BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae (Read 17481 times)

808Hunta

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2015, 10:43:35 PM »
Who cruises around with an AK and a 22 in their truck ?

A lot of law abiding gun owner's just not in Hawaii  >:(

Place to keep is a bunch of B$ as with a lot of our BS gun laws!!!

mauidog

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2015, 11:29:41 PM »
Whether your way of thinking is incorrect is not a matter for debate. You're free to think whatever you wish.

But we can debate why responsible gun owners are not sympathetic. It's because the irresponsible or reckless actions of the few reflects badly on us all and regardless of whether we feel a law is right, it is still the law.

To your last question, at home my service pistol is in a lock box, a shotgun someplace accessible and the rest are kept in safes. In transit to/from the range or work I keep them in cases.

This is why I always bring up safes as a topic when these anti-2A people talk about "common sense" gun laws.

If they cared about safety, they would not just make laws to mandate you buy a safe (laws they will not know you failed to follow -- unless a kid shoots someone or a theft report is filed).

There should be a "free gun safe" for all new gun owners.  Buy a pistol, get a rebate on a safe equal to some average small, acceptable pistol safe model's cost.  Want more/better model, use the rebate and some of your money.

When you buy more guns than the free safe fits, offer a trade in.  Turn in the small safe, get 75% of that safe's cost off the price of another larger safe.

Take the turn-in safes, change the combo, and offer them as the free safe for new owners.


However it's designed, it should be something more than that silly padlock you get free with most firearms.  This way, no one will ever have to delay/choose against buying a safe when they bring a gun home.

Safes, lock boxes, quick access storage devices, vehicle mounted boxes in places with CCW ... they should all be part of the program.


True story.  I traveled to NC with my carry pistol.  I took a super heavy lock cable and extra locks.  Whenever I had to leave the gun in the car locked up, I placed it in the Pelican I flew with, ran the cable through the rear speaker deck holes inside the trunk, and locked the cable to the case and through the handle.  It would take a lot of work to separate the gun from the car with that setup.  I did this because, (1) I did not want to be without a firearm, (2) I did not want to lose a gun worth $850, (3) I did not want someone to use my firearm in any crimes, (4) I always try to exercise responsibility & maintain control over any firearms I own.  Maybe it's my military training, but I can't leave my gun safe unlocked while I'm not in front of it (same rules working around classified material). 

Maybe the real reason is, I don't want to make it any easier than I have to for some low life slime to steal property I worked hard to afford.  Why should they get something from me for nothing?  If they get my gun, it'll be because they also had to really work for it!!
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Colt808

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2015, 11:45:54 PM »
This is why I always bring up safes as a topic when these anti-2A people talk about "common sense" gun laws.

If they cared about safety, they would not just make laws to mandate you buy a safe (laws they will not know you failed to follow -- unless a kid shoots someone or a theft report is filed).

There should be a "free gun safe" for all new gun owners.  Buy a pistol, get a rebate on a safe equal to some average small, acceptable pistol safe model's cost.  Want more/better model, use the rebate and some of your money.

When you buy more guns than the free safe fits, offer a trade in.  Turn in the small safe, get 75% of that safe's cost off the price of another larger safe.

Take the turn-in safes, change the combo, and offer them as the free safe for new owners.


However it's designed, it should be something more than that silly padlock you get free with most firearms.  This way, no one will ever have to delay/choose against buying a safe when they bring a gun home.

Safes, lock boxes, quick access storage devices, vehicle mounted boxes in places with CCW ... they should all be part of the program.


True story.  I traveled to NC with my carry pistol.  I took a super heavy lock cable and extra locks.  Whenever I had to leave the gun in the car locked up, I placed it in the Pelican I flew with, ran the cable through the rear speaker deck holes inside the trunk, and locked the cable to the case and through the handle.  It would tak a lot of work to separate the gun from the car with that setup.  I did this because, (1) I did not want to be without a firearm, (2) I did not want to lose a gun worth $850, (3) I did not want someone to use my firearm in any crimes, (4) I always try to exercise responsibility & maintain control over any firearms I own.  Maybe it's my military training, but I can't leave my gun safe unlocked while I'm not in front of it (same rules working around classified material). 

Maybe the real reason is, I don't want to make it any easier than I have to for some low life slime to steal property I worked hard to afford.  Why should they get something from me for nothing?  If they get my gun, it'll be because they also had to really work for it!!
We probably have the same ideas on responsibility, so I don't disagree. But as it stands "common sense" is not very common. If it were, I doubt there'd be any need for many of the laws.



Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it. ~Thomas Paine


And I still see stupid people.

mauidog

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2015, 11:51:13 PM »
We probably have the same ideas on responsibility, so I don't disagree. But as it stands "common sense" is not very common. If it were, I doubt there'd be any need for many of the laws.

Laws without enforcement are ineffective.

Laws for the most part are reactive, not proactive.  You don't get punished until AFTER you break the law.

So, making laws to mandate safes will not ensure anyone buys a safe, only that gun owner gets an additional charge if something bad happens.  That is unacceptable.

We need to be preventive when it involves safety.  Ensure the gun owner actually can afford an appropriate storage container to keep it in.  That's so much more "common sense" than just having a law on the books. 

That's the best you can do.  You can't force anyone to actually use their safe at home, but just having one available is better than not having one.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

aieahound

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2015, 08:18:50 AM »
A lot of law abiding gun owner's just not in Hawaii  >:(

Place to keep is a bunch of B$ as with a lot of our BS gun laws!!!

Awesome answer.

 :thumbsup:

Heavies

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2015, 11:02:27 AM »
Frankly, I don't see the difference (putting legality of 'place to keep' in Hawaii on the side) of someone stealing your car and stealing of the firearms.   This is the reason I cannot grasp 2A supporters utter condemnation of dude that was victimized.

I seen the same thing, in one other topic a while back, where a dude stopped a brawl or  fight with his firearm, with out firing a shot mind you.  He was charged with 'place to keep' and probably lost his rights for doing the right thing, IMO.  Many many 2A supporters severely chastised that person and his actions.

Don't take this as me saying the dude that left his gear in his car was doing the right thing, because that is not the point I am trying to make.  My point is there is a double standard in thinking here that needs thinking about.  This is prevalent here in Hawaii, one reason, I believe, is that people's rights have been infringed for so long that they are conditioned to react in certain ways, which in my eyes, are contradicting the ideals we say we support.

ie.  We argue the gun is just an inanimate object that needs an operator to function.  The intentions of that person are what makes it's use good or bad.  If you take away the law that requires a certain storage requirement, which is the case in many other states, it is just like any other stolen piece of property.  Same as if the thief stole an auto, which statistically is far more dangerous and deadly that any gun has ever been in civilian society, and a more dangerous implement in the wrong hands.   By that token, 2a supporters would also say anyone who leaves their auto unattended should be responsible for any evil doing that is perpetrated by the felon that stole it?
 
No you wouldn't because that is absurd. 

ren

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2015, 11:15:50 AM »
The same govt. that is imposing these double standards on us citizens also have firearms stolen from them  :grrr:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/26/us-california-shooting-idUSKBN0TE2VF20151126

Why should they impose laws on us when they can't do the same for themselves?
Deeds Not Words

oldfart

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2015, 11:36:51 AM »
Looking at the stolen stuff posts.  I'd like to debate this issue to see if my way of thinking is incorrect.  It is given that keeping firearms in your car is illegal, however, because it is law it doesn't make it right.  Everyone here should know that.  I'd like to talk about how everyone demonizes the person BECAUSE his stuff got stolen.  In my eyes just because it was guns it makes no difference.   Gun owwners should be double sympathetic to the victim of the theft, yet seems they are the first to cast stones.....

How do you secure your guns at home or in transit?
...
Re. Place to keep violation...
I do agree. Just because it is law, does not make it a righteous law.
perhaps a better comment would be "common sense" violation
What, Me Worry?

mauidog

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2015, 11:53:27 AM »
Frankly, I don't see the difference (putting legality of 'place to keep' in Hawaii on the side) of someone stealing your car and stealing of the firearms.   This is the reason I cannot grasp 2A supporters utter condemnation of dude that was victimized.

I seen the same thing, in one other topic a while back, where a dude stopped a brawl or  fight with his firearm, with out firing a shot mind you.  He was charged with 'place to keep' and probably lost his rights for doing the right thing, IMO.  Many many 2A supporters severely chastised that person and his actions.

Don't take this as me saying the dude that left his gear in his car was doing the right thing, because that is not the point I am trying to make.  My point is there is a double standard in thinking here that needs thinking about.  This is prevalent here in Hawaii, one reason, I believe, is that people's rights have been infringed for so long that they are conditioned to react in certain ways, which in my eyes, are contradicting the ideals we say we support.

ie.  We argue the gun is just an inanimate object that needs an operator to function.  The intentions of that person are what makes it's use good or bad.  If you take away the law that requires a certain storage requirement, which is the case in many other states, it is just like any other stolen piece of property.  Same as if the thief stole an auto, which statistically is far more dangerous and deadly that any gun has ever been in civilian society, and a more dangerous implement in the wrong hands.   By that token, 2a supporters would also say anyone who leaves their auto unattended should be responsible for any evil doing that is perpetrated by the felon that stole it?
 
No you wouldn't because that is absurd.

I'm not arguing firearms are more dangerous than cars.  In fact, on how many things do most people have anti-theft devices installed?  Home?  Car?  Gun safe?  Motorcycle?

I view guns no differently than any other high-value items I own.  I have an Internet-connected alarm sensor on my gun safe in addition to the home alarm system.  I have an alarm on my cars.  The insurance company requires a high-value / high theft item rider that I pay extra for.  BTW, I also have extra insurance for car theft, jewelry theft, and any other items I might loose due to theft.

Firearms are high value / high theft items.  If we know that, then it's common sense to take extraordinary measures to prevent theft and to replace their value if (when?) any go missing. 

Don't assume anyone is treating guns differently based on emotions and fear.  It's a responsible decision to protect ANY and ALL high value & high theft items you might own.  Firearms fall into that category.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

ren

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2015, 12:21:51 PM »
The absurdity is that the root cause is that another person, um let's call this person a CRIMINAL, steals then the blame is placed on the person who did not commit any crime.
Passing laws that require us to have safe has the assumption that WE are the cause of gun crimes when the CRIMINAL is the root cause.

Did we forget that stealing is against the law? But we as a society commit it everyday in all kinds of forms.
Deeds Not Words

K30l4

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2015, 02:33:03 PM »
The absurdity is that the root cause is that another person, um let's call this person a CRIMINAL, steals then the blame is placed on the person who did not commit any crime.
Passing laws that require us to have safe has the assumption that WE are the cause of gun crimes when the CRIMINAL is the root cause.

Did we forget that stealing is against the law? But we as a society commit it everyday in all kinds of forms.
Ren, you criminal! I believe you just stole my thought!

ren

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2015, 03:30:32 PM »
Ren, you criminal! I believe you just stole my thought!
You should speak to your legislator about another law....
Deeds Not Words

SLORYDSTANG

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2015, 04:08:36 PM »
It's been a while for me, but aren't you only allowed point  A to B travel with a firearm in transport? Home to range and range to home without any long period stops? Or any other legitimate activity gunsmith/shop, hunting area,.........ect?  Poor decision to leave them unattended in a vehicle. Really doubt HPD would have approved a permit to acquire if you listed your address as "The beach" and being homeless

Heavies

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2015, 11:35:22 PM »
It's been a while for me, but aren't you only allowed point  A to B travel with a firearm in transport? Home to range and range to home without any long period stops? Or any other legitimate activity gunsmith/shop, hunting area,.........ect?  Poor decision to leave them unattended in a vehicle. Really doubt HPD would have approved a permit to acquire if you listed your address as "The beach" and being homeless

... (putting legality of 'place to keep' in Hawaii on the side) ....

Rocky

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2015, 09:32:00 AM »
    Your right  Heavies.  :wave:
This is not a case of  "Place to keep" or about safes but about lawful to carry.

[§134-24]  Place to keep unloaded firearms other than pistols and revolvers; penalty.  (a)  Except as provided in section 134-5, all firearms shall be confined to the possessor's place of business, residence, or sojourn; provided that it shall be lawful to carry unloaded firearms in an enclosed container from the place of purchase to the purchaser's place of business, residence, or sojourn, or between these places upon change of place of business, residence, or sojourn, or between these places and the following:
     (1)  A place of repair;

     (2)  A target range;

     (3)  A licensed dealer's place of business;

     (4)  An organized, scheduled firearms show or exhibit;

     (5)  A place of formal hunter or firearm use training or instruction; or

     (6)  A police station.

     "Enclosed container" means a rigidly constructed receptacle, or a commercially manufactured gun case, or the equivalent thereof that completely encloses the firearm.
     (b)  Any person violating this section by carrying or possessing an unloaded firearm other than a pistol or revolver shall be guilty of a class C felony. [L 2006, c 66, pt of §1]

    Stopping between the above listed destinations much less leaving the firearms unattended is the violation.  :crazy:

This criminal has no respect for you or the law and now thanks to this persons reckless behavior, there is now a criminal out there who is armed !  :grrr:  :wtf:
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

PeaShooter

Re: BOLO: stolen firearms from Waianae
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2015, 09:40:35 AM »
car = outdoors gun safe/display that you can see inside

place to keep = under my pillow??