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  4. Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?

Poll

Who do you think is the grouchiest gun store owner

Art (Magnum)
37.4%
Carter (OGC)
24%
Dan (Kaneohe GS).
28.1%
Dale (YoungGuns).
2.3%
One of the other guys.
8.2%
Total Members Voted
171
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Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu? (Read 126674 times)

Tom_G

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2011, 09:38:59 AM »
Quote from: Kingkeoni on May 22, 2011, 09:34:38 AM

It's honestly not acceptable to be a prick to new shooters.


So, by inference, it's fine to be a prick to the rest?  ;)
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back2back

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Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2011, 09:43:19 AM »
 :shaka:

« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 06:21:36 PM by back2back »
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Kingkeoni

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2011, 09:49:07 AM »
Quote from: Tom_G on May 22, 2011, 09:38:59 AM
Quote from: Kingkeoni on May 22, 2011, 09:34:38 AM

It's honestly not acceptable to be a prick to new shooters.


So, by inference, it's fine to be a prick to the rest?  ;)

Inference?
You must have gone to private school.
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Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

808shooter

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2011, 09:49:48 AM »
Quote from: OGC on May 21, 2011, 11:36:07 PM
 
Quote from: 1hunglow on May 21, 2011, 04:04:09 PM
Seems like they're all grumpy. Carter can be a condescending prick though.

Tell me what you really think.  I spend most of my day helping people, even sending them online and to other shops in town to find what they want for the best price or availability and I'm a condescending prick.  Please feel free to stop in and introduce yourself so I know who is insulting me instead of anonymous bashing in a public forum made up of my customer base.


This guy started his first post on this thread.  kinda fishy and sounds like a "rival" to me. 8)
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1hunglow

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2011, 11:14:29 AM »
Quote from: back2back on May 22, 2011, 09:19:04 AM
Quote from: 1hunglow on May 21, 2011, 04:04:09 PM
Seems like they're all grumpy. Carter can be a condescending prick though.

You got a point but try dealing with inexperienced shooters on daily basis who ask the most stupidest questions everyday when they come into your store.  I worked in a gun shop for 4 years and I almost quit shooting because I got really tired of dealing with folks who wanted a good deal and frankly did not know what the they were talking about.  I started to become a prick after a while.  Its understandable why you would feel  that way.  Here is a tip.  If you spend enough and build your credibility with a shop then you most likely will have some good standing in a gun store IMHO.  Other than that you have a point but try looking at it from the owner eyes as well.  This also goes for all of the shop owners too, good ones and bad ones.  It is easy for us to hide behind the internet, but hey it's America and we feel that we are entitled to do what ever we want. 

Oh and by BTW, thank you for the KAC Carter!  It is sweet and you got it in under three days!

Well done!

See ya in January 2011 for the SR-25 when we get back from SE Asia.

V/R

b2b
I understand your gripe about new shooters and stupid questions BUT it's not new, nor is it exclusive to the firearm industry. It happens everywhere! Imagine what would happen if the staff in a Waikiki hotel were impatient and rude to the tourists who asked stupid questions or made ignorant comments!? I can tell you with certainty that that hotel would no longer be in business. It's a good thing there is enough competition and professionalism in Waikiki to elevate our customer service to world class levels. However, with the local firearm industry, any criticism garners a "you can always take your business somewhere else." Ya sure you can, but where? To the other more-of-a-prick down the street? Apparently the gun shop owners lost the memo on customer service?!

To make myself clear, this is not about Carter. Like I previously said, he is helpful and informative but also his moments of being a condescending prick, or to put it more constructively, acting on his impatience. Carter has probably been the most informative owner I've encountered and I have heard him tell customers which other stores had better deals for they were looking for. Props for that. I've always felt Carter was an honest guy and that's a big reason why I keep going back to his shop.

The thought that a new shooter has to spend enough money at a shop to "build your credibility" is ludicrous. But the most sad part is, it's somewhat true and you're actually helping to perpetrate this train of thought.
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Dregs

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2011, 12:21:11 PM »
Quote from: ar68tactical on May 22, 2011, 02:42:24 AM
Quote from: Dregs on May 21, 2011, 04:15:44 PM
I wish I could vote more times for the Waikiki Gun Shop guy. That guy is such a fucking asshole, that it actually becomes hilarious. He'll say something like, "sign here and here and here". Then he'll stare at you as you wonder what you're supposed to do next. When you don't know, he has attitude. It's SO unnecessary and out of the blue, I swear to god he's autistic. I regret paying the $200 or so charge for taking his course, or FFL'ing him twice for out of state purchases.

*Edit*
If I remember correctly, his name is Eugene, or something like that.

The handgun safety course I taught at Waikiki Gun Shop was $85, when you sign an ATF form you sign your name only once. At the time we had one of the lowest FFL transfer fees of $40 per firearm, not like some of the shops who simply refused to do them.

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience, wish you would have said something at the time so that I could have improved your shopping experience.

I wasn't expecting a response here, but thank you for taking the time. I'm sorry I made a mistake on the class price. It was a little over $100 per person. I'm not going into further details and prolong the drama, as none of it really matters any more. I mentioned my experience because it was the subject of the poll. But, I think it reflects very well on you that you responded, and thank you for taking the time to do so.
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Antithesis

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2011, 02:41:42 PM »
This thread will not end well. 

How about a poll of "Which store has the nicest owners or staff" or "which store has the best prices"  This "who is the grouchiest" is basically asking which store owner you think is the biggest asshole.  And so what?  What does it accomplish?  Everybody leaves with hurt pride and the community is a little more divided, with store owners a little more jaded and apathetic towards the customers they're looking to serve, because some anonymous asshole called them an asshole on an internet forum.   

I've seen this happen before in another sporting community I was actively involved in: less than five stores on the island, and everybody had their favorite and everyone rallied around their championed store.  This split up the community, so much so that the stores could never work together to get big-picture things accomplished for the community at large.  It's stupid and a shame really when you realize what a small minority we are to begin with. 

It is in my opinion, that religion, politics and favorite gun store all go into the same catagory: things you politely do not discuss with strangers or people you're meeting for the first time, because everyone has their opinion and everyone is firmly entrenched into their beliefs. 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 02:51:23 PM by Antithesis »
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Funtimes

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2011, 03:33:46 PM »
Quote from: Kingkeoni on May 22, 2011, 09:34:38 AM
This is Hawaii, not the mainland. This state is world renowned for its spirit of aloha. Maybe its time to remember that.

This is America; I hope the time comes very shortly where all of Hawaii's leaders remember that.  This place is New York on a little island -- lots of cultures, and to many people.

Quote from: Antithesis on May 22, 2011, 02:41:42 PM
This thread will not end well. 

How about a poll of "Which store has the nicest owners or staff" or "which store has the best prices"  This "who is the grouchiest" is basically asking which store owner you think is the biggest asshole.  And so what?  What does it accomplish?  Everybody leaves with hurt pride and the community is a little more divided, with store owners a little more jaded and apathetic towards the customers they're looking to serve, because some anonymous asshole called them an asshole on an internet forum.   

I've seen this happen before in another sporting community I was actively involved in: less than five stores on the island, and everybody had their favorite and everyone rallied around their championed store.  This split up the community, so much so that the stores could never work together to get big-picture things accomplished for the community at large.  It's stupid and a shame really when you realize what a small minority we are to begin with. 

It is in my opinion, that religion, politics and favorite gun store all go into the same catagory: things you politely do not discuss with strangers or people you're meeting for the first time, because everyone has their opinion and everyone is firmly entrenched into their beliefs.

I think if people actually articulate why some shop is not their favorite, instead of just saying xxxx blows goats, then it could be beneficial to a store owner. Obviously, if you are the store owner, you may become offended. However, finding your flaws and opening your eyes to them could make your business that much more successful.  Think about it -- how much business do you think Magnum has lost when almost everyone here bad mouths the shop. I can *easily* say that I have steered 15k-20k dollars worth of product away from that place. Now, take that figure and multiply it by 100 people... (1.5 - 2.0 million dollars), and that is the damage that his attitude has cost him. Factor in the profit margin on the product, let us say at 20%, giving that person 400,000 dollars in profit.  I don't care who you are, that is not chump change.

I think comment cards are a great thing for a business and everyone should have them near the door / exit area where customers can see and fill them out without stress.  As a business owner you are not worried about the ones who are happy; the business owner is worried about the ones who are not. That person goes home and posts on Facebook, and your stores perception just went down to many new possible customers.


(TLDR)  Feedback is good, give better detail on why the shop irritated you.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 03:49:48 PM by Funtimes »
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onfloat

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2011, 05:06:33 PM »
I will say that I'm new to the Oahu (Hawaii) gun culture, coming from places like Utah and Arizona where it's relatively easy to find a gun shop, this place is different. I'm one who tends to vote with my wallet and if I'm treated like dirt I will never buy from that place again no matter how good their prices are. I also like to give everyone a chance to win my business. That being said I will never go to Magnum again. I wandered in that shop for close to an hour with my wife and kids, not so much a hello and seemed perterbed when we did ask a question about one of the pistols. At Young Guns the gentlemen behind the counter were easy to engage in conversation and seemed genuine about want to help us understand the purchase laws here. I have as yet to try OGC, although they do come highly recommended from what I can see. I work in Kaneohe and want to look into the shop there even though the reviews there seem to be hit or miss. It seems like I have to take time off from work to go to any shop as their hours seem to match my work hours and none reopen on Sunday. What's up with that?
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Tom_G

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2011, 06:34:16 PM »
Quote from: onfloat on May 22, 2011, 05:06:33 PM
It seems like I have to take time off from work to go to any shop as their hours seem to match my work hours and none reopen on Sunday. What's up with that?


You have yet to discover Windward Gun Shop, then!  Closed Mon & Tues, open Sat & Sun.  Closest to Kokohead, definitely worth finding.  If for no other reason than you can pick up items on your way to the range!
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The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

Tom_G

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2011, 06:35:29 PM »
Quote from: Kingkeoni on May 22, 2011, 09:49:07 AM
Quote from: Tom_G on May 22, 2011, 09:38:59 AM
Quote from: Kingkeoni on May 22, 2011, 09:34:38 AM

It's honestly not acceptable to be a prick to new shooters.


So, by inference, it's fine to be a prick to the rest?  ;)

Inference?
You must have gone to private school.

No such luck.  My primary schooling was in a lab school, HS in public school, and college in state systems.  It just goes to show that public education doesn't suck everywhere!
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The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

Kingkeoni

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2011, 07:26:43 PM »
Quote from: Antithesis on May 22, 2011, 02:41:42 PM
This thread will not end well. 

How about a poll of "Which store has the nicest owners or staff" or "which store has the best prices"  This "who is the grouchiest" is basically asking which store owner you think is the biggest asshole.  And so what?  What does it accomplish?  Everybody leaves with hurt pride and the community is a little more divided, with store owners a little more jaded and apathetic towards the customers they're looking to serve, because some anonymous asshole called them an asshole on an internet forum.   

I've seen this happen before in another sporting community I was actively involved in: less than five stores on the island, and everybody had their favorite and everyone rallied around their championed store.  This split up the community, so much so that the stores could never work together to get big-picture things accomplished for the community at large.  It's stupid and a shame really when you realize what a small minority we are to begin with. 

It is in my opinion, that religion, politics and favorite gun store all go into the same catagory: things you politely do not discuss with strangers or people you're meeting for the first time, because everyone has their opinion and everyone is firmly entrenched into their beliefs.


I honestly think that getting to hear what people have to say about you behind your back is a blessing.
It gives you the opportunity to hear someones honest opinion.
Sure its someones anonymous opinion but that way you know its honest.

I have owned businesses and can tell you that I would love to have input as to what my customers want and how they want to be treated.
It seems that Carter has already addressed one of his disgruntled customers. He would have never had that opportunity otherwise because that customer would never walk into his store and say "I don't like you because of (insert complaint here)

The gun store that cares about how their customers feel will be the most successful store.
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Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

CRglock

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2011, 08:03:29 PM »
Aloha,

I dealt with every gun store on this island. I like to say Carter and Eugene are  serious people and they should be dealing with guns.  Some people take that the wrong way.   He has his own unique style of teaching and dealing with people and I respect & appreciate that.  He wouldn't act like this if he was a kinda person who didn't really care.   As for Eugene he is a good guy I think he one of the most knowledable person on island
« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 09:02:12 PM by CRglock »
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Dregs

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2011, 08:10:10 PM »
I think Young Guns is the most heavily advertised (a relative term) gun store in Hawaii for some reason, and that leads me to  believe that they have the highest number of new people. Maybe it's because every time I've been there, there's always someone that is explaining how to acquire guns in Hawaii. Last time I was there, it was some military folks. The time before that was a Japanese couple in it for self-defense. Took the time to show her that compact models are more concealable, but harder to rack the slide for her. The lady there is super nice to everyone so far as I've seen. They're just too damn expensive (back to the monopolistic price-gouge thing).

My point is, well, perhaps they're an industry exception, but my point is, I've personally seen more new people there than any of the other stores I've been to. Yet no one here has an issue with them enough to vote them above the others (I have seen one or two of the staff appear impatient, but nothing overtly disrespectful).

I think that speaks for itself.

Compare that to the other stores, where someone walks in and they know each other by name, it makes it feel like it's a private cool-guy club. Which it inherently is in our political climate, but that's not really conducive to spreading the word (nor sales).

I personally think only 2 or so gun stores here care enough about this concept.

You're right, customer service sucks. I'm in the tourism industry almost my whole life. Repeating the same shit day in and day out to thousands of people. It is ANNOYING. But there's one thing that both the potential gun-store shopper and tourist have in common. We can choose to go somewhere else next time if we feel like we've been treated like shit.
 
As the person paying money, it's my social responsibility to not be an asshole, and the receiver's professional responsibility to not be an asshole. If one or the other chooses (very important word here) to be an asshole, then the balance is broken and someone or both will have a bad experience.
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HGS

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2011, 09:13:25 PM »
Quote from: onfloat on May 22, 2011, 05:06:33 PM
It seems like I have to take time off from work to go to any shop as their hours seem to match my work hours and none reopen on Sunday. What's up with that?

I feel your pain brotha. When I first moved here from the mainland and just started getting back into the sports the first thing I did was look up all the shops and go to all of them. As a consumer at the time all the shops  :closed: at 5pm, HPD firerams closes at 4pm, limited gun shop hours on Saturday and most closed on Sunday, not to mention I could count the number of shops on one hand, I was shocked! So those of us who had a 9-5pm job were not allowed to buy firearms in this state I guess  ???  So I went every Saturday until I visited all of them and had to take the day off to get them registered.   :grrr:
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AWS-GTAW

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2011, 09:28:37 PM »
Hey Back2back how come u always deletes and edit your post's the next day?
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1hunglow

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2011, 09:50:29 PM »
Quote from: AWS-GTAW on May 22, 2011, 09:28:37 PM
Hey Back2back how come u always deletes and edit your post's the next day?
Why he would do that when myself and someone else already quoted what he already said, I have no idea.


On another note, whatever happened with the Magnum guy's court case?

http://www.kitv.com/news/21241861/detail.html
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Colt808

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2011, 04:29:21 AM »
Quote from: Kingkeoni on May 22, 2011, 09:49:07 AM
Inference?
You must have gone to private school.
And what's wrong with private school? I attended St. Louis until HS, graduated from Mililani, went on to UH and Stanford...whether one gets a private or public education does not matter as much as wanting to become educated.
Quote from: Funtimes on May 22, 2011, 03:33:46 PM
Quote from: Kingkeoni on May 22, 2011, 09:34:38 AM
This is Hawaii, not the mainland. This state is world renowned for its spirit of aloha. Maybe its time to remember that.

This is America; I hope the time comes very shortly where all of Hawaii's leaders remember that.  This place is New York on a little island -- lots of cultures, and to many people.
I think you're taking "not the mainland" as meaning not America...there is a difference. The "Sprit of Aloha" applies to the local culture regardless of cultural/racial background. It's no different than saying "The people of Georgia are renowned for their southern hospitality." As for Hawaii's leaders? Well politics are the same no matter where you are in the US. Most leaders will do what they think is right for the majority of their constituents.

 :stopjack:
For me, OGC and Young Guns are the two closest shops. What determines which I go to? Convenience. Not the owner or if they're grouchy, I really could give a crap...they're only human and are free to run things however they wish. When I shop, I make it a point to know what I want, go to who has it, buy it, and be done with it. I don't go there to shoot the shit or buddy up the owner. It's strictly business. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather keep things simple.

I will add that OGC would probably get more of my business if the parking weren't such a pain. Tried going several times 3 days last week but ended up circling the block everytime wasting gas and dodging semi trucks.
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2aHawaii

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Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2011, 05:25:04 AM »
I've made some changes to the poll and hope they look nicer now.

I honestly think most of the gun store owners have some similar personality traits that can make them all seem grumpy to some people. Really, it takes a certain kind of person to open a gun store in Hawaii (crazy :)) and you can't expect hotel-like service. Part of OGC's problem was that the store was so small, that Carter and Eugene could only really help one person at a time. I think that will change a lot at their new shop. They were always helpful and honest and had great prices. What more can you ask for.

Art...well there is a reason behind him being number one in this pole. Not only does he have an attitude of not caring about the customers, he has :o prices.

I think you need to have good shooting buddies and treat the store like a store. Don't go in expecting the owner to be your buddy (unless they are your buddy). Or you could go in every day and buy something. That's a quick way to make buddies :)
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Kingkeoni

Re: Poll time: who's the grouchiest gun store owner on Oahu?
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2011, 07:35:50 AM »
Quote from: Colt808 on May 23, 2011, 04:29:21 AM
Quote from: Kingkeoni on May 22, 2011, 09:49:07 AM
Inference?
You must have gone to private school.
And what's wrong with private school? I attended St. Louis until HS, graduated from Mililani, went on to UH and Stanford...whether one gets a private or public education does not matter as much as wanting to become educated.
Quote from: Funtimes on May 22, 2011, 03:33:46 PM


Ok, well I went to Waianae high school then went to A.L.C. After which I gradeueted from Olomana.
I went on to win a Mr. Swapmeet contest and a sexiest legs in Compton contest.
I furthered my edgeamukation in Calipatra state penitentiary and finally got my doctorate at Folsom.

Just kidding ( I never went to Waianae)   :shake:
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Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
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