72 yo shoots man.. ? (Read 9761 times)

Heavies

72 yo shoots man.. ?
« on: March 08, 2016, 11:03:21 AM »
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=31410857

Quote
PUNA, BIG ISLAND (HawaiiNewsNow) - Hawaii Island police have arrested a 72-year-old man following a fatal shooting that happened just after 5:00 p.m. Monday in Kapoho.

Pure speculation on my part, but sounds like 72 yo man needed to protect himself.  With Hawaii's dumb laws, outside the house, never mind if you are on YOUR PROPERTY, will get you charged.  Hawaii loves to coddle criminals.  If this is self defense, I'm sure we won't hear one more word about it, even as the poor guy get convicted for being a victim.

Thoughts or anyone in the know?

Mauivigilance

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Total likes: 11
  • I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery
  • Referrals: 0
    • View Profile
Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2016, 11:23:54 AM »
The intent of the laws mean well and i get the INTENTION...... But than again i remember the quote "the road to hell is paved on good intentions"  Criminals love these kinds of laws because it doesnt apply to them. *logic*
The only ism that has not failed me yet is skepticism.....

aieahound

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2016, 11:51:32 AM »
Suspect (72 yr old) being threatened with a baseball bat.

As long as the shooting was on his property and the bat was still there I would hope he gets off for justifiable shooting.

Anyone who shoots anyone anywhere in Hawaii, including in your home of an armed intruder, should expect to be arrested.
Hopefully not convicted though.
But in this State, who knows.

Our Castle Doctrine law sucks but HRA testified against strengthening it last legislative session.  >:(

ren

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2016, 11:54:10 AM »
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=31410857

Pure speculation on my part, but sounds like 72 yo man needed to protect himself.  With Hawaii's dumb laws, outside the house, never mind if you are on YOUR PROPERTY, will get you charged.  Hawaii loves to coddle criminals.  If this is self defense, I'm sure we won't hear one more word about it, even as the poor guy get convicted for being a victim.

Thoughts or anyone in the know?

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/31409846/proposed-law-would-release-some-inmates-to-ease-jail-overcrowding
Deeds Not Words

Q

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2016, 01:08:13 PM »
Love how the guy who got shot was the "victim"

punaperson

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2016, 01:56:26 PM »
As soon as the anchor said "the town of Kapoho" I was assured that what was to follow  had a substantial probability of inaccuracy.

Second degree murder is the charge. I wonder if this case will take the hotshot Hilo detectives as long to solve ("self-defense") as the Dana Ireland murder?  >:(

It's gonna be a "he said" case, unless they've got Columbo or Monk on staff now.

eyeeatingfish

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2016, 02:38:05 AM »
An arrest for taking a life is fairly standard. Doesn't mean he will be charged with the crime though. Probably interrogated and released pending the rest of the investigation.

punaperson

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2016, 08:04:18 AM »
She liked the older guy better, so...

http://westhawaiitoday.com/news/local-features/witnesses-say-fatal-shooting-over-love-triangle

Excerpt:

A fatal shooting early Monday evening in lower Puna might have been the deadly result of a love triangle.

Sources, who asked not to be named, identified the victim as 57-year-old Bryan Thomas, a neighbor of the alleged shooter, Richard “Rick” R. Edwards, in the gated Kapoho Beach Lots subdivision. They said the 72-year-old Edwards was romantically involved with Thomas’ former girlfriend.

Capt. Robert Wagner of the Hilo Criminal Investigation Division said Tuesday police were withholding the identity of the victim pending notification of mainland relatives.

According to media reports, Thomas went to Edwards’ home on Kumukahi Road to confront Edwards with a baseball bat, and fell victim to a 12-gauge shotgun blast. Wagner declined to confirm some of the details in those reports.

Rocky

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2016, 09:12:33 AM »
"Edwards was arrested Monday night on suspicion of second-degree murder and was being held pending further investigation by detectives. He had not been charged as of late Tuesday afternoon."

I could never understand being held without charges. ???
If you're not charged with a crime, why or how can you be held ?  :crazy:
What happened to innocent until proven guilty ?  :grrr:
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

macsak

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2016, 09:19:08 AM »
"Edwards was arrested Monday night on suspicion of second-degree murder and was being held pending further investigation by detectives. He had not been charged as of late Tuesday afternoon."

I could never understand being held without charges. ???
If you're not charged with a crime, why or how can you be held ?  :crazy:
What happened to innocent until proven guilty ?  :grrr:

i believe they have 24 hours to charge you

aieahound

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2016, 09:32:08 AM »
You can be arrested and held for 48 hours without charges.

macsak

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2016, 09:39:51 AM »
You can be arrested and held for 48 hours without charges.

i stand corrected...

ren

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2016, 11:21:54 AM »
Suspect (72 yr old) being threatened with a baseball bat.

As long as the shooting was on his property and the bat was still there I would hope he gets off for justifiable shooting.

Anyone who shoots anyone anywhere in Hawaii, including in your home of an armed intruder, should expect to be arrested.
Hopefully not convicted though.
But in this State, who knows.

Our Castle Doctrine law sucks but HRA testified against strengthening it last legislative session.  >:(

he is now charged with murder.
http://khon2.com/2016/03/08/kapoho-shooting-victim-identified-suspect-arrested-for-murder

In Hawaii, if your life is threatened; call 911, then wait while your life is threatened
Deeds Not Words

Heavies

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2016, 11:30:42 AM »

http://westhawaiitoday.com/news/local-features/witnesses-say-fatal-shooting-over-love-triangle


According to media reports, Thomas went to Edwards’ home on Kumukahi Road to confront Edwards with a baseball bat, and fell victim to a 12-gauge shotgun blast. Wagner declined to confirm some of the details in those reports.

Sounds like self defense to me...  If a cop would shoot, then a citizen should be afforded the same rights.  A baseball bat is a deadly weapon, if faced with attack, a reasonable person should be able to respond with equal force to stop the attack.

As the facts are shown a better picture could be seen, like I said if the facts don't point to the 'agenda' then I doubt we will see the real story.   

aieahound

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2016, 11:37:46 AM »
he is now charged with murder.
http://khon2.com/2016/03/08/kapoho-shooting-victim-identified-suspect-arrested-for-murder

In Hawaii, if your life is threatened; call 911, then wait while your life is threatened

Charged with....or arrested on suspicion of ?

Sounds like self defense to me...  If a cop would shoot, then a citizen should be afforded the same rights.  A baseball bat is a deadly weapon, if faced with attack, a reasonable person should be able to respond with equal force to stop the attack.

As the facts are shown a better picture could be seen, like I said if the facts don't point to the 'agenda' then I doubt we will see the real story.   
I agree.
But he shot him outside the home in the driveway.
This poor guy might be screwed.

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0703/HRS_0703-0304.htm

     (5)  The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section if:
     (a)  The actor, with the intent of causing death or serious bodily injury, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or
     (b)  The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:
         (i)  The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work, unless he was the initial aggressor or is assailed in his place of work by another person whose place of work the actor knows it to be;
« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 11:43:20 AM by aieahound »

ren

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2016, 11:54:50 AM »
Sounds like self defense to me...  If a cop would shoot, then a citizen should be afforded the same rights.  A baseball bat is a deadly weapon, if faced with attack, a reasonable person should be able to respond with equal force to stop the attack.

As the facts are shown a better picture could be seen, like I said if the facts don't point to the 'agenda' then I doubt we will see the real story.

If you were LE you could do a lot of things: beat up people in a game room, play rough with your girlfriend at a restaurant...
Deeds Not Words

Heavies

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2016, 01:59:31 PM »
Charged with....or arrested on suspicion of ?
I agree.
But he shot him outside the home in the driveway.
This poor guy might be screwed.

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0703/HRS_0703-0304.htm

     (5)  The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section if:
     (a)  The actor, with the intent of causing death or serious bodily injury, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or
     (b)  The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:
         (i)  The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work, unless he was the initial aggressor or is assailed in his place of work by another person whose place of work the actor knows it to be;

I agree.  It's the law.   Does it make it right.  Not IMHO.

If I were on the jury, I'd weigh the facts on what is right and reasonable.   again JMHO

punaperson

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2016, 04:04:50 PM »
I agree.  It's the law.   Does it make it right.  Not IMHO.

If I were on the jury, I'd weigh the facts on what is right and reasonable.   again JMHO
(b)  The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take

Interesting that the lawmakers chose to require that a person have "knowledge" that retreating would result in "complete safety". Often the language is along the lines of "reasonable belief" or "when a reasonable person would conclude", etc. Defense attorney to client on the stand: "When you saw the deceased walking up your driveway carrying a baseball bat and shouting threats to kill you, did you KNOW that you could have retreated in complete safety?" Client on stand: "No." Defense attorney: "Your honor, I rest my case."

Of course it's not really that simple, but a jury might be inclined to see it as self-defense even if the requirement were "reasonable belief or conclusion". Another factor might be whether either party had prior arrests/convictions, especially for violent acts or threats.

I suppose that the prosecutor could claim that the defendant could have "compl[ied] with a demand that he abstain from any action" by simply saying "Okay, I won't f*ck your former girlfriend any more." Would the guy with the bat simply have stopped, said "thanks", turned around, and headed home?

aieahound

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2016, 04:25:20 PM »
That whole Castle Doctrine law is almost not understandable and subject to interpretation. IMO.
That's my point. (But just an opinion)

Although shooting him was pretty extreme, walking up a guy's driveway carrying a baseball bat is pretty extreme too.
Play stupid games....

Hopefully we hear released pending further investigation.

I guess we gotta wait until all the facts come out ( which we'll never hear about ) if you hear anything Puna let us know.

punaperson

Re: 72 yo shoots man.. ?
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2016, 06:51:36 PM »
http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/local-news/alleged-shooter-released-custody

(link is for subscribers only, unless you can read superfast...)

A 72-year-old man police say shot a neighbor to death early Monday evening in a gated lower Puna subdivision was released from custody pending further investigation.

Richard “Rick” R. Edwards of Kapoho Beach Lots was arrested at the scene on suspicion of second-degree murder and held at the Hilo police cellblock. After conferring with prosecutors, detectives released him at 3:50 p.m. today.