1 is there a need for CCW in Hawaiii?

Define"need". Clearly explain how your definition of need has any causal connection or relationship, or even correlation, with CCW and self-defense.

 Is CCW a need or a want?

Define your terms. Clearly explain what the definitions you offer have to do with CCW and self-defense.

I'm not here to convince or persuade anyone. 

How would you characterize what you are doing here? It seems you're making judgments and evaluations based upon the fact that people disagree with you on factual data and don't subscribe to your belief system.

Let's just present facts, discuss and let people make their own decisions free from criticism.

If you choose to quote the "bible" you ipso facto have chosen to ignore the very concept of "facts".
 
 if there is a need (necessary) are there statistics to warrant the need? 

What statistic(s) would satisfy your criteria for their being a "sufficient" "need (necessary)" [sic]?

Crime in Hawaii has generally been on the decline without CCW.  gun ownership is up.  So do we need CCW?

Please clearly explain how the declining crime rate has any bearing on the issue of individuals being legally allowed to carry a weapon outside their property for the purpose of self-defense. Please refrain from quoting your "bible".

  I am trying to be objective. 

Really? That's laughable. Anyone who quotes the "bible" as authority for anything hasn't the foggiest notion of what "objectivity" is. You may be "trying", but you are failing miserably.

I have asked the so called experts or proponents of CCW and have not seen anything substantial other than its what they want cuz they feel it's their right.   

You have "not seen anything substantial" in all the DGU data and other information presented because your a priori assumptions and beliefs and biases are so strong that you are incapable of reasoning. This lack of critical thinking skills, including the ability to evaluate evidence, is further borne out by your unwarranted belief that your "bible" is somehow authoritative in spite of all the evidence clearly showing that it is nothing but a collection of fables and myths mostly from a pre-literate culture that has since been added to, deleted from, edited, and changed in many ways, both in content and language meanings whenever it suited the power-controlling needs of the clerical bureaucrats who could intimidate and scare the ignorant masses by threats of "hell" and various kinds of torture (e.g. burning at the stake) if a person questioned the bureaucrats "authority" in any way (e.g. the earth revolves around the sun). Someone could just as meaningfully quote the Spiderman or Star Trek archives, but anyone who took their blabber of "authoritative" quotes seriously is equally deluded and incapable of critical thinking or evidence evaluation.

And that's ok too.     I actually agree, it's their right.  I was just curious as to why they felt the need, or if there was a need.

Again, your back to the "need" issue. Define it. And explain what kind of "need", and how any kind of "need" would meet your criteria for sufficiency for CCW.


2 does the Bible say we can kill others if we feel threatened?  I haven't seen it.

As we all know, anyone can "see" anything they want in the "bible". Anyone can justify anything they want using that mythological collection of fairy tales as an "authority". Whatever you see or don't see there has no bearing on the issue of CCW to anyone other than yourself or other deluded believers in such nonsense.

Do you NEED a fire extinguisher?  How many times have you been at home and the room caught fire?
Do you NEED an airbag in your car?  How many times have your cars been in collisions and the airbag deployed?
Do you NEED a police force?  How many times have you needed to call the police to protect you from an immediate threat?
Do you NEED life insurance?  After all, life insurance does YOU no good.  It only helps the beneficiaries of the policy.
Do you NEED a first aid kit at home, at work and in the car?  How many times have you used one to save a life?
Do you NEED to learn CPR?  How many heart attacks have you saved anyone from?
Do you NEED to learn how to swim?  How many times have you needed to jump into the water and save a drowning kid?
Do you NEED to finish high school?  Look at all the successful dropouts in the country.
Do you NEED to go to the dentist twice a year?  You can always buy dentures when the time comes.

Do you NEED to carry a gun?  The majority of the people will never have to use their concealed firearm.  Would you rather have it and never NEED it, or NEED it and not have one?

Do you NEED a fire extinguisher?  How many times have you been at home and the room caught fire?
Do you NEED an airbag in your car?  How many times have your cars been in collisions and the airbag deployed?
Do you NEED a police force?  How many times have you needed to call the police to protect you from an immediate threat?
Do you NEED life insurance?  After all, life insurance does YOU no good.  It only helps the beneficiaries of the policy.
Do you NEED a first aid kit at home, at work and in the car?  How many times have you used one to save a life?
Do you NEED to learn CPR?  How many heart attacks have you saved anyone from?
Do you NEED to learn how to swim?  How many times have you needed to jump into the water and save a drowning kid?
Do you NEED to finish high school?  Look at all the successful dropouts in the country.
Do you NEED to go to the dentist twice a year?  You can always buy dentures when the time comes.

Do you NEED to carry a gun?  The majority of the people will never have to use their concealed firearm.  Would you rather have it and never NEED it, or NEED it and not have one?

sure, with respect to this thread

Now that I have shared a bit about myself, please share your experience, training and qualifications also?

Do you NEED a fire extinguisher?  How many times have you been at home and the room caught fire?
Do you NEED an airbag in your car?  How many times have your cars been in collisions and the airbag deployed?
Do you NEED a police force?  How many times have you needed to call the police to protect you from an immediate threat?
Do you NEED life insurance?  After all, life insurance does YOU no good.  It only helps the beneficiaries of the policy.
Do you NEED a first aid kit at home, at work and in the car?  How many times have you used one to save a life?
Do you NEED to learn CPR?  How many heart attacks have you saved anyone from?
Do you NEED to learn how to swim?  How many times have you needed to jump into the water and save a drowning kid?
Do you NEED to finish high school?  Look at all the successful dropouts in the country.
Do you NEED to go to the dentist twice a year?  You can always buy dentures when the time comes.

Do you NEED to carry a gun?  The majority of the people will never have to use their concealed firearm.  Would you rather have it and never NEED it, or NEED it and not have one?

yes, you NEED to go to the dentist twice a year
you also NEED to brush at least 3 times a day and floss at least once a day

yes, you NEED to go to the dentist twice a year
you also NEED to brush at least 3 times a day and floss at least once a day

Yep. I'm pretty sure that is in the "bible". The "bible" of the American Dental Association. You know, the people who advocate for "Crest". Completely objective.

i skipped the smiley face because i thought it would be understood that i was saying it tongue-in-cheek
i guess i assumed incorrectly

I skipped the smiley face because i thought it would be understood that i was saying it sarcastically.
I guess i assumed incorrectly. 

I would say that the need for CCW in Hawaii stems from it being a right. Since I may not need to use the "right" right now, doesn't mean it should be taken away.

Your need is based on  your want to exercise your right, but are there any other reasons?  Like if you were getting robbed or raped, I would say there may be a need.   For example, now, our chief of police SHOULD make a determination based on REASON of applicants who FEAR injury of person or property.  Any reasons?

In my opinion, we may have reached (passed?) that point in time for participants to say, "you aren't going to convince me, and I'm not going to convince you... so, let's just agree to disagree on this issue and move on."

Define"need". Clearly explain how your definition of need has any causal connection or relationship, or even correlation, with CCW and self-defense.
please see any dictionary? really any othese can do, but #4 fits the best.  is there any necessity arising from any circumstance of a situation or case that justifies CCW in Hawaii
need  -noun 
1. a requirement, necessary duty, or obligation: There is no need for you to go there. 
2. a lack of something wanted or deemed necessary: to fulfill the needs of the assignment. 
3. urgent want, as of something requisite: He has no need of your charity. 
4. necessity arising from the circumstances of a situation or case: There is no need to worry. 
5. a situation or time of difficulty; exigency: to help a friend in need; to be a friend in need.   

Define your terms. Clearly explain what the definitions you offer have to do with CCW and self-defense.
for example, are there statistics that depict a large enough problem in Hawaii [that a gun can solve] to warrant every citizen being allowed to carry a concealed firearm?

How would you characterize what you are doing here? It seems you're making judgments and evaluations based upon the fact that people disagree with you on factual data and don't subscribe to your belief system.
expressing my opinion, and trying to understand if there are reasons to support CCW in Hawaii.  my opinions is not based on the fact that people disagree with me or my beliefs..     

If you choose to quote the "bible" you ipso facto have chosen to ignore the very concept of "facts".
  I believe in GOD and the bible contains fact.  my choice.  you can do whatever you want.       

What statistic(s) would satisfy your criteria for their being a "sufficient" "need (necessary)" [sic]?
see above   

Please clearly explain how the declining crime rate has any bearing on the issue of individuals being legally allowed to carry a weapon outside their property for the purpose of self-defense. Please refrain from quoting your "bible".
have you read any of the other posts?  Its others opinion that CCW reduces crime rates.  Im saying crime rates are reduced anyway, independent of CCW.     

Really? That's laughable. Anyone who quotes the "bible" as authority for anything hasn't the foggiest notion of what "objectivity" is. You may be "trying", but you are failing miserably.
yes, youre laughable.  what do you believe in?  I think youre failing at this post.   

You have "not seen anything substantial" in all the DGU data and other information presented because your a priori assumptions and beliefs and biases are so strong that you are incapable of reasoning. This lack of critical thinking skills, including the ability to evaluate evidence, is further borne out by your unwarranted belief that your "bible" is somehow authoritative in spite of all the evidence clearly showing that it is nothing but a collection of fables and myths mostly from a pre-literate culture that has since been added to, deleted from, edited, and changed in many ways, both in content and language meanings whenever it suited the power-controlling needs of the clerical bureaucrats who could intimidate and scare the ignorant masses by threats of "hell" and various kinds of torture (e.g. burning at the stake) if a person questioned the bureaucrats "authority" in any way (e.g. the earth revolves around the sun). Someone could just as meaningfully quote the Spiderman or Star Trek archives, but anyone who took their blabber of "authoritative" quotes seriously is equally deluded and incapable of critical thinking or evidence evaluation.
sorry, I haven't, care to site specifically which data I am supposed to be convinced by?  I thought you were confused about even basic definitions of terminology?  how did you come up with this gem?  you can think of the bible that way,and if you read my posts, I explain that.   lol smh.    star trek n spiderman- well u seem spacey to me     

Again, your back to the "need" issue. Define it. And explain what kind of "need", and how any kind of "need" would meet your criteria for sufficiency for CCW.
please read above, I don't like repeating

As we all know, anyone can "see" anything they want in the "bible". Anyone can justify anything they want using that mythological collection of fairy tales as an "authority". Whatever you see or don't see there has no bearing on the issue of CCW to anyone other than yourself or other deluded believers in such nonsense.
we all?  I dont agree.  the question was simply "does the bible say we can kill others when we feel threatened?"   

Your need is based on  your want to exercise your right, but are there any other reasons?  Like if you were getting robbed or raped, I would say there may be a need.   For example, now, our chief of police SHOULD make a determination based on REASON of applicants who FEAR injury of person or property.  Any reasons?

You jumped from my need for it to be allowed to whether it should be limited in some fashion or not. I answered the first question as to need and why it should be allowed.
need is defined as follows:
1. a requirement, necessary duty, or obligation: There is no need for you to go there. 
2. a lack of something wanted or deemed necessary: to fulfill the needs of the assignment. 
3. urgent want, as of something requisite: He has no need of your charity. 
4. necessity arising from the circumstances of a situation or case: There is no need to worry. 
5. a situation or time of difficulty; exigency: to help a friend in need; to be a friend in need.   
so how did you address need?

If you want to say that I only need to be carrying WHILE I am being robbed or raped, well it's kinda to late. Really think about that one. Really.
the same argument applies to these statements.  yes its too late for all of these but, do you carry around extinguishers, and first aid kits, etc?  really think about that one.
Do you NEED a fire extinguisher?  No, but even if I did, you wont see me carrying one around just incase there were fires.  Now if I came across fires everyday, then I would carry it everyday.
Do you NEED an airbag in your car?  According to the government I do, they are in my newer cars n trucks no matter what.
Do you NEED a police force?  Me personally, No, but its not my choice.
Do you NEED life insurance?  No, but if were going to die soon, I'd wish I bought some so my family would be set.
Do you NEED a first aid kit at home, at work and in the car?  Yes, yes, no.  But you wont see me carrying one around cuz I dont need bandaids that often.
Do you NEED to learn CPR?  No,  but if I was interested in saving lives, or had friends/family with heart conditions, I would learn.
Do you NEED to learn how to swim? No, but I grew up here so I did learn. 
Do you NEED to finish high school?  No, but its not a good idea not to.
Do you NEED to go to the dentist twice a year? No but I do, but you wont see me carrying macsack around just in case I get a cavity.
Do you NEED to carry a gun?  The majority of the people will never have to use their concealed firearm. So based on your statement, then, no, I dont need to carry one.

The fact is, this is an abuse of power and severely limits the right. In the past it has been used for nepotism, a complete ban, and everything in between. In California, it depends on what county you live in as to whether it is even possible to get a carry permit. In Hawaii it was a de-facto ban on carrying firearms up until this past year in Kauai(?) and in Honolulu County, it still is a de-facto ban. This is the reason it needs to be "shall issue." To fight this kind of abuse in the courts just takes way too long and the type of abuse can just change with the governing powers.
I agree with you,  the right that the founding fathers had intended is to keep and bear and includes the right to carry, and by not granting, is an abuse of power.  its not the question I am asking.  im interested in good reasons to carry in Hawaii.   Do we have a big murder problem, or big rape problem, or big robbery problem in Hawaii that carrying guns would solve