BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision (Read 10976 times)

2aHawaii

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3629
  • Total likes: 67
  • Sheepdog
  • Referrals: 17
    • View Profile
    • 2aHawaii
BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« on: February 21, 2014, 03:40:51 PM »
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Peruta/SDSO-PR-2014-02-21.pdf

Quote
Dear Supervisors:
On Thursday February 13, 2014, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals issued an opinion in the case of Peruta, et.al v. County of San Diego, et.al concluding that the State of California's requirement of "good cause," in cases where an applicant wants a firearm for personal protection, impermissibly infringes on the Second Amendment right to bear arms in lawful self-defense. In its opinion, the Ninth Circuit defined the issue on appeal as "whether a responsible, law-abiding citizen has a right under the Second Amendment to carry a firearm in public for self-defense." In so doing, the Ninth Circuit took an exhaustive look at the history of jurisprudence surrounding the Second Amendment, and more specifically what it means to "bear arms." It is clear, given the 2-1 split in this opinion, as well as the split among Federal Circuits across the Country, that there is no easy answer on which everyone will agree.
 
The decision by the Ninth Circuit has found that the Second Amendment requires that states permit some form of firearm carry for self-defense outside the home. Additionally, the Ninth Circuit went on to emphasize that "nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession '—or carriage—' of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.”

Since becoming Sheriff, I have always maintained that it is the legislature's responsibility to make the laws, and the judiciary's responsibility to interpret them and their constitutionality. Law enforcement's role is to uphold and enforce the law. The legislature certainly has the power to amend California's firearm carry process, and the Ninth Circuit has the ability to bring its own motion to rehear the decision of the three member panel en banc. However, while the court's decision clearly involves a question of exceptional importance, and conflicts with decisions of other United States Courts of Appeals, the opinion provides clear guidance in the context of issuing CCWs in California.

Therefore, I see no need for me to petition for a hearing or rehearing en banc in order to be able to carry out my duties as Sheriff of San Diego County. As a result, I have advised the Office of County Counsel that I will not seek such a hearing.

Should the decision of the Ninth Circuit become final, the Sheriff's Department will begin to issue CCW's in situations where the applicant has met all other lawful qualifications and has requested a CCW for purposes of self-defense.
I am not a lawyer.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - United States Constitution Amendment 2 & Hawaii State Constitution Article 1 Section 17

Buying from Amazon? Click through here

causa mortis

Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2014, 03:59:25 PM »
Great news. I predict CCW in Hawaii before the middle of 2015.

2aHawaii

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3629
  • Total likes: 67
  • Sheepdog
  • Referrals: 17
    • View Profile
    • 2aHawaii
Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2014, 04:07:24 PM »
According to a post I read on calguns, the case will be remanded back to the federal court on March 6th.
I am not a lawyer.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - United States Constitution Amendment 2 & Hawaii State Constitution Article 1 Section 17

Buying from Amazon? Click through here

punaperson

Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2014, 05:14:44 PM »
And the press release from the San Diego County Sheriff's Department also included this paragraph for if and when the Peruta decision is upheld:

"Additionally, those seeking a CCW are advised that the process for obtaining a CCW
involves several steps. The application process includes a scheduled interview, payment of fees,
as well as state and local background checks. Successful completion of a firearms course of
training
is also required. This process can take several months." [Emphasis added]

Who conducts the interview? What is the nature of it? Psychological? Physical capacity and abilities? And no mention of the details of the "course of training"... I'm guessing they're making that up as we read... I wonder how long "several" is?

The full press release is here: http://www.calgunlaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Press-Release-on-Peruta.pdf

I also heard today that the Orange County Sheriff said she will start to issue CCWs in accord with the Peruta ruling. No mention of the qualification standards.

punaperson

Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2014, 05:30:44 PM »
Here's a bit more on the Orange County Sheriff moving to "shall issue" based upon the Peruta Ninth Circuit panel decision:

The Orange County sheriff loosened requirements Wednesday for obtaining a concealed-weapons permit in light of a recent federal appellate court decision that deemed many urban counties in California to be overly restrictive in saying who can and can’t carry a concealed weapon.

Local applicants seeking a permit to carry a concealed weapon now only have to say that they need one for self-defense or personal safety. Previously, applicants were required to prove “good cause,” a standard that typically limited concealed weapons in Orange County to people who carry large sums of cash or valuables, or who could prove an existing mortal threat.

“Bottom line is the sheriff is going to abide by the law,” said Lt. Jeff Hallock, a spokesman for O.C. Sheriff Sandra Hutchens.

“Before the court’s decision, good cause was something that was evaluated by the sheriff. What she considers good cause may not be same as Los Angeles, Riverside or San Diego as good cause. But in looking at the decision, some of the subjectiveness is taken out of it.”

[And this...]

Getting a two-year standard concealed weapon permit in California still requires passing a background check and a posting fee of $195.22, and completing 16 hours of class time on carrying and shooting weapons.

[No mention of the cost of renewal... but the initial cost, with the class time, would likely be around $300... kinda pricey for lower income people.]

Full article: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/sheriff-602509-concealed-county.html

Sheriff statement on their website: http://ocsd.org/about/info/services/ccw

Looking more at the Orange County Sheriff website, they now require an approved course of instruction for renewal... and an application fee. Doesn't say if that renewal fee is another $195, or if the class is the same class repeated again.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 05:36:20 PM by punaperson »

kekoa

Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2014, 05:58:25 PM »
"Should the decision of the Ninth Circuit become final"

What could prevent this from not becoming final in the ninth circuit?

2aHawaii

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3629
  • Total likes: 67
  • Sheepdog
  • Referrals: 17
    • View Profile
    • 2aHawaii
Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2014, 06:05:30 PM »
"Should the decision of the Ninth Circuit become final"

What could prevent this from not becoming final in the ninth circuit?


Apparently a judge can say something to prevent it from becoming final. Not certain on that though. Anyone else have more info?
I am not a lawyer.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - United States Constitution Amendment 2 & Hawaii State Constitution Article 1 Section 17

Buying from Amazon? Click through here

OldFaithful

Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2014, 06:15:32 PM »
Great update. When should we expect the decision to be finalized?  Chris' decision comes soon too right?  And then that confirmed like this one.

macsak

Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2014, 06:24:28 PM »
I have a friend that works at the Atty. Gen.'s office he has an interesting take on this.
He wishes that the Supreme Court got the case since it is conservative right now.
In a few years that will not be the case.
He would rather have the Supreme Court confirm it now rather than risking a liberal court making a different decision later

punaperson

Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2014, 09:48:42 PM »
"Should the decision of the Ninth Circuit become final"

What could prevent this from not becoming final in the ninth circuit?
I believe that around March 6 the Ninth Circuit will decide if they want an en banc review (which is what the San Diego County sheriff in Peruta could have requested but chose not to), which would be 11 randomly chosen judges (a majority, or minimum of 15 of the 29 judges in the Ninth Circuit would need to vote for en banc) ruling on the 3 judge panel ruling, either sustaining it, or overturning it after a full hearing with arguments presented by both sides. I have no idea what the time frame or limitations are, if any, on an en banc review. I heard Ken Klukowski, the senior legal analyst at Breitbart say that he thought due to the heavily liberal weighting of the whole court that it'd be likely to be overturned en banc. But who knows which 11 judges would be selected for en banc? It could go any way.

"The court’s decision does not become final until 1) the panel issues a decision, 2) the circuit judges determine whether to rehear the case, 3) all appeals have passed, and 4) any circumstances that would delay a final decision have subsided. For example, a petition for panel rehearing or rehearing en banc will prevent the court from issuing mandate. An appeal to the Supreme Court for writ of certiorari will do the same. The court of appeals may also stay mandate pending certain motions, such as a motion for a new trial, or for relief from a judgment or order."

Lots of details of the rather complex process can be found in this document:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&ved=0CEsQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fworks.bepress.com%2Fcontext%2Fabigail_stecker%2Farticle%2F1001%2Ftype%2Fnative%2Fviewcontent&ei=A1AIU9jwJo7loATSmIH4AQ&usg=AFQjCNHO4CoAGLAwbMG8D29-vEslWqYmlQ&bvm=bv.61725948,d.cGU

punaperson

Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2014, 09:58:40 PM »
I have a friend that works at the Atty. Gen.'s office he has an interesting take on this.
He wishes that the Supreme Court got the case since it is conservative right now.
In a few years that will not be the case.
He would rather have the Supreme Court confirm it now rather than risking a liberal court making a different decision later
Legal scholar Steven Halbrook believes Peruta could be available as a possible selection for SCOTUS in either 2015 or 2016, depending on what happens with the Ninth Circuit en banc procedure. He said that Peruta is "clean" in that it only involves one issue, whereas some of the other cases being appealed to SCOTUS have multiple issues involved. He also said that because Paul Clement is attorney for Peruta that the Court would likely select that case due to the fact that they find attorneys for some of the other cases to present weak/arcane/bizarre legal arguments (e.g. Alan Gura... NOT mentioned by name by Halbrook).

Pretty much we just have to sit around and wait. Peruta filed his case in 2009. What're a couple more years?  :crazy:

OldFaithful

Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2014, 10:13:26 PM »
Legal scholar Steven Halbrook believes Peruta could be available as a possible selection for SCOTUS in either 2015 or 2016, depending on what happens with the Ninth Circuit en banc procedure. He said that Peruta is "clean" in that it only involves one issue, whereas some of the other cases being appealed to SCOTUS have multiple issues involved. He also said that because Paul Clement is attorney for Peruta that the Court would likely select that case due to the fact that they find attorneys for some of the other cases to present weak/arcane/bizarre legal arguments (e.g. Alan Gura... NOT mentioned by name by Halbrook).

Pretty much we just have to sit around and wait. Peruta filed his case in 2009. What're a couple more years?  :crazy:

Hopefully he's wrong and it just gets affirmed lol.  Everyone's waited long enough

Funtimes

Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2014, 10:14:32 PM »
According to a post I read on calguns, the case will be remanded back to the federal court on March 6th.

Well, maybe...  What they are saying is now the judges themselves can also ask for rehearing.  This just takes one justice to call for a vote.  They vote yes or no - then they would re-hear based on that outcome.
Check out the Hawaii Defense Foundation.
HDF on Facebook
Defender of the Accused in Arkansas Courts
Posts are not legal advice & are my own, unless said so.

punaperson

Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2014, 10:24:16 PM »
Hopefully he's wrong and it just gets affirmed lol.  Everyone's waited long enough
Speaking of waiting... here's a comment someone wrote (so I have no idea if it is accurate or not) re San Diego County Sheriff Gore saying IF Peruta is upheld and finalized, he will start the process of issuing CCW without the prior requirements for "good cause" as he had created them:

"They're dragging their feet as much as possible. You have to start by making an appointment for an initial interview. They only do four a day. My appointment is in July. That's five months just to get started. At that time, if they decide to let you move forward, you have to come in a second time with the application, a check, documentation, proof of training, etc. Then, they'll make you wait longer until they actually issue. Someone is going to have to sue very soon, because as soon as people start applying en masse, they'll be told to wait YEARS."

Here's some math:
Population of San Diego County: 3.2 million
If One Percent of those residents request CCW, that's: 32,000 requests
Four interviews per day: If they do interviews 7 days a week, the last person on the list will be interviewed in 21.9 YEARS; If they interview 5 days per week, the last person on the list will be interviewed in 29.6 YEARS.

Good thing the courts cleared up that "good cause" problem!
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 10:42:05 PM by punaperson »

OldFaithful

Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2014, 10:25:32 PM »
From what I understand, they have until March 6th to decide whether to do en banc or not.  Like Chris just said, if one calls for a vote, the majority of that vote outcome decides what happens. 

Funtimes

Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2014, 12:09:57 AM »
Dave Kopel also pointed out that while he said he won't request re-hearing, there is little mention of or of not petitioning to the Supreme Court.
Check out the Hawaii Defense Foundation.
HDF on Facebook
Defender of the Accused in Arkansas Courts
Posts are not legal advice & are my own, unless said so.

punaperson

Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2014, 06:40:55 AM »
Dave Kopel also pointed out that while he said he won't request re-hearing, there is little mention of or of not petitioning to the Supreme Court.
I have to wonder who is "advising" the sheriff. This is a major case and I'm sure the "powers that be" are not leaving the litigation future of this issue up to some county sheriff. Illinois attorney general Madigan chose NOT to appeal Seventh Circuit Moore v. Madigan to the Supreme Court in order to avoid a "bad" outcome (SCOTUS support of "bear"/carry). I'm guessing this isn't over yet, and we may have a few more years of "waiting". I want to see the Baker v. Kealoha decision soon. Maybe they'll just issue something that says "Ditto... just substitute "exceptional case" for "good cause"."

230RN

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1529
  • Total likes: 71
  • But they're [u]supposed[/u] to be military-style!
  • Referrals: 2
    • View Profile
Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2014, 06:53:12 AM »
punaperson remarked parenthetically,

Quote
[No mention of the cost of renewal... but the initial cost, with the class time, would likely be around $300... kinda pricey for lower income people.]
I'm waiting for that to become a legal issue as well.  To me, there is a "pattern of behavior" which results in de facto, actual, and genuine infringement of a basic human right,  This  includes the high fees and the other difficult processes involved in obtaining permission to defend oneself in the most effective manner available.

But I ain't no lawyer, so what do I know?

Terry

« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 07:01:14 AM by 230RN »
I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

Funtimes

Re: BREAKING: San Diego Sheriff will not appeal Peruta decision
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2014, 12:50:45 PM »
punaperson remarked parenthetically,
I'm waiting for that to become a legal issue as well.  To me, there is a "pattern of behavior" which results in de facto, actual, and genuine infringement of a basic human right,  This  includes the high fees and the other difficult processes involved in obtaining permission to defend oneself in the most effective manner available.

But I ain't no lawyer, so what do I know?

Terry

Fees are being litigated in New York currently; I think we lost the first round and it is making it's way through to appeals.  This was also under the presumption that CCW was still not a 'civil right.'
Check out the Hawaii Defense Foundation.
HDF on Facebook
Defender of the Accused in Arkansas Courts
Posts are not legal advice & are my own, unless said so.