Open letter to Greg Knudsen (Read 20123 times)

hnl.flyboy

Re: Open letter to Greg Knudsen
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2013, 08:18:33 PM »
youtube is our friend:



Oh, damn, Sgt Esparza!  Good guy, knows his stuff!   :thumbsup:
LEX MALLA, LEX NULLA

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Heavies

Re: Open letter to Greg Knudsen
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2013, 09:07:36 PM »
Ok...  I've found the culprit!  We can now get everything back to normal.... 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sfBIiTQT6jA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DsfBIiTQT6jA

BigBlue

Re: Open letter to Greg Knudsen
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2013, 11:15:55 PM »
Doesn't have to be commercial.  For example, if someone uses a pic they took of you in public as part of a political ad, and you didn't sign a release, they are liable and have to remove your image from the ad or stop running it.

I assume most would understand I mean commercial purposes to be inclusive of advertising.

The main exemptions to requiring a release are public figures (Huskey v. NBC, 1956) and newsworthy events (Time v. Hill, 1976)

When we talk about lacking a "reasonable expectation to privacy", people are referring to Forster v Manchester (1963) where the court basically stated that if you can be observed from a public thoroughfare you cannot object to surveillance. So if you're at a public range you cannot object to being photographed, even if you are not a public figure (which has no clear legal definition) and are not newsworthy (ditto).

Politicians are public figures and most of what they do is probably considered newsworthy (for better or worse), so that's why they don't need model releases to run opponent photos in attack ads.

Yes if someone took a photo of me and prominently used it as an ad "Big Blue wants to take your guns away, that's why he supports proposition 3738, so should you! Think of the children!", then I could sue. I'd have to consult a suitably experienced privacy lawyer but my suit would likely be based under either False Light and/or Misappropriation of Likeness (privacy torts).

However if I attended a rally, and happened to be in a photo (say behind Obama in some GOP ad) that was used - I likely would not have much of a case. Per Faloona v. Hustler the publisher would be liable for any damages I sustained; but given the use of the photo was not really focused on appropriating my likeness for their message, it would be very challenging for me to demonstrate any damages.

So as to whether or not a model release would be required for a political ad.. It would depend. 99% of advertising and stock it's irrelevant since no agency will buy photos without the releases anyway, including most pro-political ads which I'm sure they gather the releases from the smiling supporters.

This is not legal advice. I am not a lawyer. I do take photos.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 11:32:31 PM by BigBlue »

Darmok and Jalad @Tanagra

Re: Open letter to Greg Knudsen
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2013, 11:58:06 PM »
I assume most would understand I mean commercial purposes to be inclusive of advertising.

The main exemptions to requiring a release are public figures (Huskey v. NBC, 1956) and newsworthy events (Time v. Hill, 1976)

When we talk about lacking a "reasonable expectation to privacy", people are referring to Forster v Manchester (1963) where the court basically stated that if you can be observed from a public thoroughfare you cannot object to surveillance. So if you're at a public range you cannot object to being photographed, even if you are not a public figure (which has no clear legal definition) and are not newsworthy (ditto).

Politicians are public figures and most of what they do is probably considered newsworthy (for better or worse), so that's why they don't need model releases to run opponent photos in attack ads.

Yes if someone took a photo of me and prominently used it as an ad "Big Blue wants to take your guns away, that's why he supports proposition 3738, so should you! Think of the children!", then I could sue. I'd have to consult a suitably experienced privacy lawyer but my suit would likely be based under either False Light and/or Misappropriation of Likeness (privacy torts).

However if I attended a rally, and happened to be in a photo (say behind Obama in some GOP ad) that was used - I likely would not have much of a case. Per Faloona v. Hustler the publisher would be liable for any damages I sustained; but given the use of the photo was not really focused on appropriating my likeness for their message, it would be very challenging for me to demonstrate any damages.

So as to whether or not a model release would be required for a political ad.. It would depend. 99% of advertising and stock it's irrelevant since no agency will buy photos without the releases anyway, including most pro-political ads which I'm sure they gather the releases from the smiling supporters.

This is not legal advice. I am not a lawyer. I do take photos.

There are a hundred hypotheticals, but this is my main point:  If the photo in question is going to be used to promote a product, service, idea, or thing, a photo release is necessary.

This doesn’t simply apply to celebrities either. All of us have a right to protect our likeness from being used against our will.

If Knudsen wants to use anyone's likeness to promote his political agenda, he should have a release.  And just blurring faces may not be sufficient, since some people wear name tags, hats, and other distinctive clothing that might contain names and company logos.  These items all have the ability to identify an individual or group just as readily as their faces.

I've taken pictures and video in an official capacity in the Air Force, so I'm a little familiar with the hoops to jump through for photo releases.

 :shaka:
"... the right to be let alone -- the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men."
--Justice Louis D. Brandeis

hdu

Re: Open letter to Greg Knudsen
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2013, 12:14:27 AM »
Unfortunately he is allowed to take picture and use them if he is taking it in a public area. The only way we can stop him is if the park/area he is taking pictures in requires a permit to do so such as some of the other parks. We should ask the range master about this or email  the parks and rec. office about safety concerns with photographers in the area taking picture of guns and the serial # which put us in the risk of identity theft and fraud.  ;)

Ryan07

Re: Open letter to Greg Knudsen
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2013, 06:19:39 AM »


There are a hundred hypotheticals, but this is my main point:  If the photo in question is going to be used to promote a product, service, idea, or thing, a photo release is necessary.

This doesn’t simply apply to celebrities either. All of us have a right to protect our likeness from being used against our will.

If Knudsen wants to use anyone's likeness to promote his political agenda, he should have a release.  And just blurring faces may not be sufficient, since some people wear name tags, hats, and other distinctive clothing that might contain names and company logos.  These items all have the ability to identify an individual or group just as readily as their faces.

I've taken pictures and video in an official capacity in the Air Force, so I'm a little familiar with the hoops to jump through for photo releases.

 :shaka:

If your likeness is appeaing in the pictures Knudsen has posted, then get a lawyer if you think you can win. If not, identify the individuas in the phitis and help them with finding an attorney. I'm with BigBlue, you won't get anywhere with this.

Ryan07

Re: Open letter to Greg Knudsen
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2013, 06:25:27 AM »
Unfortunately he is allowed to take picture and use them if he is taking it in a public area. The only way we can stop him is if the park/area he is taking pictures in requires a permit to do so such as some of the other parks. We should ask the range master about this or email  the parks and rec. office about safety concerns with photographers in the area taking picture of guns and the serial # which put us in the risk of identity theft and fraud.  ;)

There is no reason to stop people from taking pictures.  I'm not sure how the serial number of your firearm puts you at risk for identity theft. Also not sure how a camera in the area all of a sudden would make for an unsafe shooting environment.?

hdu

Re: Open letter to Greg Knudsen
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2013, 09:47:16 AM »
There is no reason to stop people from taking pictures.  I'm not sure how the serial number of your firearm puts you at risk for identity theft. Also not sure how a camera in the area all of a sudden would make for an unsafe shooting environment.?

Well let me put it this way. If you have a person S/N and the use of the Internet you can get a person  Name, SS, DOB, Address all in one crack. As this info is on record both with  the State and the Feds. 

It can lead to unsafe conditions as you put the shooters under more pressure

new guy

Re: Open letter to Greg Knudsen
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2013, 12:32:50 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 09:08:58 PM by new guy »
Your mindset is your primary weapon. - Jeff Cooper

hdu

Re: Open letter to Greg Knudsen
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2013, 02:53:18 PM »
With just a name (first and last) and the internet, you can pretty much find anyone's age and address, here in Hawaii.

I don't mean some special search engine that you need to subscribe to, either.

Sadly, criminals do it all the time.

Yup that's how crazy/sad things are now days.

Q

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« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2013, 02:58:54 PM »
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« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 08:47:55 PM by Q »

Rocky

Re: Open letter to Greg Knudsen
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2013, 07:36:40 PM »
Anybody even think that perhaps these may have been associates of Knudson ?
Can get any pic scenario I want !
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

Heavies

Re: Open letter to Greg Knudsen
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2013, 03:11:44 AM »
Anybody even think that perhaps these may have been associates of Knudson ?
Can get any pic scenario I want !

The people he captured are avid shooters, they are not accomplices.  I doubt he had permission to use their images for his anti gun agenda.

rswarrior1700

Re: Open letter to Greg Knudsen
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2013, 10:50:39 PM »
Just got a question...

1. Does old Greg here wants to close the range down ?
2. Or he wants there safety provisions to prevent stray bullets flying all over?

Q

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« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2013, 10:57:21 PM »
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« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 08:55:31 PM by Q »

ren

Re: Open letter to Greg Knudsen
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2013, 11:05:55 PM »
His story changes on a week to week basis.
 
My guess: he is a liberal communist/fascist who thinks guns are evil just because it's one of king barry's talking points. If the dems supported gun rights, he probably would not have any problem with the range, regardless of the 'bullet flying past his head', which he knows, not assumes, was a bullet because his brother/friend/whatever REMF was in Vietnam and knows what bullets sound like.
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