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Carlisle wants to shutter range? (Read 12151 times)

ren

Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« on: December 23, 2011, 06:17:42 AM »
I heard someone say they heard this last month on news. Carlisle supposedly said that he wanted to cut costs by closing the Kokohead range. Anyone else heard this?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 05:57:05 PM by ren »
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bass monkey

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2011, 07:24:35 AM »
Koko head or the new one they planning?  Nevermind thats a stupid question.

One small step at a time if this is true.
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GZire

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2011, 08:43:22 AM »
Haven't heard anything.

From what I understand the one in Barbers is supposed to be pushed with the intent that a lot of private entities would help to move this forward.  If this is true, then that only leaves Kokohead.
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vooduchikn

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2011, 08:45:42 AM »
Quote from: GZire on December 23, 2011, 08:43:22 AM
Haven't heard anything.

From what I understand the one in Barbers is supposed to be pushed with the intent that a lot of private entities would help to move this forward.  If this is true, then that only leaves Kokohead.

Another reason I am glad to be going back to the mainland.  Politicians usually don't do things that cost them votes, but it has a been a strange few years... ::)
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Mr. Farknocker

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2012, 10:19:47 AM »
I spoke to a buddy of mine a couple of weeks about what he thought was the best way for me to get involved with the City Council to get it to take action to restore the range. He works for the Corporation Council which is the legal department of the City which takes care of the lawsuits filed against it. I lamented the horrible conditions of the range, the limited hours and a couple of other things that I can't recall at this time. My bud is knowledgeable about firearms but doesn't currently own one in Hawaii nor does he go to the range to shoot. Nonetheless, he 'fessed that he wasn't up on the laws affecting the range nor "that side" of City Hall's business but did mentioned the name of the person who is in charge of handling the range matters and said he would make a couple of calls and get back to me. In any event, he mentioned,  in so many words, that he thought that the City is required to maintain a range to comply with some law/regulation for training LE personnel and that the City detests the fact that it must operate the range. Otherwise it would completely shut it down. Sounds something akin to the City's attitude about policing the registration of firearms which it believes is not its job.  Although by bud didn't state that it was of any particular problem, I know that the City has to contend with complaints from the general non-firearm-bearing-enthusiast who see the range as a nuisance. It's sort of like the issuance of liquor license except for one big difference:  firearm registration and range operations makes no money for the City.  He mentioned to me that he was hiking up the serene trails of Koko Head one early morning when at 8 a.m. (he says it could have been 9 am)  sharp, World War III broke out and people on the trail ran for cover. LOL.
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HiCarry

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2012, 04:00:58 PM »
I believe the City is obligated to operate the range as part of a package deal for the other lands it received from the Kaiser estate....or at least that is what we were told when we had a meeting with Kirk Caldwell, acting Mayor, and his staff, when discussing a possible public/private venture to improve Kokohead......
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SpeedTek

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Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2012, 04:12:55 PM »
The city makes a lot of taxes off guns, ammo and accessory sales.  also the taxes they make off all the employees in the fireams business.
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GZire

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2012, 05:21:43 PM »
Quote from: HiCarry on January 03, 2012, 04:00:58 PM
I believe the City is obligated to operate the range as part of a package deal for the other lands it received from the Kaiser estate....or at least that is what we were told when we had a meeting with Kirk Caldwell, acting Mayor, and his staff, when discussing a possible public/private venture to improve Kokohead......
If it was an ordinary Mayor I would take what they said at face value, but Caldwell is an idiot.  I don't think he knows what 2 + 3 equals.



Quote from: SpeedTek on January 03, 2012, 04:12:55 PM
The city makes a lot of taxes off guns, ammo and accessory sales.  also the taxes they make off all the employees in the fireams business.
What taxes does the C&C impose?
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Tom_G

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2012, 09:38:05 PM »
So why exactly is it that not one of us is on the city council?
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Mr. Farknocker

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2012, 09:48:40 PM »
Quote from: GZire on January 03, 2012, 05:21:43 PM
Quote from: HiCarry on January 03, 2012, 04:00:58 PM
I believe the City is obligated to operate the range as part of a package deal for the other lands it received from the Kaiser estate....or at least that is what we were told when we had a meeting with Kirk Caldwell, acting Mayor, and his staff, when discussing a possible public/private venture to improve Kokohead......
If it was an ordinary Mayor I would take what they said at face value, but Caldwell is an idiot.  I don't think he knows what 2 + 3 equals.

That'san easy one. 6.

Quote from: SpeedTek on January 03, 2012, 04:12:55 PM
The city makes a lot of taxes off guns, ammo and accessory sales.  also the taxes they make off all the employees in the fireams business.
What taxes does the C&C impose?
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SpeedTek

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Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2012, 12:03:40 AM »
The Hawaii General Excise Tax (GET) was established in the 1930s and is somewhat unique in that it taxes both goods and services at every level, including food and medical care. It is not the same as the retail sales tax found on the mainland. The GET is currently 4% statewide except on Oahu where a 1/2% surcharge was imposed starting 1/1/2007 to fund rail mass transit. All goods and services on Oahu, including the City and County of Honolulu are taxed at 4 1/2% of gross sales. This GET is assessed on the provider of the goods and services and in turn passes the cost on to the consumer at a rate of 4.712% on Oahu and approx. 4.2% on Neighbor Islands.

You got me on the employee taxes thats the state....

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Political Correctness is FOS
I collect M1 Carbines, PM me if youre selling!
& Bolt Action 308s also 10/22 Rugers.
Buying STOCK Ruger 10/22 parts and bits, PM me.
Now doing Vintage VW Parts!

Mr. Farknocker

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2012, 08:52:22 AM »
Quote from: Mr. Farknkocker on January 03, 2012, 09:48:40 PM
Quote from: GZire on January 03, 2012, 05:21:43 PM
Quote from: HiCarry on January 03, 2012, 04:00:58 PM
I believe the City is obligated to operate the range as part of a package deal for the other lands it received from the Kaiser estate....or at least that is what we were told when we had a meeting with Kirk Caldwell, acting Mayor, and his staff, when discussing a possible public/private venture to improve Kokohead......
If it was an ordinary Mayor I would take what they said at face value, but Caldwell is an idiot.  I don't think he knows what 2 + 3 equals.

That's an easy one. 6.


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GZire

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2012, 05:25:13 PM »
Quote from: SpeedTek on January 04, 2012, 12:03:40 AM
The Hawaii General Excise Tax (GET) was established in the 1930s and is somewhat unique in that it taxes both goods and services at every level, including food and medical care. It is not the same as the retail sales tax found on the mainland. The GET is currently 4% statewide except on Oahu where a 1/2% surcharge was imposed starting 1/1/2007 to fund rail mass transit. All goods and services on Oahu, including the City and County of Honolulu are taxed at 4 1/2% of gross sales. This GET is assessed on the provider of the goods and services and in turn passes the cost on to the consumer at a rate of 4.712% on Oahu and approx. 4.2% on Neighbor Islands.

You got me on the employee taxes thats the state....

OK yeah I completely forgot about the 1/2% tax especially since I hate the idea of Rail and I'm in construction.
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Inspector

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2012, 06:27:12 PM »
Quote from: GZire on January 04, 2012, 05:25:13 PM
OK yeah I completely forgot about the 1/2% tax especially since I hate the idea of Rail and I'm in construction.
I thought I was the only one who felt this way and I work in the construction field.  :shaka:
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GZire

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2012, 09:38:21 AM »
Quote from: Inspector on January 04, 2012, 06:27:12 PM
Quote from: GZire on January 04, 2012, 05:25:13 PM
OK yeah I completely forgot about the 1/2% tax especially since I hate the idea of Rail and I'm in construction.
I thought I was the only one who felt this way and I work in the construction field.  :shaka:

Nope. It seems most of the younger (Engineers) guys here are against the Rail, but the older ones are for it.  Guys for it are mostly due to it being work.  The guys against it are mostly on principal that it won't work and is a waste of money.
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kala201

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2012, 10:03:16 AM »
Quote from: Inspector on January 04, 2012, 06:27:12 PM
Quote from: GZire on January 04, 2012, 05:25:13 PM
OK yeah I completely forgot about the 1/2% tax especially since I hate the idea of Rail and I'm in construction.
I thought I was the only one who felt this way and I work in the construction field.  :shaka:

+1 I'm in construction too and I am completely anti rail and I know at least another dozen guys in construction who are anti-rail too.  The sad part is my union has the majority of its membership brainwashed into thinking rail is a good thing.  It doesn't help matters that my union business manager sits on that rail commitee.  All it is Abercrombie rewarding his crownies so that he can get support.  The manager guy doesn't know jack about rail.  Its all a sham if you ask me.
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GZire

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2012, 01:20:34 PM »
Quote from: kala201 on January 05, 2012, 10:03:16 AM
Quote from: Inspector on January 04, 2012, 06:27:12 PM
Quote from: GZire on January 04, 2012, 05:25:13 PM
OK yeah I completely forgot about the 1/2% tax especially since I hate the idea of Rail and I'm in construction.
I thought I was the only one who felt this way and I work in the construction field.  :shaka:

+1 I'm in construction too and I am completely anti rail and I know at least another dozen guys in construction who are anti-rail too.  The sad part is my union has the majority of its membership brainwashed into thinking rail is a good thing.  It doesn't help matters that my union business manager sits on that rail commitee.  All it is Abercrombie rewarding his crownies so that he can get support.  The manager guy doesn't know jack about rail.  Its all a sham if you ask me.

The thing is I'm for an elevated dual direction roadway (aka the alternative) + the off grade intersections + the such.  That can achieve all that Rail is supposed to as far as putting people to work and not requiring we send all this US money to foreign companies.  The way Carlisle just fell in with Mufi's party line is really scary.  The fact that Caldwell didn't even know the major points of Rail (such as what the stations would look like) is scary.  The fact that these planners want to build from Kapolei into town instead of the opposite direction is scary.  The fact that we are dumping all this money into major redesigns (such as the rerouting by the airport and by the Federal building) is scary.

You have all these fiasco's popping up, the people of Oahu oblivious to it all, and the project hasn't even started.  :shake:
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astroboy

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2012, 12:25:13 PM »
The rail controversy deserves its own posting. I think I will start one in the general category.
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HiCarry

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2012, 01:50:02 PM »
Quote from: GZire on January 03, 2012, 05:21:43 PM
Quote from: HiCarry on January 03, 2012, 04:00:58 PM
I believe the City is obligated to operate the range as part of a package deal for the other lands it received from the Kaiser estate....or at least that is what we were told when we had a meeting with Kirk Caldwell, acting Mayor, and his staff, when discussing a possible public/private venture to improve Kokohead......
If it was an ordinary Mayor I would take what they said at face value, but Caldwell is an idiot.  I don't think he knows what 2 + 3 equals.




I am not sure why you believe he is an "idiot" but in terms of being "gun friendly" we couldn't have done any better for an advocate.....not only was he willing to facilitate building a classroom for use at Kokohead, but wanted to start shooting. He was particularily interested in the cowboy shoots.....
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GZire

Re: Carlisle wants to shutter range?
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2012, 05:37:49 PM »
Quote from: HiCarry on January 06, 2012, 01:50:02 PM
Quote from: GZire on January 03, 2012, 05:21:43 PM
Quote from: HiCarry on January 03, 2012, 04:00:58 PM
I believe the City is obligated to operate the range as part of a package deal for the other lands it received from the Kaiser estate....or at least that is what we were told when we had a meeting with Kirk Caldwell, acting Mayor, and his staff, when discussing a possible public/private venture to improve Kokohead......
If it was an ordinary Mayor I would take what they said at face value, but Caldwell is an idiot.  I don't think he knows what 2 + 3 equals.




I am not sure why you believe he is an "idiot" but in terms of being "gun friendly" we couldn't have done any better for an advocate.....not only was he willing to facilitate building a classroom for use at Kokohead, but wanted to start shooting. He was particularily interested in the cowboy shoots.....


Back when he went on TV to be the City's voice for Rail he was arguing points that were clearly wrong.  I'm talking about facts represented in the City's own plan.  The other persons involved in the discussion as well as the moderator knew those facts yet he didn't.  He represented himself and by extension the City as being unable or unwilling to even have the common decency to review their own documents prior to arriving at this discussion.

When confronted with these facts rather than just saying "I will investigate this," he comes off as accusing everyone else as not knowing the facts.

This is just one incident.  After years of such behavior I personally put very little faith in him.  With Mufi you know he knows he's screwing you over, but at least he's smart enough to know what he's doing.  Caldwell..........idiot.
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