Poll

Would you be willing to pay a fee at n FFL to register your firearms and/or conduct firearms transfers? How much would you be willing to pay?

Yes $10-20
30.6%
Yes $20-30
25%
Yes $30-40
0%
Yes, I have to much money and will pay anything
2.8%
HELL NO,
41.7%
Total Members Voted
36

Would you be willing to pay......... (Read 18791 times)

mrgaf

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2016, 06:59:37 AM »
with the pigs @ HPD, especially the head porker Kealoha and the libertards in the state senate and house, not to mention the jerks in DC that represent us, it will never happen. They do what they do because they can and the harder they make is for us to have our firearms and KEEP them, the better they like it! Nothing will ever change in our favor until we stop voting the same jerks back into office. Hawaii is just a "revolving door state" that "recycles" the same old idiots back into office time and time again. I've even spoken to people some who own guns and say "well I like to shoot but the second ammendment is not my top priority. To me there are other things that are much more important". I've come to find out that there are quite a few out there who think this way. Others are union people who vote the way the union tells them, spineless. We are surrounded by "low information voters" on both sides of the party fence. We have met the enemy and they are us, unfortunately........ :wtf:
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Only good liberal is one taking a dirt nap.

punaperson

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2016, 08:08:00 AM »
Their is already case law (appeals court, DC) that states that requiring someone to bring their firearm to a police station to register it is unconstional, so yes I do see it as feasible that this could happen in the future.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/09/18/d-c-gun-registration-law-ruled-unconstitutional/,
My response/questions were directed to Q's post, but

I was unable to view that article. However, today the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Police Department website reads:

"If you already own the firearm, bring the UNLOADED gun with you.  If registering a semi-automatic firearm, do bring the empty accompanying magazine. Please note that it is illegal to possess a magazine that holds more than ten rounds of ammunition in the District of Columbia."

So whatever legal precedent you are talking about isn't in effect.

Also, Circuit Court of Appeals rulings have no precedent weight in other Circuits, so no matter what D.C. courts say, it will have absolutely no bearing on Hawaii and the most liberal circuit in the U.S., the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

So you agree that short of a judicially-mandated requirement the local authorities have no motive or reason to change their policies to what you advocate?

punaperson

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2016, 08:25:47 AM »
Finically, the county's  would save money by being able to reduce the number of officers service ing the firearms departments, if the forms were being colemeted by an FFL then the number of people needing service at the PD would decrease essentially by 50%, also by having the FFL's charge a fee their would also be increase tax revenue,  based on 2014 numbers around $25k not to mention the increased revenue for local buisniess and potential all for job growth,

Safety wise, people would not have to make an unnecessary trip to the PD, reducing the possibility of a firearm being lost or stolen, or being shot by an overselous police officer.
What makes you think 1. the counties want to save money, and/or 2. anyone in government wants to "reduce the number of officers servicing the firearms department"? When was the last time any government agency voluntarily cut, limited, or restricted their own budget or personnel? Any amount of "tax revenue" from such a scheme is so small as to not really matter at all in the real world, and anyone proposing legislation or bureaucratic overhaul on the basis of the tax revenue would be laughed out of the room. Same with business revenue and "job growth". Seriously? Similar arguments were used in Washington state when they (Bloomberg's minions) were lying informing the public of all the benefits of having all gun transfers go through FFLs. And you know what happened after that law passed, right? Yeah, a vast number of those FFLs said "F you. It's not worth our time to process that paperwork. Go somewhere else." Just sayin'...

As for your safety assertion, how many times in the past year, or five years, or ten years, or twenty years has a firearm been lost or stolen while legally registering it? Remember, legally you can't drive anywhere else but directly from your home/gun store/private party to the police station and then directly back home. It got stolen between your car and the police station? You lost it there? How many have been shot during the process "by an overzealous police officer"? Just askin'...

GZire

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2016, 08:57:32 AM »
Then if the firearm ended up being illegal, the FFL would face consequences?

The first objection I see HPD having is that they want to visually inspect the firearm to make sure it is legal.


They don't know a lot of the time.  I've been in Young Guns when they've called Martha to ask her if something was legal.

London808

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2016, 09:41:59 AM »
While it is tempting to pay for the convenience, I reject the entire premise of paying to exercise my rights.  That precedence would open the door to tacking on never ending and ridiculous fees.  And as it is,  it is hard enough to get Hawaii gun peeps to be proactive in fighting for their rights.  If they make it easier, that will encourage this complacency and cause further, and less difficult, chipping of our rights until they are nothing....   JMHO

As it stands the law already allows for them to charge for registration, at any time PD,s can add a fee for registration of every firearm. Thiis is becoming more likley every year as the country's keep running larger defacets. So I'm thinking the fee is coming not mayter what  it's about who gets the money and can we use it to our benefit.
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

dustoff003

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2016, 10:20:14 AM »

As it stands the law already allows for them to charge for registration, at any time PD,s can add a fee for registration of every firearm. Thiis is becoming more likley every year as the country's keep running larger defacets. So I'm thinking the fee is coming not mayter what it's about who gets the money and can we use it to our benefit.

It does matter. The bold is wishful thinking like the HPD, C&C or State care about our benefit!

ren

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2016, 10:23:13 AM »
As it stands the law already allows for them to charge for registration, at any time PD,s can add a fee for registration of every firearm. Thiis is becoming more likley every year as the country's keep running larger defacets. So I'm thinking the fee is coming not mayter what  it's about who gets the money and can we use it to our benefit.
Painful reading. Is this Olde Engrish?
Deeds Not Words

surfmaster

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2016, 11:05:34 AM »
How about giving people the option to have their FFL dealer do the registration for them? If you choose  this option, then you would pay the FFL dealer this fee - not HPD. It would be similar to the FFL transfer fee with a little extra for the FFL to register the gun for you and mail you the document.

It does put the responsibility on the FFL dealer but you're paying him to do the task instead of handling it yourself.

The argument that HPD needs to see the gun is silly because the FFL dealer had to register the firearm in the first place so this first registration has already been completed. Don't see why a second registration by the permit hold is needed when the FFL already did it initially.

powder monkey

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2016, 11:12:44 AM »
no

London808

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2016, 12:10:31 PM »
Painful reading. Is this Olde Engrish?

Sorry its caused by writing on an ipad that auto corrects words and i dont catch it.

The law already allows them to charge a Fee for registration.
§134-3  Registration, mandatory, exceptions.
(e)  No fee shall be charged for the registration of a firearm under this section, except for a fee chargeable by and payable to the registering county for persons registering a firearm under subsection (a), in an amount equal to the fee actually charged by the Federal Bureau of Investigation to the registering police department for a fingerprint check in connection with the registration.  In the case of a joint registration, the fee provided for in this section may be charged to each person
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

Madosi

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2016, 12:10:46 PM »
Get rid of registration one of the reasons in not a resident anymore is hawaiis gun laws. My new state allow neighbor sales and no registration of firearms along with getting your firearms when you purchase them nbot a 2 week waiting period per weapon and even dumber permits. Also SBR's, and suppressors

Q

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2016, 12:22:08 PM »
Get rid of registration one of the reasons in not a resident anymore is hawaiis gun laws. My new state allow neighbor sales and no registration of firearms along with getting your firearms when you purchase them nbot a 2 week waiting period per weapon and even dumber permits. Also SBR's, and suppressors

Not all of us can move

punaperson

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2016, 12:48:52 PM »
Not all of us can move
Yeah, if all the people that believe Constitutional governing is important left, this place'd be circling the drain even more quickly than it already is...

Heavies

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2016, 01:54:24 PM »
Sorry its caused by writing on an ipad that auto corrects words and i dont catch it.

The law already allows them to charge a Fee for registration.
§134-3  Registration, mandatory, exceptions.
(e)  No fee shall be charged for the registration of a firearm under this section, except for a fee chargeable by and payable to the registering county for persons registering a firearm under subsection (a), in an amount equal to the fee actually charged by the Federal Bureau of Investigation to the registering police department for a fingerprint check in connection with the registration.  In the case of a joint registration, the fee provided for in this section may be charged to each person
The fee charged is not for registration per se; it is for the fingerprint processing. I know we are splitting hairs, however, IMHO it would be a better fight to convince 'them' of the waste of tax dollars and police resources on useless registration and monitoring of law abiding citizens.  I cannot quote the exact number, but exactly ZERO crimes have been averted by our firearm registration laws.   But that is nothing new for Hawaii government....  truckloads of money spent, ZERO benefits.

punaperson

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2016, 02:56:09 PM »
The fee charged is not for registration per se; it is for the fingerprint processing. I know we are splitting hairs, however, IMHO it would be a better fight to convince 'them' of the waste of tax dollars and police resources on useless registration and monitoring of law abiding citizens.  I cannot quote the exact number, but exactly ZERO crimes have been averted by our firearm registration laws.   But that is nothing new for Hawaii government....  truckloads of money spent, ZERO benefits.
Adding: Exactly ZERO crimes have been SOLVED by our firearm registration laws.

Remind me again, what's the purpose or point of the law?

"Public safety" would be infinitely more enhanced by allowing law-abiding citizens to lawfully carry firearms outside the home. Notwithstanding forcible-rape-leading-Kauai-county police chief Perry failing to have a clue.

London808

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2016, 05:22:56 PM »
The fee charged is not for registration per se; it is for the fingerprint processing. I know we are splitting hairs, however, IMHO it would be a better fight to convince 'them' of the waste of tax dollars and police resources on useless registration and monitoring of law abiding citizens.  I cannot quote the exact number, but exactly ZERO crimes have been averted by our firearm registration laws.   But that is nothing new for Hawaii government....  truckloads of money spent, ZERO benefits.



"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

Madosi

Re: Would you be willing to pay.........
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2016, 09:12:42 PM »
Yeah, if all the people that believe Constitutional governing is important left, this place'd be circling the drain even more quickly than it already is...



That's true