Quote from: PeaShooter on May 21, 2011, 11:14:01 AM

Could you try to become a police officer for a very short time, then switch back to your normal job, in order to obtain LE carry benefits?

You need to retire with at least 10 years by (fed law), but HPD is giving people with less than 20 years a hard time in getting the ID card that is required for LEO Carry.

An idea that is progressing is the purchasing and incorporation of a city on the mainland area.  That city then hires police officers and puts them on administrative leave.  You retain your LEO status, but not your powers of arrest.  The plan is that they would charge a fee -- 1,000 -2000 dollars for this whole process or something to pay for all the paperwork.  Once you are a "leo" for a city, you can legally ccw everywhere.

Some training requirements are required to be met though.

That wont work because hawaii does not allow out of state LEOs to carry when visiting unless they are federal, or have been deputized by a local county police agency.

It's federal law -- it doesn't matter what Hawaii wants.

What they "say" you can't do, and what really can be done are totally different.  There are many laws here that are facially invalid, this would most likely be one of them.
When the Federal government says officers with xxx can carry while traveling across state lines it will fall within Federal power and the states can't claim 10th Amendment rights to prohibit that.  We really need to take a step back from what is allowed, to what is legitimately legal under the laws of the land.

For example,

The City and County of Honolulu is trying to tell me that all notaries require a stamp.  However, provisions in the United States Code say that certain signatures, when accompanied by name and title of office, are considered prima facie evidence that the signature is genuine and valid. Because the 'man' here says it's no good -- doesn't mean that it is legally not.

Try telling them that when they got steel bracelets on you and have seized all of your firearms. Everyone here knows Hawaii has a bunch of laws that are unconstitutional, but even so, breaking them is only going to add shit to the kim chee pot and turn the flames up.

Some people are far more ready to make a stand for constitutional rights then others. If I was a active police officer, would I carry in Hawaii? That answer would be yes.  Just as if national reciprocity goes through and Hawaii tries something stupid. HR 822 + Senate version goes through, you can expect that this guy will be bearing a concealed firearm in public.

Speaking of HR 822, does it even look like it's going somewhere?

Speaking of HR 822, does it even look like it's going somewhere?

It's pretty much up to the Senate now. We have to see what happens to the debt ceiling bill (DCB).  HR 822 hit 227 co-sponsors, it can pass through at any time that they need it. 
I'm not sure if the DCB is open for amendments, if and when it does, you can imagine all sorts of crap is going to fly onto it such as NPR defunding, Gay rights, Firearms, and so forth.

I would pay for the administrative costs for obtaining a CCW permit...why should we pay extra for a right to defend ourselves

THIS

Quote from: ren on May 19, 2011, 08:52:30 PM

I would pay for the administrative costs for obtaining a CCW permit...why should we pay extra for a right to defend ourselves

THIS

+1

sheet I would cough up some dough for a ccw license!  Money talks!

I would back anything that gets a gun into someones hand -- regardless of the cost.

I would then also participate in taking it down to make it equal and fair .  Foot in the door helps the game!

Would you pay for your right to free speech? How about a $1 per word? 

I think you missed the point.  Many arguments get opened up when rights are sold, so yeah, I would pay them three dollars so I could say, "You've been served, " and then collect $$$.

If CCW is *sold* there are ways to combat that. You can't just revoke permits without due process either. It would require a hearing, a trial, a way to appeal etc.

Would you pay for your right to free speech? How about a $1 per word? 

+1 Ren

It was nice meeting you yesterday. Thanks for the great deal.

Reasonable administrative fees I can get behind. Permits to top dollar payers I will not.  Enough has been taken from us since our founding fathers stroked their pens on the Constitution. If they could see what has become of it, their tears would smear the ink on the paper.

Big paydays are the reason "our rights" have become so convoluted. Every wonder why we even have to have a website that promotes the 2nd amendment....it is a right.

Anyone else grasp the irony here?

Flame suit on...

Quote from: AWS-GTAW on May 21, 2011, 07:40:08 AM

With the attitude of not wanting to pay a fee, no were near what retired officers pay I don't think CCW can be a reality for us civilians.    Retired leo's have been fighting to uplift the $500 fee for sometime now.    Its in our constitutional right to bear arms, but to conceal carry is more of a privilege.

I agree.

It's funny how people whine about not being able to conceal carry but won't even think about paying a little fee to do so.

Depends on what one considers a "little"fee.  Compared to motor vehicle fees it's way off the charts.  I fail to understand how it can cost so much for a retired LEO since these departments should have years of files on these people.  This is a thinly disguised tax and/or method to control who is able to obtain a CCW.  By forcing this on retired LEO's it can be even further pushed on civilians.

Quote from: PeaShooter on May 21, 2011, 11:14:01 AM

Could you try to become a police officer for a very short time, then switch back to your normal job, in order to obtain LE carry benefits?

You need to retire with at least 10 years by (fed law), but HPD is giving people with less than 20 years a hard time in getting the ID card that is required for LEO Carry.

An idea that is progressing is the purchasing and incorporation of a city on the mainland area.  That city then hires police officers and puts them on administrative leave.  You retain your LEO status, but not your powers of arrest.  The plan is that they would charge a fee -- 1,000 -2000 dollars for this whole process or something to pay for all the paperwork.  Once you are a "leo" for a city, you can legally ccw everywhere.

Some training requirements are required to be met though.

I do a fair amount of cost studies in my line of work.  $1,000 to $2,000 is probably along the lines of 20 to 40 manhours.  I cannot truly believe it takes that long to review someone's CCW application.

I do however feel that people who CCW should display a reasonable degree of proficiency.

Quote from: Kingkeoni on May 21, 2011, 08:27:30 AM

Quote from: AWS-GTAW on May 21, 2011, 07:40:08 AM

With the attitude of not wanting to pay a fee, no were near what retired officers pay I don't think CCW can be a reality for us civilians.    Retired leo's have been fighting to uplift the $500 fee for sometime now.    Its in our constitutional right to bear arms, but to conceal carry is more of a privilege.

I agree.

It's funny how people whine about not being able to conceal carry but won't even think about paying a little fee to do so.

Depends on what one considers a "little"fee.  Compared to motor vehicle fees it's way off the charts.  I fail to understand how it can cost so much for a retired LEO since these departments should have years of files on these people.  This is a thinly disguised tax and/or method to control who is able to obtain a CCW.  By forcing this on retired LEO's it can be even further pushed on civilians.

Quote from: Funtimes on May 21, 2011, 01:32:08 PM

Quote from: PeaShooter on May 21, 2011, 11:14:01 AM

Could you try to become a police officer for a very short time, then switch back to your normal job, in order to obtain LE carry benefits?

You need to retire with at least 10 years by (fed law), but HPD is giving people with less than 20 years a hard time in getting the ID card that is required for LEO Carry.

An idea that is progressing is the purchasing and incorporation of a city on the mainland area.  That city then hires police officers and puts them on administrative leave.  You retain your LEO status, but not your powers of arrest.  The plan is that they would charge a fee -- 1,000 -2000 dollars for this whole process or something to pay for all the paperwork.  Once you are a "leo" for a city, you can legally ccw everywhere.

Some training requirements are required to be met though.

I do a fair amount of cost studies in my line of work.  $1,000 to $2,000 is probably along the lines of 20 to 40 manhours.  I cannot truly believe it takes that long to review someone's CCW application.

I do however feel that people who CCW should display a reasonable degree of proficiency.

The 1,000 - 2,000 dollars is because a group of people were going to buy land and make their own city. They then make their own police department and contract officers .