2aHawaii
General Topics => Strategies and Tactics => Topic started by: Defend Hawaii on December 25, 2010, 12:10:09 PM
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Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, Part One (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s#)
Proof that Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world, Part Two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_s66wTg#)
Good videos that EVERYONE can learn from Police included
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Edit:
I have to apologize.
Got on my nerve there for a minute.
Great Vids, however I just don't see how it shows CCW is a bad thing. Just shows CCW holders need to train hard to be effective.
If anything, at the least, they had a chance to do something besides being slaughtered like sheep. :)
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For what it's worth that video was biased.
1) People who never CCW'd before v. an NRA instructor "gunman"
2) The "gunman" KNEW who was carrying.
3) The CCW person ALWAYS sat in the same chair, in the same location: front & center.
In real life, that would never happen.
I understand you hate CCW for anyone but yourself and LEO but you aren't going to change anyone's minds here nor will you find someone to agree with you. Go somewhere else where people do agree with you. Go be with your kind.
Merry Christmas!
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Old news, from a bias "news" channel. You mean to say, untrained college kids can't win in a gunfight against trained NRA instructors in an ambush situation when the shooters already have them singled out? When they're sitting front and center in the middle of class, wearing baIggy clothes that snags on their holester? In related news, the sky is also blue, and the grass is also green, and CCW is coming to Hawaii wether you like it or not. :rofl:
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You keep talking about being against concealed carry, but you haven't commented on open carry. I assume your stance is the same? Even though "bear" in the 2nd amendment clearly means "to carry?" Yet in Hawaii, we don't have a provision to carry ANYTHING to defend ourselves.
The video (and yourself) acknowledges that bad things can happen even when the police are carrying. So what's your solution? NO good guys can carry? Just the criminals? Because even with a complete ban, the criminals would still have guns. And even if they didn't, people just revert to using other weapons. History shows us this: before there were guns, they used rocks and sticks, then swords and longbows. As Heavies previously pointed out, people are trusted with countless other objects (which generally cause more injuries and deaths than guns; e.g., cars) daily, yet you don't seem too worried about regulating that stuff. Or what about cigarettes? They kill WAAAAY more people than guns every day in this country, yet I don't see you clamoring for more government regulation or a ban on tobacco products. While I believe that I understand the root of your concern about guns, your argument is nonsensical because you are ignoring other issues that cause far more death and misery with less "return on investment" in lieu of something that has been PROVEN to save lives and kills FAR fewer lives per year.
In regards to this specific video:
1) The CCW holder saved lives. Period. Perhaps not their own, but indeed others. Even with the cards stacked against them (as Jason previously pointed out). Furthermore, active shooters almost always take their own life or are killed when they are confronted. That is a FACT. (1)
2) While people can flee like they did in this clip, the recent video of the shooting in Florida showed that people can also FREEZE when they are attacked. If that had happened in this scenario, and the CCW holder did not take action, how many people would have died before the police were finally able to arrive? I have no problem with police, however the FACT is that they can't teleport, they have to drive through traffic. That takes time. Time equals dead bodies. (2)
- Alex
References:
(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spree_killers_by_number_of_victims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spree_killers_by_number_of_victims) (Not all encompassing, but paints a great picture.)
(2) http://www.keithsuddes.com/Ch%2016%20Active%20Killer%20Response%20Theory.pdf (http://www.keithsuddes.com/Ch%2016%20Active%20Killer%20Response%20Theory.pdf)
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Guys, I used serve as an assistant CCW instructor in Arizona. We never discouraged folks, but we were fortunate enough to have our local LEO who helped out with the class. Before we started the class we broke the class down into different categories and identified the individuals with or with out defensive tactics training. We used a similar scenario with simunitions and it really opened everyones eyes on the first day. The videos presented by Defend Hawaii reminded me of that. The information definitely has an agenda, but most of the things they demoed is true to a certain point, or could be interpreted in a different way based on an individuals perception. I am not an expert by no means so please take what I say with a grain of salt. If you are offended, it will not bother me because I can not make everyone happy. Besides, I enjoy being in Hawaii in comparison to serving in the sandbox for another 12 months.
BLUF: I just hope folks realize that training and practice are one of the pivotal cornerstone of being a responsible CCW holder. Muscle memory, action during a crisis, and manipulating the "adrenaline cocktail" take time and dedication. If the CCW law is passed in Hawaii, I just hope there will be qualified instructors to provided responsible CCW holders with training and provide expert testimony if the victim is ever involved in a dynamic critical incident (sorry, just came back from one of Rob Pincus's classes and they used the term "dynamic critical incident to define an ambush). I have personally made the decision to spend a considerable amount of money over the last 10 years to train and practice. Even though Hawaii is still quite restrictive to civilians practicing on the public range, I am fortunate enough travel to the mainland to train (Tiger Valley, ICE, Suarez International, and ITI for this year alone), and visit former students when I am not deployed. Be careful of who you train with because, I have known CCW instructors who have impressive resumes, but fail to support their students if they are involved in a shooting. It's a long term investment if you choose to live the lifestyle, so choose your certifications and instructors carefully. You know having too much training can also be used against you so finding the right balance is also key. It's all about perception IMHO. In addition, I also have to keep up with the laws of where I hold a CCW license, because there are annual updates to the law itself. I am not saying this to discourage anyone, but if you intend to carry, take training from qualified schools, individuals, and do your best to maintain your proficiency.
One more thing, CCW in Hawaii would be an interesting environment for CCW. There are interesting ways to carry depending on the weather. Folks that have lived on the mainland might understand what I mean. It's not too tough to conceal and handgun if you are wearing slack and jacket if the weather is cooperating with you. Hawaii is a bit unique. I often wonder if the folks who carry fanny packs are LEO's or Federal Officers IMHO. A CCW holder might stand out from the rest of crowd which could make him/her the target based on the way they dress. Just food for thought. Jimmy joe wearing 5.11 might be a dead give away for an off duty peace officer, PMC, civilian defensive hobbyist which could be good or bad depending on the situation. If you intend to live the CCW lifestyle you have to be willing to make changes in your life and that should be up to the individual IMHO. Some might say this is a hassle, but you have to stay proficient and keep it to yourselves current on CCW affairs pertaining to your state. It's almost like you have to do double the work of the criminals who carry illegally. That's life and it sucks. It is what it is folks.
This is my last post here and I am quite irritated at what is going on at this site IMHO. Unfortunately like most military personal, I will only be here for a couple of years and will leave soon. My apologies if I have offended anyone who is permanently stationed here. However, I enjoy shooting at the MPPL matches, where I am allowed to train at certain point. I always try to imagine being under duress and working the problem even though the starting positions are the same and problem sets go way past the number 4. This can be tough since they mostly do the "run and gun" game where gun handling skills reign supreme and there is not much play for defensive shooting. (Fire, forget , and never access. Next target!) Well, we just have to make the best of the given situation. It could be like California. My scores suck, really suck so do not be surprised. I tend to loose focus after shooting the 4th target on any stage. My thing is if I am shooting more than one target with a hand gun I better being fighting my way towards a long gun, looking for cover, or getting the hell out there to get more support.
Just my two cents, sooooooo have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Good luck with promoting 2A in Hawaii and if it passes............please oh please get some training. Young or old, there is no excuse for skills that you learned 15 years ago or yesterday. It's obsolete already. So stay proficient, situationally aware, and open to any point of view that is out there when it comes to CCW in your carry state. It's also a responsibility for you, your family , and the other people who are around you when you decided to do a "presentation" in defense of your life.
Much respect to all of good people out there.
SK
PS: To the administrator - Please remove me from the rolls of this forum. I thank you for allowing me to post! Thank you again! :wave:
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LIES!!! lol, in the bright side, the videos do make some valid points and remind us what we're up against when it comes to defending carry rights.
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Edit:
I have to apologize.
Got on my nerve there for a minute.
Great Vids, however I just don't see how it shows CCW is a bad thing. Just shows CCW holders need to train hard to be effective.
If anything, at the least, they had a chance to do something besides being slaughtered like sheep. :)
Apology accepted!!!
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Things to remember -- while Defend is trying to promote an Anti- concealed carry brady campaign agenda, it's important to realize that training does improve your chances of survival. This is in regards to anything "defensive", be it martial arts, athletics (Running away), speaking (conditioning yourself to yell the proper words). I don't know a single gun owner, instructor, or proponent of concealed carry or open carry, who would say you should avoid training -- not one.
Now about the video - not every criminal is a training and conditioned expert on firearms, the randomness of that encounter is kind of blah, when real bullets are involved (if you don't freeze) you usually move out of the way and take cover (which is the most important aspect, you can't fight back if your not covered, concealed, or alive). The video provides great insight to why training is important. However, if you think that some of us can't wait to train at this level (we have many issues with a gun range) then you would be wrong. Some of us do train, have trained, and will continue to train.
very few active shooter have gone into that fast, but it does happen. If someone was to come into the room, draw, and begin to open fire.. no firearm is going to stop that initial shot.
I still don't see the point of your title, and thus, it will be changed.
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Ok Mr funtimes 2A or whatever your name is i see how u all roll on this site. The vids and title were taken straight from you tube. U all are living n a dream world if u think that packing is all it takes. Some of u think that the 2 hours of range time and 4 hours of class study required to obtain a safety course certification is all u need.
I would love tO attend One of your 2A meetings to hear what u all have to say.
Goodnight!!
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Ok Mr funtimes 2A or whatever your name is i see how u all roll on this site. The vids and title were taken straight from you tube. U all are living n a dream world if u think that packing is all it takes. Some of u think that the 2 hours of range time and 4 hours of class study required to obtain a safety course certification is all u need.
I would love tO attend One of your 2A meetings to hear what u all have to say.
Goodnight!!
You really should learn to read. :sleeping:
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The vids and title were taken straight from you tube.
We all know that Wrestling is real and Football is fake, right? YOUTUBE has tons of content, most of is BS for fun.
As far as making a meeting...everyone is welcome and always has been. Given your stance on 2a, I simply suggest you have your agenda in order to present to the group if you decide to show up.
Please don't waste our time, we won't waste yours.
Mahalo
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I've changed the title back to the original because it matches the youtube titles.
Let me ask you this, how much training do YOU feel should be required for concealed carry permit holders?
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I've changed the title back to the original because it matches the youtube titles.
Let me ask you this, how much training do YOU feel should be required for concealed carry permit holders?
I feel that CCW applicants must pass a written and live fire course taught by HPD. CCW applicants must learn Hawaii's use of force policy. They like police Officers MUST be held to a higher degree of responsibility. Classes must be taught on proper ccw attire. We live in hawaii and most of the time we wear t shirt and shorts. we are not like the mainland. no bulky coats to cover up the guns.
The live fire portion would be shooting at stationary targets as well as dynamic simunition exercises such as the video.
Thank You..
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If DH went to a meeting i imagine him googling furiously to find anti-gun sites and youtube videos because he cant come up with any valid (not emotiinal)responses himself. He might even bring his hpd application (because we all know simply filling out an hpd app means you are better and more qualified then anyone else on the constitution, gun right, etc.)
Matter of fact even though me or dh wont get the hpd job (id turn the offer down) i might just fill out an app too so i can gain all the wisdom and power he did from filling out his. :)
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I've changed the title back to the original because it matches the youtube titles.
Let me ask you this, how much training do YOU feel should be required for concealed carry permit holders?
I feel that CCW applicants must pass a written and live fire course taught by HPD. CCW applicants must learn Hawaii's use of force policy. They like police Officers MUST be held to a higher degree of responsibility. Classes must be taught on proper ccw attire. We live in hawaii and most of the time we wear t shirt and shorts. we are not like the mainland. no bulky coats to cover up the guns.
The live fire portion would be shooting at stationary targets as well as dynamic simunition exercises such as the video.
Thank You..
Sounds like youre saying the pd needs to step up and get it together on their side. I agree. Im glad you see its the pd and not us pro 2a guys that are the problem
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If DH went to a meeting i imagine him googling furiously to find anti-gun sites and youtube videos because he cant come up with any valid (not emotiinal)responses himself. He might even bring his hpd application (because we all know simply filling out an hpd app means you are better and more qualified then anyone else on the constitution, gun right, etc.)
Matter of fact even though me or dh wont get the hpd job (id turn the offer down) i might just fill out an app too so i can gain all the wisdom and power he did from filling out his. :)
If DH went to a 2A meeting that would be one more then your sorry butt :rofl: :rofl:
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I've changed the title back to the original because it matches the youtube titles.
Let me ask you this, how much training do YOU feel should be required for concealed carry permit holders?
I feel that CCW applicants must pass a written and live fire course taught by HPD. CCW applicants must learn Hawaii's use of force policy. They like police Officers MUST be held to a higher degree of responsibility. Classes must be taught on proper ccw attire. We live in hawaii and most of the time we wear t shirt and shorts. we are not like the mainland. no bulky coats to cover up the guns.
The live fire portion would be shooting at stationary targets as well as dynamic simunition exercises such as the video.
Thank You..
Sounds like youre saying the pd needs to step up and get it together on their side. I agree. Im glad you see its the pd and not us pro 2a guys that are the problem
THATS IF CCW IS EVER GRANTED!!!!!! Please read the whole post before you reply. You just looking silly....
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Are police officers held to a higher degree of responsibility?
As for training, how many hours would you say is enough training?
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If you read through this site you will find out that there have already been ccw permits granted in the state of hawaii
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If you read through this site you will find out that there have already been ccw permits granted in the state of hawaii
I am well aware of that Sir. If you are EVER granted a CCW Permit please train. Train practice and use good common sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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HPD, over 30 years ago required almost the SAME training for CCW permittee as Regular commissioned HPD officers.
The Written test was also very close/same to what HPD officers had to know.....
That was the first, last and Only time I was able to view their "standards" for CCW permittees when the entire "standards" were
availible from the City Clerk's Office. I should have made a copy of the entire file......
As I recall, all such stuff is/was supposed to be availible to all applicants according to City Rules/Laws.
HPD removed it all. I checked thru contacts in the Mayor's Office and "friendly" gun owning City Council Person.
No way will HPD "release" what "should be" Public Information.
IF everything is still the same, CCW permittees would/should qualify as Reserve Police Officers as far as the shooting part is concerned.
Personally, I have no agruements with either written or practical tests. Permittees would be held to the Same High Standards as regular LEO.
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HPD, over 30 years ago required almost the SAME training for CCW permittee as Regular commissioned HPD officers.
The Written test was also very close/same to what HPD officers had to know.....
That was the first, last and Only time I was able to view their "standards" for CCW permittees when the entire "standards" were
availible from the City Clerk's Office. I should have made a copy of the entire file......
As I recall, all such stuff is/was supposed to be availible to all applicants according to City Rules/Laws.
HPD removed it all. I checked thru contacts in the Mayor's Office and "friendly" gun owning City Council Person.
No way will HPD "release" what "should be" Public Information.
IF everything is still the same, CCW permittees would/should qualify as Reserve Police Officers as far as the shooting part is concerned.
Personally, I have no agruements with either written or practical tests. Permittees would be held to the Same High Standards as regular LEO.
It's impossible to try and hold people to standards set for police officers. We don't have the same entry requirements, and there are many variables. OG, in your older age, I can imagine you can't get down and dirty like you could in your twenties -- there may be some people who CANT get down at all. What about handicap people? Who pays for the classes, ammunition, instructors, the classes availabilities, ranges etc.
While I would *LOVE* to see people brought to this standard, it's simply not reasonable enough for execution.
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If you read through this site you will find out that there have already been ccw permits granted in the state of hawaii
I am well aware of that Sir.
Right. You just looking silly.
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Funtimes,
The information I posted was what HPD required at the time I was able to look at the documentation.
Which was over 30 years ago. HPD has since removed the Entire file from public viewing.
Not what I want.
As it is Now, we firearms owner are at a Higher standard. We are cleared by FBI, HPD and the medical profession.
As a NRA instructor with LIFE and a Disabled person, I am very much aware the HPD's requirements At that time may be unfair to
persons with disabilities. As an instructor, I have taught disabled persons how to shoot and worked with them on what kind of firearm
works best for that individual.
When CCW comes to Hawaii, if HPD does not change it's requirements(as I saw them then) I can foresee a lawsuit , by a particular disabled
attorney who works "pro bono", against HPD for violating the Federal Persons with Disabilities Act.
And he will Win too, just as he has won against many businesses(large and small) here in Hawaii.
Edit: As in all other states with CCW, the costs of the training etc are the responsibility of the permittee. I am Not aware of any jurisdiction that will cover the
cost of CCW classes/training of the permittee on a state wide basis. There have been and may be classes conducted by local area LE organizations/groups.
But, Not on a State wide basis.
If anyone is aware of any state offering both class and shooting instruction on a State Wide basis, please let me know.
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It's impossible to try and hold people to standards set for police officers. We don't have the same entry requirements, and there are many variables. OG, in your older age, I can imagine you can't get down and dirty like you could in your twenties -- there may be some people who CANT get down at all. What about handicap people? Who pays for the classes, ammunition, instructors, the classes availabilities, ranges etc.
While I would *LOVE* to see people brought to this standard, it's simply not reasonable enough for execution.
When CCW comes to Hawaii, if HPD does not change it's requirements(as I saw them then) I can foresee a lawsuit , by a particular disabled
attorney who works "pro bono", against HPD for violating the Federal Persons with Disabilities Act.
And he will Win too, just as he has won against many businesses(large and small) here in Hawaii.
I think I'd have to agree here.
I don't think it to be right or fair to disqualify a person because they are not physically able to accomplish police training. Everyone must have the right to defend themselves against attackers.
They may not have the best chances of success (as would a person able to train often), but they will be able to have a chance, as opposed to no chance at all.
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I feel that CCW applicants must pass a written and live fire course taught by HPD. CCW applicants must learn Hawaii's use of force policy. They like police Officers MUST be held to a higher degree of responsibility. Classes must be taught on proper ccw attire. We live in hawaii and most of the time we wear t shirt and shorts. we are not like the mainland. no bulky coats to cover up the guns.
The live fire portion would be shooting at stationary targets as well as dynamic simunition exercises such as the video.
Thank You..
I agree completely. Something as potent as CCW should come with a training requirement, or proof of prior training (i.e. military or police service). I feel the majority of us advocating CCW would have no problem taking and passing said training course, and if that's what it takes that's what it takes. The State needs to provide a viable option to CCW rather than outright denying every application.
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HPD, over 30 years ago required almost the SAME training for CCW permittee as Regular commissioned HPD officers.
The Written test was also very close/same to what HPD officers had to know.....
That was the first, last and Only time I was able to view their "standards" for CCW permittees when the entire "standards" were
availible from the City Clerk's Office. I should have made a copy of the entire file......
As I recall, all such stuff is/was supposed to be availible to all applicants according to City Rules/Laws.
HPD removed it all. I checked thru contacts in the Mayor's Office and "friendly" gun owning City Council Person.
No way will HPD "release" what "should be" Public Information.
IF everything is still the same, CCW permittees would/should qualify as Reserve Police Officers as far as the shooting part is concerned.
Personally, I have no agruements with either written or practical tests. Permittees would be held to the Same High Standards as regular LEO.
It's impossible to try and hold people to standards set for police officers. We don't have the same entry requirements, and there are many variables. OG, in your older age, I can imagine you can't get down and dirty like you could in your twenties -- there may be some people who CANT get down at all. What about handicap people? Who pays for the classes, ammunition, instructors, the classes availabilities, ranges etc.
While I would *LOVE* to see people brought to this standard, it's simply not reasonable enough for execution.
Sounds like you (Funtime/2A) want CCW without putting in the training, studying and work.
I am glad most of you would DEDICATE yourself to this method of training if CCW in Hawaii ever happens.
With this strict training and teaching CCW might just work. That is why i say CCW is a PRIVLEDGE not your RIGHT.
The more I research CCW the more I realize that alot of CCW holders know infact the bare basics.
I encourage all of you who are SERIOIUS and DEDICATED to CCW in Hawaii to put in the work at the range and classroom.
Learn that with the right to bear arms also comes great responsibility.
Good Luck,
Defend Hawaii
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Sounds like you (Funtime/2A) want CCW without putting in the training, studying and work.
I am glad most of you would DEDICATE yourself to this method of training if CCW in Hawaii ever happens.
With this strict training and teaching CCW might just work. That is why i say CCW is a PRIVLEDGE not your RIGHT.
The more I research CCW the more I realize that alot of CCW holders know infact the bare basics.
I encourage all of you who are SERIOIUS and DEDICATED to CCW in Hawaii to put in the work at the range and classroom.
Learn that with the right to bear arms also comes great responsibility.
Good Luck,
Defend Hawaii
I'd say whether carrying is a RIGHT is up in the air right now especially with the latest decision mentioning the "fundamental right to keep and bare arms." I think you are getting caught up in whether or not YOU consider it a right or a privilege. Fortunately for all of us, it isn't up to you to decide.
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Defend Hawaii,
First, you completely ignored my post on the first page. I would be interested to hear your take on my points outlined there.
With this strict training and teaching CCW might just work.
You're ignoring the FACT that is DOES work. How's this for another fact, around 200,000 (that would be two-hundred THOUSAND) women use a firearm to protect themselves from a sexual assault EACH YEAR. (1)
That is why i say CCW is a PRIVLEDGE not your RIGHT.
Technically, you're right; CCW is a privilege...as long as The People are able to bear arms openly...which we cannot do in Hawaii. We have no option at all to bear arms; therefore, our RIGHT is being violated.
The more I research CCW the more I realize that alot of CCW holders know infact the bare basics.
Please enlighten us of your research...like with DATA. Not opinions. Also, a wise general conducts intelligence gathering about his enemy. In this case, that means reading literature from the other side. Myself and many others do this on a daily basis. What we find, REPEATEDLY, is that groups such as the Brady Campaign are forced to manipulate the numbers or outright lie in an attempt to prove their points. www.Gunfacts.info (http://www.Gunfacts.info) can provide you with countless examples of this...it is not hyperbole, but fact.
If DH went to a 2A meeting that would be one more then your sorry butt :rofl: :rofl:
I truly hope that you do decide to come to the next HCCW meeting in January. The date, time, and location will be posted on this forum, and I will personally PM you with the information, so ignorance will not be an excuse. I think that you might be surprised by what you find. Regarding pistol skills, you are more than welcome to come out to the first MPPL pistol match of the year at Koko Head Shooting Complex. If you place higher than me, I'll buy you a bear and have a picture taken of me on my knees bowing down to you while you drink it...then I'll post the picture as my Facebook profile page for a month for everyone to see. If you lose, you have to promise to download and read the free GunFacts.info e-book. Nothing like some friendly competition.
- Alex
References:
(1) http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/KleckAndGertz1.htm (http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/KleckAndGertz1.htm)
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Sounds like you (Funtime/2A) want CCW without putting in the training, studying and work.
Actually, Chris just completed the class to become an NRA Pistol Instructor and can make a person's head spin with the amount of knowledge he has regarding the use of deadly force in self-defense situations-he studies this stuff harder than anyone I've ever met. His point was that he does not want to see people unable to implement their right to keep and bear arms due to logistical, physical, or financial burden.
- Alex
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Defend Hawaii,
First, you completely ignored my post on the first page. I would be interested to hear your take on my points outlined there.
With this strict training and teaching CCW might just work.
You're ignoring the FACT that is DOES work. How's this for another fact, around 200,000 (that would be two-hundred THOUSAND) women use a firearm to protect themselves from a sexual assault EACH YEAR. (1)
That is why i say CCW is a PRIVLEDGE not your RIGHT.
Technically, you're right; CCW is a privilege...as long as The People are able to bear arms openly...which we cannot do in Hawaii. We have no option at all to bear arms; therefore, our RIGHT is being violated.
The more I research CCW the more I realize that alot of CCW holders know infact the bare basics.
Please enlighten us of your research...like with DATA. Not opinions. Also, a wise general conducts intelligence gathering about his enemy. In this case, that means reading literature from the other side. Myself and many others do this on a daily basis. What we find, REPEATEDLY, is that groups such as the Brady Campaign are forced to manipulate the numbers or outright lie in an attempt to prove their points. www.Gunfacts.info (http://www.Gunfacts.info) can provide you with countless examples of this...it is not hyperbole, but fact.
If DH went to a 2A meeting that would be one more then your sorry butt :rofl: :rofl:
I truly hope that you do decide to come to the next HCCW meeting in January. The date, time, and location will be posted on this forum, and I will personally PM you with the information, so ignorance will not be an excuse. I think that you might be surprised by what you find. Regarding pistol skills, you are more than welcome to come out to the first MPPL pistol match of the year at Koko Head Shooting Complex. If you place higher than me, I'll buy you a bear and have a picture taken of me on my knees bowing down to you while you drink it...then I'll post the picture as my Facebook profile page for a month for everyone to see. If you lose, you have to promise to download and read the free GunFacts.info e-book. Nothing like some friendly competition.
- Alex
References:
(1) http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/KleckAndGertz1.htm (http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/KleckAndGertz1.htm)
Alex, I do not drink beer, however i will read the Gunfacts info ebook. I am really trying to defend Hawaii against all evils not just with guns but with all the other BS trying to hurt OUR beloved home Hawaii.
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Alex, I do not drink beer, however i will read the Gunfacts info ebook. I am really trying to defend Hawaii against all evils not just with guns but with all the other BS trying to hurt OUR beloved home Hawaii.
Dear Sir,
Might I suggest you start with actual evils like criminals and not Constitutional right issues? Example: Crack. Larceny. Overstepping. Property theft. Eating cold pizza. :rofl: etc.
When you read the gunfacts, make sure you also double check the source when it is available online. I am sincere when I say this; I hope we can start talking with facts rather than starting any counter arguments with "I feel" or "I think". :shaka:
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Just as a note Defend -- People are much more receptive and willing to discuss with you when you speak somewhat rationally, and leave out all that "KEEP HAWAII HAWAII, NO HAOLE" crap out of it (like you have managed in your most recent 10 posts or so :thumbsup:). Please don't revert back to that senseless drama you were spouting off before -- please keep it real and rational, like you currently are.
If you think that I have said skip on training, your wrong. There is a difference between what people *should* have to be effective, responsible, and capable of employing their firearms for self-defense, and what is *required* to exercise a fundamental constitutional right (See Heller v DC, McDonald v. City of Chicago).
Police have a physical screening process; there are many people who are unable to pass that. Those people, who are some how unable to pass physically, can't be denied their right to self-defense because of some arbitrary training. HPD also teaches nothing to anyone except HPD; which all boils down to liability. We actually can't really find any place like they have in those videos to train, because of zoning restrictions and the cities requirements.
I would love to have a "kill house" type place, where you could practice some stuff like this.
-
There is a difference between what people *should* have to be effective, responsible, and capable of employing their firearms for self-defense, and what is *required* to exercise a fundamental constitutional right (See Heller v DC, McDonald v. City of Chicago).
This is how I believe it should be. I wouldn't push for any required training for CCW, but I would push for moderate to severe punishment for irresponsible carriers who have little to no range time, no training courses, etc, and are wreckless in self-defense. The responsibility needs to be self-generated. If not, any requirements just become one more piece of paper to forget about.
-
]
Funtimes/2A/chris/etc/etc:
Keep Hawaii Hawaii means really that. Keep it Hawaii. For your info, Sir i have many "mainland friends" who respect the islands and treat it as thier own. I have Mainland Friends who are more local than some of the locals.
It was u and your cronies who assumed i was talking about "Da Hauole's"
I never come on this website to bash da mainlanders. i came on it to Defend Hawaii from CCW.
Here is an idea for CCW Permits.
Let the public vote on it.
Eh really you have a good week.
-
Just as a note Defend -- People are much more receptive and willing to discuss with you when you speak somewhat rationally, and leave out all that "KEEP HAWAII HAWAII, NO HAOLE" crap out of it (like you have managed in your most recent 10 posts or so :thumbsup:). Please don't revert back to that senseless drama you were spouting off before -- please keep it real and rational, like you currently are.
If you think that I have said skip on training, your wrong. There is a difference between what people *should* have to be effective, responsible, and capable of employing their firearms for self-defense, and what is *required* to exercise a fundamental constitutional right (See Heller v DC, McDonald v. City of Chicago).
Police have a physical screening process; there are many people who are unable to pass that. Those people, who are some how unable to pass physically, can't be denied their right to self-defense because of some arbitrary training. HPD also teaches nothing to anyone except HPD; which all boils down to liability. We actually can't really find any place like they have in those videos to train, because of zoning restrictions and the cities requirements.
I would love to have a "kill house" type place, where you could practice some stuff like this.
KILL HOUSE<
I do not know if you ever heard of Power Edge on Waialae Ave. It is actually an Airsoft Shop. Well Poweredge does rent out its course to the public. There is a fee, the guns are replica, but a "killhouse" non the less. Airsoft is used by many LEO'S and Millitary as a form of training.
If intrested in a 2A Hawaii Airsoft event contact Peter at Power Edge.
-
It was u and your cronies who assumed i was talking about "Da Hauole's"
Clearly someone went back and edited their original posts-- we all saw what you wrote earlier. I guess you got tired of us quoting your many contradictions?
-
It was u and your cronies who assumed i was talking about "Da Hauole's"
Clearly someone went back and edited their original posts-- we all saw what you wrote earlier. I guess you got tired of us quoting your many contradictions?
I never delete ANYTHING!!!! I got nothing to HIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! O0
-
Let the public vote on it.
This is where I have a problem and people (not specifically you DH) get emotional about it and thus willingly allow our freedoms to erode. This isn't a democracy: A Government entity that is ruled by majority. It's a Republic: A Government entity that adheres to a charter. Unfortunately, it's run as a Dmcrcy even where the Rblc restricts it (such as our issue) because people allow it and emotions run rampant and are wielded as political weapons. You can't force slaves to vote on being free if they've been trained to embrace being a slave.
My point is, as feel-good and pat-eachother-on-the-back a vote would be, a protected right is not something you vote on.
-
KILL HOUSE<
I do not know if you ever heard of Power Edge on Waialae Ave. It is actually an Airsoft Shop. Well Poweredge does rent out its course to the public. There is a fee, the guns are replica, but a "killhouse" non the less. Airsoft is used by many LEO'S and Millitary as a form of training.
If intrested in a 2A Hawaii Airsoft event contact Peter at Power Edge.
Poweredge. That's where I got my eotech about 4 or 5 years ago. Haven't been there since, but I have a friend that asks me every other week or so to go out there with him for a night of airsoft games. I just happen to be so damn busy and work those days. :shaka:
-
]
Funtimes/2A/chris/etc/etc:
Keep Hawaii Hawaii means really that. Keep it Hawaii. For your info, Sir i have many "mainland friends" who respect the islands and treat it as thier own. I have Mainland Friends who are more local than some of the locals.
It was u and your cronies who assumed i was talking about "Da Hauole's"
I never come on this website to bash da mainlanders. i came on it to Defend Hawaii from CCW.
Here is an idea for CCW Permits.
Let the public vote on it.
Eh really you have a good week.
You're killing me. Really. Please comment on Open vs. Concealed carry issue.
Secondly, provide FACTS as to what EXACTLY you are defending Hawaii from if some version of carry (open or concealed) were brought here.
- Alex
-
Once his CCW myths he's basing all his fears on (as he groups it in the category of "evil"; as senseless as "Evil Black Rifles" of Cali) are debunked, I predict his responses will at least be clearer. One can hope.
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I never delete ANYTHING!!!! I got nothing to HIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! O0
I didn't say "delete" I said edited. The posts are still there but the content is vastly different. Anyhow, you seem to be willing to debate this in a rational and mature fashion now so we'll let bygones be bygones.
Let the public vote on it.
You and I both know how easily political-fearmongering would make the public vote against it. Democracy only works when those voting understand the issue, otherwise it's just mob mentality:
(http://bobmccarty.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/frankenstein-mill.jpg)
(http://www.dailyhistory.net/images/salem-witch-hunt.jpg)
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I never delete ANYTHING!!!! I got nothing to HIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! O0
I didn't say "delete" I said edited. The posts are still there but the content is vastly different. Anyhow, you seem to be willing to debate this in a rational and mature fashion now so we'll let bygones be bygones.
Let the public vote on it.
You and I both know how easily political-fearmongering would make the public vote against it. Democracy only works when those voting understand the issue, otherwise it's just mob mentality:
(http://bobmccarty.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/frankenstein-mill.jpg)
(http://www.dailyhistory.net/images/salem-witch-hunt.jpg)
I did not edit or delete ANYTHING!! You can thank the mods on this site for changing my posts/threads.
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Not surprised dh is an airsoft guy.
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It was u and your cronies who assumed i was talking about "Da Hauole's"
Clearly someone went back and edited their original posts-- we all saw what you wrote earlier. I guess you got tired of us quoting your many contradictions?
I never delete ANYTHING!!!! I got nothing to HIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! O0
I can't quote directly from the thread since it's locked, but on Page 2 of the "Ask for Police Escort" thread, you said this:
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=977.msg6300#msg6300 (http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=977.msg6300#msg6300)
:rofl:
The right to bear arms is your PRIVLEDGE not your damn rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh i wanted the Super Ferry it was all the Haole's on Kauai that hated it. Funny those same Haole's that said the Ferry was destructive to the Islands are the same ones pushing for CCW O0
- Alex
-
Double post. :(
-
What i don't get is how this thread gets so many views, replies & attention. Is the concept of trolling too new for this forum?
As long as everyone is having fun, i guess it's ok.
-
It was u and your cronies who assumed i was talking about "Da Hauole's"
Clearly someone went back and edited their original posts-- we all saw what you wrote earlier. I guess you got tired of us quoting your many contradictions?
I never delete ANYTHING!!!! I got nothing to HIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! O0
I can't quote directly from the thread since it's locked, but on Page 2 of the "Ask for Police Escort" thread, you said this:
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=977.msg6300#msg6300 (http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=977.msg6300#msg6300)
:rofl:
The right to bear arms is your PRIVLEDGE not your damn rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh i wanted the Super Ferry it was all the Haole's on Kauai that hated it. Funny those same Haole's that said the Ferry was destructive to the Islands are the same ones pushing for CCW O0
- Alex
808shooter
Full MemberPosts: 108
Referrals: 0
Re: Ask for Police Escort
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2010, 09:38:47 AM »Quote from: Dregs on December 22, 2010, 08:36:44 AMQuote from: Defend Hawaii on December 22, 2010, 08:11:16 AMTHIS IS HAWAII NOT THE MAINLAND... KEEP HAWAII HAWAII!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Observe, folks. This is exactly what I've been talking about that drags us 10 years behind. The mentality, the mold, that needs to be broken if we're ever to stop being last. The training we've received to not only shed our own rights, but to repel our own rights. All emotion. This saddens me.
PS: Hawaii is a state that is part of the U.S.
Yep, this is the "locals vs. haoles" attitude.
Eh Alex your friend 808shooter brought it up!!!!!
And quite your moaning haole is slang for white>>> In Hawaii everyone tease everyone. Its from the old sugar cane plantation days.....
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Sigh.
So, you're not going to actually have a meaningful discussion based on the facts that have been presented? If you don't have any legitimate points based on anything other than emotion or feeling, then this thread should be :closed:
If you do wish to actually discuss the issues instead of getting sidetracked every other post, then let's get :stopjack:
- Alex
-
It was u and your cronies who assumed i was talking about "Da Hauole's"
Clearly someone went back and edited their original posts-- we all saw what you wrote earlier. I guess you got tired of us quoting your many contradictions?
I never delete ANYTHING!!!! I got nothing to HIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! O0
I can't quote directly from the thread since it's locked, but on Page 2 of the "Ask for Police Escort" thread, you said this:
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=977.msg6300#msg6300 (http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=977.msg6300#msg6300)
:rofl:
The right to bear arms is your PRIVLEDGE not your damn rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh i wanted the Super Ferry it was all the Haole's on Kauai that hated it. Funny those same Haole's that said the Ferry was destructive to the Islands are the same ones pushing for CCW O0
- Alex
808shooter
Full MemberPosts: 108
Referrals: 0
Re: Ask for Police Escort
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2010, 09:38:47 AM »Quote from: Dregs on December 22, 2010, 08:36:44 AMQuote from: Defend Hawaii on December 22, 2010, 08:11:16 AMTHIS IS HAWAII NOT THE MAINLAND... KEEP HAWAII HAWAII!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Observe, folks. This is exactly what I've been talking about that drags us 10 years behind. The mentality, the mold, that needs to be broken if we're ever to stop being last. The training we've received to not only shed our own rights, but to repel our own rights. All emotion. This saddens me.
PS: Hawaii is a state that is part of the U.S.
Yep, this is the "locals vs. haoles" attitude.
Eh Alex your friend 808shooter brought it up!!!!!
And quite your moaning haole is slang for white>>> In Hawaii everyone tease everyone. Its from the old sugar cane plantation days.....
:wtf: Seriously? Now CCW is in Hawaii is a bad idea, but teasing and racism are okay? We all know you are a troll, but Is there anything you won't say to get a reaction?
Waiting on the next stupid comment. :popcorn:
-
Let's get back on topic here.
Enough with the racial stuff of this thread will be locked.
-
It was u and your cronies who assumed i was talking about "Da Hauole's"
Clearly someone went back and edited their original posts-- we all saw what you wrote earlier. I guess you got tired of us quoting your many contradictions?
I never delete ANYTHING!!!! I got nothing to HIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! O0
I can't quote directly from the thread since it's locked, but on Page 2 of the "Ask for Police Escort" thread, you said this:
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=977.msg6300#msg6300 (http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=977.msg6300#msg6300)
:rofl:
The right to bear arms is your PRIVLEDGE not your damn rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh i wanted the Super Ferry it was all the Haole's on Kauai that hated it. Funny those same Haole's that said the Ferry was destructive to the Islands are the same ones pushing for CCW O0
- Alex
808shooter
Full MemberPosts: 108
Referrals: 0
Re: Ask for Police Escort
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2010, 09:38:47 AM »Quote from: Dregs on December 22, 2010, 08:36:44 AMQuote from: Defend Hawaii on December 22, 2010, 08:11:16 AMTHIS IS HAWAII NOT THE MAINLAND... KEEP HAWAII HAWAII!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Observe, folks. This is exactly what I've been talking about that drags us 10 years behind. The mentality, the mold, that needs to be broken if we're ever to stop being last. The training we've received to not only shed our own rights, but to repel our own rights. All emotion. This saddens me.
PS: Hawaii is a state that is part of the U.S.
Yep, this is the "locals vs. haoles" attitude.
Eh Alex your friend 808shooter brought it up!!!!!
And quite your moaning haole is slang for white>>> In Hawaii everyone tease everyone. Its from the old sugar cane plantation days.....
:wtf: Seriously? Now CCW is in Hawaii is a bad idea :), but teasing and racism are okay? We all know you are a troll, but Is there anything you won't say to get a reaction?
Waiting on the next stupid comment. :popcorn:
LOL u just do not understand the local ways!!
-
:stopjack:
Disclaimer for the emotionally clouded:
The article is not about bashing police and calling them names. It's about the fatal consequences of making policies based on expecting police to be everywhere at once at an instant. Also, it is not their lawfully binding and fully liable duty to protect you. (If it is, can every victim sue the department and win? Is that what it's going to take?)
http://jpfo.org/alerts/alert19991104.htm (http://jpfo.org/alerts/alert19991104.htm)
This article was written in 1999 and we can tell that NOTHING has changed since then. We're still just as vulnerable to the same attack. Laid out plain and simple by JPFO (Albeit trying to sell their book).
*EDIT*
I like this article because it doesn't have as many dramatic emotional flares, fancy dramatic emotional language, and it says it how it is. I'm an advocate of rational logical thinking :geekdanc:
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It was u and your cronies who assumed i was talking about "Da Hauole's"
Clearly someone went back and edited their original posts-- we all saw what you wrote earlier. I guess you got tired of us quoting your many contradictions?
I never delete ANYTHING!!!! I got nothing to HIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! O0
I can't quote directly from the thread since it's locked, but on Page 2 of the "Ask for Police Escort" thread, you said this:
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=977.msg6300#msg6300 (http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=977.msg6300#msg6300)
:rofl:
The right to bear arms is your PRIVLEDGE not your damn rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh i wanted the Super Ferry it was all the Haole's on Kauai that hated it. Funny those same Haole's that said the Ferry was destructive to the Islands are the same ones pushing for CCW O0
- Alex
808shooter
Full MemberPosts: 108
Referrals: 0
Re: Ask for Police Escort
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2010, 09:38:47 AM »Quote from: Dregs on December 22, 2010, 08:36:44 AMQuote from: Defend Hawaii on December 22, 2010, 08:11:16 AMTHIS IS HAWAII NOT THE MAINLAND... KEEP HAWAII HAWAII!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Observe, folks. This is exactly what I've been talking about that drags us 10 years behind. The mentality, the mold, that needs to be broken if we're ever to stop being last. The training we've received to not only shed our own rights, but to repel our own rights. All emotion. This saddens me.
PS: Hawaii is a state that is part of the U.S.
Yep, this is the "locals vs. haoles" attitude.
Eh Alex your friend 808shooter brought it up!!!!!
And quite your moaning haole is slang for white>>> In Hawaii everyone tease everyone. Its from the old sugar cane plantation days.....
:wtf: Seriously? Now CCW is in Hawaii is a bad idea :), but teasing and racism are okay? We all know you are a troll, but Is there anything you won't say to get a reaction?
Waiting on the next stupid comment. :popcorn:
LOL u just do not understand the local ways!!
If they are the same "local" ways that resulted in your one-track mind...I don't want to understand. Have nice day.
-
It was u and your cronies who assumed i was talking about "Da Hauole's"
Clearly someone went back and edited their original posts-- we all saw what you wrote earlier. I guess you got tired of us quoting your many contradictions?
I never delete ANYTHING!!!! I got nothing to HIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! O0
I can't quote directly from the thread since it's locked, but on Page 2 of the "Ask for Police Escort" thread, you said this:
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=977.msg6300#msg6300 (http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=977.msg6300#msg6300)
:rofl:
The right to bear arms is your PRIVLEDGE not your damn rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh i wanted the Super Ferry it was all the Haole's on Kauai that hated it. Funny those same Haole's that said the Ferry was destructive to the Islands are the same ones pushing for CCW O0
- Alex
808shooter
Full MemberPosts: 108
Referrals: 0
Re: Ask for Police Escort
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2010, 09:38:47 AM »Quote from: Dregs on December 22, 2010, 08:36:44 AMQuote from: Defend Hawaii on December 22, 2010, 08:11:16 AMTHIS IS HAWAII NOT THE MAINLAND... KEEP HAWAII HAWAII!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Observe, folks. This is exactly what I've been talking about that drags us 10 years behind. The mentality, the mold, that needs to be broken if we're ever to stop being last. The training we've received to not only shed our own rights, but to repel our own rights. All emotion. This saddens me.
PS: Hawaii is a state that is part of the U.S.
Yep, this is the "locals vs. haoles" attitude.
Eh Alex your friend 808shooter brought it up!!!!!
And quite your moaning haole is slang for white>>> In Hawaii everyone tease everyone. Its from the old sugar cane plantation days.....
:wtf: Seriously? Now CCW is in Hawaii is a bad idea :), but teasing and racism are okay? We all know you are a troll, but Is there anything you won't say to get a reaction?
Waiting on the next stupid comment. :popcorn:
LOL u just do not understand the local ways!!
If they are the same "local" ways that resulted in your one-track mind...I don't want to understand. Have nice day.
Concealed Carry Killers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGNZ1mgdeT4#)
If this ever comes to Hawaii, then really i do not want to understand... Our brave men and women in the force put up with enough. RIP to those that passed away.
-
*snip*
May 2007 through the end of 2009, concealed carry permit holders in the U.S. have killed at least 117 individuals, including 9 law enforcement officers (excluding cases where individuals were acquitted, but including pending cases). There were about 25,000 murders by firearm that period,[77][78] meaning that concealed carry permit holders committed less than 1% of the murders by firearm.
Try again. Do not pass Go.
*going sleep already.
-
And what about the estimated 200,000 women each year who use guns to DEFEND themselves from sexual assault? What do you tell them when you take their guns away? Call the cops and hope they catch the guy after the fact?
Are all CCW permit holders perfect? Absolutely not. Do guns save more lives than they illegally take? Yes.
I really despise the Brady Campaign (VPC); they single out a small handful of truly tragic events to make their point and COMPLETELY IGNORE AND DISREGARD all of the lives the guns save EVERY DAY around the country. Do I sound like a broken record yet? The only arguments that anti-2a people make are misrepresentations of the truth.
- Alex
-
Defend Hawaii,
What is this wortthless piece of youtube crap you have posted now? Do you find yourself scrambling to find anti CCW stuff now? Save time and just ask, I could have pointed you at that sight a long time ago.
I am starting to get the feel that you think (keyword) that you are going to be a police officer someday and that you are just plain scared of CCW and of actually having to abide by laws that afford people other
than LEO the right to self protection. The thought of it gives you panic attacks at night.
Time for a reality check:
It's not if it comes to Hawaii...it is when. Get a grip dude..or a hobby!
-
WORTHLESS??? Shame on you voo. 9 men who DEFENDED thier respective States with thier lives and all u can say is worthless... You and your shithead attitude is what makes trolls like me against CCW. Your type is why HAWAII has no CCW. You spoil it for everyone else.
>:(
-
You're still handpicking which post you want to emotionally reply to and then choosing to ignore the posts with the facts when you're unable to contend it. This is why you invalidate your own arguments, because there we see you're not actually concerned about what you claim to represent: Defend Hawaii and making Hawaii safe. Your only goal that I can see is to be against firearms and people being able to defend themselves outside of their homes. If you're really concerned about Defending Hawaii & making Hawaii safe and you actually base your decision on facts, you'd be way too busy to post here as you'd be lobbying for DARE & MADD at the very least.
You don't blame the car when a drunk driver kills someone, but you blame the gun when a criminal kills someone. If I'm wrong and you are somewhere lobbying against ownership of cars and/or drinking alcohol, then please correct me.
*edit*
Edited for clarity
-
And what about the estimated 200,000 women each year who use guns to DEFEND themselves from sexual assault? What do you tell them when you take their guns away? Call the cops and hope they catch the guy after the fact?
DH,
Stop deflecting. It's a common tactic used by criminals during an interrogation to avoid facing the truth. Comment on the quote above. I would be interested to hear your take on it.
By the way, to further contrast your previous point that Hawaii a safe place to live without CCW, the number of Forcible Rapes in Hawaii has jumped up pretty significantly in the last 3 years-to the fourth highest amount in the last 40 years.(1) As a LEO in the military, I sincerely sympathize with the families of those Officers who died at the hands of murders, let's be honest, you're talking about 9 people over the course of 3 years across the entire country. What about the 1,081 women JUST IN HAWAII who were forcibly raped during that same time period? Maybe some of those women would have had a chance of defending THEMSELVES (instead of Hawaii) had their right to bear arms been restored. By the way, they aren't allowed to carry a taser or baton for their protection either. How the anti-2a crowd does not realize that they are COMPLICT in the violent acts committed against those women is beyond me.
If you truly cared about "Defending Hawaii," then you would open your eyes and look at what problems the citizens of the state of Hawaii are currently facing and RATIONALLY determine if returning 2nd Amendment rights to The People would mitigate them. Or do you have such little faith in your fellow Hawaiians that you don't trust them with a gun?
- Alex
Reference:
(1) http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/hicrime.htm (http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/hicrime.htm)
-
And what about the estimated 200,000 women each year who use guns to DEFEND themselves from sexual assault? What do you tell them when you take their guns away? Call the cops and hope they catch the guy after the fact?
DH,
Stop deflecting. It's a common tactic used by criminals during an interrogation to avoid facing the truth. Comment on the quote above. I would be interested to hear your take on it.
By the way, to further contrast your previous point that Hawaii a safe place to live without CCW, the number of Forcible Rapes in Hawaii has jumped up pretty significantly in the last 3 years-to the fourth highest amount in the last 40 years.(1) As a LEO in the military, I sincerely sympathize with the families of those Officers who died at the hands of murders, let's be honest, you're talking about 9 people over the course of 3 years across the entire country. What about the 1,081 women JUST IN HAWAII who were forcibly raped during that same time period? Maybe some of those women would have had a chance of defending THEMSELVES (instead of Hawaii) had their right to bear arms been restored. By the way, they aren't allowed to carry a taser or baton for their protection either. How the anti-2a crowd does not realize that they are COMPLICT in the violent acts committed against those women is beyond me.
If you truly cared about "Defending Hawaii," then you would open your eyes and look at what problems the citizens of the state of Hawaii are currently facing and RATIONALLY determine if returning 2nd Amendment rights to The People would mitigate them. Or do you have such little faith in your fellow Hawaiians that you don't trust them with a gun?
- Alex
Reference:
(1) http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/hicrime.htm (http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/hicrime.htm)
Alex, Minus the 10-20 2A Cult Members no one else in Hawaii really wants CCW.
I will be at HPD Firearms in about an hour if any of you want to have a talk about this!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Nice youtube video, if it actually pertained to the subject I would have paid more attention.
Cpl Mike Roberts, shot and killed by Huberto Delgado was done with an AR-15, not a pistol, meaning whether he had a CCW is irrelevant. He shot the guy with a rifle, which just about ANYONE can get their hands on. In the context of CCW causing more or less death, this death is irrevelvant to the arguement.
James Wonder, the 65 year old who shot Officer Pettit, was FOLLOWED into a parking lot after a road rage incident (both drivers yelling and making obsene jestures). Officer Pettit, followed Mr Wonder into a parking lot, and BLOCKED Mr Wonder's car. He then got out of the car and confronted Mr Wonder. Due to the man's size and age, Mr Wonder (who was 65 at the time of the altercation), felt there was a legitamite threat to his life. Remember Florida has STAND YOUR GROUND, he was not obligated to hide in his car. Case hasn't gone to trial yet...
3 Pittsuburgh officers shot by Richard Poplawski, were gunned down with an AK-47. Poplawski was lying in wait, armed and armored, for those officers. He didn't walk up to them in the street with a concealed handgun, he used a rifle in his home to shoot those officers. Same as Huberto Delgado (see above), CCW license is irrelevant again, a rifle was used.
Christina Korbe, killed the FBI officer. Again not a CCW issue, as she shot and killed him in her home. The FBI agents and police broke down the door to her home serving a warrant. Her claim is that she didn't know that there were officers in her home. When she walked out to the top of the staircase, she saw intruders coming up toward her children's room. She felt that there was a legit threat to her kids and shot once at the intruders. She immediatly called 911 and told the dispatcher she thought she shot an intruder in her home. Again, doesn't appear she knew law enforcement had entered her home.
I'm not disagreeing that these deaths are tragic, they are. But in the context of stating that CCW is "bad", this video holds no weight as many of the instances are NOT of CCW use.
-
Alex, Minus the 10-20 2A Cult Members no one else in Hawaii really wants CCW.
Dunno why you somehow think you have the authority to speak for the entire state. You can't even support your own argument, let alone anybody else's.
I will be at HPD Firearms in about an hour if any of you want to have a talk about this!!!!!!!!!!!
I think I've figured out why you're so cranky about all this CCW business. You're the registrar lady who has to do all the firearms paperwork down at the police station, aren't you? More permits means more work for you, which is why you're so blatantly against CCW. I'll be sure to say hello next time I'm registering a gun. :rofl:
-
Alex, Minus the 10-20 2A Cult Members no one else in Hawaii really wants CCW.
Dunno why you somehow think you have the authority to speak for the entire state. You can't even support your own argument, let alone anybody else's.
I will be at HPD Firearms in about an hour if any of you want to have a talk about this!!!!!!!!!!!
I think I've figured out why you're so cranky about all this CCW business. You're the registrar lady who has to do all the firearms paperwork down at the police station, aren't you? More permits means more work for you, which is why you're so blatantly against CCW. I'll be sure to say hello next time I'm registering a gun. :rofl:
LMAO :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: If thats the case make sure you bring in goodies to eat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Lol at everyone else in hawaii. Just cause you and your mommy and a friend or two feel that way doesnt mean everyone else feels that way. Try talking to more people about it without throwing all your anti-gun propoganda at them first. I think you might be surprised
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. You and your shithead attitude is what makes trolls like me against CCW.
>:(
And the truth shall set you free...
This is about the only true thing you have said since you began posting that you have been able to back up with facts. At least now we know exactly what you are all about.
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Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. KEEP ON FIGHTING CULT I MEAN 2A MEMBERS AND HAWAII WILL CONTINUE TO FIGHT BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time†finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons
DC VS HELLER
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DH, if you are going to repeat quotes, please cite them. If you continue to post these direct quotations without citation or without adding additional material or comments, you will be banned.
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Wow, you REALLY suck at this whole source material thing. Is it really THAT hard to post a link at the bottom of your post? Anywho, I don't know why I continue to waste my time with you...but I'm sick and sitting at home, so what else am I going to do?
Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited.
"Shall not be infringed" is pretty damn clear to me...but I will defer to modern interpretation which says that "reasonable regulation" is authorized - since the other constitutional rights are essentially held to the same standard. Just like EVERY AMERICAN has the right to freedom of speech, but needs a permit to protest; EVERY AMERICAN also has THE RIGHT to keep and BEAR (BTW, modern interpretation has found that this does mean "to carry" "in CASE of confrontation" NOT "in the event of"...there is a very significant difference between the two phrases) arms, but the state may choose to require a permit to do so.
It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose:
The primary purpose of the 2nd Amendment was to protect The People from a tyrannical government. This, I believe, is why the Founding Fathers stated that our right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. If the government is able to limit us to carrying muskets and muzzleloaders while the military is packing semi-automatic and suppressed .308 rifles, it is not reasonable to believe that The People are, in fact, able to defend themselves from the government. Furthermore, you have CONTINUED TO IGNORE my question relating to Open Carry. Here in Hawaii, we cannot carry a weapon IN ANY MANNER.
For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues.
Yes, they have been upheld ONLY in locations where The People are able to carry openly. In Hawaii, we ARE NOT able to do so. I constantly feel like I'm arguing with a 9th grader who is doing his first-ever research paper. You continue to quote statistics and points that have been refuted countless times. At least do us a favor and try to come up with something at least A LITTLE more creative.
KEEP ON FIGHTING CULT I MEAN 2A MEMBERS AND HAWAII WILL CONTINUE TO FIGHT BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So it is now considered a "cult" to defend the constitution? Wow...just. WOW.
The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill,
I'm pretty sure everyone here agrees with this and no one is calling for either group of people to be allowed to carry.
or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings,
Oh, you mean "Criminal Empowerment Zones?" Open your eyes, the VAST VAST VAST majority of active shooter tragedies happen in EXACTLY the places listed in the quote. This IS NOT a coincidence. Criminals KNOW that they will be only person with a gun in these locations...they is why they CHOOSE them.
- Alex
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DH, if you are going to repeat quotes, please cite them. If you continue to post these direct quotations without citation or without adding additional material or comments, you will be banned.
The 2 Live Crew - Banned in the U.S.A. HD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt8L7FLlWL4#ws)
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Do you REALLY not see the irony of YOU posting that video?
- Alex
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Seriously, wtf are we doing here... get rid of this guy. There is a big ass difference between 1st amendment and allowing him to post, and consistent trolling.
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Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. KEEP ON FIGHTING CULT I MEAN 2A MEMBERS AND HAWAII WILL CONTINUE TO FIGHT BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time†finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons
DC VS HELLER
You do understand that the cases Heller cited, like Nunn, were referencing that concealed can be regulated when open carry is constitutionally protected and authorized. It's nearly given that states are authorized to regulate the manner of bearing arms, so far as they do not burden and infringe upon all forms of the right (i.e., you may restrict open carry, when you are allowing -- and issuing -- permits to conceal carry, or you may strike down concealed carry if you allow citizens to openly bear there arms). See: Nunn v. State, 1 Ga. (1 Kel.) 243 (1846).
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Admits he's a TROLL
Don't feed him
See Ya else when
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Getting HPD involved in civilian concealed carry training is a pipe dream at best. While I agree that training is good and people should take it upon themselves to train as much as financially possible, I do not feel there should be any law forcing individuals to submit to govt sponsored training to exercise an inalienable right. As far as Law Enforcement goes, the only thing we need to do to carry is meet the bare minimum for our dept/agency qualification standards and keep from disciplinary action. Why should everyone else who wants to carry have to maintain a higher standard than us?
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:popcorn: I would love to post but it seems pointless.. Many good points made by many people though !!.. :thumbsup:
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This post died a while ago...when the troll found another bridge to hang out under.
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This post died a while ago...when the troll found another bridge to hang out under.
LOL !! Ok.. I was just surfin and the title caught my attention, hadn't seen it before...