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  4. OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
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OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban) (Read 115365 times)

punaperson

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2018, 04:22:13 PM »
What we may have to look forward to... article today from AWR Hawkins... though the proposed Hawaii law is much broader than bump stocks. I'm amused that even if one legally owns a (full auto true) NFA machine gun in MA you still have to turn in your bump stock. You know, because you could use it to hurt people... instead of using your machine gun. Yeah, that makes sense.

Massachusetts Orders Residents to Surrender Bump Stocks

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/19/intrusion-suspect-allegedly-assaults-homeowner-dies-shot/

Excerpts:

The state of Massachusetts is ordering residents to surrender any bump stocks in their possession, making clear that even keeping such an accessory at home is prohibited.

The bill defines a bump stock as “any device for a weapon that increases the rate of fire achievable with such weapon by using energy from the recoil of the weapon to generate a reciprocating action that facilitates repeated activation of the trigger.”

Guns.com obtained a letter being sent by the Massachusetts’ Executive Office of Public Safety and Security, which says, in part:

Effective 90 days from the enactment of the bill—February 1, 2018—the new law will also prohibit possession of bump stocks or trigger cranks, including possession in a private home. There are no exceptions to this prohibition for licensed firearm owners: an FID card, a License to Carry, or even a license to possess a machine gun will not authorize possession of a bump stock or a trigger crank.

Because the law does not allow for transfer or sale of these prohibited items, if you currently possess a bump stock or trigger crank within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts you should contact your local police department or the Massachusetts State Police to get details about how to transfer custody of the prohibited item to the police for destruction. Retention of such a prohibited item beyond the 90 day grace period will expose the owner to criminal prosecution.
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eyeeatingfish

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2018, 06:58:25 PM »
I say we offer support for this on the condition that we get some other right or protection back. Suppressors for example.
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z06psi

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2018, 09:54:12 PM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on January 19, 2018, 06:58:25 PM
I say we offer support for this on the condition that we get some other right or protection back. Suppressors for example.
Spoken like a true Progressive.

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Heavies

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2018, 09:54:40 PM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on January 19, 2018, 06:58:25 PM
I say we offer support for this on the condition that we get some other right or protection back. Suppressors for example.

The bill doesn't just go after "bump stocks"  it is overly vague that would include pretty much any type of modification they see fit to deem illegal.  It is not a good idea at all to support this!
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macsak

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2018, 09:59:02 PM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on January 19, 2018, 06:58:25 PM
I say we offer support for this on the condition that we get some other right or protection back. Suppressors for example.

what part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?
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Heavies

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2018, 10:11:32 PM »
Quote from: 6716J on January 19, 2018, 03:10:18 PM
I tried to submit testimony yesterday but it's not open yet online. I'm sure it will be a 30 minute window on a Wednesday between 5:23am and 5:53am Eastern Time.

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At this point in time, all you can do is contact your senators and representatives directly.  I have called and emailed.  Let them know you are watching over them closely and that you oppose.  This might give them pause, and maybe even keep this from even going into consideration. (long shot but worth the effort)
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zippz

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2018, 08:30:25 AM »
Should machine guns be legal and is it a constitutional right to have them?  If that question is answered with a yes then everything else, including the question on the legality of bump stocks, are irrelevant.
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ren

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2018, 08:55:44 AM »
Quote from: zippz on January 20, 2018, 08:30:25 AM
Should machine guns be legal and is it a constitutional right to have them?  If that question is answered with a yes then everything else, including the question on the legality of bump stocks, are irrelevant.

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Deeds Not Words

drck1000

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2018, 09:04:39 AM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on January 19, 2018, 06:58:25 PM
I say we offer support for this on the condition that we get some other right or protection back. Suppressors for example.
Personally, I really couldn’t care less about bump stock. On principle, no. With gun rights, one doesn’t offer to give anything as its apparent that everything is in jeopardy of losing anyways. If one could craft a bill that offers say guaranteed nationwide suppressor legal first and then give up jump stock, I could go for that. However, that’s not how it works, or at least how I see it. Again, based on principle, I see suppressors being deemed illegal an infringement.
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z06psi

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2018, 11:23:07 AM »
Quote from: drck1000 on January 20, 2018, 09:04:39 AM
Personally, I really couldn’t care less about bump stock. On principle, no. With gun rights, one doesn’t offer to give anything as its apparent that everything is in jeopardy of losing anyways. If one could craft a bill that offers say guaranteed nationwide suppressor legal first and then give up jump stock, I could go for that. However, that’s not how it works, or at least how I see it. Again, based on principle, I see suppressors being deemed illegal an infringement.
Ty6I'm and lyomc

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eyeeatingfish

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2018, 11:27:07 PM »
Quote from: z06psi on January 19, 2018, 09:54:12 PM
Spoken like a true Progressive.

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk

Yeah, because progressives really want legal suppressors.  :crazy:
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eyeeatingfish

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2018, 11:30:41 PM »
Quote from: Heavies on January 19, 2018, 09:54:40 PM
The bill doesn't just go after "bump stocks"  it is overly vague that would include pretty much any type of modification they see fit to deem illegal.  It is not a good idea at all to support this!

Thats why I suggest working with them on it, we add our input to fix the proposed law and they can get our support in return. We all know that us resisting it will probably have zero impact. So I say we get together on this. The alternative is they ban bump stocks anyway and we get nothing out of it.
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macsak

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2018, 11:49:07 PM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on January 20, 2018, 11:30:41 PM
So I say we get together on this.

you going to get together with your people at HPD to make this happen?
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zippz

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2018, 02:21:19 AM »
Quote from: ren on January 20, 2018, 08:55:44 AM
The legality of automatics is still a valid question, seems to be the black sheep.  I'm not sure if it's because people think automatics are a right but don't want to look like the bad guy, it's a losing case when debating gun rights, agree they should be banned which goes counter to promoting gun rights, or ignore it because it'll divide the gun community?  On one hand, the end result is automatics and bumpfire stocks have a similar rate of fire and can cause a lot of casualties in the right circumstances, ie firing into a big crowd.  I never used a bump stock, but I'd guess it's easier to use, more controllable, and more accurate than using a belt loop.  Bumpstocks seem more like a novelty item.

On the other hand I can see how this can set a precedent to banning other firearm accessories and types of firearms because they can cause harm in the wrong hands.  And terrorists can kill crowds of people in many other ways.

In the end I still put my faith into the 2nd amendment that it's there for the greater good even though evil things do happen.  People died in wars to protect these rights.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 02:36:26 AM by zippz »
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z06psi

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2018, 10:53:26 AM »
Quote from: eyeeatingfish on January 20, 2018, 11:27:07 PM
Yeah, because progressives really want legal suppressors.  :crazy:

Spoken like a true Progressive.
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Flapp_Jackson

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2018, 11:11:43 AM »
Quote from: z06psi on January 21, 2018, 10:53:26 AM
Spoken like a true Progressive.

Only a progressive would consider giving up one right to get another right back is a good thing. 

If law makers are possibly willing to "trade" suppressors for bump stocks," doesn't that scream, "maybe suppressors should not have been restricted/forbidden to start with?"

If you can get a right back by trading another for it, then violating the first right was neither right nor justified.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

K30l4

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2018, 03:04:11 PM »
I guess other legilators are attacking Rate increacing device too.






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London808

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2018, 09:38:52 PM »
The law is vague and ambiguous. They way it's written adding oil or grease to you firearm is illegal.
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"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

z06psi

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2018, 09:47:35 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on January 21, 2018, 11:11:43 AM
Only a progressive would consider giving up one right to get another right back is a good thing. 

If law makers are possibly willing to "trade" suppressors for bump stocks," doesn't that scream, "maybe suppressors should not have been restricted/forbidden to start with?"

If you can get a right back by trading another for it, then violating the first right was neither right nor justified.
Perxactly.

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punaperson

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #59 on: January 22, 2018, 06:45:04 AM »
Happy Monday morning everyone!

Just wanted to share an email I just sent to all the senate co-sponsors of SB2046, the "accelerate rate of fire modification" ban bill. At this point I refrained from even starting to get into which actual "modifications that accelerate the rate of fire" would all be deemed illegal (lubrication, polishing, springs, etc.), and how they would know that any such modifications had in fact accelerated the rate of fire...

Just as an aside, I don't expect an answer from any of them, much less an answer that justifies the bill.

Some Questions Re SB2046

Senator X,

As a sponsor of SB2046 could you please answer the following questions in a clear, unambiguous, unequivocal manner in order to clarify the background and necessity of your proposed bill?

1. How many total crimes have been committed in Hawaii, and in what years, involving firearms with any and all trigger modification devices?

2. How many total crimes have been committed in Hawaii, and in what years, involving firearms with a bump stock and/or bump fire devices?

3. How many total crimes have been committed in Hawaii, and in what years, involving firearms with trigger cranks?

4.  How many total crimes have been committed in Hawaii, and in what years, involving firearms with any part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment, or accessory that is designed or
functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semiautomatic firearm?

5. How many total crimes have been committed in Hawaii, and in what years, involving firearms with any altered part that accelerated the rate of fire of that firearm?

6. Of those total firearms listed above in question 5, please specify the exact modification or alteration of each firearm used in those crimes with an accelerated rate of fire due to said modification or alteration.

Thank you,
[punaperson]

RHOADS
senrhoads@capitol.hawaii.gov

CHANG
senchang@capitol.hawaii.gov

KEITH-AGARAN
senkeithagaran@capitol.hawaii.gov

NISHIHARA
sennishihara@capitol.hawaii.gov

Shimabukuro
senshimabukuro@capitol.hawaii.gov
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