My concept of fairness is "pay for the services you use."  Like if I go to a restaurant with you, we each pay for what we ordered.

Very Interesting interpretation.


I'm all for everyone getting a chance to succeed, it's the American way where people can do anything.  I am happy to pay taxes for other people to go to school, unemployment, welfare, etc so people have a chance at succeeding.  We should get people trained for work, give them support if they are laid off from work, help them with medical emergencies, etc.  However many people take advantage of it and just want to live off of others.  Or worse they feel "entitled" to other peoples money because they think the world owes them something.  I think the problem today is people have that cushion that they can rely on so they don't have the incentive to work as hard.  Back in American history it would be you either worked hard or starved to death and that was a pretty good incentive to try and succeed.  Seems like the goal today is mediocrity. 

Good analysis.


I see poor people say they've been discriminated against and they need money to move up the ladder.  But then I see poor immigrant families (including some of my friends) who came to America with nothing and faced discrimination.  They worked very hard and now they have good jobs, bought homes, and have well educated children.

Although your observation is valid, I would argue that the outcome described is more anecdotal that statistically factual.

There were many that came since the arrival of Captain Cook to the Hawaiian Islands; however, the success you speak was not universally valid for all immigrants.  If we look back in Hawaiian history, we find the most successful immigrants from the Hawaiian Kingdom era to the Territorial era, was the European/American whites that dominated the political-social-economic strata.  Their success was a result of education, but it also helped when they married into the monarchy and enacted discriminatory laws to all ethnic groups but their own.

Since statehood and the fall of the Big Five (for those who still remember them) to the dawn of the 21st century, that all changed with immigrant Asians, particularly Japanese, that redrew the political-social-economic hierarchy in Hawaii.  Although it is true that this transfer of power and status was partially due to hard work and education, the truth to the matter was the work of the progressives/liberals of Hawaii's democratic party (e.g. Daniel Inoye, Spark Matsunaga, Hiram Fong, Dickie Wong, etc.) through the civil rights movement which was the revolution that paved the way for non-white immigrants living in Hawaii to finally have a piece of prosperity.

Unfortunately, the gains that were made were not distributed equally to all immigrants.  Filipinos and other Southeast Asian immigrants were some immigrant groups that did not see social justice until much later, while many Polynesians as well as other Pacific Island peoples are still waiting for their opportunity.

The point that ought to be made is that hard work and continual education is a necessary condition for political-social-economic success; however, those factors by themselves is not sufficient enough to attain it.



Kuleana

Although your observation is valid, I would argue that the outcome described is more anecdotal that statistically factual.

There were many that came since the arrival of Captain Cook to the Hawaiian Islands; however, the success you speak was not universally valid for all immigrants.  If we look back in Hawaiian history, we find the most successful immigrants from the Hawaiian Kingdom era to the Territorial era, was the European/American whites that dominated the political-social-economic strata.  Their success was a result of education, but it also helped when they married into the monarchy and enacted discriminatory laws to all ethnic groups but their own.

Since statehood and the fall of the Big Five (for those who still remember them) to the dawn of the 21st century, that all changed with immigrant Asians, particularly Japanese, that redrew the political-social-economic hierarchy in Hawaii.  Although it is true that this transfer of power and status was partially due to hard work and education, the truth to the matter was the work of the progressives/liberals of Hawaii's democratic party (e.g. Daniel Inoye, Spark Matsunaga, Hiram Fong, Dickie Wong, etc.) through the civil rights movement which was the revolution that paved the way for non-white immigrants living in Hawaii to finally have a piece of prosperity.

Unfortunately, the gains that were made were not distributed equally to all immigrants.  Filipinos and other Southeast Asian immigrants were some immigrant groups that did not see social justice until much later, while many Polynesians as well as other Pacific Island peoples are still waiting for their opportunity.

The point that ought to be made is that hard work and continual education is a necessary condition for political-social-economic success; however, those factors by themselves is not sufficient enough to attain it.

Kuleana

waiting for what?

Waiting for the institutionalized discrimination to decrease to a level that allows a fair chance.  Let us look at the Hawaii's Department of Education for example post statehood.  There was a time when a huge majority of the teachers were Japanese.  Was this due to the fact that other non-white residents in Hawaii were less educated or did not work hard enough?  Of course not, it was due to the discriminatory practices at that time.  This situation could be said almost to all other local government branches as well.  It  was only towards the end of the 20th century that you had a decent number of Filipino, Vietnamese, etc. working in any public school or other branches of government in Hawaii.


There are opportunities out there.

What opportunities are you talking about?  If your saying minimum wage jobs, you are correct.  However, if you are talking about the decent paying jobs in the vicinity of downtown Honolulu, good luck in applying.  I surely hope you went to Punahou or Iolani or some big name university because if you graduated in a low income public school district, your chances are next to none.  If that was not bad enough, you should already know the amount of cronyism and nepotism that does exists in Hawaii further makes it difficult for anyone to climb the socio-economic ladder.  Why do you think there is a constant exodus of local-born residents that bolt to the US mainland?


Like my man Keslo once said...this stuff is beamed out all over the place...just gotta know how to grab it...


There are wealthy, happy Hawaiians. You don't hear about them. Why? Because they are happy and content

We don't hear much of them because they are a tiny MINORITY of the total amount of Native Hawaiians living in Hawaii.


We hear about the ones that are not happy and want everyone else to be unhappy as much as them. They do sit ins.

We hear more disenfranchised Native Hawaiians because they are the MAJORITY of Native Hawaiians living in Hawaii.


There are many doors to open. I was taught that if ONE doesn't open try another and another. As you explore each door you build a thing called character.

I never disagreed with that.


Kuleana

All ethnicity have have successful people and poor people, and majority of them start out on a level playing field.  Maybe this generation or the previous one.  I find successful people have ambition, courage to take risks, adaptable, have foresight, work hard, can accept failure and learn from it, and attitude that they are 100% responsible for their own success.  Some poorer people do have these traits and they need encouragement and a helping start.  Other people that get no where tend to blame society for their problems, don't want to change, and just want to get by.

Although I do believe you should take responsibility for your success or failures in life, society does has to take some blame, for example, if it allows government corruption to thwart one's attempts to better themselves.


There are people of all ethnicities that start at the very bottom and become very successful.  There are no excuses nowadays.

Once again, more exceptions rather than the rule.  Remember those real estate infomercials from Tom Vu.  Are we really going to believe all Vietnamese or any immigrants become as successful?


College and trade schools are already free for the poor and grants help to pay for living expenses while in school.  There are lots of good paying jobs in Hawaii right now.  You may not get rich, but you can live a good life on it.

Good paying jobs in Hawaii?  Please tell me what they are and how much they pay cause I think myself and many on this forum would sincerely like to know.     


Kuleana

All ethnicity have have successful people and poor people, and majority of them start out on a level playing field.  Maybe this generation or the previous one.  I find successful people have ambition, courage to take risks, adaptable, have foresight, work hard, can accept failure and learn from it, and attitude that they are 100% responsible for their own success.  Some poorer people do have these traits and they need encouragement and a helping start.  Other people that get no where tend to blame society for their problems, don't want to change, and just want to get by.

Although I do believe you should take responsibility for your success or failures in life, society does has to take some blame, for example, if it allows government corruption to thwart one's attempts to better themselves.

There are people of all ethnicities that start at the very bottom and become very successful.  There are no excuses nowadays.

Once again, more exceptions rather than the rule.  Remember those real estate infomercials from Tom Vu.  Are we really going to believe all Vietnamese or any immigrants become as successful?

College and trade schools are already free for the poor and grants help to pay for living expenses while in school.  There are lots of good paying jobs in Hawaii right now.  You may not get rich, but you can live a good life on it.

Good paying jobs in Hawaii?  Please tell me what they are and how much they pay cause I think myself and many on this forum would sincerely like to know.     

Kuleana