number may not include individuals who gave up looking for work prior to the mass layoffs from the visitor sector. I'm positive that a number of our own forum members have been negatively impacted, and I wouldn't put it on them to have to make that choice. The point that has escaped many is that the new rules effectively prohibit ANYONE from fulfilling the range safety portion as required by the state from obtaining the required handgun safety affidavit. As you pointed out the alternative would be to obtain their affidavit through one of the private ranges, but that's an option for those that can afford to pay "through the nose" as you pointed out. Your ability to defend yourself and your loved ones should not be limited to those that are financially able to go to a private range.
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My comment had nothing to do with the handgun safety affidavit, but that is a good point you bring up. However, the initial investment in learning how to shoot is pretty steep so I doubt that someone on unemployment now would be looking to purchase a handgun. IIRC there's no affidavit requirement for a rifle/shotgun permit; still, the initial investment can be substantial especially for those without an income right now.
I don't have access to a private outdoor range, nor do I want to spend the kind of $$$ it takes to shoot at an indoor range so I'm giving the system a try. I'm not going to whine about, moan over or bash something I haven't even tried out yet. Since I want to get in some trigger time at koko head, I'll do what's required.
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A US citizen should NOT have to pay in order to exercise their 2nd amendment right, especially for those who can not afford to pay to shoot at an indoor range. HI unemployment is at 33% right now, and probably higher since that number may not include individuals who gave up looking for work prior to the mass layoffs from the visitor sector. I'm positive that a number of our own forum members have been negatively impacted, and I wouldn't put it on them to have to make that choice. The point that has escaped many is that the new rules effectively prohibit ANYONE from fulfilling the range safety portion as required by the state from obtaining the required handgun safety affidavit. As you pointed out the alternative would be to obtain their affidavit through one of the private ranges, but that's an option for those that can afford to pay "through the nose" as you pointed out. Your ability to defend yourself and your loved ones should not be limited to those that are financially able to go to a private range.
#1 -- the State already forces us to pay for the right to own a firearm, because we are required to pay for fingerprinting and the mythical RAPBACK enrollment.
#2 - If you want a handgun, you have the free option of taking the Hunter's Ed course. I don't think it's an effective replacement for the handgun safety course -- different requirements such as no live fire -- but it satisfies the state.
#3 - No safety course required to own a rifle or shotgun.
Having said that, a range fee would be a recurring expense that could add up quickly for some. What I most dislike about the whole thing is that they know the range is not in a convenient location for many of us. To limit us to a single hour per side, especially if we're with a spouse, child or friend who doesn't have their own or the same guns as you, it just screws up the entire experience to where many will say it's just not worth the time and effort for an hour. Not everyone will go to both ranges because they don't own a long gun or need to shoot one every trip. (Maybe this will entice people to buy a long gun or handgun if they only have one or the other, just to make a range trip 2 hours long?)
I'll be interested to know if they are adjusting their cease fire schedules. Used to be 5-10 minutes cease fire after every 20 minutes of shooting. No matter whether they call cease fire just before or just after the top of the hour, either the people about to leave, or those just arriving will, get screwed out of trigger time for a target change. It's inevitable because time doesn't stand still for stupid rules.
Before, they called cease fire every 20 minutes to allow arrivals to put up their targets and those leaving to retrieve theirs. Since the window for arrivals and departures are now fixed to once per hour, are they going to stop the other 2 cease fires?
If they stop the cease fires after the start of the hour until just before the next hour, that implies late arrivals won't be allowed to shoot in their reserved time slot. Chances are, that slot will be taken by a walk-in anyway. That means you waste even more time arriving early so you don't miss your reservation. Before, you get there when you get there and wait for the next cease fire.
If you're on the pistol range, and it's close to the end of your time, will they call a cease fire during the incoming shooters' "setup 15 minute window", thereby taking 25% of your trigger time? Is that 15 minutes coordinated between the pistol and rifle sides? Is that sufficient time to take ALL YOUR GEAR FOR BOTH RANGES to the other range, take down one target and set up another? I usually have to stop by the vehicle to swap out target frames and ammo cans. Too much to carry all at one time.
Such a cluster....
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They should do this for dog parks as well. 1 dog per person for 1 hours. How about beaches? 1 hour per person, sign up online.
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They should do this for dog parks as well. 1 dog per person for 1 hours. How about beaches? 1 hour per person, sign up online.
No parking outside of a marked stall....
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Your ability to defend yourself and your loved ones should not be limited to those that are financially able to go to a private range.
With the exception of the State Hunter Safety course I don't know of any Firearms Safety course that meets the State's requirements and is free of charge. Owning a firearm costs money, period. EVERYTHING has a cost, period.
If "your ability to defend yourself and your loved ones" is your main priority then you must find your way to make it happen.
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With the exception of the State Hunter Safety course I don't know of any Firearms Safety course that meets the State's requirements and is free of charge. Owning a firearm costs money, period. EVERYTHING has a cost, period.
If "your ability to defend yourself and your loved ones" is your main priority then you must find your way to make it happen.
My response to that is, the people most likely to need a firearm for self defense don't live in the nicest part of town. Hence, they have a hard time affording a decent firearm, practice ammo, defensive ammo, targets, hearing protection, eye protection, a proper storage container (if they have kids or are at high risk of burglary), and the fingerprinting/enrollment fees. If they are working multiple jobs, they might not be able to afford the time off to even go through the permit/training/registration process.
Those people will be choosing the cheapest firearm (not always the most reliable or easiest to use), cheapest defensive ammo, and never make it to a range to test the gun, let alone practice enough to be proficient.
When the state tries to make ANYTHING more expensive for the public, especially something that's life-or-death, it winds up hurting the poorest among us the most.
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With the exception of the State Hunter Safety course I don't know of any Firearms Safety course that meets the State's requirements and is free of charge. Owning a firearm costs money, period. EVERYTHING has a cost, period.
If "your ability to defend yourself and your loved ones" is your main priority then you must find your way to make it happen.
I’ve personally known certain instructors who have gone out if their way to help someone in their time of need - aloha goes a long way :shaka: :shaka:
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With the exception of the State Hunter Safety course I don't know of any Firearms Safety course that meets the State's requirements and is free of charge. Owning a firearm costs money, period. EVERYTHING has a cost, period.
Join the military.
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They should do this for dog parks as well. 1 dog per person for 1 hours. How about beaches? 1 hour per person, sign up online.
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There is a BLM protest walk tomorrow from 12 to 4.
Ala Moana to the capitol.
How did those people get a permit to close down streets to exercise their constitutional right so quickly?
They have 4 hours. I would be happy to have 4 hours at the range. I want equal time.
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There is a BLM protest walk tomorrow from 12 to 4.
Ala Moana to the capitol.
How did those people get a permit to close down streets to exercise their constitutional right so quickly?
They have 4 hours. I would be happy to have 4 hours at the range. I want equal time.
Our local politicians need that BLM money
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I’ve personally known certain instructors who have gone out if their way to help someone in their time of need - aloha goes a long way :shaka: :shaka:
That is good to hear, and I am not surprised that it happens. :shaka:
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==================
There is a BLM protest walk tomorrow from 12 to 4.
Ala Moana to the capitol.
How did those people get a permit to close down streets to exercise their constitutional right so quickly?
They have 4 hours. I would be happy to have 4 hours at the range. I want equal time.
not sure about this info but this is what I got:
"IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ!
PROTESTS: HPD reached out to inform us that a group has arrived from the mainland to protest over the weekend, Fri-Sun 6/5-6/7).
The times/places are below:
6/5 (1200-1500): Ala Moana Beach-->Duke's Statue
6/6 (1200-1600): Ala Moana Beach-->State Capitol
6/7: West Side
These are not nice protestors. We may see a riot which can result in mass traumas, casualties and structural damage. Be prepared for a Code Triage (disaster plan). We will staff up over the weekend.
PLEASE, PLEASE stay home and tell your family to stay home this weekend.
We don't know how bad it will get and how this will impact our COVID numbers.
Do not engage these people. Please keep yourselves and your families safe."
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not sure about this info but this is what I got:
"IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ!
PROTESTS: HPD reached out to inform us that a group has arrived from the mainland to protest over the weekend, Fri-Sun 6/5-6/7).
The times/places are below:
6/5 (1200-1500): Ala Moana Beach-->Duke's Statue
6/6 (1200-1600): Ala Moana Beach-->State Capitol
6/7: West Side
These are not nice protestors. We may see a riot which can result in mass traumas, casualties and structural damage. Be prepared for a Code Triage (disaster plan). We will staff up over the weekend.
PLEASE, PLEASE stay home and tell your family to stay home this weekend.
We don't know how bad it will get and how this will impact our COVID numbers.
Do not engage these people. Please keep yourselves and your families safe."
==============
I don't think the incoming traveler quarantine is lifted yet.
Therefore if protestors arrived here, they shouldn't be wandering around the streets.
Awww too bad, huh?
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I’ve personally known certain instructors who have gone out if their way to help someone in their time of need - aloha goes a long way :shaka: :shaka:
A lot of people helped me at the beginning and I've trained over 100 people for just the cost of supplies, sometimes at my own cost, along with hundredsof hours of volunteer time. If you take something, you have to pass it forward to the community.
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A lot of people helped me at the beginning and I've trained over 100 people for just the cost of supplies, sometimes at my own cost, along with hundredsof hours of volunteer time. If you take something, you have to pass it forward to the community.
Amen to that. Sharing our experience and growing responsible 2a community.
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not sure about this info but this is what I got:
"IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ!
PROTESTS: HPD reached out to inform us that a group has arrived from the mainland to protest over the weekend, Fri-Sun 6/5-6/7).
The times/places are below:
6/5 (1200-1500): Ala Moana Beach-->Duke's Statue
6/6 (1200-1600): Ala Moana Beach-->State Capitol
6/7: West Side
These are not nice protestors. We may see a riot which can result in mass traumas, casualties and structural damage. Be prepared for a Code Triage (disaster plan). We will staff up over the weekend.
PLEASE, PLEASE stay home and tell your family to stay home this weekend.
We don't know how bad it will get and how this will impact our COVID numbers.
Do not engage these people. Please keep yourselves and your families safe."
But wait the Democraps, Biden included, don’t believe these riots are fueled by these “ Nama aruki gomi” (raw walking garbage} ANTIFA and other assorted and sundry scumbags... I support peaceful protest but when they turn violent something has got to be done! :grrr:
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Amen to that. Sharing our experience and growing responsible 2a community.
I used to shoot very sparingly and didn't own any of my own firearms many years ago. 1 of the kokohead RSO's encouraged me to get my own, and I did. then I got bit by the firearm bug.
I've brought many non-shooters to kokohead and they really enjoyed it. a few went on to get their first firearm after that
I've helped build a few AR's for new shooters
I try to pass on parts at a decent price when I sell stuff. I don't really look to make money, just pass on parts so I can get new parts myself
I'm not the most knowledgeable or the best shooter, but I really enjoy shooting, reloading, modifying, building
sharing knowledge, parts, experience. that's the name of the game! :shaka:
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A lot of people helped me at the beginning and I've trained over 100 people for just the cost of supplies, sometimes at my own cost, along with hundredsof hours of volunteer time. If you take something, you have to pass it forward to the community.
you guys even helped jump start my friends truck one time at kokohead when his battery was dead.
thanks for that. :shaka:
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I used to shoot very sparingly and didn't own any of my own firearms many years ago. 1 of the kokohead RSO's encouraged me to get my own, and I did. then I got bit by the firearm bug.
I've brought many non-shooters to kokohead and they really enjoyed it. a few went on to get their first firearm after that
I've helped build a few AR's for new shooters
I try to pass on parts at a decent price when I sell stuff. I don't really look to make money, just pass on parts so I can get new parts myself
I'm not the most knowledgeable or the best shooter, but I really enjoy shooting, reloading, modifying, building
sharing knowledge, parts, experience. that's the name of the game! :shaka:
My dad had lots of guns, but we never shot them when I was growing up. That did start my interest in them though and got my own after college. It wasn't until I moved back home and went to one of those Waikiki ranges and contracted the Black Rifle disease, and I got it BAD!!! Then I started with HRA and other 2a groups and was great to connect to like-minded folks. Similar to you, I try to pass on stuff that at really good price and have given away lots of stuff to friends and I really appreciate those who do the same. Sharing it's what it's all about.
Best shooter part? Only one way to find out. ;D
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it did work better on google chrome
some stuff didn't work on my desk top bc i don't have chrome on that
kind of not very user friendly on my phone either, but i made it work
who the hell makes an app only for google chrome???
I'll put my tin foil hat on for a moment and share that Google Chrome tracks you better than other browsers like Firefox.
Just a quick theory though... (tinfoil hat off)
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I'll put my tin foil hat on for a moment and share that Google Chrome tracks you better than other browsers like Firefox.
Just a quick theory though... (tinfoil hat off)
Use the Brave Browser. but its more for preventing tracking from corporations and annoying advertisements
https://brave.com/
Better yet use the Tor Browser
https://www.torproject.org/download/
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Dumb question time... there are a few time slots still showing available on the site, however it says that online enrollment is closed.
This specific time in the picture is for Wednesday 6/10 @ 3pm on the rifle side (at the time of this post 5 days away).
What's up with this????(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200606/1cb1966935ffb28cb6410ccb7f0ea01d.jpg)
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At the range today. Everyone parking on the grass. 2 no shows on the pistol side so they taking wait-list & whoever's here. One side of the range shoots, left half or right half, while the other side sets up. Eveeyothee target occupied.
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Relays are 15 to 20 minutes. The hour is a good amount of time for a practice session, I shot about 100rnds. Just be expedient and efficient. It is short if youre a bullseye shooter or helping someone.
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At the range today. Everyone parking on the grass. 2 no shows on the pistol side so they taking wait-list & whoever's here. One side of the range shoots, left half or right half, while the other side sets up. Eveeyothee target occupied.
....
Did they really sanitize the positions after your hour is Pau?
What method? Who did it?
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I went rifle side 0800 today. heres what I learned:
like Zippz said, 1 side shoots for 1 hour the other side shoots the next hour. left side or right side of the office on rifle side. they are going every bench, not every other bench. idk why they cant just shoot every bench all the time with a cleanup time in between. I guess that's to hard for C&C to figure out.
can have more than 1 person per bench. no need sign them up online, but must be from same household. when I asked, it did not seem to me like there is a way to check if they live in same household or didn't seem to me like the RSO's would care about that.
I was only able to sight in 1 rifle bc I forgot my fricken spotting scope. :'(
but after a while i borrowed one of the RSO spotting scope and could get my optic dialed in
shot some more. before you know it, times up.
was good to be back. but the rules need to change
also asked about silhouette and shotgun. but they don't know about that. they only said "soon"
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....
Did they really sanitize the positions after your hour is Pau?
What method? Who did it?
rifle side, they did sanitize it with a garden sprayer looked like. filled with disinfectant
the RSO does it. he did put ample amount of disinfectant. really sprayed it good. I feel confident that it was a good job.
I also brought my own bleach solution and sprayed it down before I used it. RSO sprayed when I left
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benches were repainted
there is a soap dispenser in bathroom
I saw C&C worker there at 0730 working in bathroom
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I just got back from the pistol range, the only thing I can add is this:
1. they painted the bench and the seats--easier to disinfect.
2. there's 3 relays per hour on the pistol side--I thought is was only 2 so I burned up most of my ammo during the first 2 relays, :rofl:
2. a couple of people showed up with no reservations and no understanding that they had to go online to make reservations. ROs were very patient explaining the system to them
and they could wait for a no show spot but they weren't given a "pass" for this morning--either wait or go home and make reservations.
3. I was told that the "no parking on the grass" was just a cut and paste from another park's site--everyone was parked on the grass, the paved lot was completely empty.
4. Traffic was very light, enjoy it while it lasts! :thumbsup:
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one more thing--at the pistol side they had a print out of each session's reservations. I brought my "receipt" just in case but there seems to be no need for that.
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Rifle range was rearranged a bit, an extra lane between tables. They're reporting 1 or 2 no shows per hour.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200606/6967c1f748db6bea0e0183ef672ffc42.jpg)
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The old way was sign in and take wherever bench is open. What does one do now? Do they go to the range officers office to confirm your lane reservation?
Sort of like checking in to a Hotel? ;D
I'm glad though that so far whoever went experienced a good atmosphere considering the changes.
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The old way was sign in and take wherever bench is open. What does one do now? Do they go to the range officers office to confirm your lane reservation?
Sort of like checking in to a Hotel? ;D
I'm glad though that so far whoever went experienced a good atmosphere considering the changes.
They will have your bench reserved by number, theyll tell you where to go
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Online sign ups for 6/14 (furthest out I see on the site) are closed and the appointment window was 6/3 at 12:00 pm until 6/4 at 11:59 pm. Will we have to make appointments over a week ahead of time? And once the appointment window closes that slot goes unused unless someone is waiting at the range on the chance there will be an available bench?
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Mike says the team sports are opening up at Koko head park on the 19th, so club shoots should startup then or shortly after. Awaiting word from the highers.
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Online sign ups for 6/14 (furthest out I see on the site) are closed and the appointment window was 6/3 at 12:00 pm until 6/4 at 11:59 pm. Will we have to make appointments over a week ahead of time? And once the appointment window closes that slot goes unused unless someone is waiting at the range on the chance there will be an available bench?
I noticed that too. There were several available spaces on different days, but "Online Enrollment is closed!" :wtf:
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Rifle range was rearranged a bit, an extra lane between tables. They're reporting 1 or 2 no shows per hour.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200606/6967c1f748db6bea0e0183ef672ffc42.jpg)
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The last government regulated rifle range I was on was military.
But since 1978 all my rifle ranges were private setups.
I have done private indoor pistol ranges.
How do you use those benches? Storage Only?
Funny shape if so.
I'll never shoot at that facility but it looks alien
to any I've been to before.
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I noticed that too. There were several available spaces on different days, but "Online Enrollment is closed!" :wtf:
Hopefully this means they don't intend for this to be a permanent deal.
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I noticed that too. There were several available spaces on different days, but "Online Enrollment is closed!" :wtf:
Shows some slots open for this afternoon. Just go down early and try get in on standby.
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The last government regulated rifle range I was on was military.
But since 1978 all my rifle ranges were private setups.
I have done private indoor pistol ranges.
How do you use those benches? Storage Only?
Funny shape if so.
I'll never shoot at that facility but it looks alien
to any I've been to before.
It's for benchrest shooting, kinda out of fad nowadays like bullseye pistol. They don't have any benchrest competitions for it. People use it cause it's comfortable to shoot from or they put stuff on the table when shooting standing. Benchrest shooting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benchrest_shooting
Unfortunately vast majority of people only shoot from the table which is impractical when most shooting is done from the standing, kneeling, or prone in real life whether it's hunting, self-defense, precision rifle, or action shooting.
(https://www.staradvertiser.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/web1_07-A1--CTY-GUNS-aim.jpg)
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It's for benchrest shooting, kinda out of fad nowadays like bullseye pistol. They don't have any benchrest competitions for it. People use it cause it's comfortable to shoot from or they put stuff on the table when shooting standing. Benchrest shooting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benchrest_shooting
Unfortunately vast majority of people only shoot from the table which is impractical when most shooting is done from the standing, kneeling, or prone in real life whether it's hunting, self-defense, precision rifle, or action shooting.
(https://www.staradvertiser.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/web1_07-A1--CTY-GUNS-aim.jpg)
I could not make out the seats.
looked like storage.
Makes sense and it is old school.
Seen them but never used them.
Most guys have their own benches.
Or lay on the ground( like me).
Doesn't look like they'd allow that there
at your range.
Enjoy your range!
ThankX!
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Most guys have their own benches.
Or lay on the ground( like me).
Doesn't look like they'd allow that there
at your range.
Cannot do. They might think we're asleep, unconscious or dead. Also a safety hazard as people with mobility scooters may be blocked.
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Cannot do. They might think we're asleep, unconscious or dead. Also a safety hazard as people with mobility scooters may be blocked.
You almost cost me a keyboard!
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Mike says the team sports are opening up at Koko head park on the 19th, so club shoots should startup then or shortly after. Awaiting word from the highers.
Did he mention anything abiut the range opening up to regular buisness on the 19th? Seems like they are going to be allowing 100 people in outdoor settings. So i hope he listens to that reccomendation.
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The old way was sign in and take wherever bench is open. What does one do now? Do they go to the range officers office to confirm your lane reservation?
Sort of like checking in to a Hotel? ;D
I'm glad though that so far whoever went experienced a good atmosphere considering the changes.
Why did you expect something different. Always have a good time there.
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Why did you expect something different. Always have a good time there.
Glad to hear that. It's just that prior to re-opening people posted not being too happy with the new procedures. Just wanted to say that it's good it's working out to their satisfaction.
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Glad to hear that. It's just that prior to re-opening people posted not being too happy with the new procedures. Just wanted to say that it's good it's working out to their satisfaction.
Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. Negativity, rumors, hostility, jumping to conclusions, rampant speculation, you name it.
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4 no shows out of 8 at 9am on the pistol side and only one person on standby. Lots of slots getting wasted.
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4 no shows out of 8 at 9am on the pistol side and only one person on standby. Lots of slots getting wasted.
:(. Seems to be a growing problem. A buddy of mine went yesterday afternoon and 3/8 never showed. Memories of Hunters Ed classes of old.
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It showing “online enrollment closed” because all the slots are full, or because it says the enrollment date was only from 6/3-6/4? Because almost all of the time slots have the same enrollment deadline.
*edit, read previous posts, pretty irritating system. Guess I’ll have to keep an eye out for the next enrollment date and pull the trigger asap
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Good show up and walk on
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Or lay on the ground( like me).
Doesn't look like they'd allow that there
at your range.
Can do prone/kneeling/standing between the benches.
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Can do prone/kneeling/standing between the benches.
Not a good idea because they’re going to think tou’re dead and list the cause of death as COVID
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Not a good idea because they’re going to think tou’re dead and list the cause of death as COVID
....
And you'll be on the next press conference as a statistic.
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I have an appointment for Wed. at 3 pm that I'm going to have to cancel. I'll call it in on Wed. when they open at 12. IDK how early you can be waitlisted for an appointment but you can try--let us know if it works.
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Can do prone/kneeling/standing between the benches.
Then you have a better range than I thought.
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Anybody know the procedure to get on the wait list at Koko head?
:shaka:
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Anybody know the procedure to get on the wait list at Koko head?
:shaka:
I'm guessing you show up and ask the RSO if there is a no-show spot open. They won't know if someone is a no-show until the hour is about to start.
No-shows are different than cancellations.
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What is the # to call to cancel your appointment?
My coworker is asking.
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What is the # to call to cancel your appointment?
My coworker is asking.
When you make a reservation and check out, the receipt has a number for the range. I'd start with that.
(808) 768-6720
(https://i.imgur.com/EiVU3ig.png)
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Flapp - Thanks!! I didn’t even notice there was a phone # on the receipt
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Flapp - Thanks!! I didn’t even notice there was a phone # on the receipt
Ill take his appointment time!!! Lol
Just PM me his name and maybei can just fill in for him
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Yep this is the BS that is going to continue until we start ignoring these dumb regulations. They need to let people just show up and shoot, lay prone, and go back to regular business. Theres no excuse at this point, when malls and dining are back in buisness.
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Yep this is the BS that is going to continue until we start ignoring these dumb regulations. They need to let people just show up and shoot, lay prone, and go back to regular business. Theres no excuse at this point, when malls and dining are back in buisness.
The way for us to see changes is to appeal to the top. If the Mayor says ease the restrictions, the parks director will comply. The parks director is an appointed position so while you can make your case to her, she’ll take her direction from the Mayor. Filling out the form is best since it’s documented whereas commenting on Facebook or Instagram isn’t. It doesn’t have to be long, short and simple is ok, but be professional and polite. The more forms that are submitted the better. Spread the word, tell your 2a friends and neighbors to email, call, or write the mayor.
http://www.honolulu.gov/mayor/contactthemayor.html
530 South King Street, Room 300
(808)768-4141
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sign up is open for 10/17-10/21
got my appts already :geekdanc:
better get yours while you can. >:D
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wow. just about full already
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The way for us to see changes is to appeal to the top. If the Mayor says ease the restrictions, the parks director will comply. The parks director is an appointed position so while you can make your case to her, she’ll take her direction from the Mayor. Filling out the form is best since it’s documented whereas commenting on Facebook or Instagram isn’t. It doesn’t have to be long, short and simple is ok, but be professional and polite. The more forms that are submitted the better. Spread the word, tell your 2a friends and neighbors to email, call, or write the mayor.
http://www.honolulu.gov/mayor/contactthemayor.html
530 South King Street, Room 300
(808)768-4141
Already emailed mayor.
It looks like pretty much all slots are filled till the 21st. Im not sure how much longer the community should wait before we take a stand. The fact that someone cant go shooting or sighting in a rifle for the next nearly 2 weeks from today is absolute horse shit. I understand the necessity of the system at first. But like others pointed out, on june 19th the gov and mayor are expanding outdoor events to 100 people. If this is true. I dont see how kokohead cant resume then.
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sign up is open for 10/17-10/21
got my appts already :geekdanc:
better get yours while you can. >:D
Did you fast forward time? O.o
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Did you fast forward time? O.o
I used my flux capacitor. back to the future!
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The way for us to see changes is to appeal to the top. If the Mayor says ease the restrictions, the parks director will comply. The parks director is an appointed position so while you can make your case to her, she’ll take her direction from the Mayor. Filling out the form is best since it’s documented whereas commenting on Facebook or Instagram isn’t. It doesn’t have to be long, short and simple is ok, but be professional and polite. The more forms that are submitted the better. Spread the word, tell your 2a friends and neighbors to email, call, or write the mayor.
http://www.honolulu.gov/mayor/contactthemayor.html
530 South King Street, Room 300
(808)768-4141
I just emailed the mayor
I will email again tomorrow, and the next day, and keep on emailing :grrr:
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Department of parks and recreation is now using an online system to reserve time at the Kokohead shooting complex.
We are glad to have the range back open BUT.....
Here are our observations.
The system requires you to create an account to select a time. and date to shoot.
To book a slot you will need to provide medical information and emergency contact information.
Due to the time restrictions and social distancing requirements, it will (for the time being) be impossible to teach classes at the range.
You will not be able to book more than a one-time slot per day.
New rules in place: observed from video on the city website.
1)No parking on the grass - this limits the parking availability to approximately 16 vehicles.
2)Facemasks must be worn at all times, including shooting - this can pose a safety risk, mask hinders sightlines, and can become an entanglement risk.
3)Setup time is 15 minutes and shooting time is 1 hour, (we assume there is also a breakdown time). This means that each slot is reserved for 1 hour and 30 minutes.
4)The system appears to require you to include your address and phone number (shown on the receipt)
While we understand the system is new, they are calling it a PILOT system, which could mean that they intend to keep it in place a long term (forever). Just like the Police department's booking system, this will do nothing but hinder the ability of leag gun owners to acquire arms and train to use them in a safe manner.
The city post regarding the system can be found here : https://www.facebook.com/honolulu.parks/videos/569862310581495/
Maybe you should go to the Big Island
and do as you damn well please.
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Just got off of that PROS site. This is nuts...
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Just got off of that PROS site. This is nuts...
Less than 2 hours after it opens online signup and it's just about full
But each time I went had at least 1 no show. I went 3 times so far
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Does the site have popups?
If there are popups, I will need to use my home laptop. Great timing as my home laptop crashed this past weekend after doing an big update. :(
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Does the site have popups?
If there are popups, I will need to use my home laptop. Great timing as my home laptop crashed this past weekend after doing an big update. :(
I dont recall any popups
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I dont recall any popups
I tried to sign up via my work computer (during lunch break of course) and wasn’t able to get past the page that shows the various ranges at Koko Head. Will try on my iPad later.
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Does the site have popups?
If there are popups, I will need to use my home laptop. Great timing as my home laptop crashed this past weekend after doing an big update. :(
"they" were installing the tracking software...
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"they" were installing the tracking software...
Oh, no doubt. . .
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I tried to sign up via my work computer (during lunch break of course) and wasn’t able to get past the page that shows the various ranges at Koko Head. Will try on my iPad later.
Works best with Google Chrome.
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I tried to sign up via my work computer (during lunch break of course) and wasn’t able to get past the page that shows the various ranges at Koko Head. Will try on my iPad later.
Think you are on the wrong screen. Click the bicycle guy on the left side of the desktop screen. Activities.
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Less than 2 hours after it opens online signup and it's just about full
But each time I went had at least 1 no show. I went 3 times so far
Were you going to catch the no-show slots, or did you have a reservation?
Seems like that's my only chance to shoot there!
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This is depressing
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Were you going to catch the no-show slots, or did you have a reservation?
Seems like that's my only chance to shoot there!
I had a reservation each time
Idk if they can substitute for a no show bc what if the person is late and theres someone substituted shooting on their bench?
Maybe can only sub for a cancellation
I'm not sure. I didnt ask the RSO about this soecifically
Maybe that's why those benches were left empty
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I had a reservation each time
Idk if they can substitute for a no show bc what if the person is late and theres someone substituted shooting on their bench?
Maybe can only sub for a cancellation
I'm not sure. I didnt ask the RSO about this soecifically
Maybe that's why those benches were left empty
If a person is late, they can't put a target out until the next cease fire anyway.
RSOs should let someone already there and wanting to shoot use that position rather than hold it for a potential no-show.
IMO, if you're late, you're a no-show. You can be put on the next available no-show wait list, but your reservation was a no-show as soon as the clock hit the reserved time -- no grace period.
Simple rule: Late = cancelled.
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IMO, if you're late, you're a no-show. You can be put on the next available no-show wait list, but your reservation was a no-show as soon as the clock hit the reserved time -- no grace period.
Simple rule: Late = cancelled.
I agree whole heartedly! Or let’s go back to the old ways which we should be doing anyway.
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What's with the "Seats Available" number? Some show up as 1, but all the ones that I checked are waitlisted. What's the point of that Seats Available then?
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I agree whole heartedly! Or let’s go back to the old ways which we should be doing anyway.
Preaching to the choir. This current reservation system was a solution looking for a problem.
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F'ing irritating waiting for people that show up late or right when we going hot and we gotta wait for them
Yesterday waited 8 minutes for 2 groups that were late. And they're slow setting up
I dont mean to be an A-hole, but you holding everybody up
If you not ready on time, then wait till the target change. Your loss, not mine
I dont want to give up minutes for inconsiderate people
That's why man invented time. So we can shoot on time
Look at your watch. And if you late, dont lollygag, hurry the F up. Everybody waiting for you! :grrr:
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Today had to wait again
And the people were there early hanging out by their car
If you there early, set up
I no like wait for you!!! :grrr:
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Hope people are emailing the mayor and parks director on a regular basis. I emailed the kokohead management as well, glad they took the time to respond and hear concerns.
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Hope people are emailing the mayor and parks director on a regular basis. I emailed the kokohead management as well, glad they took the time to respond and hear concerns.
:shaka:
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There's a rumor that the Silhouette range will open next weekend. I don't have a contact to confirm it. If someone knows someone with the silhouette club then pls confirm.
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Trap is open next Sunday and Skeet has given the go ahead. They have to deal with some electrical issues first before opening.
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11 am group only had 2 shooters show and no wait list. :( >:(. There were more egrets and feral 🐓 than shooters
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11 am group only had 2 shooters show and no wait list. :( >:(. There were more egrets and feral 🐓 than shooters
Maybe the reservations system should start a no-show penalty policy.
Something like:
1 no-show in 30 days is allowed
2 no-shows in 30 days suspends reservation privileges for 2 weeks
3 no shows in 30 days suspends reservation privileges for a month
Over 3 no-shows in 30 days suspends the reservation account forever
Cancellations made up to 2 hours prior will not be considered no-shows.
Something like this might keep the honest folks honest. Intentional no-shows can use multiple email addresses anyway, but that's a different can of worms.
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Maybe the reservations system should start a no-show penalty policy.
Something like:
1 no-show in 30 days is allowed
2 no-shows in 30 days suspends reservation privileges for 2 weeks
3 no shows in 30 days suspends reservation privileges for a month
Over 3 no-shows in 30 days suspends the reservation account forever
Cancellations made up to 2 hours prior will not be considered no-shows.
Something like this might keep the honest folks honest. Intentional no-shows can use multiple email addresses anyway, but that's a different can of worms.
Good ideas.
Assessing a $10 to $20 fee for no-shows may help. People making reservations need to include a credit card. Of course, now they would need to program that into the system.
Without a no-show fee, many will just make haphazard reservations without worry about penalties - because there are none.
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Good ideas.
Assessing a $10 to $20 fee for no-shows may help. People making reservations need to include a credit card. Of course, now they would need to program that into the system.
Without a no-show fee, many will just make haphazard reservations without worry about penalties - because there are none.
It's hard to charge island residents for using a public park. It's even harder to charge them for NOT using it.
I always thought the range should require users to take some sort of orientation and safety course, to include a registration ID number proving you took it. if they had that, they could use the ID numbers for reservations, thereby excluding no-shows by anonymous reservation "squatters".
Then, if registered users with ID numbers are failing to show, they can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. If they don't pay a fine for repeated no-shows, that ID number could be blocked for future reservations until paid.
Lots of ways to skin that cat.
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No offense. But all these ideas are terrible. We shouldnt even consider making new ideas for this system in place. A credit card? Hell to the no we should be using a credit card for reservations in a tax payer funded park. Why give out more personal info?
If this no show is an issue, the only 2 options are. Keep emailing and calling and demanding the mayor to revert their decisions. Or, we as a community come together and ignore these rules and go about regular buisness.
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Or we can go back to how it was. I just got back from Lowes in Waikele and the amount of people milling about the store and also at the other retail outlets is far more worrisome than it would ever be at Koko Head shooting range.
This appointment thing is silly and counterproductive.
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Or we can go back to how it was. I just got back from Lowes in Waikele and the amount of people milling about the store and also at the other retail outlets is far more worrisome than it would ever be at Koko Head shooting range.
This appointment thing is silly and counterproductive.
💯. I over heard the RO’s saying they’d asked everyone from the previous group if they wanted to stay but they didn’t. They went on to say most said they didn’t bring enough ammo to last 2 hours. Keep writing and calling the mayor until things change. 🤙
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Theres an RO on the pistol side that scoops up your brass the minute it hits the ground and sorts it for his use on the table. What a dick. He dont care if you reload.
This situation with the online appts and closing half of the range to "disinfect" is a circus act.
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2 p.m. today was very sparse.
Whole left side of the range, us and 1 or two other groups.
No one within five or six benches of us.
Quietest I ever heard the range.
1 hour to zero 2 rifles stress free is not nearly enough.
It’s actually 50 minutes. (2 sessions of 25 minutes with target reset in between)
RO’s said plenty no shows because can’t cancel online.
People need to hunt down the number to call if they want to cancel.
Today had to wait again
And the people were there early hanging out by their car
If you there early, set up
I no like wait for you!!! :grrr:
If your early head up and sign in.
We got there 15 minutes early. I headed up to check it out.
RO’s had me sign in, assigned me my bench and told to get my targets on the stand at the bench ready to go, uncase rifles and load mags, just don’t put them in the gun.
All while the range was hot on the other side.
Cease fire of course is still everyone behind the yellow line.
But shift change was smooth because everyone was ready to go.
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No offense. But all these ideas are terrible.
People who do their political organizing on Facebook are not exactly experts at connecting the dots when it comes to privacy and government spying.
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I called to cancel on Wednesday, all I got was a recorded message and I left my message. I have no idea if my cancellation was forwarded to the pistol range. I don't ever recall seeing anyone on the phone at the pistol range, so from now on I'm not bothering to call.
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Has anyone heard anything about the private side?
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Online sign ups suck.
Just tried for next weekend and all the time slots that show one available, when you hit sign up, say class is full. Waitlist.
Mike said they can’t give a bench away to waitlisters until after the first full relay. Which means 25 minutes of shooting.
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Mdotweber - Trap reopens 6/21
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I see on the reservation website that starting the next week 6/24-6/28, on the pistol side there are 15 spots per hour, and 24 per hour rifle side
could be opening up a bit which is a step in the right direction
I also heard silhouette could reopen 6/19, but no confirmation on this
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All the time slots show space is available.
I’m logged in but it says: “open enrollment is closed. Click here to sign up”
But the sign up button is greyed out.
Am I too early?
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All the time slots show space is available.
I’m logged in but it says: “open enrollment is closed. Click here to sign up”
But the sign up button is greyed out.
Am I too early?
you are the early bird.
it will open at exactly 0800 tomorrow morning. get ready! :shaka:
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Thanks Stangz!
Just got my spot.
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Thanks Stangz!
Just got my spot.
me too
:shaka:
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Same- mahalo!!
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is Thursday the 25th a holiday bc kokohead signup shows holiday schedule for the 25th
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Nope
Thinking mistake from the other week
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is Thursday the 25th a holiday bc kokohead signup shows holiday schedule for the 25th
June 25, 2020:
International Day of the Seafarer
https://nationaltoday.com/international-day-of-the-seafarer/
Global Beatles Day
https://nationaltoday.com/global-beatles-day/
Bourdain Day (Anthony)
https://nationaltoday.com/bourdain-day/
National Work From Home Day
https://nationaltoday.com/national-work-home-day/
I doubt any of those are official state holidays with regards to scheduling, but you never know! :geekdanc:
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Nope
Thinking mistake from the other week
I think that's it
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I heard starting July 1st it will be first come first serve, no online reservations
Anyone can confirm?
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I don't play golf
golf is not a sport
its a bunch of guys hiding from their wives, its an excuse to not do house chores and drinking beer
And your issue with that is???? :D
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I heard starting July 1st it will be first come first serve, no online reservations
Anyone can confirm?
Do you know if it will be all 16 benches on a first come first serve basis, or are they still alternating like now?
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Do you know if it will be all 16 benches on a first come first serve basis, or are they still alternating like now?
I heard pistol will be every other bench
Rifle is going 24 benches next week already according to the reservation website
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I was at trap today and also heard that things were going back to “normal” in July
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I was at trap today and also heard that things were going back to “normal” in July
Any info on the steel side getting going also? :shaka:
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I was going to ask the same thing about silhouette.
I’ll ask Mrgaf. I think he was talking to Mike today by trap
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I was going to ask the same thing about silhouette.
Sign near Rifle RSO shed, had open date for Silhouette was June 27th.
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Mrgaf thought he heard 6/28....
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Sign near Rifle RSO shed, had open date for Silhouette was June 27th.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50032421537_91175ae637_m.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jecePx)2020-06-21_05-57-44 (https://flic.kr/p/2jecePx) by Mahalo808 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/183138989@N06/), on Flickr
Reservation required? Or first come first serve? Assuming they have to update the resv. System to reflect the steel side if resv. is required.
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Sign near Rifle RSO shed, had open date for Silhouette was June 27th.
Mrgaf thought he heard 6/28....
either way, I hope it opens soon.
i'll be rifle side on the 27th anyways. maybe i'll bring a couple extra for silhouette side jic
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My friend in the city says the memo went out this morning--as of July 1 the KHSC is open on a first come, first served basis, social distancing in place (whatever that means), and waitlisting to take place. The PROS online sign up will be discontinued. :thumbsup:
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My friend in the city says the memo went out this morning--as of July 1 the KHSC is open on a first come, first served basis, social distancing in place (whatever that means), and waitlisting to take place. The PROS online sign up will be discontinued. :thumbsup:
http://www.honolulu.gov/cms-dpr-menu/site-dpr-sitearticles/38579-koko-head-shooting-complex.html?fbclid=IwAR0_oLIdtIR2-OJyu_N3Y8EGZL1GID4XNOfu21DDqqtd72QrlQGbJoSuy2U
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My friend in the city says the memo went out this morning--as of July 1 the KHSC is open on a first come, first served basis, social distancing in place (whatever that means), and waitlisting to take place. The PROS online sign up will be discontinued. :thumbsup:
Can confirm.
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Thank god
Anyone know when the silhouette side gonna open?
:shaka: :shaka:
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Thank god
Anyone know when the silhouette side gonna open?
:shaka: :shaka:
I cannot confirm, but I've heard 6/27 or 6/28
on the link I posted above from C&C with their own kokohead website now, it doesn't say when it'll reopen but it doesn't say that its closed either. just says kokohead will return to normal 7/1
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http://www.honolulu.gov/cms-dpr-menu/site-dpr-sitearticles/38579-koko-head-shooting-complex.html?fbclid=IwAR0_oLIdtIR2-OJyu_N3Y8EGZL1GID4XNOfu21DDqqtd72QrlQGbJoSuy2U
has C&C taken over kokohead website now?
http://khsc.info/
is it bc this website has Hifico link at bottom and C&C doesnt want a pro2A organiztion doing the website for a shooting range?
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At least it’s going back to normal! :thumbsup:
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24 firing points
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24 firing points
It’s a lot better than the 8 we’ve had up until this point.
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My friend in the city says the memo went out this morning--as of July 1 the KHSC is open on a first come, first served basis, social distancing in place (whatever that means), and waitlisting to take place. The PROS online sign up will be discontinued. :thumbsup:
Anyone go to the range today? Everything back to normal?
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Nevermind. Answered in thread...
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http://www.honolulu.gov/cms-dpr-menu/site-dpr-sitearticles/38579-koko-head-shooting-complex.html?fbclid=IwAR0_oLIdtIR2-OJyu_N3Y8EGZL1GID4XNOfu21DDqqtd72QrlQGbJoSuy2U
OMFG best news i've heard in a while
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In my opinion one of the very few recreation places where the risk of virus infection is very low. If at all.
As long as we don't hug and kiss each other after every bull-eye...….. :thumbsup:
I'm very pleased and grateful that common sense prevailed in the decision to end the appointment procedures.