Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting (Read 164907 times)

AWS-GTAW

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2011, 09:26:28 PM »
Wow.
Too bad he didn't just scare the dude with his gun.   Hard to say though cause we don't know all the details.

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Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2011, 12:41:22 AM »
Wouldn't this be bizarre if this was a ploy by the government to be another anti-gun thing. Especially against CCW.
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Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2011, 12:58:27 AM »
Wouldn't this be bizarre if this was a ploy by the government to be another anti-gun thing. Especially against CCW.

The media seems to be taking the story in this direction from the start. 

Security tapes...?

Bad for all parties involved.  The truth won't come out until the trial.

nf9648

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2011, 02:55:58 AM »
Lol at some of you guys stereotyping. Pretty pathetic imo. Not looking too good for the agent since he was charged. Details being kept all hush hush makes me wonder too.
I read nothing into the fact that he's been charged.  Lots and lots of people get charged with crimes they didn't commit, and an even higher percentage of self-defense shooters get charged.  Time will tell.
This is true. Was the agent who shot the guy up tantalus charged/taken into custody?

Heres the link...

http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/FBI-gives-update-on-Tantalus-shooting/3DGmWIqBIkCQgFykM4kOTg.cspx

nf9648

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2011, 02:59:28 AM »
Wow.
Too bad he didn't just scare the dude with his gun.   Hard to say though cause we don't know all the details.

In regards to carrying concealed, nobody should even know you are doing so until you need to use it.  Brandishing can turn into terroristic threatening really quick.

pj_benn

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #45 on: November 08, 2011, 03:49:09 AM »
Lol at some of you guys stereotyping. Pretty pathetic imo. Not looking too good for the agent since he was charged. Details being kept all hush hush makes me wonder too.
I read nothing into the fact that he's been charged.  Lots and lots of people get charged with crimes they didn't commit, and an even higher percentage of self-defense shooters get charged.  Time will tell.
This is true. Was the agent who shot the guy up tantalus charged/taken into custody?

Heres the link...

http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/FBI-gives-update-on-Tantalus-shooting/3DGmWIqBIkCQgFykM4kOTg.cspx

So the agent wasn't charged or even put on admin leave. Thnx didn't read that article when I did a quick google

Kingkeoni

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #46 on: November 08, 2011, 04:51:08 AM »
Lol at some of you guys stereotyping. Pretty pathetic imo. Not looking too good for the agent since he was charged. Details being kept all hush hush makes me wonder too.
I read nothing into the fact that he's been charged.  Lots and lots of people get charged with crimes they didn't commit, and an even higher percentage of self-defense shooters get charged.  Time will tell.
This is true. Was the agent who shot the guy up tantalus charged/taken into custody?

Heres the link...

http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/FBI-gives-update-on-Tantalus-shooting/3DGmWIqBIkCQgFykM4kOTg.cspx

So the agent wasn't charged or even put on admin leave. Thnx didn't read that article when I did a quick google

Very different situation.
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Growler67

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #47 on: November 08, 2011, 05:03:29 AM »
Wow.
Too bad he didn't just scare the dude with his gun.   Hard to say though cause we don't know all the details.

Since there (effectively) is no CCW in Hawaii, te definition of "brandishing" would likely fall under "terroristic threatening".  Both are generally grounds for losing ones CHL if one has one......in those states that issue.
Practice does NOT make perfect. Perfection is an Ideal and thus cannot exist in the real world. To seek perfection is to set yourself up for failure. Instead, strive for Excellence. Excellence is an attainable goal - Coach George Yamamoto, Mililani High School, RIP

Growler67

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #48 on: November 08, 2011, 05:08:39 AM »
On the radio this morning, it was rumor that the agent followed the local guy to McDonald's from the club.

Agent is boned.

Rumors don't hold water in court, facts do.

Everything you are hearing/seeing in the papers is speculation.

Ever heard of the  word "spin"?

I agree. When I said the word rumor, it was a strategic choice. All we can really do is wait for clarification!

Anybody else think it is irresponsible to be making inflamatory and unsubtantiated statements.......by the deceased attourney?

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20111108_Federal_agent_is_free_on_bail_as_details_of_shooting_emerge.html?1a

Why isn't the local bar telling this guy to STFU?  Or have things gotten SOOOOOO anti-haole since I left in '94 that THAT is all that matters?
Practice does NOT make perfect. Perfection is an Ideal and thus cannot exist in the real world. To seek perfection is to set yourself up for failure. Instead, strive for Excellence. Excellence is an attainable goal - Coach George Yamamoto, Mililani High School, RIP

ren

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #49 on: November 08, 2011, 08:12:35 AM »
I think the attorney is trying to build up anti-haole sentiment before the trial - which would be a jury of people from Hawaii....No mourning period has passed and the family hired an attorney...What does that tell you????? :crazy: :(
Deeds Not Words

GZire

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2011, 09:16:01 AM »
Lol at some of you guys stereotyping. Pretty pathetic imo. Not looking too good for the agent since he was charged. Details being kept all hush hush makes me wonder too.
I read nothing into the fact that he's been charged.  Lots and lots of people get charged with crimes they didn't commit, and an even higher percentage of self-defense shooters get charged.  Time will tell.
This is true. Was the agent who shot the guy up tantalus charged/taken into custody?

Heres the link...

http://www.khon2.com/mostpopular/story/FBI-gives-update-on-Tantalus-shooting/3DGmWIqBIkCQgFykM4kOTg.cspx

So the agent wasn't charged or even put on admin leave. Thnx didn't read that article when I did a quick google

Very different situation.

Agreed, with impersonating a LEO, you can bet HPD knew about the guy when they were on scene.

GZire

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #51 on: November 08, 2011, 09:18:35 AM »
On the radio this morning, it was rumor that the agent followed the local guy to McDonald's from the club.

Agent is boned.

Rumors don't hold water in court, facts do.

Everything you are hearing/seeing in the papers is speculation.

Ever heard of the  word "spin"?

I agree. When I said the word rumor, it was a strategic choice. All we can really do is wait for clarification!

Anybody else think it is irresponsible to be making inflamatory and unsubtantiated statements.......by the deceased attourney?

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20111108_Federal_agent_is_free_on_bail_as_details_of_shooting_emerge.html?1a

Why isn't the local bar telling this guy to STFU?  Or have things gotten SOOOOOO anti-haole since I left in '94 that THAT is all that matters?

Lawyers being lawyers man.  No the anit-haole sentiment isn't what the media/lawyer drums it up to be.

Cougar8045

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #52 on: November 08, 2011, 09:34:05 AM »
A quick rundown of the facts as I understand them:  Deedy and Elderts didn't meet until McDonald's.  There was an altercation, three shots were fired by Deedy, and Elderts ended up dead.  A bloody knife was recovered at the scene, and Deedy was performing CPR when police arrived. 

Green explains it by saying that they had harsh words, Deedy kicked Elderts in the chest and knocked him down, Elderts came up fighting, and Deedy shot him.  That story changed from the original story, which was presented as fact, that Deedy followed Elderts to McDonald's from the club.  Apparently that story was based on plain old conjecture by the family of the deceased.  There is no explanation for the knife at the scene.

According to the news, Deedy's three friends said that there was an altercation at McDonald's during which Elderts drew a knife.  Deedy drew his pistol in response, and when Elderts failed to stop, shot him.  That explanation checks with a bloody knife found at the scene: You're threatening me with a knife, and I shoot you in the chest.  Where do your hands go?  Straight to your chest, which is now bleeding profusely.  Additionally, people who gun other people down like dogs for no reason rarely holster their weapon and immediately begin first aid.  That's the sort of thing people do when they're well-trained CCW holders and feel they've made a fully justified shoot. 

Eldert's side of the story is being told by an attorney who seems to widely reviled, and has already changed his story a number of times.

Deedy's side of the story is being reported apparently from the statements his friends made.  Who are the three friends?  I feel safe assuming that a State Department Special Agent on assignment would go out and check out the night life with coworkers, which indicates that the story is coming from three State Dept. employees.

Which story makes more sense?  Which story explains the few established facts we know about?
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GZire

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #53 on: November 08, 2011, 03:07:25 PM »
A quick rundown of the facts as I understand them:  Deedy and Elderts didn't meet until McDonald's.  There was an altercation, three shots were fired by Deedy, and Elderts ended up dead.  A bloody knife was recovered at the scene, and Deedy was performing CPR when police arrived. 

Green explains it by saying that they had harsh words, Deedy kicked Elderts in the chest and knocked him down, Elderts came up fighting, and Deedy shot him.  That story changed from the original story, which was presented as fact, that Deedy followed Elderts to McDonald's from the club.  Apparently that story was based on plain old conjecture by the family of the deceased.  There is no explanation for the knife at the scene.

According to the news, Deedy's three friends said that there was an altercation at McDonald's during which Elderts drew a knife.  Deedy drew his pistol in response, and when Elderts failed to stop, shot him.  That explanation checks with a bloody knife found at the scene: You're threatening me with a knife, and I shoot you in the chest.  Where do your hands go?  Straight to your chest, which is now bleeding profusely.  Additionally, people who gun other people down like dogs for no reason rarely holster their weapon and immediately begin first aid.  That's the sort of thing people do when they're well-trained CCW holders and feel they've made a fully justified shoot. 

Eldert's side of the story is being told by an attorney who seems to widely reviled, and has already changed his story a number of times.

Deedy's side of the story is being reported apparently from the statements his friends made.  Who are the three friends?  I feel safe assuming that a State Department Special Agent on assignment would go out and check out the night life with coworkers, which indicates that the story is coming from three State Dept. employees.

Which story makes more sense?  Which story explains the few established facts we know about?

Unfortunately at this point we still don't know the facts.  The reporters have just been regurgitating all the stories people have told them.  No one has gone out and verified anything.  Typical of Hawaii's "journalists."  It's the same BS that goes on TV and in the papers, everyone just repeats what someone else has said.

Hopefully someone will go and pull those friggen security tapes.  Hopefully then we'll be able to establish a basic line of events.

vooduchikn

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #54 on: November 08, 2011, 03:20:40 PM »
A quick rundown of the facts as I understand them:  Deedy and Elderts didn't meet until McDonald's.  There was an altercation, three shots were fired by Deedy, and Elderts ended up dead.  A bloody knife was recovered at the scene, and Deedy was performing CPR when police arrived. 

Green explains it by saying that they had harsh words, Deedy kicked Elderts in the chest and knocked him down, Elderts came up fighting, and Deedy shot him.  That story changed from the original story, which was presented as fact, that Deedy followed Elderts to McDonald's from the club.  Apparently that story was based on plain old conjecture by the family of the deceased.  There is no explanation for the knife at the scene.

According to the news, Deedy's three friends said that there was an altercation at McDonald's during which Elderts drew a knife.  Deedy drew his pistol in response, and when Elderts failed to stop, shot him.  That explanation checks with a bloody knife found at the scene: You're threatening me with a knife, and I shoot you in the chest.  Where do your hands go?  Straight to your chest, which is now bleeding profusely.  Additionally, people who gun other people down like dogs for no reason rarely holster their weapon and immediately begin first aid.  That's the sort of thing people do when they're well-trained CCW holders and feel they've made a fully justified shoot. 

Eldert's side of the story is being told by an attorney who seems to widely reviled, and has already changed his story a number of times.

Deedy's side of the story is being reported apparently from the statements his friends made.  Who are the three friends?  I feel safe assuming that a State Department Special Agent on assignment would go out and check out the night life with coworkers, which indicates that the story is coming from three State Dept. employees.

Which story makes more sense?  Which story explains the few established facts we know about?

Unfortunately at this point we still don't know the facts.  The reporters have just been regurgitating all the stories people have told them.  No one has gone out and verified anything.  Typical of Hawaii's "journalists."  It's the same BS that goes on TV and in the papers, everyone just repeats what someone else has said.

Hopefully someone will go and pull those friggen security tapes.  Hopefully then we'll be able to establish a basic line of events.

Anything to bolster ratings.
Relax, I've banned myself..

nf9648

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #55 on: November 08, 2011, 03:36:40 PM »
 
I think the attorney is trying to build up anti-haole sentiment before the trial - which would be a jury of people from Hawaii....No mourning period has passed and the family hired an attorney...What does that tell you????? :crazy: :(

Sovereign Nation of Hawaii or the Kingdom probably gave them one free of charge. :shaka:

vooduchikn

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #56 on: November 08, 2011, 04:20:33 PM »
I think the attorney is trying to build up anti-haole sentiment before the trial - which would be a jury of people from Hawaii....No mourning period has passed and the family hired an attorney...What does that tell you????? :crazy: :(

Sovereign Nation of Hawaii or the Kingdom probably gave them one free of charge. :shaka:

Some more media spin.

Where is the lawyer getting his info again?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8876976/US-State-Department-agent-on-assignment-in-Honolulu-charged-with-murder-in-McDonalds.html
Relax, I've banned myself..

Kingkeoni

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2011, 04:36:58 PM »
I think the attorney is trying to build up anti-haole sentiment before the trial - which would be a jury of people from Hawaii....No mourning period has passed and the family hired an attorney...What does that tell you????? :crazy: :(

Sovereign Nation of Hawaii or the Kingdom probably gave them one free of charge. :shaka:

Some more media spin.

Where is the lawyer getting his info again?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8876976/US-State-Department-agent-on-assignment-in-Honolulu-charged-with-murder-in-McDonalds.html

I think the attorney is attempting to "poison" the minds of Hawaii residents by spreading these statements.

Should this go to a jury trial, someone might have read his comments and believed them as truth.
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

fstbckgt

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #58 on: November 08, 2011, 04:39:54 PM »
^ WOW, now thats ridiculous.

pj_benn

Re: Federal agent involved in Waikiki shooting
« Reply #59 on: November 08, 2011, 04:50:26 PM »
Re: "facts" I thought the guy was apprehended a few blocks away. I wish the police would give us more info.

 if it was a legit shoot and the deceased was at fault im assuming they wouldnt be making us wait till after APEC to find out all the details.