Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court (Read 9032 times)

230RN

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Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court
« on: March 29, 2016, 12:32:53 AM »
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/03/28/federal-judge-mariana-islands-handgun-ban-violates-2nd-amendment/

Alan Gottlieb of the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) says this may have an impact on 9th Circuit Court decisions.  Like Peruta and Baker.

Gottleib  added:

Quote
This ruling makes it harder for the gun prohibitionists to get around these important Supreme Court victories. This is one more Second Amendment Foundation victory in an unprecedented string of court victories.  But we still must make sure that President Obama or a Hillary Clinton do not stack our courts with anti-rights judges.


Terry, 230RN
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 12:38:44 AM by 230RN »
I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

K30l4

Re: Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2016, 12:42:04 AM »
Howzit Terry. Long time no see.

230RN

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Re: Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2016, 09:33:16 AM »
Goin' good, except for my car being blocked in from the snow pile the plows leave in front of my car.  Not normally a problem (4WD) , but somebody parked an enormous motor home next to me and it was hard to maneuver out of my space.  Damned thing was big as a battleship. Had to zig-zag, foward-reverse kind of stuff to blast my way through the snow pile.

I drift around the boards and sometimes pay more or less attention to each one.  Depends on what's being said.  No offense, but I'm surprised nobody commented on the court case in the OP.

Terry, 230RN

View looking due south from my balcony:  My little car blocked in by snowbank (barely discernible in front of it  --everything's white.)  The battleship's prow shows under my neighbor's balcony.  The thing sticking out from my car is an old broom I leave on the hood when it's going to snow.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 09:48:16 AM by 230RN »
I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

K30l4

Re: Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2016, 10:11:58 AM »
Winter wonderland! So beautiful but plowing all that snow must be tiring! And cold. Things are starting to clear up after some much needed rain.



Front door picture. Still some heavy clouds.

Sorry for high jacking the thread. I'm just glad to see you posting here (again) Terry.
Aloha.

230RN

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Re: Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2016, 09:41:16 AM »
^
Well, frankly sometimes I wonder if it's worthwhile posting political stuff here at all.  Maybe it's my style or something, or the fact that I'm a mainlander, but I certainly expected some response to that decision.

Maybe that case is not as big a deal as I think, but other positive 2A legal stuff seems to be mostly ignored too... whether I post it or not.  This, with the possible exception of the Baker case, where the site owner himself kept the discussion alive and where many of you know him personally.

I've noticed this for most of the 7 years I've been on this board.  It's almost as if the fact that the historically relatively easy living of tropical and subtropical islands, with food readily available from both land and sea, and with mostly mild weather, has resulted in a cultural "shaka," a willingness to let things go, an "it's all good" attitude.

It's almost as if the easy living for centuries has dulled down that sense of independence and the "don't tread on me" fire in the belly attitude necessary to win back some of the freedoms that "Authority" has taken away... at least for most of the Hawaiian population.  Maybe it's a result of the plantation culture?  Or the Royalty structure of days past?  Whatever.

I don't know.  I don't think I'm being a crybaby here, and I don't care if I have 100 posts or 10,000 posts or 10 likes or 100 likes, but it just seems to me that Hawaiians don't care that much about how the laws have subjugated them... or keeps them subjugated.

This is not to say that I'm going to pull a drama queen bit and withdraw from the site, but I'm just commenting on the excessively (to me) easygoing attitude of the general Hawaiian population.  Maybe that's just good for tourism, though, and I'm misinterpreting the situation altogether.

Terry, 230RN



« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 09:48:53 AM by 230RN »
I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

edster48

Re: Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2016, 10:07:37 AM »
This IS good news. Thanks for posting!

I think the reason you're not seeing much for response is that we've been busy trying to fight off the 22 different anti gun measures in the legislature this year.
Always be yourself.
Unless you can be a pirate.
Then always be a pirate.

punaperson

Re: Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2016, 01:55:08 PM »
Well, frankly sometimes I wonder if it's worthwhile posting political stuff here at all.  Maybe it's my style or something, or the fact that I'm a mainlander, but I certainly expected some response to that decision.

Maybe that case is not as big a deal as I think,...
Terry, 230RN
Terry, perhaps this case didn't get much reaction because it doesn't really have any bearing on anything relevant to any other jurisdiction in the United States. This was a total handgun possession ban, similar to the very D.C. law that led to Heller. A lot of the argument in the case was whether the Second Amendment applied in that case in the Northern Marianas because of how they structured their legal relationship to U.S. law, including the Constitution, which they had deleted some parts of (no right to jury trial, etc.). They required a Weapons Identification Card (WIC) to purchase the only allowable long guns (.22 and .223 rifles, no "assault weapons", and .410 shotguns), and you couldn't use "self-defense" or "family protection" as a valid reason. Obviously if Heller applied, then those laws were all unconstitutional, and the judge ruled that Heller applied, despite government arguments to the contrary. Not really anything there that could legally help out anyone anywhere else.

As for the general apathy of Hawaii citizens (lowest voting rate, among the lowest student test scores, highest welfare benefits, lax treatment of recidivist criminals, etc. etc. etc.), good luck with validating a hypothesis.   :shaka:

Heavies

Re: Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2016, 11:41:27 PM »
^
Well, frankly sometimes I wonder if it's worthwhile posting political stuff here at all.  Maybe it's my style or something, or the fact that I'm a mainlander, but I certainly expected some response to that decision.

Maybe that case is not as big a deal as I think, but other positive 2A legal stuff seems to be mostly ignored too... whether I post it or not.  This, with the possible exception of the Baker case, where the site owner himself kept the discussion alive and where many of you know him personally.

I've noticed this for most of the 7 years I've been on this board.  It's almost as if the fact that the historically relatively easy living of tropical and subtropical islands, with food readily available from both land and sea, and with mostly mild weather, has resulted in a cultural "shaka," a willingness to let things go, an "it's all good" attitude.

It's almost as if the easy living for centuries has dulled down that sense of independence and the "don't tread on me" fire in the belly attitude necessary to win back some of the freedoms that "Authority" has taken away... at least for most of the Hawaiian population.  Maybe it's a result of the plantation culture?  Or the Royalty structure of days past?  Whatever.

I don't know.  I don't think I'm being a crybaby here, and I don't care if I have 100 posts or 10,000 posts or 10 likes or 100 likes, but it just seems to me that Hawaiians don't care that much about how the laws have subjugated them... or keeps them subjugated.

This is not to say that I'm going to pull a drama queen bit and withdraw from the site, but I'm just commenting on the excessively (to me) easygoing attitude of the general Hawaiian population.  Maybe that's just good for tourism, though, and I'm misinterpreting the situation altogether.

Terry, 230RN





Pretty much, spot on.  We are working to change that!  Wish us luck!

punaperson

Re: Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2016, 06:53:34 PM »
Well, the Northern Marianas allowed all of 10 days to pass after their law banning ownership/possession of handguns was declared unconstitutional (See Second Amendment, Heller, etc.) before unanimously passing a draconian (insane? unconstitutional?) 57-page "gun control" law. I wish this was from The Onion or some other satire/spoof site, but I'm afraid it's real. What a f***ing joke. A really really really bad joke.


CNMI Gov. Ralph DLG Torres, center, is expected to sign one of the nation’s newest and most restrictive gun control laws into effect in coming days.

http://www.guns.com/2016/04/07/lawmakers-approve-1000-tax-on-handguns-in-lieu-of-total-ban/

Lawmakers approve $1,000 tax on handguns in lieu of total ban

[excerpts]

Just 11 days after a federal judge rejected the Commonwealth of Northern Marianas Islands’ ban on all handguns as unconstitutional, the legislature has approved a severe gun control measure.

On March 28, Chief Judge Ramona Villagomez Manglona, of the U.S. District Court for the Northern Mariana Islands, ruled the territory’s 40-year-old total ban on handguns was unconstitutional, saying “because the people of the Commonwealth are part of the American people who have overwhelmingly chosen handguns as their principal means of self-defense, the Second Amendment protects that right here as well.”

In a reply to the court order barring enforcement, the Commonwealth Senate passed a strict 57-page gun control proposal last week to which the House added a $1,000 per pistol excise tax, which the Senate approved unanimously on April 7, sending the bill to Gov. Ralph DLG Torres for expected signature.

230RN

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Re: Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2016, 09:01:15 AM »

Quote
In a reply to the court order barring enforcement, the Commonwealth Senate passed a strict 57-page gun control proposal last week to which the House added a $1,000 per pistol excise tax, which the Senate approved unanimously on April 7, sending the bill to Gov. Ralph DLG Torres for expected signature.
Shades of Chicago !  I wonder what other parallels to Chicago's attempts to inhibit gun ownership after the SCOTUS decisions could be made here.*   They (Chicago) tried to make laws deliberately intended to inhibit gun ownership.despite the Court's decisions.  Oh, little things like an incredibly unreasonable "training" law, excessive fees, etc...

58,000 population? Gee, that means they only need 29,580 votes (51%) to boot those bastards out of office ! :D 

(Yeah, I know, really only 51% of those who vote.)**

I poked around a little to see what the voting rate in the Northern Marianas was and after I rejected their request to look at my computer clipboard ( Good G-d !) I found this:

http://www.votecnmi.gov.mp/

(You have to click either the "Allow" or "Don't Allow" button to get in.  I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of allowing access to my Clipboard.)

Well, thanks, Election Commission.

Terry, 230RN

* Like Chicago's reputation for voting by deceased persons and multiple voting and other fraudulent voting practices.

** I don't know which of them may be appointments as opposed to being elected to office.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 09:36:39 AM by 230RN »
I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

HiCarry

Re: Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2016, 10:24:01 AM »
Quote
Shades of Chicago !  I wonder what other parallels to Chicago's attempts to inhibit gun ownership after the SCOTUS decisions could be made here.*   They (Chicago) tried to make laws deliberately intended to inhibit gun ownership.despite the Court's decisions.  Oh, little things like an incredibly unreasonable "training" law, excessive fees, etc...


And, like Chicago, they will go back to court to address the multiple impermissible infringements, costing the citizens there tons of money in an attempt to delay the inevitable...

asinapple8805

Re: Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2016, 12:49:02 PM »
I think it would be fun to make a McCulloch v. Maryland argument against the imposition of an extraordinary tax that burdens a right under the Constitution.

I've always wondered if Justice Marshall's famous axioms applied to more than just a state tax imposed on a constitutional right of the federal government, and whether it also applied to state taxes that are imposed to severely limit the constitutional rights of a citizen.

I feel like these kind of questions keep professors of Constitutional law up at night.

punaperson

Re: Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2016, 02:48:11 PM »
I think it would be fun to make a McCulloch v. Maryland argument against the imposition of an extraordinary tax that burdens a right under the Constitution.

I've always wondered if Justice Marshall's famous axioms applied to more than just a state tax imposed on a constitutional right of the federal government, and whether it also applied to state taxes that are imposed to severely limit the constitutional rights of a citizen.

I feel like these kind of questions keep professors of Constitutional law up at night.
The Marianas legislature just needs to change the terminology, if the courts don't do it for them: "It's not a tax, it's a fee." (See: Obamacare via Justice Roberts).

asinapple8805

Re: Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2016, 02:57:15 PM »
The Marianas legislature just needs to change the terminology, if the courts don't do it for them: "It's not a tax, it's a fee." (See: Obamacare via Justice Roberts).

if your parenthetical notation was in reference to NFIB v. Sebelius, then i'm pretty sure you're misreading or incorrectly referencing that decision.  it's okay though.  i don't really feel like arguing with you about something that is kind of off-topic.

punaperson

Re: Court decision may affect Hawaii cases in 9th Circuit Court
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2016, 03:19:05 PM »
if your parenthetical notation was in reference to NFIB v. Sebelius, then i'm pretty sure you're misreading or incorrectly referencing that decision.  it's okay though.  i don't really feel like arguing with you about something that is kind of off-topic.
You're right, I ought to have written "They could call it an "individual mandate and/or "indirect tax"", and then would have conformed to the SCOTUS majority in NFIB v. Sebilius.  :stopjack:

Either way, the law-abiding people of the Marianas who would like to own or possess a handgun for any lawful purpose face a steep financial challenge and will likely only see relief many years down the long slow road of judicial (in)action.