Where did anyone say that he should be fined or fired?  Where did anyone say he should be deported and...how do you deport a citizen? Really, now we're what iffing?

I like many countries better than the present America (but maybe not the original America, as Kuleana said). I would surely move to such other countries if not for the fact that I was born here, only speak English, etc. If that's not good enough of an answer, should we start deporting US citizens who aren't patriotic?

Patriotism is what really created this debate on Kaepernick. Pretty much all of us here agree that his views on racism and oppression are silly, especially given his position. But some of us defend his actions nevertheless, while others choose to ridicule him. I wonder what each of us would have said if Kaepernick didn't stand for the anthem simply because he hates this country, and he didn't give any reason why. What if Ichiro Suzuki was the one who sat for the anthem instead?
What if's are great here because asking the question helps to clarify each of our positions. A few people in this thread are coming very close to suggesting that Kaepernick should be deported, or fined for his actions. Since the government isn't supposed to punish him, let's have his employer or society punish him in its place.

It's easy to deport a US citizen. Just elect Trump, maybe it will happen a lot. And didn't we deport Snowden? I guess they say Snowden committed a "crime" but with how inconsistent the courts are, they could say Kaepernick committed a crime if they wanted to. Stuff like that happens.

You probably don't support free speech as strongly as you think you do, if you are okay with Kaepernick being fined or fired, or even publicly ridiculed by society en-masse for his actions. Yes, technically that's allowed by our 1st Amendment as it is interpreted today, but remember that freedom of speech is a global idea that is not limited to modern America's lacking understanding of it.

I like many countries better than the present America (but maybe not the original America, as Kuleana said). I would surely move to such other countries if not for the fact that I was born here, only speak English, etc. If that's not good enough of an answer, should we start deporting US citizens who aren't patriotic?

Patriotism is what really created this debate on Kaepernick. Pretty much all of us here agree that his views on racism and oppression are silly, especially given his position. But some of us defend his actions nevertheless, while others choose to ridicule him. I wonder what each of us would have said if Kaepernick didn't stand for the anthem simply because he hates this country, and he didn't give any reason why. What if Ichiro Suzuki was the one who sat for the anthem instead?
What if's are great here because asking the question helps to clarify each of our positions. A few people in this thread are coming very close to suggesting that Kaepernick should be deported, or fined for his actions. Since the government isn't supposed to punish him, let's have his employer or society punish him in its place.

It's easy to deport a US citizen. Just elect Trump, maybe it will happen a lot. And didn't we deport Snowden? I guess they say Snowden committed a "crime" but with how inconsistent the courts are, they could say Kaepernick committed a crime if they wanted to. Stuff like that happens.

You probably don't support free speech as strongly as you think you do, if you are okay with Kaepernick being fined or fired, or even publicly ridiculed by society en-masse for his actions. Yes, technically that's allowed by our 1st Amendment as it is interpreted today, but remember that freedom of speech is a global idea that is not limited to modern America's lacking understanding of it.

Today's America for many older citizens is a totally foreign country.

I'd like to understand why people feel like this is not the greatest country on earth and what country they feel is the best.   If they feel another country is better why the hell don't they go over there?

With all due respect Heavies, one reason, as to why the US is no longer the greatest country on Earth, can be readily seen in many of the socio-economic statistics when compared to the rest of the World.  Please see https://rankingamerica.wordpress.com/ for details.  IF those stats are indeed accurate, America is not in the top five things of most items on that site and actually leading in many negative categories. 

The most important reason, however, as to why America is no longer great as it once was, is the fact the very foundations of the United States is being or has been destroyed.  What I am talking about is the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the electoral process of government officials.  These three items is essentially what America was all about, which was the main and only reason that made America GREAT.   Not sports, not the money, not American Idol, not Britany Spears, not the NRA, not the NAACP, not the ACLU, none of those things.

As such, as many on this and many other similar forums know, those hallmarks of America have been either already eradicated (e.g., Fourth Amendment), or in the process of eradication (e.g., First and Second Amendment), corrupted (e.g., Congress and Judicial Branches, Presidential electoral process), and/or subverted beyond recognition (e.g., US Constitution).

As a result, the destruction of those foundations makes the US nothing more than a banana republic, not in form as the American infrastructure still is intact, but rather in substance.  Our elections are being stolen right in front of every American's face and no one is protesting to the level that should be taken for God's sake!

That, above all else, is the compelling reason as to why the US is no longer the greatest nation on Earth.

As to your second question, there is no other country that would make sense to immigrate.  The reason is not because those other nations are far worse than America, but rather, America is not far better than those countries.  Hence, it makes no sense to pick-up and leave the US, if the overall experience in the emigrating country is relatively the same.


Kuleana

Wholly crap China is 80%+ satisfied with their country?

What about the remaining 20%?







They better be satisfied.....  or else!

Like I said, IF those statistics are correct. 

Kuleana

For some of us who have served in a civil or military capacity, yes, there are emotions involved because to us the national anthem and the flag symbolize more than just a piece of fabric.

As that open letter was penned to Kaepernick, few of us can relate to that officer's experience.

I think as conservatives we should uphold our standard to sticking to logic and reason instead of emotion. That is certainly what we preach on the gun control debate.

I do understand there is emotion involved but it distracts us from the heart of the issue.

Why base it in your argument that America sucks ass, if you don't give it credence?

I think that is very much the case here.  You don't see conservatives rioting, looting, and burning down the city even though this jerk off pretty much spits in ALL free America's face.

I'd like to understand why people feel like this is not the greatest country on earth and what country they feel is the best.   If they feel another country is better why the hell don't they go over there?

Do you think Kaepernick could walk into your average american bar in a red state and yell America sucks without being assaulted by at least someone who would call themselves a republican? I don't like speculative questions so I don't expect an answer. I think that in the right setting you would see violence from people who identify as republicans. Did you see the episode of Top Gear where they were somewhere in the south USA? They wrote nascar sucks and various other things that would be popular among the crowd there. Looked like they barely escaped violence from a crowd that you would guess are republicans. (I know, this is anecdotal)

Or are conservatives just too lazy to get out and riot?

If you guys ridicule Kaepernick's opinions on racism, that's fine. When you guys chastize Kaepernick's method of protest because it's not patriotic, that's not good because you are suppressing free speech. If I say "the 1st Amendment should be repealed" that is likewise an attack on free speech, even though my words do not violate the 1st Amendment.  When you say Kaepernick should face "consequences" that means you want to punish his speech.

So some guys here are partly acting like liberals without realizing it. Liberals also like this country. They especially love what this country is becoming. They want to erode the Bill of Rights, especially the 1st and 2nd Amendment. Everyone here supports the 2nd Amendment, but now we are seeing who truly supports free speech, and who does not.

If you guys ridicule Kaepernick's opinions on racism, that's fine. When you guys chastize Kaepernick's method of protest because it's not patriotic, that's not good because you are suppressing free speech. If I say "the 1st Amendment should be repealed" that is likewise an attack on free speech, even though my words do not violate the 1st Amendment.  When you say Kaepernick should face "consequences" that means you want to punish his speech.

So some guys here are partly acting like liberals without realizing it. Liberals also like this country. They especially love what this country is becoming. They want to erode the Bill of Rights, especially the 1st and 2nd Amendment. Everyone here supports the 2nd Amendment, but now we are seeing who truly supports free speech, and who does not.

Reads like theirs not a lot of football fans out there.

   Kaepernick's been with the 9'rs since 2011 and he never had an issue with anybody's "rights"  until this year when he might have been/was supposed to be replaced.
Several options were on the table.
Check is record, he's done nothing but go down hill and basically, he's a shitty quarter back who can't scramble or throw.

   Now because of what he said,  if he is replaced, it's racial discrimination.
His donation is a stunt and if he wanted to do something, he could have sold his foot locker garage full of every pair of Nike shoes ever made to make a statement.
He makes too much money for what he cannot do.

   Da Bears and Vikes.