Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber w/o manual safety? (Read 32585 times)

Influence

For those who CCW on the mainland or currently live there, did it take time to get comfortable with concealed carrying with a round in the chamber and no manual safety/decocker?  I travel every so often and recently took the CCW class in Vegas and would like to carry on the mainland.

While I'm not new to shooting, I'd be new to CCW and feel I may have an irrational fear about carrying with a round in the chamber without a manual safety or da/sa.  I say irrational as I'd buy a quality holster and would holster the gun prior to clipping it on IWB, so it would never come out unless I'm back at the hotel or unless I absolutely need to use it and I don't really see how the trigger could "accidentally" be pulled if utilized this way.

The two main setups I was considering up until recently would be either a CZ P-01 with decocker or a S&W M&P 2.0 Compact with Manual Safety (not concerned about AD with the CZ).  Currently, I'm debating swapping the M&P to the version without the safety or maybe potentially a glock 19 as I had owned a 23 in the past and shoot glocks well.  Regardless, I'd practice daily as far as drawing and holstering goes.  I'm taking my setup into careful consideration as I've bought and sold guns at a loss multiple times and want to make sure I choose wisely this time.  As far as pistols, I've owned and sold Glock, Sig, and HK.  I currently have a CZ Shadow 2 that's a keeper.  This CCW gun would also be my HD gun.

Am I the only one who has gone through an internal CCW debate?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 06:02:23 PM by Influence »

macsak

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 04:32:38 PM »
For those who CCW on the mainland or currently live there, did it take time to get comfortable with concealed carrying with a round in the chamber and no manual safety/decocker?  I travel every so often and recently took the CCW class in Vegas and would like to carry on the mainland.

While I'm not new to shooting, I'd be new to CCW and feel I may have an irrational fear about carrying with a round in the chamber.  I say irrational as I'd buy a quality holster and would holster the gun prior to clipping it on IWB, so it would never come out unless I'm back at the hotel or unless I absolutely need to use it and I don't really see how the trigger could "accidentally" be pulled if utilized this way.

The two main setups I was considering up until recently would be either a CZ P-01 with decocker or a S&W M&P 2.0 Compact with Manual Safety (not concerned about AD with the CZ).  Currently, I'm debating swapping the M&P to the version without the safety or maybe potentially a glock 19 as I had owned a 23 in the past and shoot glocks well.  Regardless, I'd practice daily as far as drawing and holstering goes.  I'm taking my setup into careful consideration as I've bought and sold guns at a loss multiple times and want to make sure I choose wisely this time.  As far as pistols, I've owned and sold Glock, Sig, and HK.  I currently have a CZ Shadow 2 that's a keeper.  This CCW gun would also be my HD gun.

Am I the only one who has gone through an internal CCW debate?

Israeli carry is only for people like the Israelis who train all the time...

I wouldn't carry unless I was comfortable with one in the chamber and the manual of arms of my carry handgun

oldfart

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 05:49:29 PM »
If I had a CCW, I would feel uncomfortable NOT having a round in the chamber.
What, Me Worry?

Influence

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber?
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2017, 05:53:28 PM »
Thanks all for your replies.  The title is a little misleading and has been changed.  I would plan on carrying with a round in the chamber but am currently debating on a manual safety vs no safety at all.  I’d practice either way but currently do not feel comfortable with no safety.

Regardless, there will be plenty of practice.  I don’t plan on going to the mainland again until next year.  I just don’t want to purchase a gun, spend money to set it up, and then sell it for a different setup at a loss as I’ve done multiple times in the past. 

drck1000

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber w/o manual safety?
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2017, 06:08:15 PM »
Try carrying your selected gun around (for trial purposes) unloaded a(no round in the chamber) and striker cocked. At the end of the day, check the trigger/striker. Assuming a proper holster, the striker should still be cocked.

For me, transitioning to a gun with thumb safety (like 1911 or even M&P with manual safety) is a no go. At least without a LOT of training.

tim808

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber w/o safety?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2017, 06:09:14 PM »
If I were lucky enough to ccw and considering a round in the chamber, I'd likely lean to a gun with a safety and was da/sa.   A lot of practice too.

I'm more worried about accidentally shooting myself or a bystander than saving a fraction of a second to flick the safety off.

oldfart

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2017, 06:12:16 PM »
Thanks all for your replies.  The title is a little misleading and has been changed.  I would plan on carrying with a round in the chamber but am currently debating on a manual safety vs no safety at all.  I’d practice either way but currently do not feel comfortable with no safety.

Regardless, there will be plenty of practice.  I don’t plan on going to the mainland again until next year.  I just don’t want to purchase a gun, spend money to set it up, and then sell it for a different setup at a loss as I’ve done multiple times in the past.
...
Do you shoot with any action pistol clubs here?
If not, you should. You'll get comfortable handling a loaded pistol very quickly.
What, Me Worry?

Influence

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber?
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2017, 06:15:16 PM »
...
Do you shoot with any action pistol clubs here?
If not, you should. You'll get comfortable handling a loaded pistol very quickly.

Planned on doing so but currently swamped at work and haven’t found the time to yet.  It’s on my list.

tim808

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber w/o manual safety?
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 06:16:09 PM »
Oldfart- do they draw or is the pistol in a box?

I assume the race guns have a really light trigger

zippz

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber w/o manual safety?
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2017, 06:18:23 PM »

zippz

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber w/o manual safety?
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2017, 06:26:19 PM »
Oldfart is right, if you feel uncomfortable carrying without a manual safety, then you shouldn't be carrying.  Train so you are 100% confident.

Other things to do is train so you never miss, movement techniques with a gun, train with a timer or under stress, scenarios, etc.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber w/o manual safety?
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2017, 06:36:56 PM »
If I had small kids around, I'd prefer a manual thumb safety, or a 1911 with Hammer, Thumb and Grip safeties.  Little hands can find their way to the things they shouldn't no matter how diligent you are.  Keeping the gun safe from firing for those who don't know how to work it makes sense.

For CCW in general, a striker fired pistol or hammerless revolver is my preference.  I've tried a DA/SA P226 in USPSA shooting, and a Glock or P320 is so much simpler.

Rule of thumb -- the simpler the gun, the fewer parts you have to fumble with before getting rounds on target.  It literally takes seconds to register the gun didn't go BANG, identify the failure, and correct it.  Two shots on target in 2 seconds is the objective.  Wasting even one of those seconds could be fatal.

If you ever do carry, I recommend you do dry-fire drills nightly.  Drawing safely should be so ingrained that you feel like you're writing with the wrong hand when you do something wrong.  Trigger finger and muzzle discipline should be pure instinct with enough practice.  Concentrate on correct form and safety.  Watch good quality videos and mimic what they do over and over.

Within a week of practice, you'll start forgetting you're even wearing a firearm. 

Oh, and I don't know why anyone would not carry one in the chamber.  Attacks happen without any warning.  Not only are you hoping for the time and mental acuity to rack the slide, but you're reducing your firepower by that round you didn't carry chambered.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Bushido

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber w/o manual safety?
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2017, 07:13:56 PM »
I wouldn't carry without one chambered nor with a gun with a manual safety. If you choose to, you'd better practice a ton as you should anyways. Your life may depend on it.

Like stated, carry at home cocked but unloaded whenever possible. Only use a quality holster that completely covers the trigger guard!!!! You'll likely have to try a few holsters, in different positions, before you find one you like. Not every body type can carry AIWB comfortably.

Get comfortable drawing from holster loaded. Get training and practice, practice, practice!!!

oldfart

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber w/o manual safety?
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2017, 07:23:53 PM »
Oldfart- do they draw or is the pistol in a box?

I assume the race guns have a really light trigger
...
Mostly from a holster.
Yes, race guns would be tuned for a light trigger pull.
But like automobile racing, there are different classes. So you can use a stock gun and be competitive against other people using stock guns. The actual rules got more complex over the years but the idea is to keep similar guns together.
What, Me Worry?

tim808

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber w/o manual safety?
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2017, 08:37:20 PM »
Oldfart - interesting...anyone ever mistakenly light one off while drawing?

Somewhat related - a friend who was a MP was doing live drills while in the guard or reserve and he mistakenly fired his ar into the ground while his team was clustered to enter a building. 

He had been up late the night before and didn't know they were going to do live drills.  It was hot and he was tired/fatigued and at one point forgot to keep his finger off the trigger

My takeaway from his incident was that if I were lucky enough to ccw is that I would practice when I was compromised (mornings when groggy and late when tired)

oldfart

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber w/o manual safety?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2017, 09:08:46 PM »
Oldfart - interesting...anyone ever mistakenly light one off while drawing?
....
Yes
It was a long time ago at a cowboy action shoot.
I don't know if there have been any recent incidents.
I inadvertently let one off while experimenting with different methods of presenting a DA/SA automatic.
What, Me Worry?

macsak

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2017, 09:37:20 PM »
Planned on doing so but currently swamped at work and haven’t found the time to yet.  It’s on my list.

you should attend as many various range days as you can until you are totally comfortable with muzzle and trigger finger discipline
then attend an action pistol match
don't concentrate on speed, only on safety at first
then keep on practicing and participating until you are comfortable with your draw and safety, then think about ccw

everyone has given you great tips here
and you are not wrong for questioning how you are going to carry
we are all different in how we view things, do not do anything you are not comfortable doing

drck1000

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber w/o manual safety?
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2017, 09:51:11 PM »
I’ve seen a numbers of ND/ADs when reloading and malfunction clearances in USPSA. Some firing into the ground just below the target, but not that many.

tim808

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber w/o manual safety?
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2017, 05:14:47 AM »
Drck1000
Reloading nd/ad - forgot finger on the trigger as they hit the slide release?  I could see that happening

Malfunction clearing nd/ad - how did that happen?  Most of mine were easy to clear - tap, rack, bang.   Finger on trigger while racking?

One thing I've seen in person is the shooter is usually tired. Not necessary nd/ad, but other things like casing at the table when range is cold
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 07:59:25 AM by tim808 »

2ahavvaii

Re: Irrational fear about carrying w/ one in the chamber w/o manual safety?
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2017, 08:38:50 AM »
unfortunately no cc here, but this is my worthless 0.02.   

Personally i'm more comfortable with da/sa no safety with proper trigger discipline than sa with safety, and especially sa no safety (all assuming round in chamber).  I think safeties should not be relied on as they can provide a false sense of security.  And from reviewing various CC encounter videos, that extra time you spent attempting to flip the safety or rack the slide can get you killed.  Even if its something you practice or compete in, in an actual situation where youre defending your and your family's life and the adrenaline is pumping and you have a split second to react, chances are much greater you'll fuck something up.  And that's not even counting being able to hit the assailant AND stop him once you do pull the trigger.

quick video -  notice how fast things happen?  Notice that in some of the situations, the guy only had 1 arm free or are being physically attacked, which may make both racking the slide and flipping the safety a bit more challenging to say the least (impossible may be a more accurate word).  And even if you do manage to rack the gun, notice in the video how some of the guns failed to fire probably because they short stroked and no round was actually chambered?

« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 08:57:24 AM by 2ahavvaii »