Post by: zippz on September 16, 2022, 10:55:13 AM
Post by: ren on September 16, 2022, 11:06:53 AM
Post by: WTF?Shane on September 16, 2022, 11:20:50 AM
https://www.honolulu.gov/cms-dpr-menu/site-dpr-sitearticles/38579-koko-head-shooting-complex.html (https://www.honolulu.gov/cms-dpr-menu/site-dpr-sitearticles/38579-koko-head-shooting-complex.html)
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 16, 2022, 11:27:48 AM
Post by: stangzilla on September 16, 2022, 11:34:30 AM
its not october yet
I just bought a crap load of 22 ammo too
https://www.honolulu.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38579:koko-head-shooting-complex&catid=182:site-dpr-cat
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 16, 2022, 11:35:59 AM
dam!
its not october yet
I just bought a crap load of 22 ammo too
Desk pops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWZTTtE5_zQ
Post by: ren on September 16, 2022, 11:44:59 AM
Post by: M450N91 on September 16, 2022, 12:17:58 PM
Post by: MrJones on September 16, 2022, 01:17:27 PM
Jones out.
Post by: zippz on September 16, 2022, 02:15:42 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on September 16, 2022, 02:22:05 PM
Post by: ren on September 16, 2022, 02:27:05 PM
Wonder if this is due to more lead poisoning cases by the RSOs? Mike the rangemaster is still out. It takes months or years for lead to clear out of someones system. Along with the county's slow hiring practices, this could be an ongoing problem.
From what I have heard the City did test the employees but had a lower threshold than national standards so some employees may have been out of range duties.
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 16, 2022, 03:14:03 PM
Post by: ren on September 16, 2022, 03:23:31 PM
I'm a hopeless conspiracy theorist and it's kicking in big time.
there is that one person who Ed Masaki called out and is a Youtube star. He is no longer on the HK neighborhood board but he had a disdain for the range. He would sit in his car all day waiting for that one negative photo op of a shooter shouldering their rifle and accuse us of purposely shooting at the sky. If you like shooting at Kokohead go ahead and get in those comments.
With all the corruption going on here who knows?
Post by: mrgaf on September 16, 2022, 04:05:37 PM
Drove from the north shore got there at 12:15. Range closed. You think they could have told us ahead of time. Wasted time and gas. Typical lame state of hawaii bs.
Jones out.
Yup this place is a fucking third world wack job.
Post by: robtmc on September 17, 2022, 04:27:51 AM
there is that one person who Ed Masaki called out and is a Youtube star. He is no longer on the HK neighborhood board but he had a disdain for the range. He would sit in his car all day waiting for that one negative photo op of a shooter shouldering their rifle and accuse us of purposely shooting at the sky. If you like shooting at Kokohead go ahead and get in those comments.That Knudsen orifice? The magic bullet guy?
With all the corruption going on here who knows?
He was heavily involved in the effort to stop the BI range from being built, go figure.
Post by: RSN172 on September 17, 2022, 07:15:36 AM
One of the few advantages of living in a remote area on the BI.
Post by: randay on September 17, 2022, 07:43:03 AM
Post by: zippz on September 17, 2022, 08:01:44 AM
I’m sure you’ve heard by now that the Koko Head Shooting Complex will be closed from 9/16/22 (Friday) until completion of the backstop restoration project. All shooting ranges & the archery range will be closed. All law enforcement training has been suspended as well.
I did not see this closure coming, caught me completely by surprise. The official statement is staff shortage, and that’s about all I can tell you, as AdMin is sticking to the statement. Not being hands on at the Range, I need to rely on info that is passed down to me.
The official press release is attached.
I’m still at Hanauma Bay due to my elevated lead blood levels. Having fun herding the tourists into the Bay!
So different from being at the Range.
In hindsight it might have been a blessing in disguise. Murvyn will be temporarily transferred to Kapiolani Park.
Think he’ll be a “park ranger”, patrolling the park. So if you see him there make sure to say Hi!
If there is any new information, I’ll be sure to pass it along.
Aloha,
Mike Muramoto
Post by: groveler on September 17, 2022, 10:04:23 AM
I have my own range. Shoot when I like and how I like. Neighbors do the same.I can also, but I end up with a house full of dogs, and I won't see my
One of the few advantages of living in a remote area on the BI.
cattle, donkey, and horse for a week.
But I will say full auto fire across the gulch from me sounds like "victory".
Cowboys having fun.
:popcorn:
Post by: hvybarrels on September 17, 2022, 10:14:20 AM
Post by: groveler on September 17, 2022, 10:42:35 AM
Sooner or later there won’t be enough cops and then we can all have private ranges. Just don’t shoot where you want to grow food. Or uphill of that.Most my ammo is copper, tungsten, Bismuth, and steel.
7.62X39. BBs, and pellets.
Y'all got to think international when you have Democrat
rulers.
;D
Post by: mrgaf on September 17, 2022, 12:40:27 PM
Post by: ren on September 17, 2022, 12:53:30 PM
I wish every one of the RSO’s well and that their lead levels dissipate as soon as possible. Their health and well being are more important than the range. That being said I fear the conditions that have caused the high levels of lead in their blood could spell the beginning of the end for the range. I guess if it takes center stage the best we can hope for will be the banning of anything that contains lead (there are alternatives). Worst case scenario would be the permanent closure of KHSC and those who are against the range, firearms, shooting sports, etc will finally have their way……. :-\
Write our City reps....it worked in getting A range out here in Waipahu...which is...well...
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 17, 2022, 03:46:01 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 17, 2022, 03:56:06 PM
Design the shooting bays to be more open air. Frankly, the rifle side is pretty open air, but the pistol side is more closed in and can benefit with a more open-air structure.
I don't know. The current open air set-up didn't protect the RSO's from environmental toxins.
Maybe invest in closed lanes with quality air handlers the way private ranges are. The RSO can observe via closed circuit video and through large windows, keeping them from constant exposure to the vapors and toxins being spewed into the air.
Future cleaning would be much easier. Safety for all shooters would be greatly enhanced. Plus, that would remedy the question of ricochets once and for all! I for one enjoy not wasting time walking to check and change targets when a mechanical line system can set and retrieve targets while no one on other lanes need to stop and wait. :thumbsup:
As for how to pay for it, I wouldn't mind paying a small fee to shoot there, plus a "pro shop" could raise more money selling ammo, targets, and accessories.
Just a thought. :geekdanc:
Post by: aieahound on September 17, 2022, 06:10:28 PM
Just a thought. :geekdanc:
I like dreaming too.
More likely respirators will be required if they don’t close it.
This might be a serious problem in keeping the range open if it gains steam.
Hopefully N95 with vent will suffice.
Post by: powder monkey on September 17, 2022, 06:29:40 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 17, 2022, 06:32:23 PM
Write our City reps....it worked in getting A range out here in Waipahu...which is...well...Ohhhh snap.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: aieahound on September 17, 2022, 06:55:42 PM
Also include clothing and anything exposed to air borne dust.
Never thought about that.
Gloves, shoe covers, paper suits…..
Seriously, they might be able to turn this into something serious if it gains steam.
They weren’t berm diving after hours were they….JUST KIDDING !
Hope Mike and the gang aren’t seriously affected and get better soon.
Post by: powder monkey on September 17, 2022, 07:15:22 PM
Post by: Rocky on September 18, 2022, 07:38:19 AM
Brake mechanic is constantly exposed to asbestos dust, Squid working the power plant exposed tot radiation.
same as OF with decades of handling lead reloading ?
If you sit at the range under a roof for 8 hrs of shooting daily for years, you are continually exposed to lead and contaminants.
Rotation of RSO's may be beneficial or put them in plexi boxes with air filtration.
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 18, 2022, 08:45:43 AM
Job hazard.
Brake mechanic is constantly exposed to asbestos dust, Squid working the power plant exposed tot radiation.
same as OF with decades of handling lead reloading ?
If you sit at the range under a roof for 8 hrs of shooting daily for years, you are continually exposed to lead and contaminants.
Rotation of RSO's may be beneficial or put them in plexi boxes with air filtration.
I guess with KHSC being in an open air environment not too much attention was given to the fact that these RSO's were still exposed to contaminants on a daily basis year in, year out.
Plexi-boxes with air filtration and a PA system is a good idea. The RSO's can rotate with the 2 or 3 RSO's outside the boxes that are visually and manually walking and controlling the firing line.
I don't know how they would handle the rotation though, since the contaminants will cling to the clothing and body of the RSO's manning the firing line. I'm sure there is a way.
Post by: Akubone1 on September 18, 2022, 01:31:59 PM
Post by: RSN172 on September 18, 2022, 06:45:14 PM
Post by: rpoL98 on September 18, 2022, 06:49:41 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 19, 2022, 08:57:06 AM
1) I have been going there since 2016 on various days (excluding Mon/Tues). When ever I go, I always see the same RSO's. So add in that they're there all day since I'll bet prior to 2016 and more like 15+ years, this was bound to happen over time. It's not like it happened in 1 month or 6 months.
2) I have seen RSO's eating food at the firing line, behind people while they are shooting. I have seen them grab donuts and other bare handed snacks before washing their hands. So I'm sure this contributes to it. If someone did this once a month, you're probably be OK. Even a few times a month. But on a daily basis over years is a diff story.
3) KKSC is already outdoors and not much more 1 can do besides not doing #2 and rotating the RSO's. Have them work at other parks for X amount of time then go back. Or even put a cap, after X years, you are moved permanently to another park.
4) I've heard people saying they should be wearing mask, again they would have to be fit tested and OSHA followed. Which by #2 above, they're not doing. As we have seen from COVID, even with N95 type respirators, majority of people are not wearing them correctly anyways.
5) Indoor ranges have special air systems. These filters cost about $15K each and need to be replaced like once a month. 808GC was not doing this correctly so had a few guys with higher lead levels, even regulars who hang there often had elevated levels. They have since corrected this once the current owner took ownership. So this was the previous owner who had this issue. And if anyone can see their roof, you can see all the soot on it. Which makes you wonder what isn't being filtered out.
I hope the best for all the RSO's affected and hope this event combined with others doesn't shut down the range. In the mean time, the 2 indoors will see a huge jump in revenue. I'm not a fan of either, but of the 2, I will be going to 808GC specifically to zero my RDS on my Shield. I'm even debating just leaving it zero'd to my ironss cause it's guud enuff until I go to Vegas in a few months and can hit up the indoors up there.
If anyone wants to know why, then I'll post it if requested. We all have our own reasons.
Post by: robtmc on September 19, 2022, 09:13:32 AM
Only those highly trained polices should be allowed firearms.
Looks like macsak had the right idea all along. No own any guns, ammo or reloading supplies.
Post by: aletheuo137 on September 19, 2022, 10:03:27 AM
Your selected masters will feel far more secure should you decide to do this.........https://youtu.be/DajmPDSS8FI
Only those highly trained polices should be allowed firearms.
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: Rocky on September 19, 2022, 11:23:18 AM
Looks like macsak had the right idea all along. No own any guns, ammo or reloading supplies.Yup, took up fishing instead !
:wave:
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 19, 2022, 11:26:25 AM
Yup, took up fishing instead !
:wave:
Just be careful, too many boating accidents have been known to happen.
Post by: WTF?Shane on September 19, 2022, 02:33:40 PM
If anyone wants to know why, then I'll post it if requested. We all have our own reasons.
I missed it in your post. What are we asking?
Edit: I re-read your post. If it's about the indoor gun ranges, lets not stray off topic.
Post by: WTF?Shane on September 19, 2022, 08:59:32 PM
Post by: zippz on September 21, 2022, 02:35:55 PM
1. No eating on the range.
2. Install handwashing stations at each range.
3. Clean clutter from all work areas.
4. Wipe down all surfaces periodically
5. Vacuum/sweep floors
6. Use PPE when cleaning.
7. Change clothing at the end of day.
8. Use lead testing strips on surfaces.
9. Periodic blood testing.
Post by: zippz on September 21, 2022, 02:39:10 PM
https://projects.seattletimes.com/2014/loaded-with-lead
Post by: drck1000 on September 21, 2022, 02:43:45 PM
Can't really help that for those spending a lot of time there.
Post by: ren on September 21, 2022, 03:28:01 PM
This is a good series about lead poisoning at ranges and what it does to the body.
https://projects.seattletimes.com/2014/loaded-with-lead
Yep. According to that article shut them all down. The City might as well raze the range down instead of "ricochet mitigation" and turn it into a parking lot for Hanauma Bay - a revenue generating park.
After the public range is down, target indoor ranges for an OSHA inspection. And voila, less demand for guns on an island. Less demand for pesky CCW etc. etc.
Strange that there is a "staffing issue" when a private organization is running 1/3 of the range and just by a casual glance there are more RSOs on that side of the range at times.
Post by: Rocky on September 21, 2022, 04:42:41 PM
This is a good series about lead poisoning at ranges and what it does to the body.Pardon my ignorance :oops: but how does lead residue come out of the barrel from a FMJ ? :wacko:
https://projects.seattletimes.com/2014/loaded-with-lead
Maybe FMJ requirement ?
Post by: powder monkey on September 21, 2022, 05:58:32 PM
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 26, 2022, 09:58:39 AM
Post by: drck1000 on September 26, 2022, 10:05:13 AM
Now closed until mid November. It was supposed to only be closed for October.:(
Any word on work being done? Just curious. Remediation? Or range grading? Berm maintenance, etc. I think last time they placed a lot of sand in the ruts formed in the 50-80ish yard zone.
I know remediation can take a while, especially if they didn't do sampling and testing prior to work being started. They should've done the sampling very soon after the range was closed.
Post by: zippz on September 26, 2022, 10:05:59 AM
Pardon my ignorance :oops: but how does lead residue come out of the barrel from a FMJ ? :wacko:
Maybe FMJ requirement ?
Some fmj bases are exposed lead, lead residue in barrel being blown out, primers contain lead. It's just extremely small amounts, but if you're on range all day every day, it builds up.
FMJ would help, but I don't think it's necessary with my proposed suggestions.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 26, 2022, 10:14:32 AM
:(
Any word on work being done? Just curious. Remediation? Or range grading? Berm maintenance, etc. I think last time they placed a lot of sand in the ruts formed in the 50-80ish yard zone.
I know remediation can take a while, especially if they didn't do sampling and testing prior to work being started. They should've done the sampling very soon after the range was closed.
IDK, I just saw a FB post by HRA about the extended date.
Post by: ren on September 26, 2022, 10:16:43 AM
Post by: QUIETShooter on September 26, 2022, 10:29:49 AM
Makes me wonder if C&C ever implemented a safety program at KHSC to address the problem. KHSC has been around a long time, longer than in the late 70's when I first started utilizing the ranges there.
After a while, family, work, and life kicked in and I visited less and less until it was nada. But I believe I would have known if any lead problems and new safety protocols were introduced because we have what is called.....news. I never heard of any lead safety protocols over the years at KHSC and I could very well be wrong. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Does the C&C have an ongoing lead safety program that was in place all this time?
And this is why I ask the question: If not how come only now?
Post by: ren on September 26, 2022, 10:46:25 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 26, 2022, 11:04:44 AM
All of these events happening at KHSC got me doing some searches on the internet about lead poisoning and open air ranges. Nothing too drastic for open air ranges: change of clothing, washing clothing separate from others, wash hands with cold water, even some respiratory masks and periodic blood testing.
Makes me wonder if C&C ever implemented a safety program at KHSC to address the problem. KHSC has been around a long time, longer than in the late 70's when I first started utilizing the ranges there.
After a while, family, work, and life kicked in and I visited less and less until it was nada. But I believe I would have known if any lead problems and new safety protocols were introduced because we have what is called.....news. I never heard of any lead safety protocols over the years at KHSC and I could very well be wrong. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Does the C&C have an ongoing lead safety program that was in place all this time?
And this is why I ask the question: If not how come only now?
I have never been to a mainland outdoor range, but like I posted earlier, I've seen the RO's eating multiple times.
Post by: drck1000 on September 26, 2022, 11:18:10 AM
I have never been to a mainland outdoor range, but like I posted earlier, I've seen the RO's eating multiple times.Been to a bunch, mostly private/semi-private. Many are the "check in when you arrive" and pay fee, range safety info, get target stands, etc. The ones I've shot on are mostly "check with others on the line", then when ready, clear line and go down range. Haven't seen folks get yelled at for not following, but I am sure it happens. I am guessing/assuming that those types of ranges are largely self regulating. Just like the archery range.
Post by: robtmc on September 26, 2022, 11:22:33 AM
Now closed until mid November. It was supposed to only be closed for October.Knudsen working the phones feverishly to make it permanent.
Count on it.
Post by: hvybarrels on September 26, 2022, 11:45:56 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 26, 2022, 12:00:04 PM
Two weeks to stop the spread
This officially ends the thread. You win bro. :rofl:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on September 26, 2022, 01:52:16 PM
I have never been to a mainland outdoor range, but like I posted earlier, I've seen the RO's eating multiple times.
All depends on who owns it -- i.e. the property owner.
Most open ranges have a "We are not responsible -- use at your own risk" sign to avoid legal issues.
If it's a private area just being made available for anyone to use, there is usually a collection box for donations and a list of rules posted. #1 rule is usually stop shooting if someone is walking beyond the benches. #2 is usually don't walk beyond the benches if someone is shooting. As long as the shooters communicate with each other, safety is self-regulating ... i.e. no RSO required.
There are cans for trash and used targets, and usually rules against shooting anything that leaves a mess, like bowling pins and glass bottles. Too hard to clean up even if you try to keep the area clean-ish.
If the range is state, city or county property, they'll normally run it like most parks: someone is on duty to oversee safety and call for help if there's a need.
Most of these places are not often packed with people. In fact, it's usually one or two groups or individuals at a time. If someone is being unsafe, it's best to wait until they leave -- sit in the car or come back later. Most people don't spend half a day shooting. They get bored or use up their ammo. Serious shooters take longer and are safer. The guy just there to feel the recoil and hear the noise isn't honing his skills.
The cost of indoor range time was super-cheap on the mainland, and you could bring in your own ammo. They might check for steel projectiles with a magnet or require only factory loads, but using bulk ammo you bought cheaper than by-the-box isn't a problem.
I usually bought my targets there unless I knew they had a limited supply/selection. Don't buy a second target until you need it. Saves you from keeping and returning with it if it's unused.
And you should always police your brass! Leaving it there no matter whose property it is just makes someone else deal with it. Every indoor range I visited lately required you to dump your spent brass into buckets for the range to sell or reload -- it helps keep their, and your, range costs down.
I prefer an indoor range that lets shooters just shoot without a bunch of "Do's and Do-Not's". Those places will supervise the obviously less experienced patrons and correct them on the spot. Way better than making them read a page of rules and sign it.
PSA in SC has an excellent range, and the first time you go means signing a few forms for safety education and legal liability. If you're a Vet, they let you shoot for free on holidays like Memorial Day. I used my ammo and their targets. Cost me $3 in targets for 2 hours on a range with state-of-the-art lanes. :geekdanc: :thumbsup:
Post by: hk45c on September 26, 2022, 05:23:35 PM
Now closed until mid November. It was supposed to only be closed for October.
Where does it say that? The site just says closed until further notice.
http://khsc.info/
I think it used to describe the refurbish work for the berm but now it just says "until further notice". Seems like a bad sign to me.
I have seen road side signs about roadwork scheduled to start in 2019 that are still up, so not exactly holding my breath until they reopen, haha.
Post by: changemyoil66 on September 26, 2022, 06:19:08 PM
Where does it say that? The site just says closed until further notice.HRA posted about it.
http://khsc.info/
I think it used to describe the refurbish work for the berm but now it just says "until further notice". Seems like a bad sign to me.
I have seen road side signs about roadwork scheduled to start in 2019 that are still up, so not exactly holding my breath until they reopen, haha.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: ren on October 07, 2022, 09:19:45 AM
Post by: powder monkey on October 07, 2022, 03:24:18 PM
Range work pushed back to Oct 17th...
Heard same thing
Post by: MassConfusion on October 07, 2022, 03:43:24 PM
All depends on who owns it -- i.e. the property owner.My father had belonged to an indoor range one town over for years. This was back in NJ. I was able to use it either with him or I was able to use it because of the town bullseye pistol league that encompassed 3 or 4 different towns. The indoor range was nice if not a little dated, hardly ever saw anyone there when I did go. It was something like 15-20 lanes with auto wire target runners which they had updated from steel stands at some point. Never saw a RO.
Most open ranges have a "We are not responsible -- use at your own risk" sign to avoid legal issues.
If it's a private area just being made available for anyone to use, there is usually a collection box for donations and a list of rules posted. #1 rule is usually stop shooting if someone is walking beyond the benches. #2 is usually don't walk beyond the benches if someone is shooting. As long as the shooters communicate with each other, safety is self-regulating ... i.e. no RSO required.
There are cans for trash and used targets, and usually rules against shooting anything that leaves a mess, like bowling pins and glass bottles. Too hard to clean up even if you try to keep the area clean-ish.
If the range is state, city or county property, they'll normally run it like most parks: someone is on duty to oversee safety and call for help if there's a need.
Most of these places are not often packed with people. In fact, it's usually one or two groups or individuals at a time. If someone is being unsafe, it's best to wait until they leave -- sit in the car or come back later. Most people don't spend half a day shooting. They get bored or use up their ammo. Serious shooters take longer and are safer. The guy just there to feel the recoil and hear the noise isn't honing his skills.
The cost of indoor range time was super-cheap on the mainland, and you could bring in your own ammo. They might check for steel projectiles with a magnet or require only factory loads, but using bulk ammo you bought cheaper than by-the-box isn't a problem.
I usually bought my targets there unless I knew they had a limited supply/selection. Don't buy a second target until you need it. Saves you from keeping and returning with it if it's unused.
And you should always police your brass! Leaving it there no matter whose property it is just makes someone else deal with it. Every indoor range I visited lately required you to dump your spent brass into buckets for the range to sell or reload -- it helps keep their, and your, range costs down.
I prefer an indoor range that lets shooters just shoot without a bunch of "Do's and Do-Not's". Those places will supervise the obviously less experienced patrons and correct them on the spot. Way better than making them read a page of rules and sign it.
PSA in SC has an excellent range, and the first time you go means signing a few forms for safety education and legal liability. If you're a Vet, they let you shoot for free on holidays like Memorial Day. I used my ammo and their targets. Cost me $3 in targets for 2 hours on a range with state-of-the-art lanes. :geekdanc: :thumbsup:
Also belonged to an outdoor range that was maybe 25 minutes from where I use to live as well. This one had something like 5 different areas, skeet, 300, 100 yrd rifle ranges, pistol, silhouette and archery. Something like that. There was a full time live in RO and one assistant that basically lived there and they only time they ever really bothered you was when you were "rapid firing" or caught you doing something super unsafe for which you might get banned from the range. I think i paid something like 200 or 300 a year for that place. Could bring a friend a few times as well before they made them become a member, if you like it buy it.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 07, 2022, 04:03:10 PM
My father had belonged to an indoor range one town over for years. This was back in NJ. I was able to use it either with him or I was able to use it because of the town bullseye pistol league that encompassed 3 or 4 different towns. The indoor range was nice if not a little dated, hardly ever saw anyone there when I did go. It was something like 15-20 lanes with auto wire target runners which they had updated from steel stands at some point. Never saw a RO.
Also belonged to an outdoor range that was maybe 25 minutes from where I use to live as well. This one had something like 5 different areas, skeet, 300, 100 yrd rifle ranges, pistol, silhouette and archery. Something like that. There was a full time live in RO and one assistant that basically lived there and they only time they ever really bothered you was when you were "rapid firing" or caught you doing something super unsafe for which you might get banned from the range. I think i paid something like 200 or 300 a year for that place. Could bring a friend a few times as well before they made them become a member, if you like it buy it.
What I liked most about the mainland is you have options. You can pay for wherever you like most, or save money to use a "no frills" private range. Some were better for pistol, others for rifle, still others great for both. We had a skeet-only range on Tinker AFB. Drove all around the end of the main runway, and it was a trailer next to 2 full skeet layouts with self-service towers. You pay a couple of bucks per round to help them buy more clay targets, load the catapults in the towers, and carry the control box with you as you moved to each position. Shooters would run the towers for each other. When finished, the place was still open about an hour past sunset if you wanted a couple of beers.
So, no matter where you were, there was always a place where you could "go do some shooting" without making it a big production.
The main range we used was in Midwest City a couple blocks outside the base main gate. It was convenient for 3-4 people in my office to meet up after work and shoot together. .38 Special wadcutters were about 10 cents per round. :thumbsup:
Post by: MassConfusion on October 07, 2022, 04:17:02 PM
What I liked most about the mainland is you have options. You can pay for wherever you like most, or save money to use a "no frills" private range. Some were better for pistol, others for rifle, still others great for both. We had a skeet-only range on Tinker AFB. Drove all around the end of the main runway, and it was a trailer next to 2 full skeet layouts with self-service towers. You pay a couple of bucks per round to help them buy more clay targets, load the catapults in the towers, and carry the control box with you as you moved to each position. Shooters would run the towers for each other. When finished, the place was still open about an hour past sunset if you wanted a couple of beers.I could always just head out into the woods during hunting season with my shotgun and screw around that way. Maybe bring home some squirrel Mcnuggets, not much to eat on them besides the legs. The town had a pistol range that was for the police to shoot at, the bullseye team could use it as well. I use to go over there occasionally and pick up all the brass the popo use to leave behind after their practice/qualifying. Got probably 2k cases a year from that. The place was basically a hillside with a public road maybe 100 feet away. I don't think that would fly around here.
So, no matter where you were, there was always a place where you could "go do some shooting" without making it a big production.
The main range we used was in Midwest City a couple blocks outside the base main gate. It was convenient for 3-4 people in my office to meet up after work and shoot together. .38 Special wadcutters were about 10 cents per round. :thumbsup:
If we felt saucy we would go here http://www.thundermt.com/ (http://www.thundermt.com/). Fun place to shoot skeet.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 07, 2022, 04:31:47 PM
I could always just head out into the woods during hunting season with my shotgun and screw around that way. Maybe bring home some squirrel Mcnuggets, not much to eat on them besides the legs. The town had a pistol range that was for the police to shoot at, the bullseye team could use it as well. I use to go over there occasionally and pick up all the brass the popo use to leave behind after their practice/qualifying. Got probably 2k cases a year from that. The place was basically a hillside with a public road maybe 100 feet away. I don't think that would fly around here.
If we felt saucy we would go here http://www.thundermt.com/ (http://www.thundermt.com/). Fun place to shoot skeet.
Reminds me of the first time I ever shot "skeet."
It was at a Boy Scout outing (Father/Son Day). Since my dad wasn't in the picture, my uncle went with me.
There was a treehouse type building with a large net in front. The workers would use a manual skeet sling to toss the clay targets while you tried to hit them with a .22 rifle! Yep. A .22! You got 2 rounds to try and hit one. I got lucky and hit the first one, but missed the second. My uncle said, "I'm gonna have to take you quail hunting!" (never did)
The net was to catch and collect the unbroken targets, of which 99% were undamaged -- go figure.
Later, I was in awe at how much less challenging it is using a 12 gauge! :rofl: :thumbsup: :geekdanc:
Post by: stangzilla on October 08, 2022, 11:10:36 AM
Any truth to that? Or is that just 3rd party info exaggerated
Post by: punaperson on October 08, 2022, 01:36:09 PM
A friend told me that a LGS told him that kokohead will be closed 6-12 monthsWell, you know the plan is permanent closure. Is anyone with that goal going to say it out loud, or even say how long the temporary closure will be until they can get the permanent closure enacted? Doubt it.
Any truth to that? Or is that just 3rd party info exaggerated
Remember, the chief said he'd be issuing carry licenses "by the end of August". Just another example.
Post by: Kalikikopa on October 08, 2022, 03:55:31 PM
A friend told me that a LGS told him that kokohead will be closed 6-12 months
Any truth to that? Or is that just 3rd party info exaggerated
A police officer I talked to said they got a notice that the range was closed indefinitely. I'm hoping that to mean until further notice.
Post by: robtmc on October 08, 2022, 04:09:41 PM
A police officer I talked to said they got a notice that the range was closed indefinitely.Somewhere in Hawaii Kai, Knudsen is popping open the champagne.
A plan is coming together.
Post by: ren on October 08, 2022, 04:14:03 PM
https://www.honolulu.gov/mayor/contactthemayor.html (https://www.honolulu.gov/mayor/contactthemayor.html)
Post by: Rhed on October 08, 2022, 04:14:45 PM
Somewhere in Hawaii Kai, Knudsen is popping open the champagne.
A plan is coming together.
Bet the indoor range owners is popping champagne with Knudsen too!
Post by: ren on October 08, 2022, 04:15:56 PM
Bet the indoor range owners is popping champagne with Knudsen too!and raising rates
Post by: Akubone1 on October 08, 2022, 06:09:23 PM
A police officer I talked to said they got a notice that the range was closed indefinitely. I'm hoping that to mean until further notice.
Not surprised. I don’t think they have the ROs to open the range anytime soon. Hopefully they come up a with a plan to monitor lead. Today I did a good cleaning on the rifles and prepped them for long term storage just in case.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 08, 2022, 06:46:49 PM
Like buying preps only when get hurricane warning.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: Rhed on October 08, 2022, 08:05:29 PM
and raising ratesExactly!
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 09, 2022, 03:52:36 AM
A plan is coming together.
Demokrat gun control plan of Hawaii in conjunction with new SCOTUS decision. A delay tactic that will take decades to litigate.
And that's perfectly fine with them. And when the litigation ends in their loss, they'll think of something else again. They have plenty of time.
Post by: hvybarrels on October 09, 2022, 12:55:59 PM
― Ian Fleming, Goldfinger
Post by: ren on October 13, 2022, 01:59:23 PM
Post by: powder monkey on October 19, 2022, 01:12:25 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 19, 2022, 02:02:58 PM
Dont know when range will reopen as RSOs have all tested above limits allowed by DPR.
I think the C&C needs to get a written letter of intent from all the RSOs as to whether or not they will be remaining RSOs, or if they want to quit/be reassigned to prevent further lead exposure.
Otherwise, this closure will linger on and on until the C&C finally believes the problem is fixed, only to have RSOs bail after being on worker's comp (I assume that's covering the cost of treatment and lost pay).
It's not a negative on the RSOs if they decide to quit, but the range needs trained RSOs. How long does that take? If there are certifications, when are those classes/tests given?
I bet the politicians are satisfied to let this situation continue, and then claim "unforeseen personnel shortages" when the range is finally able to open.
I might be wrong, but I see this as normal for government. Kick the can is their favorite game, right after "Monopoly".
Post by: stangzilla on October 19, 2022, 02:29:53 PM
when do they retest their blood levels?
Post by: robtmc on October 19, 2022, 03:10:37 PM
I fear for the future of KHSC.
Maybe open, then close again for "further study"
Post by: Akubone1 on October 19, 2022, 06:21:43 PM
how long does it take for the blood levels to return to normal?Half life of lead in adults is reported to be 28 days. But it could take a year or more for high levels of lead to drop.
when do they retest their blood levels?
Post by: ren on October 19, 2022, 06:49:12 PM
Post by: punaperson on October 19, 2022, 07:48:53 PM
I wonder if they've thought of that?
:wave:
Post by: ren on October 19, 2022, 07:54:21 PM
You know this whole range "situation" would go away if they simply banned firearms.
I wonder if they've thought of that?
:wave:
flip that around and you'll see their game plan
Post by: punaperson on October 20, 2022, 10:07:13 AM
flip that around and you'll see their game planBy "flip that around" are you suggesting
"You know this whole firearms "situation" would go away if they simply banned ranges."
If so, explain, because that makes no sense at all. How would the absence of ranges have any effect, much less a major one, on firearm possession? You got a John Lott paper on that?
Post by: stangzilla on October 20, 2022, 10:52:29 AM
Half life of lead in adults is reported to be 28 days. But it could take a year or more for high levels of lead to drop.
Good to know :shaka:
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 20, 2022, 11:11:03 AM
By "flip that around" are you suggesting
"You know this whole firearms "situation" would go away if they simply banned ranges."
If so, explain, because that makes no sense at all. How would the absence of ranges have any effect, much less a major one, on firearm possession? You got a John Lott paper on that?
When they shut down the race way at Campbell, the import race scene died over night. Many import stores closed shortly after: Hyper Sports, WMR, Eurosports, etc... What was left were the hardcore import enthusiast. For me this was 1 of 2 reasons why I got rid of my Subaru WRX, which I would take there often and do the 1/4 mile.
Then add in the free place NRA instructors can do their required handgun safety class shooting portion.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 20, 2022, 12:22:50 PM
When they shut down the race way at Campbell, the import race scene died over night. Many import stores closed shortly after: Hyper Sports, WMR, Eurosports, etc... What was left were the hardcore import enthusiast. For me this was 1 of 2 reasons why I got rid of my Subaru WRX, which I would take there often and do the 1/4 mile.
Then add in the free place NRA instructors can do their required handgun safety class shooting portion.
There would be a huge uptick in online Hunters' Ed enrollments. With the impact inflation is having, I'm sure more people are opting for the free (state-funded) course anyway.
IMO, this is the polar opposite of the state "increasing public safety", since there's no live fire portion in Hunter's Ed.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 20, 2022, 12:27:16 PM
There would be a huge uptick in online Hunters' Ed enrollments. With the impact inflation is having, I'm sure more people are opting for the free (state-funded) course anyway.
IMO, this is the polar opposite of the state "increasing public safety", since there's no live fire portion in Hunter's Ed.
Isn't hunters ed allowed online now too?
Post by: macsak on October 20, 2022, 12:31:48 PM
"There would be a huge uptick in online Hunters' Ed enrollments"
Isn't hunters ed allowed online now too?
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 20, 2022, 12:35:20 PM
Isn't hunters ed allowed online now too?
"There are no stupid questions," they told me. :geekdanc: :shaka:
Post by: drck1000 on October 20, 2022, 12:36:28 PM
"There are no stupid question," they told me. :geekdanc: :shaka:Only stooopid. . . nevermind. . .
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 20, 2022, 12:42:25 PM
focus
"There would be a huge uptick in online Hunters' Ed enrollments"
Online enrollments, sign up online but still show up in person for the class. Didn't say online hunters ed class.
I'm just screwing with you, I didn't understand that part of his post. No focus.
Post by: ren on October 20, 2022, 01:23:34 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 20, 2022, 01:23:54 PM
So yeah, it contradicts the "increasing public safety" mantra they harp. In my opinion the state is full of shiite and doesn't give a rat's ass about public safety.
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 20, 2022, 01:26:25 PM
I dont plan to write a peer reviewed paper but I spoke to a LGS and they said they will suffer if the range shuts down. No public venue to shoot. Less ammo bought. Less desire for guns. Several clubs use the range. Silhouette. Shotgun. Action. Bullseye pistol Smallbore.
We need a town hall meeting with the Mayor to assure us the City will keep the range open.
I agree. The LGS will suffer. Ammo prices are coming down. Hey, maybe it will get to the point where they will give it away.....NOT! :rofl: but I bet it get's close. ;D
Post by: ren on October 20, 2022, 01:33:26 PM
Post by: powder monkey on October 20, 2022, 02:17:52 PM
Post by: mrgaf on October 20, 2022, 04:52:50 PM
Funny how the state sponsers the Hunter's Education Class but there is no live-fire portion. I think this portion is important, especially for new gun owners.
So yeah, it contradicts the "increasing public safety" mantra they harp. In my opinion the state is full of shiite and doesn't give a rat's ass about public safety.
I’m a former master hunter Ed instructor for the state. Way back in the day every hunter Ed instructor except for one argued there MUST be a live fire portion in pistol, rifle and shotgun, given by HE instructors who were NRA certified in all three disciplines. DOCARE and DLNR endorsed the recommendation but the C&C and the state decided it was not necessary to have all that training, classroom was enough and that it would fulfill the requirement for a handgun permit to acquire, Big big mistake.
Just a little history…. :)
Post by: punaperson on October 20, 2022, 05:00:58 PM
I dont plan to write a peer reviewed paper but I spoke to a LGS and they said they will suffer if the range shuts down. No public venue to shoot. Less ammo bought. Less desire for guns. Several clubs use the range. Silhouette. Shotgun. Action. Bullseye pistol Smallbore.Oh, well, if you spoke to a LGS then I withdraw all questions about your assumptions and your data, as your evidence is unquestionably valid and proves your claim, which was:
We need a town hall meeting with the Mayor to assure us the City will keep the range open.
"You know this whole firearms "situation" would go away if they simply banned ranges."
Just to be clear, your assertion is that "firearms will go away, if the ranges are closed" and is based upon you talking to some person at a LGS who claims their business will decrease.
That seems par for your woefully inadequate understanding of logic.
PS By the way, the public range has been closed for 5 weeks now, how far down is the LGS business so far? Did they give you a timeline as to when they will be forced to close due to everyone having sold all their guns to out of state buyers due to lack of a public range?
Post by: ren on October 20, 2022, 05:08:47 PM
Post by: punaperson on October 20, 2022, 05:29:30 PM
Not looking for an argument. Looking for a way to open the range and keep it open. If you want to argue there's lots of trees in Kapiolani Park.Yeah, you just want to make absurd statements (having nothing to do with "looking for a way to open the range") and expect people to go "Yeah, brilliant point. What a deep thinker."
So, when is the range going to reopen so the LGSs can stay in business? I'm sure the C&C doesn't want to lose all that tax revenue.
Post by: mrgaf on October 20, 2022, 07:22:21 PM
Yeah, you just want to make absurd statements (having nothing to do with "looking for a way to open the range") and expect people to go "Yeah, brilliant point. What a deep thinker."
So, when is the range going to reopen so the LGSs can stay in business? I'm sure the C&C doesn't want to lose all that tax revenue.
Man you’re being a little rough there. How about lightening it up some. While there are some pretty smart people on this forum, none are a genius. We need to agree to disagree with respect. Just my honest opinion. : ???
Post by: punaperson on October 21, 2022, 07:32:06 AM
Man you’re being a little rough there. How about lightening it up some. While there are some pretty smart people on this forum, none are a genius. We need to agree to disagree with respect. Just my honest opinion. : ???I apologize. I'm so sorry. It was wrong of me to point out the illogic, contradictions, and lack of factual evidence in a post making unsupported and illogical claims (thus far unanswered).
I'm sure neither Thomas Paine nor Harry Truman would ever have done such a disrespectful thing.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 21, 2022, 10:08:54 AM
I apologize. I'm so sorry. It was wrong of me to point out the illogic, contradictions, and lack of factual evidence in a post making unsupported and illogical claims (thus far unanswered).
I'm sure neither Thomas Paine nor Harry Truman would ever have done such a disrespectful thing.
You're neither Thomas Paine nor Harry Truman.
"Respectfully" pointing that out, in case you were confused.
Post by: drck1000 on October 21, 2022, 10:22:07 AM
Post by: groveler on October 21, 2022, 10:31:28 AM
I’m a former master hunter Ed instructor for the state. Way back in the day every hunter Ed instructor except for one argued there MUST be a live fire portion in pistol, rifle and shotgun, given by HE instructors who were NRA certified in all three disciplines. DOCARE and DLNR endorsed the recommendation but the C&C and the state decided it was not necessary to have all that training, classroom was enough and that it would fulfill the requirement for a handgun permit to acquire, Big big mistake.Thank you for being an instructor!
Just a little history…. :)
I had lost my WA state hunters license and could not find my CA hunter safety
course diploma, so I had to take the Hawaii course.
I always made sure any kids living in my house took a hunter safety course.
I've helped raise more kids than my child., those courses always included live fire.
Not Hawaii, I was not impressed with the Hawaii course.
The instructor after graduation asked if I'd be interested in teaching the archery part.
He was serious! I had hunted modern, muzzle loader and Archery for years.
So I must have let it show.
Anyway thanks.
:thumbsup:
Post by: punaperson on October 21, 2022, 01:13:19 PM
You're neither Thomas Paine nor Harry Truman.LOL coming from you.
"Respectfully" pointing that out, in case you were confused.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 21, 2022, 01:17:05 PM
LOL coming from you.
I never compared myself to historically significant figures.
Just pointing out the fallacious straw argument posted by Mr. Logical.
Post by: mrgaf on October 21, 2022, 06:57:29 PM
Thank you for being an instructor!
I had lost my WA state hunters license and could not find my CA hunter safety
course diploma, so I had to take the Hawaii course.
I always made sure any kids living in my house took a hunter safety course.
I've helped raise more kids than my child., those courses always included live fire.
Not Hawaii, I was not impressed with the Hawaii course.
The instructor after graduation asked if I'd be interested in teaching the archery part.
He was serious! I had hunted modern, muzzle loader and Archery for years.
So I must have let it show.
Anyway thanks.
:thumbsup:
Thanks….
How long ago did you take the course? There were changes in the curriculum bout 1992. I mastered some classes on the BI in the late nineties when the masters there could not make it. Really enjoyed it and the students. Was also one of the masters who sponsored the Wilderness camp with Safari Club. During the summer HE Took 14 students from all the islands ages 10-12 up Mauna Kea the old ranger station in Keanu Kolu (spelling) for 4 days. Shooting, wildlife ID, survival, firearm safety, taxidermy and orienteering were taught. All the kids and instructors enjoyed it. We received letters from all the parents asking where their kids were, these were not the same kids they dropped off! I always looked forward to the camp every year (did 10 camps). To this day I see some of the kids, all grown up with families. The ask if I remember them and I must admit some I don’t but when they thank me for the great time they had it puts me on cloud 9. Left the program in 2017. Ok nuff of the memories….. :D
Post by: punaperson on October 22, 2022, 07:07:43 AM
I never compared myself to historically significant figures.Your typical full of sh*t response.
Just pointing out the fallacious straw argument posted by Mr. Logical.
I never compared myself to anyone. Show me where I did. You're a liar. Or stupid. Or both.
Please post the premises and conclusion of my "straw argument". Also, please provide an example of a non-fallacious straw argument.
I merely pointed out the that sub-message quotations from the person making the post were from two people who were often highly critical in very direct language of those that disagreed with them (i.e. not showing them "respect"). The poster's comment was "We need to agree to disagree with respect." Certainly both Paine and Truman utterred or wrote many statements that violated that standard. Why would the poster have one standard for those he quotes and another for others? Free to be inconsistent and contradictory, of course.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on October 22, 2022, 12:59:31 PM
Your typical full of sh*t response.
I never compared myself to anyone. Show me where I did. You're a liar. Or stupid. Or both.
Please post the premises and conclusion of my "straw argument". Also, please provide an example of a non-fallacious straw argument.
I merely pointed out the that sub-message quotations from the person making the post were from two people who were often highly critical in very direct language of those that disagreed with them (i.e. not showing them "respect"). The poster's comment was "We need to agree to disagree with respect." Certainly both Paine and Truman utterred or wrote many statements that violated that standard. Why would the poster have one standard for those he quotes and another for others? Free to be inconsistent and contradictory, of course.
You get pretty emotional, huh?
Not the most logical character trait.
Post by: Rocky on October 24, 2022, 08:26:28 AM
Post by: s15project on October 26, 2022, 06:50:08 AM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/10/26/closure-oahus-only-public-shooting-range-draws-questions-about-lead-hazards/
Post by: drck1000 on October 26, 2022, 07:12:20 AM
A feline aficionado is continuing attempts to further his agenda. Wind and rain is spreading lead into the ocean more then is being thrown into the ocean and lost when line breaks??
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/10/26/closure-oahus-only-public-shooting-range-draws-questions-about-lead-hazards/
Quote
Honolulu City Council Chair Tommy Waters said, “If what Greg Knudsen says is very true that the range manager and marine safety officer was removed because of lead poisoning, that’s really concerning and alarming actually. Because we want people to be safe.”I'll take that as a glimmer of hope.
“But I will tell you this folks, I made inquiries numerous times to the parks department to find out what’s going on because this is the only publicly owned shooting range, this is where our responsible gun owners have an opportunity to use their weapons,” he added.
Quote
“Now that we’re aware of this and also durther spreading into lead poisoning into the ocean when it rains and as Greg mentioned with the wind,” said Neighborhood Board Member Samuel Wolff. “There’s a lot of serious problems that now that the shooting range is closed, we should really take a more critical look at.”If he's referring to runoff, how the eff does that happen? Does he know anything about gravity?
Post by: hk45c on October 26, 2022, 08:02:12 AM
A feline aficionado is continuing attempts to further his agenda. Wind and rain is spreading lead into the ocean more then is being thrown into the ocean and lost when line breaks??The most encouraging part of the article seems to be the last statement. It might be standard BS but I am hopeful that it is not. Losing our only public range would affect a lot of businesses and hurt the economy further. My last trip to the gun shop was empty which I have never seen before.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/10/26/closure-oahus-only-public-shooting-range-draws-questions-about-lead-hazards/
Quote
He did send a statement on behalf of the Director of the Department of Parks and Recreation, Laura Thielen:
“The City’s Department of Parks and Recreation is working to immediately improve safety at the Koko Head Shooting Complex by adding a thick layer of clean dirt to the existing berms, encapsulating the existing berm and providing a greater protective layer that will help prevent any inert material kick-back. In the longer term, the City plans to undertake capital improvement projects that will not only improve the user experience, but improve – above and beyond what is required for daily operational maintenance and cleaning by the EPA – the safety conditions at the shooting range. We are being overly cautious, in the interest of public safety, and we appreciate the patience of the public as we work to implement these improvements.”
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 26, 2022, 08:16:09 AM
You mean through all these decades there was no lead poisoning safety protocol in place by the City and County for KHSC?
Post by: oldfart on October 26, 2022, 08:26:06 AM
I still find it strange that after all these years KHSC has been in existence that only now C&C is making a big hoopla about lead poisoning.=============
You mean through all these decades there was no lead poisoning safety protocol in place by the City and County for KHSC?
the city said it was a ricochet problem
knudsen is claiming lead problem
Post by: hk45c on October 26, 2022, 08:35:32 AM
=============
the city said it was a ricochet problem
knudsen is claiming lead problem
Having talked to the RSOs both stories are true. They had a ricochet break a truck window. Apparently a high power round hit a slug and caused that slug to fly off and break a car window. When they switched to 22cal only I talked to one RSO that said that sort of thing happens all the time and the slug wouldn't really harm you, he then walked around and picked up a smashed slug lying on the ground near by and showed it to me saying here is an example.
I had another RSO tell me that one of them were found to have high lead and was reassigned to work at hanauma bay.
So the two stories seem legit. The timing seems strange but might be coincidence. I am trying to stay optimistic.
Post by: Bota-CS1 on October 26, 2022, 08:37:48 AM
I still find it strange that after all these years KHSC has been in existence that only now C&C is making a big hoopla about lead poisoning.
You mean through all these decades there was no lead poisoning safety protocol in place by the City and County for KHSC?
Would it surprise you if the answer was no? And it’s not the C&C making the big hoopla over lead poisoning, It’s the Hawaii Cry neighborhood board that’s alleging the range is a danger to the surrounding community. How does that work exactly? Range was built first, and then the homes. ??? You bought a house on a golf course and you’re complaining when an errant golf ball hits your house.
(https://i.imgur.com/Rd2cTg2.jpg)
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 26, 2022, 08:40:51 AM
Or am I imagining it happened. Could've swear they shut it down a couple of weeks to do that. I mean yeah, the berms accumulate lead debris again but what are the chances? Like winning MegaBucks.
Post by: oldfart on October 26, 2022, 08:43:57 AM
Post by: hk45c on October 26, 2022, 09:10:40 AM
I thought last year or maybe the year before they shut down the range for a while so they can "rake out" all the lead from the berms.
Or am I imagining it happened. Could've swear they shut it down a couple of weeks to do that. I mean yeah, the berms accumulate lead debris again but what are the chances? Like winning MegaBucks.
If the neighbors that are complaining of potential lead poisoning wanted to prove their case they could just get tested. It's just an opportunity to shut down the range because they didn't do their due diligence when they purchased their home to know the range was there. When I was looking at homes in the areas I recognized the sound of gun fire and asked my real estate agent. I said that sounds like gun fire, the replied, no that's just fireworks. I followed the sound and found the range. Sucks that the agent lied to me I am sure others fell for their lies.
The RSOs are exposed because they have no means to wash their hands before they eat, touch their face, rub their eyes, etc. The bathrooms are far away and inconvenient. They need to install some plumbing so there can be cleaning facilities at each RSO station. I don't think the lead is in the air.
Post by: Bota-CS1 on October 26, 2022, 09:11:27 AM
I thought last year or maybe the year before they shut down the range for a while so they can "rake out" all the lead from the berms.
Or am I imagining it happened. Could've swear they shut it down a couple of weeks to do that. I mean yeah, the berms accumulate lead debris again but what are the chances? Like winning MegaBucks.
IIRC that was only a temporary measure with more fill going in to the backstop and the overhang/eyebrow in UH colors being added as well.
Post by: aieahound on October 26, 2022, 09:50:45 AM
He’s an ass and he’s looking for any angle to a real pain in ours.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 26, 2022, 10:57:02 AM
If the neighbors that are complaining of potential lead poisoning wanted to prove their case they could just get tested. It's just an opportunity to shut down the range because they didn't do their due diligence when they purchased their home to know the range was there. When I was looking at homes in the areas I recognized the sound of gun fire and asked my real estate agent. I said that sounds like gun fire, the replied, no that's just fireworks. I followed the sound and found the range. Sucks that the agent lied to me I am sure others fell for their lies.
The RSOs are exposed because they have no means to wash their hands before they eat, touch their face, rub their eyes, etc. The bathrooms are far away and inconvenient. They need to install some plumbing so there can be cleaning facilities at each RSO station. I don't think the lead is in the air.
Also add in there is usually no soap provided by the C&C. The soap that I've seen was donated by a shooter.
Post by: robtmc on October 26, 2022, 11:05:24 AM
It's just an opportunity to shut down the range because they didn't do their due diligence when they purchased their home to know the range was there.Scratch the surface and you will find Knudsen hard at work to shut it all down.
You do not think he just gave up after his magic bullet scheme failed?
Post by: macsak on October 26, 2022, 11:31:04 AM
possible, but not likely
Anyone want to bet Knutson is getting his info from lurking on this forum ?
He’s an ass and he’s looking for any angle to a real pain in ours.
Post by: changemyoil66 on October 26, 2022, 11:40:05 AM
Anyone want to bet Knutson is getting his info from lurking on this forum ?
They are always reading this forum...
Post by: drck1000 on October 26, 2022, 11:57:28 AM
They are always reading this forum..."""they"""
Post by: 96707 on October 26, 2022, 11:58:33 AM
Post by: Rocky on October 26, 2022, 12:17:55 PM
“But I will tell you this folks, I made inquiries numerous times to the parks department to find out what’s going on because this is the only publicly owned shooting range, this is where our responsible gun owners have an opportunity to use their weapons,” he added.
Perhaps we need more "publicly owned shooting range(s)"
This would reduce the concentrations of lead. :D
Post by: powder monkey on October 26, 2022, 12:20:17 PM
Post by: Bota-CS1 on October 26, 2022, 01:08:20 PM
“But I will tell you this folks, I made inquiries numerous times to the parks department to find out what’s going on because this is the only publicly owned shooting range, this is where our responsible gun owners have an opportunity to use their weapons,” he added.
Perhaps we need more "publicly owned shooting range(s)"
This would reduce the concentrations of lead. :D
Here here! We need a 2nd public range that’s more centrally located.
Post by: 96707 on October 26, 2022, 01:45:21 PM
Where did you get your info regarding RSOs lead exposure came from collecting lead and casting?
Reliable witnesses who are close to the matter, but wish to remain anonymous as they fear reprisal.
Post by: powder monkey on October 26, 2022, 02:24:20 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on October 26, 2022, 03:18:37 PM
Here here! We need a 2nd public range that’s more centrally located.
And longer than 100 yards
And a cqb shoot house
And ponies
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XxAuLW5BySk/UGiG57YtCkI/AAAAAAAAIcc/YwMRPVo1hlA/s1600/ArtofTheTacticalCarbinecolored.png)
Post by: robtmc on October 26, 2022, 06:09:34 PM
Perhaps we need more "publicly owned shooting range(s)"Good luck with that.
Some of you will remember the heavy Honolulu presence shutting down our BI range.
On your home turf, expect same 10^4.
Post by: robtmc on October 26, 2022, 06:24:54 PM
And poniesBeing Honolulu, you would likely get bronies and furrys.
Post by: zippz on October 27, 2022, 12:47:04 AM
The neighborhood board and tommy waters need some educating on lead. It's expected to have lead on ranges. Not sure how lead affects ground water, but I assume it doesn't since it's close to the ocean and there is no surface runoff outside of the crater. Not an issue going into the ocean since it'd be very small amounts that are greatly diluted in the ocean. Another analogy is we have military shooting ranges everywhere forever, so I assume ground water contamination is probably not an issue.
Post by: zippz on October 27, 2022, 12:52:08 AM
Post by: QUIETShooter on October 27, 2022, 06:39:00 AM
Sometimes doing it right once and for all is better in the long run. Both economically and for the satisfaction for all.
Maybe that is what is needed here for KHSC. Take the time and expense to do it right. Rake out that lead and refurbish the berms and lanes. Don't do the "bondo over the dent" temporary fix.
That is, if the intent is for safety and getting the range up and running again.
My conspiracy theory radar is again going off the charts.
Post by: aletheuo137 on October 27, 2022, 08:18:46 AM
Spidey senses!
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
Post by: aieahound on October 27, 2022, 12:15:08 PM
we've been talking about this since the beginning of august and he only brought it up this month
possible, but not likely
Maybe I lost my bet.
“HNN first started asking the city about the issue on Sept. 16 after getting a tip from a range employee who reported having elevated levels of lead in their blood.“
Maybe not.
“ This (is something) the city has intentionally ignored because I have been asking since mid-August and have gotten no response,” Knudsen said.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/10/27/after-dodging-questions-city-confirms-several-workers-shooting-range-have-elevated-lead-levels/
No matter either way. Cats out of the bag and Catnutsen is gonna run with it as far as he can.
Hopefully, based on Waters previous comments, they realize we need a public range.
Save Our Range. Or Relocate to Kunia maybe ?
Just hope we’re not like Raceway Park.
Post by: powder monkey on October 27, 2022, 03:26:40 PM
Test result was released about a month after the 16th
Post by: Bota-CS1 on October 31, 2022, 10:12:03 PM
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XxAuLW5BySk/UGiG57YtCkI/AAAAAAAAIcc/YwMRPVo1hlA/s1600/ArtofTheTacticalCarbinecolored.png)
So what pronouns does it go by?
Post by: aletheuo137 on November 06, 2022, 07:56:38 AM
https://rumble.com/v1qqg08-oahus-public-gun-range-is-under-attack.html
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Post by: changemyoil66 on November 06, 2022, 08:33:57 AM
Guess the other indoors not an option for various reasons.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: oldfart on November 06, 2022, 09:04:06 AM
Oahu Public Gun Range is Under Attack=================
https://rumble.com/v1qqg08-oahus-public-gun-range-is-under-attack.html
Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk
I would vote for her
Post by: QUIETShooter on November 06, 2022, 09:10:55 AM
Post by: hvybarrels on November 06, 2022, 01:08:43 PM
Is Hawaii stalling until the legislature gets back into session and our new dictator, oh I mean governor is sworn in?
I have a feeling that the fraud will be so obvious this time that a lot of stuff is not going to get done with the impending scandal
Unfortunately that means the range as well
Post by: ren on November 06, 2022, 05:18:51 PM
yet injuries still continue around Kokohead trail it still remains open
https://www.khon2.com/local-news/youth-injured-on-koko-head-trail-airlifted-to-safety/
Post by: Teichi on November 10, 2022, 02:53:51 PM
Please see the attached request for information we recently submitted on behalf of a Palolo resident, also a registered and concerned fire arm owner/hunter. We understand there is ongoing vendor negotiation regarding scope of work, possible lead poisoning among others due to the discharged bullets in the berm. We understand the concern, being that currently statewide, there are over 25,000 registered fire arms, including law enforcement and certified security officers, per Attorney General’s office.
Thank you for your concern. We have copied in George LaRosa from Dept. of Parks and Recreation (DPR) overseeing the Kokohead District Park, including the Shooting Range. We look forward to DPR’s progress on this matter.
Best regards-
Melvia Kawashima
Community Liaison
Office of Councilmember Calvin K.Y. Say
City and County of Honolulu, District 5
PHONE: (808) 768-5057 / EMAIL: melvia.kawashima@honolulu.gov
530 South King Street, Honolulu, Hawaii 96813
Post by: MrJones on November 10, 2022, 04:05:01 PM
Jones
Post by: QUIETShooter on November 10, 2022, 08:07:40 PM
It’s amazing how hundreds of ranges in the mainland manage lead issues but not here. Also how do competitive shooters shot thousands of rounds a week but manage to stay healthy, ie Jerry Miculek. Lots of shibai.
Jones
Oh yes. All this is BS. My opinion, of course. I say this not out of disrespect to the RO's. I care for their health and hope their blood levels drop to safe levels soon.
The range could have stayed open longer until the proposed berm remediation. They could have operated with less staff (those who don't have elevated levels) and fewer shooting lanes to supervise. Better than closing it completely. Install some portable wash stations for the time being until if and when they want to redesign or renovate the shooting facilities.
This is Hawaii. Everything we do is backwards, sideways, or just plain stupid.
Post by: mrgaf on November 11, 2022, 11:48:49 AM
Oh yes. All this is BS. My opinion, of course. I say this not out of disrespect to the RO's. I care for their health and hope their blood levels drop to safe levels soon.
The range could have stayed open longer until the proposed berm remediation. They could have operated with less staff (those who don't have elevated levels) and fewer shooting lanes to supervise. Better than closing it completely. Install some portable wash stations for the time being until if and when they want to redesign or renovate the shooting facilities.
This is Hawaii. Everything we do is backwards, sideways, or just plain stupid.
Or crooked…. :grrr:
Post by: QUIETShooter on November 11, 2022, 02:45:41 PM
Or crooked…. :grrr:
Yah, dat too. :grrr:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 11, 2022, 03:30:59 PM
Yah, dat too. :grrr:
People who don't have integrity assume all others are the same.
Unfortunately, the ones with integrity and honesty often find themselves at a disadvantage if they are the only ones playing by the rules.
Such is life. Sometimes being right is all you get to be.
They say crime doesn't pay, but then you see people like the Clintons and all the corruption and pay-to-play that's gone on for decades.
Post by: groveler on November 11, 2022, 03:44:37 PM
Or crooked…. :grrr:Our government is selfish, immoral and unethical.
What do you expect?
You guys won't get your range back.
We will never get one.
J. Green and his ilk will make it so.
Buy some land and ignore the system,
or at least make it so impotent( defunded)
That it can't afford to hurt you.
:grrr:
Post by: QUIETShooter on November 11, 2022, 05:52:42 PM
People who don't have integrity assume all others are the same.
Unfortunately, the ones with integrity and honesty often find themselves at a disadvantage if they are the only ones playing by the rules.
Such is life. Sometimes being right is all you get to be.
They say crime doesn't pay, but then you see people like the Clintons and all the corruption and pay-to-play that's gone on for decades.
Very few things make me grit my teeth until they are on the verge of breaking than thinking of the Clintons and what they got away with. HRC more so than Bill but not by much. :grrr:
Agree about integrity and honesty. In politics it seems to be way down the list or nonexistent. But I still believe in them and look for them in the candidates.
Nobody is perfect but striving for these virtues is what is important to me.
Post by: Akubone1 on November 14, 2022, 07:55:40 AM
Post by: ren on November 14, 2022, 12:30:37 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on November 14, 2022, 12:47:57 PM
The Mayor is not happy with the CCW ruling. He is the senior City executive that is responsible for the City parks including the range....
Cry me a river, Mr. Mayor.
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 14, 2022, 01:31:45 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 14, 2022, 01:35:42 PM
The Mayor is not happy with the CCW ruling. He is the senior City executive that is responsible for the City parks including the range....
I'm sure there are more of us "not happy" with the unconstitutional and strict gun laws Hawaii imposes on good, law abiding people.
Most dictators are not "happy" when the population is armed.
Post by: aieahound on November 15, 2022, 06:34:10 PM
Post by: Gordyf on November 16, 2022, 06:39:10 PM
The Mayor is not happy with the CCW ruling. He is the senior City executive that is responsible for the City parks including the range....
Yeah, and I voted for him too :grrr:
Be hard pressed to do it again
Post by: mrgaf on November 17, 2022, 07:53:18 AM
Yeah, and I voted for him too :grrr:
Be hard pressed to do it again
Me too but not again! :-\
Post by: zippz on November 17, 2022, 08:41:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/5XHFo77.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/aZE6nVl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iVFRGdt.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NCHcEqx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4YRXS6p.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ps4NHPJ.jpg)
Post by: QUIETShooter on November 17, 2022, 08:53:54 AM
Yeah, and I voted for him too :grrr:
Be hard pressed to do it again
Me too. Couldn't find myself to vote for the other guy. Plus Rick brings a new face and supposedly fresh outlook to the office. Well, that's what I was thinking at the time.
Wanted to know how Rick felt about 2a but he was pretty elusive if not silent about the issue. But he did hint on gun control and public safety a lot.
I thought he was going to be a maverick mayor but doesn't look like it.
Post by: zippz on November 17, 2022, 09:16:54 AM
Caldwell tended towards the progun and hunting side, so you probably wouldn't see the "sensitive places" bill brought up by him, and range work would be happening now if he was still in office.
Post by: ren on November 17, 2022, 05:56:52 PM
Range closed indefinitely
Honolulu Mayor Rick Blangiardi told Hawaii News Now there’s no timeline for reopening the range.
“We’re not going to let people back there unless it’s safe,” he said.
He added:
“I don’t know when it’s going to reopen to be honest with you. There’s a lot that has to go into that because that had been going on for a long time with respect to use of the range and what was compiled there and what has to be cleaned up.”
Wong, the former range officer, said he has no interest in suing the city but chose to speak out because he wants to see the lead issue abated and the public park reopened as soon as possible.
He said it’s not right to permanently close Oahu’s only public range for reasons that could have been prevented.
“To have the range shut down, it’s an infringement of rights,” Wong said.
The city did confirm it has hired necessary the environmental consultants.
“We are awaiting the recommendations from the above-mentioned consultant before proceeding with the berm renovation project,” the city said, in a statement.
“We understand the environmental concerns of the neighboring community, and also recognize the shooting complex’s importance to the local firearms community, as this location is the only public shooting range on Oahu. We appreciate their patience while we work with these advisors to make necessary improvements to ensure the shooting complex can once again operate safely upon its reopening.”
Meanwhile, city officials say all Koko Head Shooting Complex workers have been reassigned to work at other parks.
Health officials say casual range users shouldn’t worry too much about lead exposure if they follow safety guidelines.
Those include:
Washing your hands and face with soap and water after shooting.
Changing clothes before you leave the range.
And washing those items separately from everything else.
It’s also advised not to eat, drink or smoke while shooting.
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 17, 2022, 06:09:41 PM
Health officials say casual range users shouldn’t worry too much about lead exposure if they follow safety guidelines.
Those include:
Washing your hands and face with soap and water after shooting.
Changing clothes before you leave the range.
And washing those items separately from everything else.
It’s also advised not to eat, drink or smoke while shooting.[/i]
This is 2022. How long has the range operated? Why have these lead/environmental issues only become a problem AFTER they have become a ptoblem?
In other words, do you wait to fill up your car or truck AFTER you run out of gas? Or do you know that is something you should PREVENT by stopping while you still have gas in the tank?
"We appreciate their patience while we work with these advisors to make necessary improvements to ensure the shooting complex can once again operate safely upon its reopening.”
Seems to me the current situation demonstrates the range was NOT operating safely before because there are "necessary improvements" needed. Just because it was open doesn't mean it was safe. The levels of lead in the RSOs is evidence of that.
Post by: Gordyf on November 17, 2022, 06:19:25 PM
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/11/18/city-has-known-years-about-lead-concerns-shooting-range-did-little-warn-workers-danger/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/11/18/city-has-known-years-about-lead-concerns-shooting-range-did-little-warn-workers-danger/)
Range closed indefinitely
Honolulu Mayor Rick Blangiardi told Hawaii News Now there’s no timeline for reopening the range.
“We’re not going to let people back there unless it’s safe,” he said.
He added:
“I don’t know when it’s going to reopen to be honest with you. There’s a lot that has to go into that because that had been going on for a long time with respect to use of the range and what was compiled there and what has to be cleaned up.”
Wong, the former range officer, said he has no interest in suing the city but chose to speak out because he wants to see the lead issue abated and the public park reopened as soon as possible.
He said it’s not right to permanently close Oahu’s only public range for reasons that could have been prevented.
“To have the range shut down, it’s an infringement of rights,” Wong said.
The city did confirm it has hired necessary the environmental consultants.
“We are awaiting the recommendations from the above-mentioned consultant before proceeding with the berm renovation project,” the city said, in a statement.
“We understand the environmental concerns of the neighboring community, and also recognize the shooting complex’s importance to the local firearms community, as this location is the only public shooting range on Oahu. We appreciate their patience while we work with these advisors to make necessary improvements to ensure the shooting complex can once again operate safely upon its reopening.”
Meanwhile, city officials say all Koko Head Shooting Complex workers have been reassigned to work at other parks.
Health officials say casual range users shouldn’t worry too much about lead exposure if they follow safety guidelines.
Those include:
Washing your hands and face with soap and water after shooting.
Changing clothes before you leave the range.
And washing those items separately from everything else.
It’s also advised not to eat, drink or smoke while shooting.
Valid samples of airborne lead can't be taken unless the range is fully operational. Anything else is peeing in the wind. Anyone tries to tell you different is full of ...
As for the concerns of the neighboring community, seems to me the range was there first?
Yes, the casual user should not have too worry too much about exposure. Employees maybe depending on the results of the airborne lead sampling. Simple measures are available to mitigate.
Washing up and not eating or drinking while handling lead is good protocol.
Post by: QUIETShooter on November 17, 2022, 07:30:59 PM
I don't even think the burner is turned on. :rofl:
Post by: ren on November 17, 2022, 07:37:14 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on November 17, 2022, 07:45:33 PM
If it was a significant number they would splash it all around like the “background residential level”
This is all anti gun bullshit
Post by: powder monkey on November 17, 2022, 08:34:36 PM
HIPA
Post by: zippz on November 17, 2022, 08:37:21 PM
Post by: ren on November 17, 2022, 08:52:13 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 17, 2022, 09:13:21 PM
^^^^
HIPA
Data that's unassociated with identifiable individuals can be publicized. They can provide minimum, maximum, average and median aggregated amounts as well as the acceptable thresholds.
Post by: wirecounter on November 17, 2022, 09:22:48 PM
Keep this in mind come Mayor election timeThat is in two years. F these peeps!
Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
Post by: powder monkey on November 17, 2022, 10:52:09 PM
Post by: QUIETShooter on November 18, 2022, 06:09:41 AM
Almost seems like they wanted the inevitable to happen.
Kinda reminds me of my old company. Some old vehicles needed to be replaced but mgt. said no. When requests for maintenance of these vehicles were requested they were turned down. So eventually the vehicles broke down and a request for new vehicles was requested.
Mgt. said no. After many concerned consequent requests, mgt. said there are more pressing issues and we will but these requests on the backburner.
Like I mentioned earlier, mgt. never turned the burner on.
This range re-opening is definitely on the backburner of the City Parks and Recreation Dept. and the office of the Mayor.
I don't even think the burner is turned on. :rofl:
Post by: Rocky on November 18, 2022, 08:41:27 AM
Why have these lead/environmental issues only become a problem AFTER they have become a ptoblem?The real "problem" is . ::)
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 18, 2022, 09:39:53 AM
Seems like the City knew about the neglect, lack of maintenance, lack of safety protocols, etc. etc. for years but did little to nothing to mitigate it.
Almost seems like they wanted the inevitable to happen.
Kinda reminds me of my old company. Some old vehicles needed to be replaced but mgt. said no. When requests for maintenance of these vehicles were requested they were turned down. So eventually the vehicles broke down and a request for new vehicles was requested.
Mgt. said no. After many concerned consequent requests, mgt. said there are more pressing issues and we will but these requests on the backburner.
Like I mentioned earlier, mgt. never turned the burner on.
Anyone who's worked in government and experienced the End-of-Fiscal-Year spending sprees understands. There's never money for things people need to do their jobs 10-11 months out of the year. However, somehow a miracle happens every August where training, computer hardware and software, office supplies, cool electronics, and other, more extravagant expenditures get funding approval.
If the money isn't spent, they run the risk of a budget cut -- so every dollar they refused to appropriate all year long for necessities is spent on anything and everything just to get rid of the funds.
I learned long ago that the money is always there for the things you & the company need. It's a matter of priority and smart planning. No big secret there.
Post by: ren on November 18, 2022, 03:10:11 PM
https://en-range.com/ (https://en-range.com/)
Post by: ren on November 18, 2022, 05:58:04 PM
At the Wednesday meeting, Commissioner Carrie Okinaga seemed alarmed by how quickly permits might be issued, and questioned police brass about it.
“Is it like a year or two years? Or two months?” she asked.
When told it would be more like a month, she said “Wow. OK.”
She pointed out that permits would likely be out before the city could pass legislation to control where firearms could be worn.
Post by: luckydog1 on November 21, 2022, 01:31:57 AM
Post by: MrJones on November 21, 2022, 05:59:38 AM
Jones
Post by: QUIETShooter on November 21, 2022, 06:15:24 AM
Read recently the budget to renovate City Hall bldg. is 100 million. So each city hall worker from Mayor to clerk is worth infinitely more than the average firearm owner. Add insult to injury there are still bathrooms at Kapiolani Park with no toilet paper signs--bring your own, but more than enough funds to re do city hall. Guess the general public gets the shaft again.
Yep. And in different ways they deserve it.
Those who voted for the same old, same old.
Those who felt their vote didn't matter and said f-it I won't vote.
Those who voted for change that will unfairly suffer.
Hawaii's government shafts everybody equally, even those who voted for them.
Post by: drck1000 on November 21, 2022, 07:30:03 AM
Read recently the budget to renovate City Hall bldg. is 100 million. So each city hall worker from Mayor to clerk is worth infinitely more than the average firearm owner. Add insult to injury there are still bathrooms at Kapiolani Park with no toilet paper signs--bring your own, but more than enough funds to re do city hall. Guess the general public gets the shaft again.How about Alyson Blair cover that story?
Post by: groveler on November 21, 2022, 03:24:14 PM
This is 2022. How long has the range operated? Why have these lead/environmental issues only become a problem AFTER they have become a ptoblem?I'm 67 years old.
In other words, do you wait to fill up your car or truck AFTER you run out of gas? Or do you know that is something you should PREVENT by stopping while you still have gas in the tank?
"We appreciate their patience while we work with these advisors to make necessary improvements to ensure the shooting complex can once again operate safely upon its reopening.”
Seems to me the current situation demonstrates the range was NOT operating safely before because there are "necessary improvements" needed. Just because it was open doesn't mean it was safe. The levels of lead in the RSOs is evidence of that.
Been shooting since I was 8 or so.
I built boats and have been exposed to more nasty shit
than you know.
I'd rather live as free man than some pussy listening to some woman or soy boy
telling me what to do.
5 extra years in a nursing home is not quality of life.
blowing the shit out of targets is.
.5 MOA
:thumbsup:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 21, 2022, 03:30:52 PM
I'm 67 years old.
Been shooting since I was 8 or so.
I built boats and have been exposed to more nasty shit
than you know.
I'd rather live as free man than some pussy listening to some woman or soy boy
telling me what to do.
5 extra years in a nursing home is not quality of life.
blowing the shit out of targets is.
.5 MOA
:thumbsup:
I'm simply calling out the inconsistencies in the statements made regarding safety and why the improvements weren't "necessary" before now.
The timing is suspect -- given the overlap with the Bruen decision and Hawaii's "may issue" scheme being demolished.
You do you. That has nothing to do with the range, why it's closed, or when it may open again.
Post by: drck1000 on November 21, 2022, 03:37:03 PM
I'm 67 years old.Novice. . . :P
Been shooting since I was 8 or so.
I built boats and have been exposed to more nasty shit
than you know.
I'd rather live as free man than some pussy listening to some woman or soy boy
telling me what to do.
5 extra years in a nursing home is not quality of life.
blowing the shit out of targets is.
.5 MOA
:thumbsup:
But with an AK, that's impressive. . . ;D
I keed, I keed :rofl:
Post by: groveler on November 21, 2022, 04:29:30 PM
I'm simply calling out the inconsistencies in the statements made regarding safety and why the improvements weren't "necessary" before now.Your range is not opening again.
The timing is suspect -- given the overlap with the Bruen decision and Hawaii's "may issue" scheme being demolished.
You do you. That has nothing to do with the range, why it's closed, or when it may open again.
Y'all are too "soft".
You are dealing with the most vile people ever created.
The kind that think they know what is BEST for you.
:love:
Post by: groveler on November 21, 2022, 04:31:59 PM
Novice. . . :PAK ..... no.
But with an AK, that's impressive. . . ;D
I keed, I keed :rofl:
M14 clone yes.
100 meters.
7mm @300 meters
can do also.
Good anti shake drugs.
VA issued.
:thumbsup:
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 21, 2022, 04:36:14 PM
Your range is not opening again.I think they think they know what's best for THEMSELVES. They merely try to sell it as being in everyone's best interest.
Y'all are too "soft".
You are dealing with the most vile people ever created.
The kind that think they know what is BEST for you.
:love:
Post by: drck1000 on November 21, 2022, 04:46:55 PM
AK ..... no.I will hopefully be out shooting again in about a month. Mostly 100 yards. When I stopped load development with my 6.5 cm, I was chasing 0.25 MOA. Consistently, I would say I was closer to 0.30-0.35 MOA.
M14 clone yes.
100 meters.
7mm @300 meters
can do also.
Good anti shake drugs.
VA issued.
:thumbsup:
Post by: macsak on November 21, 2022, 07:41:35 PM
I will hopefully be out shooting again in about a month. Mostly 100 yards. When I stopped load development with my 6.5 cm, I was chasing 0.25 MOA. Consistently, I would say I was closer to 0.30-0.35 MOA.
Post by: ren on November 22, 2022, 08:46:07 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on November 22, 2022, 08:59:54 PM
I'm simply calling out the inconsistencies in the statements made regarding safety and why the improvements weren't "necessary" before now.
The timing is suspect -- given the overlap with the Bruen decision and Hawaii's "may issue" scheme being demolished.
This is what I was trying to say ... why hasn't anyone looked into this problem until now?
SCOTUS decision? CCW licensing? Avalanche of unconstitutional gun laws about to fall?
Quote
HNN Investigates also uncovered documents that show the city has been aware of leadhttps://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/11/23/doh-now-involved-probe-into-possible-lead-contamination-oahus-only-public-shooting-range/
contamination at the range for at least two decades, but did little to protect its workers
or educate them about the potential danger.
No accountability ... no responsibility. Just promises and SURPRISE when decades-old problems are "suddenly" identified as a health threat.
Post by: zippz on November 30, 2022, 12:30:57 PM
Parks Director Thielen said
1. Intent is to keep the range open and to get it open as soon as possible once all the work is completed.
2. Air lead testing was conducted by the EPA showing safe levels. Lead is heavy so doesn't travel far in the wind.
3. Ground water contamination is not an issue since lead is contained on the range and is not over an aquafer.
4. The EPA allows for lead contamination on a shooting range wheras other places, like schools and other parks, must remove or mitigate lead contamination.
5. Lead poisoning was probably due to lead from the firing line (I'm guessing primers and residue coming out of the barrel.
6. They hired a lead expert locally to go over some stuff and provide range staff with 4 days of training.
7. A range consultant they previously used was hired and will do a range inspection in December and provide more guidance.
8. No range work has been done so far, they are waiting for guidance from the range consultant.
9. They are looking at other range improvements based on the prior range masterplans and recommendations.
10. They will work with us to "adopt the park" so volunteers can repair and improve the range. However it's a long process due to liability and requires certifications, licensing, insurance, and other stuff. The Kokonut Coalition took 1.5 years of work to get approval from the city to fix the Koko Head stairs.
My thoughts. Laura Theilen was anti-gun in the legislature, but seems to be working to get the range reopened. The NB seems satisfied that the range will be safe from lead and ricochets after work has been completed. Knudsen asked many questions about safety and stated "the gun community thinks I want to shutdown the range, but my intent is to keep it open while ensuring it's safe." I didn't see anything in his questions or demeanor to say otherwise.
Had about 10 of us present and some testified and talked to Thielen. I asked that the back half, Hanauma side, of the range be opened as soon as possible due to CCW testing and it doesn't seem to have problems. They will wait to see what the range consultant says. I also brought up policies could mitigate a lot of the lead poisoning issues like handwashing stations closer to the firing line, no eating near the firing line, signage, and cleanliness and she agreed.
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 30, 2022, 12:40:23 PM
Got some updates on the KHSC rennovations at the Koko Head Neighborhood Board meeting.
Parks Director Thielen said
1. Intent is to keep the range open and to get it open as soon as possible once all the work is completed.
2. Air lead testing was conducted by the EPA showing safe levels. Lead is heavy so doesn't travel far in the wind.
3. Ground water contamination is not an issue since lead is contained on the range and is not over an aquafer.
4. The EPA allows for lead contamination on a shooting range wheras other places, like schools and other parks, must remove or mitigate lead contamination.
5. Lead poisoning was probably due to lead from the firing line (I'm guessing primers and residue coming out of the barrel.
6. They hired a lead expert locally to go over some stuff and provide range staff with 4 days of training.
7. A range consultant they previously used was hired and will do a range inspection in December and provide more guidance.
8. No range work has been done so far, they are waiting for guidance from the range consultant.
9. They are looking at other range improvements based on the prior range masterplans and recommendations.
10. They will work with us to "adopt the park" so volunteers can repair and improve the range. However it's a long process due to liability and requires certifications, licensing, insurance, and other stuff. The Kokonut Coalition took 1.5 years of work to get approval from the city to fix the Koko Head stairs.
My thoughts. Laura Theilen was anti-gun in the legislature, but seems to be working to get the range reopened. The NB seems satisfied that the range will be safe from lead and ricochets after work has been completed. Knudsen asked many questions about safety and stated "the gun community thinks I want to shutdown the range, but my intent is to keep it open while ensuring it's safe." I didn't see anything in his questions or demeanor to say otherwise.
Had about 10 of us come up and testify and talk to Thielen. I asked that the back half, Hanauma side, of the range be opened as soon as possible due to CCW testing and it doesn't seem to have problems. They will wait to see what the range consultant says. I also brought up policies could mitigate a lot of the lead poisoning issues like handwashing stations closer to the firing line, no eating near the firing line, signage, and cleanliness and she agreed.
Thank you for talking to her and all those who were there.
Post by: stangzilla on November 30, 2022, 12:57:59 PM
Thank you for talking to her and all those who were there.
+1
thanks, zippz. appreciate all your hard work :shaka:
Post by: QUIETShooter on November 30, 2022, 01:11:24 PM
I like the adopt a park idea. I would be more than willing to volunteer in the maintenance and cleanup.
Such a wonderful upstart in hope after all the negative hoopla that was flying around. I blame myself for part of this negativity. :(
Anyway, hoping for the best. Thanks again.
Post by: changemyoil66 on November 30, 2022, 01:28:04 PM
Amazing and wonderful news to hear. Thank you, zippz. :shaka:
I like the adopt a park idea. I would be more than willing to volunteer in the maintenance and cleanup.
Such a wonderful upstart in hope after all the negative hoopla that was flying around. I blame myself for part of this negativity. :(
Anyway, hoping for the best. Thanks again.
I know a few people who bring hand soap for the restroom since there is often none. This was pre covid too.
Post by: stangzilla on November 30, 2022, 01:39:29 PM
I know a few people who bring hand soap for the restroom since there is often none. This was pre covid too.
I am one of those people
also bring for the silly side, since I go there a lot and there's a sink right there
soap is relatively cheap, so no biggie in donating every once in a while. I always have a full bottle of soap in my range bag
Post by: Rocky on November 30, 2022, 02:57:11 PM
We wanted to rebuild / fix rifle benches, get water running at upper water and lower ends, upper bathroom working, electrical work etc...
Got shut down due to "liability" I think it was.
Most I ever got to do was pressure wash both bathrooms for SSF or was it Hunter Ed day.
Whatever.
Thought we should paint them as long as they were clean but was NG. :-\
Post by: robtmc on November 30, 2022, 03:41:57 PM
Knudsen asked many questions about safety and stated "the gun community thinks I want to shutdown the range, but my intent is to keep it open while ensuring it's safe."Bullshit, that SOB has been trying to shut it down for years.
He was a prime "helper" is the campaign to shut down getting a BI range built. Who else but an anti firearm fanatic would care about an island 200 miles away?
Post by: sa594 on November 30, 2022, 09:47:11 PM
Post by: DocMercy on December 04, 2022, 09:08:38 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hawaii/comments/zbq614/no_airborne_lead_contamination_detected_at/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Hawaii/comments/zbq614/no_airborne_lead_contamination_detected_at/)
What is the next excuse they will use for not re-opening? I know the answer. The hotel and real estate lobby want the land to build more high priced buildings on Oahu. Bad enough that the median housing price is destined to cross one million dolla's soon. Plenty of dolla's around da range.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UjY_27HlXw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UjY_27HlXw)
Post by: robtmc on December 23, 2022, 10:58:46 AM
Post by: ren on December 23, 2022, 11:22:55 AM
How are y'all doing getting your only public range back?
Greg is planning his next move...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PNHKMSwqXE&t=44s
Post by: Rhed on December 23, 2022, 01:50:57 PM
Post by: Akubone1 on December 23, 2022, 03:36:03 PM
We need to wait and see. There was a news report and the city claims they want the range opened up asap. Hopefully 1st quarter 2023.
Post by: powder monkey on December 23, 2022, 06:18:34 PM
Post by: hvybarrels on December 23, 2022, 06:22:40 PM
Post by: powder monkey on December 23, 2022, 06:36:01 PM
I heard they’ve held meetings with the consultants and there’s recommendations proposed to the city. At the end of the day the land can only be used as a park. After talking with more people who knew the history of the lease, I think it would be astronomical to safely clean and repurpose the area to be something other than a range.
We need to wait and see. There was a news report and the city claims they want the range opened up asap. Hopefully 1st quarter 2023.
Now if they can find the funding.
Post by: Rhed on December 23, 2022, 07:33:49 PM
Post by: Flapp_Jackson on December 23, 2022, 07:42:59 PM
Maybe the Dems here can get funding from the Omnibus package. I mean s**t, they gonna spend 1.7 trillion dollar tax money on stupid s**t, including gun control.
You mean you aren't thrilled having to donate to gun rights groups in order to fight anti-gun legislation and "rules" which your taxes are also paying for?
:geekdanc: :wacko:
Post by: ren on December 23, 2022, 07:49:32 PM
Now if they can find the funding.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/12/23/oahu-homeowners-balk-after-property-tax-assessments-soar-20-30/ (https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/12/23/oahu-homeowners-balk-after-property-tax-assessments-soar-20-30/)
Blangiardi could use an acting coach
Post by: Rhed on December 23, 2022, 08:43:25 PM
You mean you aren't thrilled having to donate to gun rights groups in order to fight anti-gun legislation and "rules" which your taxes are also paying for?
:geekdanc: :wacko:
Where do I sign up for donation? Maybe I’m donating to the wrong gun right groups
Post by: randay on December 24, 2022, 04:04:54 AM
Can anyone tell the difference between illegal fireworks and gun shots? Sometimes I have difficulty with that.
I can tell. Ive never had a problem, 100% can tell the difference I will bet anyone 1 million dollars that they can tell the difference 100% of the time too. gun shots always hurt more.
Post by: QUIETShooter on December 24, 2022, 07:50:46 AM
Can anyone tell the difference between illegal fireworks and gun shots? Sometimes I have difficulty with that.
With the range closed maybe there will be both sounds coming out of our skies this NYE.
Most of the sounds from aerial fireworks reminds me of being at Koko Head when they are busy.
When frustrated, shoot in the air.....
Post by: Kalikikopa on December 24, 2022, 11:11:58 AM
When frustrated, shoot in the air.....
POTUS approved
https://youtu.be/oOpj-BEPnSg
Post by: drck1000 on December 24, 2022, 11:21:12 AM
SNIPI heard similar from a wise (re:older) friend who had been involved with 2a in Hawaii for longer than I’ve been alive. I haven’t been able to find info on my own, but something like the agreement of the lease/use is for shooting. That if the use isn’t that, the property goes back to the Estate that owns the land. So essentially no sense for other than maintain as park for shooting.
After talking with more people who knew the history of the lease, I think it would be astronomical to safely clean and repurpose the area to be something other than a range.
In any case, hope things get ironed out soon and we can get back to enjoying KHSC.
Post by: powder monkey on January 05, 2023, 11:10:24 AM
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 05, 2023, 12:17:40 PM
Post by: groveler on January 05, 2023, 01:39:22 PM
Word is HPD also wants the range to reopen ASAP as many of their guys cannot train since it closed. "We cannot protect you" unless the range opens.You have to be kidding us. Cops can go practice and shoot wherever they want.
On the BI a ranch lets them use an area. All us locals know where it is.
You could wipe out most the police force on "Traning day" if so inclined.
Police cannot protect. They merely clean up the mess.
Protection is locking up people proven to be threats.
You can't stop the first crime, but you can prevent the second.
:wave:
Post by: powder monkey on January 05, 2023, 03:38:29 PM
Word is HPD also wants the range to reopen ASAP as many of their guys cannot train since it closed. "We cannot protect you" unless the range opens.
HPD Looks like they can pound sand. DPR has the hammer.
Post by: Rocky on January 05, 2023, 04:25:54 PM
Word is HPD also wants the range to reopen ASAP as many of their guys cannot train since it closed. "We cannot protect you" unless the range opens.
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=484.0
Post by: QUIETShooter on January 05, 2023, 05:05:52 PM
Yeah, right. ::) You think that is foremost in your mind when you draw your weapon? Don't think so. You're thinking of yourself. Nobody else.
Don't blame you. I would do the same thing. If I was a cop.
I think differently when my loved ones are in danger.
So stop the bullcrap and just push to open the range like the rest of us.
Post by: changemyoil66 on January 05, 2023, 06:24:42 PM
https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=484.0Its not enough.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: Rhed on January 10, 2023, 08:23:46 AM
Word is HPD also wants the range to reopen ASAP as many of their guys cannot train since it closed. "We cannot protect you" unless the range opens.This is so true.. Had family dinner last night. My niece and her boyfriend both in HPD said it’s been a controversial thing in the HPD. They really don’t have a range to practice at. Even there specialists (swat and such) have to practice on their own. So most go to KHSC. They don’t allowed them to use the range at the academy. Well that sucks!
Post by: stangzilla on January 11, 2023, 09:01:24 AM
any updates on kokohead re-opening?
I would like to go to a meeting and ask myself but I'm always working at the time
Post by: robtmc on January 11, 2023, 09:21:04 AM
anybody go the latest HI Kai neighborhood board meeting?Knudsen was there, for sure.
any updates on kokohead re-opening?
I would like to go to a meeting and ask myself but I'm always working at the time
Post by: groveler on January 11, 2023, 11:24:09 AM
This is so true.. Had family dinner last night. My niece and her boyfriend both in HPD said it’s been a controversial thing in the HPD. They really don’t have a range to practice at. Even there specialists (swat and such) have to practice on their own. So most go to KHSC. They don’t allowed them to use the range at the academy. Well that sucks!"They don’t allowed them to use the range at the academy. Well that sucks!"
perhaps it is because they are unsafe firearms users?
When I was a kid we went to the long Beach CA police range all the time.
But in those days people wanted their kids to learn how to shoot and be safe
with guns , a foreign concept to modern "Blue" states, like Hawaii.
:grrr:
Post by: zippz on January 11, 2023, 01:13:31 PM
"They don’t allowed them to use the range at the academy. Well that sucks!"I asked if we could do the CCW testing at HPD's range and was told the range would exceed it's capacity. Not sure why that is a problem. It'll cost more to replace filters and more maintenance, but that's not insurmountable.
perhaps it is because they are unsafe firearms users?
When I was a kid we went to the long Beach CA police range all the time.
But in those days people wanted their kids to learn how to shoot and be safe
with guns , a foreign concept to modern "Blue" states, like Hawaii.
:grrr:
Other issue is the police indoor range is "lead free" ammo only. More expensive ammo.
Post by: ren on January 13, 2023, 09:13:49 PM
Post by: hk45c on January 14, 2023, 01:58:43 AM
updates?
Parks and Rec Instagram had an update
?igshid=NDk5N2NlZjQ=
Quote
The Koko Head Shooting Complex is scheduled to remain closed through February 2023.
Following consultations with the firearm range consultant, a timeline of physical improvements is being developed in order to safely reopen the facility.
The specifics of this timeline will be announced once those dates are confirmed.
Currently, the Honolulu Department of Parks and Recreation is working on internal and external signage for the facility while updating administrative policies governing the complex's operation, including additional training for complex staff.
Mahalo to the firearms community for their continued patience and understanding while we work to make these necessary fixes to this popular facility.
Post by: stangzilla on January 14, 2023, 08:01:45 AM
Parks and Rec Instagram had an update?igshid=NDk5N2NlZjQ=
Thank for the info :shaka:
Still sounds like they draggin' their ass
Wtf takes so long???
Post by: hk45c on January 14, 2023, 09:52:27 AM
Thank for the info :shaka:
Still sounds like they draggin' their ass
Wtf takes so long???
Typical in Hawaii in my opinion so I don’t read anything into it. At least they didn’t say it’s permanently closed.
Post by: QUIETShooter on January 14, 2023, 09:54:28 AM
Thank for the info :shaka:
Still sounds like they draggin' their ass
Wtf takes so long???
Dragging A$$ seems like a pre-requisite in Hawaii government. Or looking the other way until somebody says something.
Then when somebody or something comes to public light, the "drag a$$" phenomenon takes effect. (Can you say CCW? :rofl:)
Sorry for being so negative.
Thank you, hk45c for the update :thumbsup:
Post by: zippz on January 14, 2023, 04:41:18 PM
Thank for the info :shaka:
Still sounds like they draggin' their ass
Wtf takes so long???
Government bureaucracy.. shouldn't be a surprise
Contracts. Unions. Permits. Studies. Environmental. Etc.
Post by: mrgaf on January 14, 2023, 05:11:15 PM
Post by: ren on January 16, 2023, 07:54:16 PM
Post by: Mod on January 16, 2023, 08:40:47 PM
Post by: Craig B on January 17, 2023, 10:15:50 AM
Should turn KHSC into the new dump since contaminated with lead. Should make one new range down Nanakuli.
Would be nice to have a range on the leeward coast.
Craig B
Post by: stangzilla on January 17, 2023, 10:33:23 AM
would be nice to have 2 public ranges but with all the anti gun lawmakers here, 2 ranges are not probable
Post by: Drakiir84 on January 17, 2023, 10:52:35 AM
Post by: hk45c on January 17, 2023, 01:25:04 PM
Had an interview with KITV 4 this morning and the reporter said someone from C&C told her they were planning to open the range next month, at least the shooting bay portion. This was the first I've heard of anything. Can anyone verify or did anyone hear the same?
If this were true I would expect the work to have started already to cleanup and refurbish the berm. Has anyone checked lately if they started working.
Post by: Akubone1 on January 17, 2023, 03:52:55 PM