Anybody had any problems in bringing ammo back in checked luggage on United Airlines

found the info on their web site

Most airlines policies are in line with the TSA rules, but it's always best to check each airlines individual websites.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition.

Remember, when travelling with firearms, you will always be at the mercy of the individuals on duty at the desk at that time.  Most TSA and airline personnel are not gun people and although I have never had any problems getting on a plane with everything I brought, it's been a close call a few times.  Be polite and professional, and carry copies of TSA and the airlines specific policies with you.  Never argue with a gate agent, simply ask for a supervisor to be brought out to clear it up. 

When it comes to ammo, If you want to be 100% certain you're good, have the ammo in original packaging where every round is housed in it's own separate space.  Have the ammo inside a locked hardcase just like the firearms, and don't carry more than 11lbs.

Some gotchas:

Loose bulk packs are "original packaging", but may not meet that individual gate agents smell test... a 500ct bulk pack of loose .22lr may be rejected by some airline employees because each round is not separately contained... but all your normal 20ct rifle and 50ct pistol boxes have each round individually stored.  That's the way an airline employee expects it to look and won't bat an eye.  For handloaders, normal plastic Midway or Berry's boxes are also fine.  There is no requirement by the TSA to have your ammunition also inside a locked hardcase... it can be carried just stashed in your checked luggage with your undies.  Airline employees might not like that either, or assume the ammo needs to be inside a locked case like firearms. 

The TSA specifically says that loaded magazines are fine, and that it's also fine to have those loaded magazines in the same locked case as your firearm.  Although magazines must be inside a locked hardcase, and can be in the same case as your guns,  a couple airlines specifically prohibit loaded magazines.  To my knowledge, NO airline prohibits you from carrying ammo in the same case as your firearm.  Again, some airline employees might assume you CANNOT transport a loaded mag, or that you cannot put mags inside the locked hardcase, or that whatever else they misheard or wasn't taught to them.  Take copies of their policies.

11lb max limit for ammo weight.  Airline employees have no idea how much ammo weighs, and a quick Google search reveals nothing I could find of anybody saying they were required to offload their ammo for a separate weigh-test to ensure they're within compliance.  11lbs of .223 is 465rds.  I know that I've transported more than 11lbs on at least a few trips.  Spread the ammo over a couple bags if you think you're close.

When I travel with firearms, I always err to the side of caution and don't set myself up for a misunderstanding about the rules.
All my ammo is in factory or plastic cases, no bulk packs.  No loaded magazines.  My long guns are individually trigger-locked or cable-locked inside a Pelican 1720 that is also locked.  I will usually put a pistol inside a smaller Pelican case inside my checked luggage and not in the larger rifle case just in case the rifle case doesn't make it, I still have my pistol wherever I land.  I always use TSA locks on my checked bags.  I always book extra time to hang out down at the ticket counter if my bags are going to be scanned behind the wall.  In some airports, you take your bags directly to TSA scanners in the ticketing area and can watch them go through the machine.  If your bags are going directly behind the counter and will be scanned out of your sight, there is always the risk that they'll find something they don't like, and you'll be required to come BACK to the counter... which sucks if you head directly to your gate a mile away.  I hang out 15 minutes near the ticket counter just in case.

Lastly... remember that neither TSA no airline employees have any training on "gun stuff".  They are only trained on the specific policies that they are required to know.  They will naturally be overly cautious with anything to do with guns and will always take the most conservative line when it comes to policies.  Set yourself up for success and you'll have no problems.

From the United website... you can read some snippets that are completely effed up.

The container must be locked at the time of acceptance by United Airlines and the key or combination must remain in the customer's possession.
Using a TSA-approved lock can help speed up the security screening process for firearms.
The ammunition may be packed in the same container as the firearm or in a separate container.
The ammunition must be packed in the manufacturer's original package or securely packed in fiber, wood or metal containers.
The ammunition inside the container must be protected against shock and secured against movement.
Loaded ammunition magazines or clips must be removed from the firearm, and must be securely packed in boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition and must fit over any exposed ends of the magazine or clip.

You can't use TSA locks on your hardcase... that is specifically against Federal law... and they say the key must be with the customer, but also advise using TSA locks?  WTF?

It says ammo must be packed in original package... does not list "plastic" as a suitable transport medium (this is where using a Berry's reloading box will get you in trouble), then it says loaded magazines are fine... then is says in the same sentence that the magazine must be in packaging designed for ammo.  How would a magazine fit inside a box designed for ammo?  WTF?

Do the best you can with this stuff... always choose a conservative approach, don't get mad, print it out and be able to demonstrate how you are in compliance.

I had no problems with united, like any other airline.

Great info I was just wondering about bringing ammo back. I don't mean to steal the thread but did any of you guys have a problem bringing ammo back on Hawaiian airlines?

No problems with United.  Just have to be a little careful about how they handle the cases.  In most mainland airports, I've had to claim at the baggage customer service counter (where you go to check for lost bags) and they usually verify the claim ticket and ID.  At HNL, I've had gun cases come out on the main carousel.  Not that big of a deal, but someone could have an easier time walking off with your stuff. 

Great info I was just wondering about bringing ammo back. I don't mean to steal the thread but did any of you guys have a problem bringing ammo back on Hawaiian airlines?

I've only flown on Hawaiian.  Check out their website for the rules and TSA's site.  Hawaiian doesn't allow ammo in mags, even though TSA does.  That is 1 example why you have to check both rules.  Hawaiian also says no bulk loose ammo.  So to me, that means it has to be in it's 20 or 50rd boxes.

The only problem I had is that I had 1 HP round missing from my 50rd box.  That upset me because it's not like HP is cheap range ammo that cost $0.22 a round.  This was almost $0.60.

Remember, what ever airline you choose, always smile and have a good attitude.  That goes a long way with the agents.

Thanks for the heads up I called Hawaiian about a week ago and the lady told me it as to be original box it was bought in and in a hard case separate from my luggage. I was a little confused because she was saying I basically had to pay an extra luggage fee to bring ammunition home. I just want to know if this is the normal procedure or this lady didn't know what she was talking about.

Thanks for the heads up I called Hawaiian about a week ago and the lady told me it as to be original box it was bought in and in a hard case separate from my luggage. I was a little confused because she was saying I basically had to pay an extra luggage fee to bring ammunition home. I just want to know if this is the normal procedure or this lady didn't know what she was talking about.

She doesn't know.

Ammo can be in your checked baggage up to 11lbs.  It does not have to be in a hard sided suit case (only handguns have to ).  Depending what time you call, it's a call center in another state/country.

http://hawaiianair.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/677

Thanks for the heads up I called Hawaiian about a week ago and the lady told me it as to be original box it was bought in and in a hard case separate from my luggage. I was a little confused because she was saying I basically had to pay an extra luggage fee to bring ammunition home. I just want to know if this is the normal procedure or this lady didn't know what she was talking about.

Ammo doesn't have to be in the original boxes.  Just use any ammo boxes that have dividers so each round is separated from the others. 

I buy and store my ammo in bulk.  I toss out the original boxes.

I have several plastic Berry's ammo boxes I use when I go to the range.  Those work fine for flying, too.

She doesn't know.
Ammo can be in your checked baggage up to 11lbs.  It does not have to be in a hard sided suit case (only handguns have to ).  Depending what time you call, it's a call center in another state/country.
http://hawaiianair.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/677

I guess that's a good reason to bring a copy of the rules with you to the airport (or d/l on your phone). It says "Ammunition must be packed separately in the manufacturer's original package or securely packed in fiber, wood or metal boxes." but I can't imagine they would have a problem with the plastic ammo cases.

Thanks for the heads up I called Hawaiian about a week ago and the lady told me it as to be original box it was bought in and in a hard case separate from my luggage. I was a little confused because she was saying I basically had to pay an extra luggage fee to bring ammunition home. I just want to know if this is the normal procedure or this lady didn't know what she was talking about.

This is exactly how you will run into a gate agent who doesn't know her own company policy, or where you will assume that the airline policy is the same as TSA policy.  I'm assuming she misspoke and didn't mean to indicate that ammo needs to come in it's own separate hard-side box and can't be put into your checked luggage... no airline policy is like that.

Here is the Hawaiian policy... and it's a cluster:
http://hawaiianair.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/677/~/firearms-%26-ammunition

If you plan to check a firearm, you will need to do the following:
1.Call the Hawaiian Airlines Reservations Department to provide advance notice
2.Review all federal, state, local, and international laws regarding transportation of firearms
3.Pack your firearm and ammunition according to our guidelines
4.At check-in, declare your firearm to a Hawaiian Airlines representative, who will inspect it and help you complete the necessary paperwork.

Guests under 18 may not check firearms. Packed firearms over 70 lbs. will not be accepted. All other normal bag fees apply. 

Packing your firearm properly
1.Firearms must be unloaded
2.Firearms must be packed in either a manufacturer's crush-proof type container made specifically for the firearms OR a hard-sided container specifically designed for the same purpose.
3.The container must be hard-sided and locked with a key or lock combination possessed only by you, the passenger. Note: It’s OK to pack firearms in a crushproof container with no lock and then in a locked, hard-sided suitcase.

Packing your ammunition properly
1.Ammunition cannot be transported while loaded into a firearm or magazine
2.Ammunition must be packed separately in the manufacturer's original package or securely packed in fiber, wood or metal boxes. Loose or bulk packaging in bags or boxes will not be accepted. Note: Store bought items do not necessarily equate to manufacturer’s original packaging.
3.No more than 11 lbs. of ammunition per person may be transported. Per person ammunition allowances cannot be combined and must be transported separately.


I've never seen a company policy that instructs you to call ahead for advanced notice, nor indicates that an employee will "inspect" it.  I wonder what they are trained to look for?
I've never read a policy that uses the verbiage "crush-proof container".
Does not specifically indicate plastic as an authorized medium.

I just sent an email to HA asking specifically about some of their policies... will letcha all know when they reply.
-Sam

I've never seen a company policy that instructs you to call ahead for advanced notice, nor indicates that an employee will "inspect" it.  I wonder what they are trained to look for?
I've never read a policy that uses the verbiage "crush-proof container".
Does not specifically indicate plastic as an authorized medium.

AFAIK, the advanced notice and inspection is for the firearm, not the ammo. Weird that the policy doesn't include plastic. Wonder why?

This is exactly how you will run into a gate agent who doesn't know her own company policy, or where you will assume that the airline policy is the same as TSA policy.  I'm assuming she misspoke and didn't mean to indicate that ammo needs to come in it's own separate hard-side box and can't be put into your checked luggage... no airline policy is like that.

Yup.  First time I travelled with my guns I was warned to print out both the airline and TSA policies.  For that exact situation.

I was checking in my bags.  Did the whole show unloaded, signed the tag and placed in the bag, etc.  Then as I'm going to lock up the case, she tells me that I need to have TSA locks on them.   

I show her the TSA policy as well her airline policy and she still insists that TSA locks are required.  I tell her to consult her manager and they can ask a TSA agent.  She goes in the back.  A little later, the manager comes out sheepishly and apologizes and just says that the bags will be on their way.  If I can just hang out in the area for maybe 10 minutes just in case TSA asks to access the case, that that would help me from having to come back out after getting through security.  No problem.  The agent never came back out. 

Apparently, their training consists of a PowerPoint presentation that says...

1) All guns = bad
2) Ask a manger if there's an issue.
3) Make shit up if the manager isn't available.

Unfortunately, most skip 2 and go straight to 3.

Apparently, their training consists of a PowerPoint presentation that says...

1) All guns = bad
2) Ask a manger if there's an issue.
3) Make shit up if the manager isn't available.

Unfortunately, most skip 2 and go straight to 3.

Hence why  a smile and positive energy go a long way.  When I checked both with HA, the guy didn't even look inside my pistol case.  He was typing on his computer and said, "you're good" as soon as I opened it.

For the ammo, it was in a cardboard box and I just put it on the scale.  They didn't even open it to see if it was in boxes or loose or even ammo inside.  It could have been bricks for all they know.

But I did have a print out of both HA and TSA rules in my pocket with my registration just in case I ran into any issues.  I didn't want to have to hunt and find the rules on my phone.

My conversation with Hawaiian.  So far, so good... these things rarely resolve themselves on the initial attempt:

---------------------------

Customer By Email   09/26/2017 05:40 AM
I have read HA policy for transportation of firearms and ammunition. It reads that, "at check-in, a Hawaiian Airlines representative will inspect your firearm". I've traveled most major US domestic carriers and have never had my firearm inspected by an airline employee. What will the inspection entail? Additionally, what is the "necessary paperwork" required. On any other airline, the only paperwork has been a declaration tag with only my signature on it that "declares" it as being unloaded. Other airlines specifically list the declaration tag by name and don't use the term "necessary paperwork", which has me wondering if there is any other paperwork specific to HA policy. Does HA require any thing else other than a standard declaration tag? Lastly, "plastic" is not listed as an authorized medium for transportation of ammunition. A lot of factory ammunition is packaged in plastic boxes and is a superior medium to fiber. I suggest "plastic" be added to "fiber, wood or metal" to avoid any confusion.

I'm moving to Kauai and will likely be flying HA a lot with my firearms... just want to be sure I'm all good! THANKS! -Sam


--------------------------

Auto-Response   09/26/2017 05:40 AM
Aloha,
 
Thank you for contacting Hawaiian Airlines Reservations.   
We will respond to your request within 72 hours. If you require immediate assistance, you may call us toll-free at 1-800-367-5320, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
For quick answers to common travel questions, please visit our Frequently Asked Questions .
Mahalo,  Hawaiian Airlines

-----------------------------

From: Hawaiian Airlines Customer Support <Hawaiianair@custhelp.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 7:12 PM
Subject: Hawaiian Airlines Reservations: Baggage Information - Sports Equipment [Incident: 170926-000126]
 
Thank you for allowing us respond to your concerns.
Subject: Hawaiian Airlines Reservations: Baggage Information - Sports Equipment
Response Via Email (Web Support 7)   09/26/2017 01:12 PM
Aloha Samuel,

Thank you for contacting Hawaiian Airlines Reservations.
Please be advised that the term "necessary paperwork" refer to completing a form with stating declaring that the firearm is not loaded.
Kindly note that Passengers are responsible for knowledge of and compliance with all federal, state and international laws regarding possession and transporation of firearms. More information can be found on the TSA website. www.tsa.gov
We appreciate your patience regarding this matter.
Mahalo,
Austin/GTF
Hawaiian Airlines Reservations

-----------------------------

Austin, thanks for answering one of my questions.

My initial email stemmed from reading on this page:
http://hawaiianair.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/677/~/firearms-%26-ammunition

"Necessary paperwork" denotes something far more complicated than placing your signature on a 3x5 card that gets placed in your case.  Most other airlines speak plainly about the declaration tag by calling it exactly what it is... "you will be required to fill out a declaration tag that your firearm is unloaded".  Signing your name and placing it in the box does not require the assistance of a ticket agent in any case.  I believe a lot of confusion may be avoided by replacing the words "necessary paperwork" with the far more commonly used term of "declaration form", which is industry standard.

Additionally, my second question that I believe is far more important is what "inspection" will an agent be performing on my firearm.  I don't believe I've ever actually shown any firearm to any airline employee ever.  In fact, I do my best to be very discreet about it, only opening my case as far as required to slip the declaration tag inside... perhaps 1 inch or so, certainly not enough so that a casual observer could see that there was a firearm in there.  I do this because I've seen people checking firearms remove their guns from the case and start a small panic among other travelers.

So I'll ask again... what specifically is a ticket agent going to do when they "inspect" my firearm since I normally don't intend to let anybody actually look inside the case.

More searching into Hawaiian policies revealed a separate page that is far more helpful for the ammunition question and far more confusing about travel with firearms

Section A: Ammunition
Section E: Firearms (non-sporting)
Section H-12: Shooting Equipement- Sporting Firearms. 

I'd suggest that since plastic is specifically listed as a suitable transport medium on the full explanation of Rule 195 for Ammunition that it be added to the customer help page.[/size][/color][/size]https://www.hawaiianairlines.com/legal/domestic-contract-of-carriage/195-conditions-and-charges-for-acceptance-of-special-items

Just from a organizational view, it's pretty confusing to have your firearms and ammunition information spread out over such a long document.  Initially when I saw this page, I didn't scroll down to section H-12 because I thought Section E was the end of firearms.  But after a more careful look, I believe somebody needs to take a serious look at how confusing this section is. 

There is a blurb at the end of Section E that states: Advance arrangements must be made for any military unit movement. Does this mean that section E only applies to military units when discussing "non-sporting" firearms?  It's damned confusing.

Also, Section H-12 appears to be about "Sporting firearms", but mentions "non-sporting firearms" twice.  Again, damned confusing.

12.  Shooting Equipment – Sporting Firearms
All Firearms must be declared. Regulations at the passenger’s origin or final or intermediate destination(s) apply and may impose further requirements or restrictions. If a firearm is not in compliance with or is prohibited by regulations, it may be denied acceptance. If the firearm is not permitted to enter the port of entry of the passenger’s destination due to laws or regulations governing that jurisdiction and HA transports or otherwise assists in the transport, the passenger will indemnify HA for all losses including, but not limited to, costs and expenses.

Items of non-sporting firearms will be accepted by HA only as checked baggage and will be subject to the conditions of acceptance and prescribed charges specified below:

a.     Conditions of acceptance – Sporting firearms
1)    Firearms must be unloaded and packed in (1) a manufacturer's crush-proof type container manufactured specifically for the firearm or (2) a hard case manufactured specifically for the firearm.
2)    The container must be locked in a way which prevents access to the firearm.
3)    The container containing the firearm must be locked with a key or lock combination which should only remain in the possession of the passenger.
4)    All non-sporting firearms and ammunition will be accepted as checked baggage only.

b.     Charges – Sporting Firearms
1)    When in excess, firearms will be subject to the excess baggage charge for a single piece, whether or not presented as a single piece.

I'm hoping somebody doesn't just blow this email off.  I would really like to know what the ticket agent is going to "inspect" and would hope to see a revision of both the Customer Help page and Section 195.
I have traveled with firearms extensively for decades and never had any issues because look carefully into individual airline policies before I travel.  Hawaiian has me concerned in this regard.
Please let me know if there's anything I can clear up with my concerns.
Sincerely,
Sam XXXX

Even though discussing Hawaiian Airlines is OFF TOPIC .....

I dropped my daughter off at HA terminal for a flight to Seattle.  She had a Pelican rifle case with 4 weapons inside and 11 lbs of ammo in her other baggage.  The Pelican was checked separately as oversized/extra baggage. 

She was directed to the oversize and special luggage inspection station.  The HA agent had her open the case.  He took a swab of the inside to test for explosives, visually inspected the contents without touching any of the firearms, and then had her lock it.  After testing the pad, he cleared her for checking the firearms. If I remember, he put tape across the opening to mark it as inspected.  My daughter signed the firearm declaration form and placed that in the case before locking it.  Not once was she asked to let them look at the ammo packaging or to weigh it.

If that's the process for handguns, too, then the part about an HA rep asking to look in the case is part of the policy.  They may not do that if the locked case is inside another bag, because it won't be tagged separately.

I haven't flown with my pistols on HA, so I can't speak from experience.  I only know HA was more concerned with inspecting the oversize case than I'd expected.  Not a big deal, except the check-in was super-busy, and there was no one at the over-size baggage inspection desk.  I had to go find someone after waiting 10 minutes with 8 more people in line behind us getting impatient.

All I can say is show up extra early.  I usually fly United, and give myself an extra 30-45 minutes to do the firearm declaration -- just in case someone behind the counter is confused.  It's also less risky to not have a crowd eavesdropping on you as you ask to declare a firearm.