Why does it "not look good as a society" to open carry.  Police open carry when in uniform, Armored car guards open carry, other states open carry, no one bats an eye and people are comfortable and secure about it.

It is the bull**it of anti gunners, too many movies, and the fearful politicians that puts a stigma on the whole thing.  Open or not.   

It is all about the power, and an armed populous is hard to put under heel.      I think, IMHO,  society has become progressively worse from the day municipalities outlawed open carry.

It is just my opinion that it does not look good as a society. I don't think it would look good if we carried swords on our hip either. Carrying guns serves a purpose but I don't think we need to be constantly reminded of why by seeing it everywhere.

 Here in hawaii we get a lot of tourists from other places that are not used to firearms. Economically speaking we don't want to scare them away.

It is just my opinion that it does not look good as a society. I don't think it would look good if we carried swords on our hip either. Carrying guns serves a purpose but I don't think we need to be constantly reminded of why by seeing it everywhere.

 Here in hawaii we get a lot of tourists from other places that are not used to firearms. Economically speaking we don't want to scare them away.

If you are going to try and appease everyone who expresses fear over seeing a gun, then the Second Amendment is already dead.  Tourists' feelings should never dictate how or where we exercise our rights and freedoms.

Maybe by seeing the way Americans are not  fearful of the government will spawn a similar attitude in the tourists' minds?  They might see how Americans can walk around with guns & without fear of criminals, whereas in their country only the police and military are allowed to have guns in public.

Rather than treat tourists like little children, afraid to see a gun up close, we should show them that guns do not define us.  They are merely tools which our Constitution grants us the right to bear.

The existence of guns in America is already international knowledge.  If the media crying "gun epidemic in America" doesn't scare tourists away, their seeing a gun in a holster not hurting anyone should not be an issue.

It is just my opinion that it does not look good as a society. I don't think it would look good if we carried swords on our hip either. Carrying guns serves a purpose but I don't think we need to be constantly reminded of why by seeing it everywhere.

 Here in hawaii we get a lot of tourists from other places that are not used to firearms. Economically speaking we don't want to scare them away.

Sounds more like you think someone might be "offended" rather than open carry being a commentary about how it reflects on us as a society. If you feel that law abiding citizens should have the ability to choose the best means to protect themselves, (i.e. carry a gun) then trying to restrict their ability to determine the best manner in which to carry said weapon sounds hypocritical and more befitting a flip-flopping politician rather a civil rights advocate.

Your concern over tactical considerations seems similarly hollow and totalitarian insofar as you would not, I assume, try to assert someone should be prohibited from carrying a small .380 in his pocket because "tactically" you think it a poor choice. Freedom is just that. You and I may disagree on what type or caliber of firearm to carry, but your concern over my interpretations of my "tactical" needs should never be the basis of a law prohibiting me from making my own choices based on my individual needs.

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It is just my opinion that it does not look good as a society. I don't think it would look good if we carried swords on our hip either. Carrying guns serves a purpose but I don't think we need to be constantly reminded of why by seeing it everywhere.

 Here in hawaii we get a lot of tourists from other places that are not used to firearms. Economically speaking we don't want to scare them away.

I doubt it would scare anyone away.  Asian tourists clamor to go shoot a real gun.  And if it does scare anyone away, it's probably a lefty hypocrite a**hole, from the left coast,   who doesn't need to be here anyway. 


We have had just about enough of these crapasshats moving here already making this place into their own personal  unicorn utopia, and trying to push their totalitarian agenda on the people.

The poll sounds misleading.

"Do you support open carry gun laws?"

When you answer yes, they will twist it to say that "yes, 90% of our poll responders want more gun laws."

If you are going to try and appease everyone who expresses fear over seeing a gun, then the Second Amendment is already dead.  Tourists' feelings should never dictate how or where we exercise our rights and freedoms.

Maybe by seeing the way Americans are not  fearful of the government will spawn a similar attitude in the tourists' minds?  They might see how Americans can walk around with guns & without fear of criminals, whereas in their country only the police and military are allowed to have guns in public.

Rather than treat tourists like little children, afraid to see a gun up close, we should show them that guns do not define us.  They are merely tools which our Constitution grants us the right to bear.

The existence of guns in America is already international knowledge.  If the media crying "gun epidemic in America" doesn't scare tourists away, their seeing a gun in a holster not hurting anyone should not be an issue.

You are correct on principle but realistically when it comes to the tourist industry, image matters and principle doesn't pay the bills. I don't know if the tourist industry would take a hit or not but it is something to consider.

A lot of people want to go to a safe place for their vacation. Whatever their personal feelings about firearms, if they see a bunch of people carrying firearms it might make them think Hawaii is not as safe. I don't know if we could prove it one way though. I have heard anecdotal case where people from other countries were scared because of the guns (and gun violence) but I don't know if they represent any significant portion or not.

Sure they can see we are not afraid of our government, but that is hardly unique to us. Many of the other developed countries have freedoms very close to ours even without significant private gun ownership so I don't think they will see people carrying guns as the reason for our freedoms.

If the state votes to allow concealed carry only I would be fine with that as I would not consider that an infringement of my right to bear arms. Thats the bottom line for me. You are free to disagree.

As to Hilary's comment, no it is not hollow. I think concealed carry offers many more advantages over open carry. Yes open carry might serve as a deterrent but it also makes you more of a target. Either because you are a known source of a weapon to exploit, or you are a known threat to their intentions and they will attack you first.

You are correct on principle but realistically when it comes to the tourist industry, image matters and principle doesn't pay the bills. I don't know if the tourist industry would take a hit or not but it is something to consider.

A lot of people want to go to a safe place for their vacation. Whatever their personal feelings about firearms, if they see a bunch of people carrying firearms it might make them think Hawaii is not as safe. I don't know if we could prove it one way though. I have heard anecdotal case where people from other countries were scared because of the guns (and gun violence) but I don't know if they represent any significant portion or not.

Sure they can see we are not afraid of our government, but that is hardly unique to us. Many of the other developed countries have freedoms very close to ours even without significant private gun ownership so I don't think they will see people carrying guns as the reason for our freedoms.

If the state votes to allow concealed carry only I would be fine with that as I would not consider that an infringement of my right to bear arms. Thats the bottom line for me. You are free to disagree.

As to Hilary's comment, no it is not hollow. I think concealed carry offers many more advantages over open carry. Yes open carry might serve as a deterrent but it also makes you more of a target. Either because you are a known source of a weapon to exploit, or you are a known threat to their intentions and they will attack you first.

The way you project your own fears and opinions onto the tourist population is astounding!

Have you ever seen a study or had a conversation with a tourist about their attitudes toward seeing someone carrying a gun?

There are plenty of places in the US with open carry rights where people actually open carry.  Some of these places also have tourism.  Have there been any reactions by tourists that caused them to reconsider open carry?

Do you think Liberals on vacation have a different reaction than a more logical, Constitution-supporting American when seeing a gun carried in public?  If so, do you think we ought to consider outlawing open carry everywhere so they are not freaked out?  Do their opinions matter more than those who prefer to open carry?

Do you realize if more than a few people open carry, there won't be a rash of gun owners being "targeted" by crooks, because the other gun owners will likely assist him/her? 

Cops carry all the time openly, but there hasn't been a rash of them being targeted for their guns or to remove the threat to their planned criminal acts.  Crooks will simply pick a less protected location/group to target.

Do you realize it's easier to draw quickly while carrying openly than concealed since clothing doesn't get in the way?

Have you ever carried a handgun in public, either open or concealed?

Have you ever been in a public place and seen anyone other than security or LE with a gun on their hip?  If so, did it freak you out?

It's fine to have an opinion, but everything in your comment is total hypothetical and imagination!!   

You are correct on principle but realistically when it comes to the tourist industry, image matters and principle doesn't pay the bills. I don't know if the tourist industry would take a hit or not but it is something to consider.

A lot of people want to go to a safe place for their vacation. Whatever their personal feelings about firearms, if they see a bunch of people carrying firearms it might make them think Hawaii is not as safe. I don't know if we could prove it one way though. I have heard anecdotal case where people from other countries were scared because of the guns (and gun violence) but I don't know if they represent any significant portion or not.

Sure they can see we are not afraid of our government, but that is hardly unique to us. Many of the other developed countries have freedoms very close to ours even without significant private gun ownership so I don't think they will see people carrying guns as the reason for our freedoms.

If the state votes to allow concealed carry only I would be fine with that as I would not consider that an infringement of my right to bear arms. Thats the bottom line for me. You are free to disagree.

As to Hilary's comment, no it is not hollow. I think concealed carry offers many more advantages over open carry. Yes open carry might serve as a deterrent but it also makes you more of a target. Either because you are a known source of a weapon to exploit, or you are a known threat to their intentions and they will attack you first.

Hawaii's population, in general, is not used to seeing open carry, right? They are also clearly (as a whole) not very "gun friendly" and used to a relatively "gun free" environment. They are also used to living in a pretty safe place.

So, where do the vast majority of Hawaii's residents routinely travel? Las Vegas, Washington and Oregon.....all places open carry is lawful and routinely practiced.....

If Hawaii's residents aren't concerned about open carry in their travel destinations, why would the majority of other travelers be concerned?

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The way you project your own fears and opinions onto the tourist population is astounding!

Have you ever seen a study or had a conversation with a tourist about their attitudes toward seeing someone carrying a gun?

There are plenty of places in the US with open carry rights where people actually open carry.  Some of these places also have tourism.  Have there been any reactions by tourists that caused them to reconsider open carry?

Do you think Liberals on vacation have a different reaction than a more logical, Constitution-supporting American when seeing a gun carried in public?  If so, do you think we ought to consider outlawing open carry everywhere so they are not freaked out?  Do their opinions matter more than those who prefer to open carry?

Do you realize if more than a few people open carry, there won't be a rash of gun owners being "targeted" by crooks, because the other gun owners will likely assist him/her? 

Cops carry all the time openly, but there hasn't been a rash of them being targeted for their guns or to remove the threat to their planned criminal acts.  Crooks will simply pick a less protected location/group to target.

Do you realize it's easier to draw quickly while carrying openly than concealed since clothing doesn't get in the way?

Have you ever carried a handgun in public, either open or concealed?

Have you ever been in a public place and seen anyone other than security or LE with a gun on their hip?  If so, did it freak you out?

It's fine to have an opinion, but everything in your comment is total hypothetical and imagination!!   

This has nothing to do with my own fears, it has to do with image. Consciously or unconsciously people notice things. Some retailers say no guns in their establishments because they don't want that image.

Yes I have had conversations with foreigners who didn't like guns being so prevalent in America. If they saw people carrying it around on their hip they might avoid the area. I am not going to speculate what amount of people would avoid traveling to an area with open carry though because I idon'thave any sort of quantitative data to refer to. Like I said, it is something to consider when it makes up such a huge portion of our economy. If I can find any studies done in other places will be sure to post it here. Maybe a tourist association has already made such a study?

In a crime type situation cops, security guards, and anyone known to be armed is going to be the individuals first target because that is the biggest threat to their actions. A few years back there was news here about a guy who walked up and tried to grab a sheriff's gun. You cannot really compare a cop to a regular citizen when it comes to open carry though, a cop has other weapons, they have body armor and they have training, etc.

Yes you can draw faster in open carry but that advantage is outweighed in most situations by the fact that someone can see you are armed but you don't know when a threat is coming. If I am going on a shooting spree I am shooting the biggest threats first.
 
Now if enough people open carried then sure, it would be a deterrent, but realistically what percentage of the population would regularly open carry if they could legally?

I don't recall ever seeing anyone besides a cop or security guard carrying in public. I have seen it in private businesses though. It surprised me because I don't see it often but it did not bother me. Most of them were establishments I frequented.

Here is a poll, not significant in size though.
http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/reader-poll-open-carry-demonstrations-hurt-gun-rights/


A pro gun rights article addressing the point.
http://fillyerhands.com/2014/06/03/why-flagrant-open-carry-hurts-our-cause/

"Why do I care if they are afraid? Because they vote."


Even though you don't fear guns, is this what you want your community to look like?

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I lived like this with both friends, allies and possible enemies for almost a year; I'm still here, I feel perfectly normal seeing this,and wouldn't mind seeing this as a civilian.

Fair enough, honesty appreciated.

But can I clarify, was this in a military/wartime setting?

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i still think open carrying a rifle is ridiculous, but that's for personal reasons.

if someone else wants to walk around with 10 extra pounds swinging across their back and getting in the way, be my guest.