Good news all PWS rifles are heat treated from the get-go  .  I called PWS today and spoke with Stacy, I asked him about the concern about the OP rod failure since my rifle was one of the first batches.  This isolated incident has never been confirmed our reported to PWS.    Personally i would rather buy local, getting customer service would be easier since there is a PWS master distributor here.   PWS did make a retro fit piston conversion many years ago, many people were installing them improperly causing issues that is why they discontinued it.    I have nothing but good things about MK1-Mk2 rifles.

Why would supporting local gun shops require paying more?  Our pricing is almost always competitive when you compare us to buying online and  factor in our $40 FFL fee and between $20-40 shipping.  Even considering the sales tax.  This is a global economy, you have to have a business model that makes you at least competitive with the market at large.  If you want to say it costs more to do business in Hawaii I buy that.. but over MSRP when everyone else sells an item for 7-10% less than MSRP?  That's just profiteering.

I say buy from where it makes sense.

BTW, just to be clear, I do recommend buying PWS rifles from Gun Source if the numbers work for you.  Tony is a good guy and deserves your business.  I just personally don't like the over retail thing.

Why would supporting local gun shops require paying more?  Our pricing is almost always competitive when you compare us to buying online and  factor in our $40 FFL fee and between $20-40 shipping.  Even considering the sales tax.  This is a global economy, you have to have a business model that makes you at least competitive with the market at large.  If you want to say it costs more to do business in Hawaii I buy that.. but over MSRP when everyone else sells an item for 7-10% less than MSRP?  That's just profiteering.

I say buy from where it makes sense.

BTW, just to be clear, I do recommend buying PWS rifles from Gun Source if the numbers work for you.  Tony is a good guy and deserves your business.  I just personally don't like the over retail thing.

I've bought guns from every single gun shop on the island.
I know for a fact that every privately owned gun shop is willing to make a deal for someone.
If you offer a few dollars less for a gun to match a mainland seller, they'll do it.
Sometimes they can't go any lower but they'll throw in a couple boxes of ammo or accessories.

I'm all for buying local.
I don't believe in supporting the mainland dealers when I live in Hawaii.
I might pay a few dollars more but I don't want my local dealers to go out of business because stingy people buy from mainland dealers just to save a few dollars.

I bring my friends to local dealers to buy guns even after they tell me how they can save 20 bucks by buying online.

Now as far as your point, I agree to a point.
If dealers are charging hundreds of dollars more the same gun that you can buy from a mainland dealer for hundreds less then definitely buy where it makes sense.
But for 50 bucks, keep the local gun shops in business.

It's the LGS that will help you when you have questions.
It's at those local shops where you'll go and shoot the sh!t and discuss how much you hate certain politicians.
If these shops are shut down because everyone decided to save a few dollars and support some mainland dealer, then shame on you.

Live local, buy local. 

Just a side note back on original thread topic...

I've been asking around from the sources that had informed me of the problems with regards to the op rod issues of the PWS rifles.  It seems that with the exception of one rifle that had a rod failure (contrary to a previous poster who said Stacey at PWS claims it has never failed) who posted pics of the failure and PWS fixed the rifle almost immediately, nobody has managed to come up with another case of this kind of failure on the weapon system. 

I just think it would be a jerk move for me to find this out and not post it because I had raised concerns before.

 

I think the engineering and design on the diablos is awesome.  Only issue was op rod failures.  I had heard that they would start being cryogenic hardened which would reduce the chance of a failure.  Our concern is that through personal experience I saw an op rod break and pierce the top rail if the receiver headed straight for the shooters face.  It stopped short embedded in the aimpoint T1.  Until I am convinced this has been a rectified issue I'm wary.  That being said the failures are isolated incidents and it's just a personal choice to make sure that's fixed before carrying the rifle at OGC.

Hello to the 2aHawaii Forum and its members.

I would like to thank every PWS Rifle, upper, and accessory owner in the Islands for your amazing support of the MK114 and other PWS products.  It is very exciting to see so many people thrilled with your products and how the word of mouth spreads like wild fire when that product impresses its new owner.
This being said it is disheartening and frankly sad when someone posts incorrect (everyone makes a mistake) or worse yet, fabricated misinformation in order to try and dirty a particular product, manufacturer or their dealer's reputation in the eyes of those that read this forum.

As a result of the above post, I would like to ask the posting party for OGC Tactical to produce documentaion of this failure of an op-rod piercing the top rail or admit that their post is completely fabricated and untrue. 

If anyone here has any questions about the quality and reliability of our products, you can contact me directly at the following.

PWS Inc
Mr. Stacey Nagy
stacey@primaryweapons.com
208-344-5217 ext 206

Thanks for dropping by PWS. It's always nice to have a manufacturer reaching out to its customers. You guys also make some great and innovative products.

As OGC stated in his last post, he was wrong in his earlier post regarding the op rod failures. I am glad to hear that the PWS system is working well and properly.

I'm curious as to how accurate "piston" ARs are versus a direct impingement system.

Considering it happened right on the range at the designated marksman course last year at Kbay I'm pretty sure I'll be able to oblige.  I'll ask for pictures and post when I get them.  I never saw the rifle in person but did see the pictures and certainly believed them.  I'll get back when possible.

 I'm not trying to bash the product, in fact I've posted quite the opposite.  But it's put up or shut up on me so I'll dig into it.

Quote from: OGC on April 13, 2011, 07:47:07 AM

I think the engineering and design on the diablos is awesome.  Only issue was op rod failures.  I had heard that they would start being cryogenic hardened which would reduce the chance of a failure.  Our concern is that through personal experience I saw an op rod break and pierce the top rail if the receiver headed straight for the shooters face.  It stopped short embedded in the aimpoint T1.  Until I am convinced this has been a rectified issue I'm wary.  That being said the failures are isolated incidents and it's just a personal choice to make sure that's fixed before carrying the rifle at OGC.

Hello to the 2aHawaii Forum and its members.

I would like to thank every PWS Rifle, upper, and accessory owner in the Islands for your amazing support of the MK114 and other PWS products.  It is very exciting to see so many people thrilled with your products and how the word of mouth spreads like wild fire when that product impresses its new owner.
This being said it is disheartening and frankly sad when someone posts incorrect (everyone makes a mistake) or worse yet, fabricated misinformation in order to try and dirty a particular product, manufacturer or their dealer's reputation in the eyes of those that read this forum.

As a result of the above post, I would like to ask the posting party for OGC Tactical to produce documentaion of this failure of an op-rod piercing the top rail or admit that their post is completely fabricated and untrue. 

If anyone here has any questions about the quality and reliability of our products, you can contact me directly at the following.

PWS Inc
Mr. Stacey Nagy
stacey@primaryweapons.com
208-344-5217 ext 206

I'm curious as to how accurate "piston" ARs are versus a direct impingement system.

The consensus among many shooters experienced with both DI and Piston weapons is that accuracy is not affected by piston operation as the weapon has fired and the bullet has cleared the bore before the piston is even pressurised and begins moving.  As a manufacturer, our own experience has shown us that barrel quality and twist rate is 95% of a weapons accuracy in regards to 5.56 from 55gr to 77 gr.  That is of course when comparing barrel length to equal barrel length.  I hope this helps.

Wow, its good to see the put up or shut up directly from the manufacturer.

I've been considering buying the PWS rifle in 7.62x39 as my next purchase.
How does it hold up to the old milsurp ammo as well as the steel cased Russian stuff?

I know my Mini 30 doesn't like steel cased ammo and I'm forced to shoot brass cased ammo in it.

Have there been any extensive testing with any or all of the cheap ammo out there?   

Wow, its good to see the put up or shut up directly from the manufacturer.

I've been considering buying the PWS rifle in 7.62x39 as my next purchase.
How does it hold up to the old milsurp ammo as well as the steel cased Russian stuff?

I know my Mini 30 doesn't like steel cased ammo and I'm forced to shoot brass cased ammo in it.

Have there been any extensive testing with any or all of the cheap ammo out there?   

The MK114 in 7.62X39 was developed and tested to be used with Wolf, or any of the other common steel cased ammunition available.  In 7.62X39 AR platforms in the past, steel cased ammo has been cited as the cause for broken extractors.  We have not seen this in our bolt and we believe it to be due to the fact that we took the print for a 6.5 Grendel bolt and re-engineered it for use with 7.62X39.  We've seen one isolated case of a broken extractor in over 2 years of production. 

Wolf, Golden Tiger and other steel cased 7.62X39 has been used with our MK107 and MK114 uppers and rifles in 7.62X39.  All this aside, I really do recommend not using the old mil surp stuff that is floating around that is corrosive.  Yes, all surfaces in our weapons are either corrosion proofed through finish or through the type of alloy used, but there is no reason to run that highly corrosive ammo with all the choices in 7.62X39.
I hope this helps and thank you for the support.

Bump

Bump

What exactly are you bumping?

Quote from: Steel Rule on September 15, 2011, 06:23:25 AM

Bump

What exactly are you bumping?

I swear i was going to ask that exact same question this morning when i read the bump.

i went back in the thread to see what was for sale.

Quote from: Steel Rule on September 15, 2011, 06:23:25 AM

Bump

What exactly are you bumping?

Bumping for more info...

I was looking into picking one of these up, so I wanted to learn more about this particular rifle...

Are "bumps" reserved for sales? If so my bad...

Are "bumps" reserved for sales? If so my bad...

Not that I know of, but it looks as if this thread is dead...

Eh Steel Rule I think Gun Source had these for sale a while back.....

By the way, howz the family doing?

Quote from: vooduchikn on September 15, 2011, 10:19:39 AM

Quote from: Steel Rule on September 15, 2011, 06:23:25 AM

Bump

What exactly are you bumping?

Bumping for more info...

I was looking into picking one of these up, so I wanted to learn more about this particular rifle...

Well they seem to be OK.  My one concern with that rifle is if you have that in pieces and step on that op rod, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole bolt carrier needs to go back to PWS to be repaired.  On the plus side, it seems to be a pretty light piston rifle.......maybe one of the lightest out there?