GOP Tax Bill (Read 106821 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2017, 04:15:09 PM »
Not so much. But then I don't have a massive fortune that depends on speculation. Notice Mark isn't saying weather Trump's policies are good or bad for the country, just for investment. It seems people have forgotten that there can be quite the inverse relationship between those two as disastrously proven back in 1929 and 1987.

Speaking of which, the ramp up in stock buybacks has already begun even before this thing gets passed.

https://theintercept.com/2017/12/19/tax-bill-corporate-cut-stock-buyback-republican/

Keep in mind the last several market crashes were almost always proceeded by tax giveaways to the ultra rich that were supposed to stimulate the economy but got invested in bubbles instead. This process has been tried and the results are sadly predictable.

I would post the analysts' comments here on why the current year long run-up in the markets is not a bubble, but it seems no matter what evidence I present, you are going to base your fears on 2 major corrections in the last century and your rejection of the premise that tax cuts across the board will inevitably also benefit "the wealthy" who pay 90% of the income taxes collected each year.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

robtmc

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2017, 04:19:53 PM »
Elizabeth Warren who is against the bill admitted she didn't even read it.
Maybe it is in cursive?

hvybarrels

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2017, 04:34:32 PM »
I would post the analysts' comments here on why the current year long run-up in the markets is not a bubble, but it seems no matter what evidence I present, you are going to base your fears on 2 major corrections in the last century and your rejection of the premise that tax cuts across the board will inevitably also benefit "the wealthy" who pay 90% of the income taxes collected each year.

If you look at the real economic indicators any real growth stopped back in 2007/2008. What we have is a broken an highly unstable system based on sleight of hand where financial manipulators are banking on the fact that we can't understand their complicated graft mechanisms. They got us where they want us because most people can't bring themselves to face the reality that we already have our big toe in another depression. You can hold your nose and sing Hail to The Chief, but sooner or later our stool is going to get kicked.
How much fire can a ceasefire cease if a ceasefire never ceased fire?

Inspector

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2017, 04:52:13 PM »
If you look at the real economic indicators any real growth stopped back in 2007/2008. What we have is a broken an highly unstable system based on sleight of hand where financial manipulators are banking on the fact that we can't understand their complicated graft mechanisms. They got us where they want us because most people can't bring themselves to face the reality that we already have our big toe in another depression. You can hold your nose and sing Hail to The Chief, but sooner or later our stool is going to get kicked.
I'm curious as to what the "real economic indicators" are? I want to see what you are seeing. LMK
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

drck1000

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2017, 05:13:27 PM »
Looked into the tax plan a bit. Tax code makes me  :crazy: anyways. This look into the new plans confirms why I became an engineer over business (finance, economics, etc).

Been super tempted at ventures into crypto currency with a buddy. At least we both get credit if I sign up. Will think of it as my Vegas allowance for the year since I didn’t make it there this year.  8)

hvybarrels

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2017, 06:08:28 PM »
I'm curious as to what the "real economic indicators" are? I want to see what you are seeing. LMK

I suggest taking a stroll down memory lane where Trump was making accusations against Obama about faking the numbers. Telling the truth was what won him the election after all. Now that he's in office, however, those questionable methods of calculation are perfectly acceptable.

As far as crypto goes even if you can find one that's possible to sell quickly there's no way to escape before the bottom drops out. Once it starts to slide the systems will crash and by the time they are "repaired" there will be no buyers and free falling prices. But if you "invest" in something that doesn't exist run by people you don't know and aren't even sure how it works, simply because everyone is smoking massive amounts of hopium and shooting the price skyward, then you deserve to lose your shirt.
How much fire can a ceasefire cease if a ceasefire never ceased fire?

drck1000

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2017, 06:17:34 PM »
I suggest taking a stroll down memory lane where Trump was making accusations against Obama about faking the numbers. Telling the truth was what won him the election after all. Now that he's in office, however, those questionable methods of calculation are perfectly acceptable.

As far as crypto goes even if you can find one that's possible to sell quickly there's no way to escape before the bottom drops out. Once it starts to slide the systems will crash and by the time they are "repaired" there will be no buyers and free falling prices. But if you "invest" in something that doesn't exist run by people you don't know and aren't even sure how it works, simply because everyone is smoking massive amounts of hopium and shooting the price skyward, then you deserve to lose your shirt.
Well, I lost a bunch of “fake money” when online poker went under. Did it mostly for entertainment value. But I appreciate your sage advice.

And not investing my shirt...

zippz

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2017, 07:20:24 PM »
I predict this tax bill will make condos more popular in the future and reduce the need for single family homes.  Prevent people from buying multiple homes and reduce the prices on them.

zippz

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2017, 07:47:03 PM »
Hawaii got some national representation.  At the beginning of the interview about rushing the bill, I thought hey you could dub in "obamacare" instead of "tax bill".

Sen. Schatz: Revote shows GOP tax bill rushed
http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/12/19/sen-brian-schatz-intv-gop-tax-bill-senate-vote-trump-sot-tsr.cnn

Flapp_Jackson

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2017, 12:24:42 AM »
Democrats complained there was not enough time to read the bill.

Democrats voted against the bill, with zero supporting it.

Why should we care if they read something they were never going to vote for no matter what?  At least with ACA, the Republicans were working on a bill in the House they could support, but the Senate version is the one that passed without any coordination with the Republicans. 

Remember -- not one single Democrat voted to lower your taxes.  Not one!   
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

macsak

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2017, 05:24:12 AM »
I suggest taking a stroll down memory lane where Trump was making accusations against Obama about faking the numbers. Telling the truth was what won him the election after all. Now that he's in office, however, those questionable methods of calculation are perfectly acceptable.

As far as crypto goes even if you can find one that's possible to sell quickly there's no way to escape before the bottom drops out. Once it starts to slide the systems will crash and by the time they are "repaired" there will be no buyers and free falling prices. But if you "invest" in something that doesn't exist run by people you don't know and aren't even sure how it works, simply because everyone is smoking massive amounts of hopium and shooting the price skyward, then you deserve to lose your shirt.

you didn't answer the question...

drck1000

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2017, 07:41:34 AM »
Democrats complained there was not enough time to read the bill.

Democrats voted against the bill, with zero supporting it.

Why should we care if they read something they were never going to vote for no matter what?  At least with ACA, the Republicans were working on a bill in the House they could support, but the Senate version is the one that passed without any coordination with the Republicans. 

Remember -- not one single Democrat voted to lower your taxes.  Not one!   
Among other things, that is what pisses me off.  There should be a law that Congress and the Senate get sanctioned for not doing their job.  Look at every odd year, we're talking continuing resolutions to keep things running.  In even years, they magically get things figured out so as to not jeopardize their popularity. 

davgdavg

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2017, 08:14:06 AM »
If you look at the real economic indicators any real growth stopped back in 2007/2008. What we have is a broken an highly unstable system based on sleight of hand where financial manipulators are banking on the fact that we can't understand their complicated graft mechanisms. They got us where they want us because most people can't bring themselves to face the reality that we already have our big toe in another depression. You can hold your nose and sing Hail to The Chief, but sooner or later our stool is going to get kicked.

Agree. The entire world's monetary system is just a big Ponzi scheme that people have tried to make so complicated that it seems too complicated to understand. The reality is that it is just as feeble and dumb as common sense would indicate.

punaperson

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2017, 09:38:13 AM »
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/20793/Who-Gets-a-Tax-Cut-Under-the-Tax-Cuts-and-Jobs-Act.aspx

To help provide a sense of how the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act would impact real taxpayers, we’ve run the taxes of eight example households. Each sample taxpayer has realistic characteristics to show how the individual income tax provisions of the bill would impact individuals and families across the income spectrum. Our results indicate a reduction in tax liability for every scenario we estimated, with some of the largest changes in after-tax income accruing to moderate-income families with children.

Individual income taxes are only one component of the proposed Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, and changes to business taxation will have a significant impact on wages and economic growth. Still, sometimes it’s helpful to drill down on one component of reform, and, as these sample taxpayers demonstrate, most taxpayers across the spectrum experience lower tax bills under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, albeit temporarily.

Inspector

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2017, 10:08:23 AM »
Try out this calculator:

http://taxplancalculator.com/
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

hvybarrels

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2017, 10:25:19 AM »
you didn't answer the question...

Was it too much to assume he has a better memory than a goldfish?
How much fire can a ceasefire cease if a ceasefire never ceased fire?

hvybarrels

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2017, 10:32:18 AM »
changes to business taxation will have a significant impact on wages and economic growth.

The changes are (happening right now) that companies buy back more of their own stock and invest in speculative bubbles that continue the cycle of robbing industry of productive capital. Who wants to invest in building cars that nobody's buying when you can make 3000% gains on the latest faith-based craze?

Meanwhile wages stagnate, people are laid off, and industry suffers because Henry Ford's employees can no longer afford the cars that they make.

Trickle down is a fiction. More over it's results are reliably disastrous.
How much fire can a ceasefire cease if a ceasefire never ceased fire?

Flapp_Jackson

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2017, 01:31:35 PM »
DAMN THAT FAKE TRICKLE-DOWN!!!!     :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Quote
JUST IN: AT&T announces it will "pay a special $1,000 bonus to more than 200,000
AT&T U.S. employees" due to tax reform passage and will also increase US capital
spending by $1 billion.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/tax-reform-reaction-att-is-giving-bonuses-to-200000-employees.html
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2017, 02:24:13 PM »

ren

Re: GOP Tax Bill
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2017, 03:00:24 PM »
Our State Dems should be helping us by lowering our taxes instead of pointing fingers about how this tax plan is going to negatively affect us. Since this caps out local taxes at 10K wouldn't it help us if the State lowered taxes too?
Deeds Not Words