OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban) (Read 115370 times)

z06psi

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #100 on: January 23, 2018, 08:49:43 PM »
And what is your realism? A small group of gun supporters sends angry emails to Espero and bump stocks get banned anyway? Seems your track is closer to the UK than mine.

No angry email sent to Espero.  Again, I am leaving the state because of its blatant over reach.

Lovely weather, most people are decent but the state government sucks.

I don't think I have ever seen a government raise rates on most fees and taxes. Then the next week declare a $800 million surplus.

eyeeatingfish

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #101 on: January 23, 2018, 09:05:09 PM »
No angry email sent to Espero.  Again, I am leaving the state because of its blatant over reach.

Lovely weather, most people are decent but the state government sucks.

I don't think I have ever seen a government raise rates on most fees and taxes. Then the next week declare a $800 million surplus.

Sorry to hear that. I haven't yet brought myself to pick up and leave but it is definitely something I have thought about.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #102 on: January 23, 2018, 09:11:38 PM »
Sorry to hear that. I haven't yet brought myself to pick up and leave but it is definitely something I have thought about.

Me, too .....

The part about you leaving.

 :rofl:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #103 on: January 23, 2018, 09:12:52 PM »
No angry email sent to Espero.  Again, I am leaving the state because of its blatant over reach.

Lovely weather, most people are decent but the state government sucks.

I don't think I have ever seen a government raise rates on most fees and taxes. Then the next week declare a $800 million surplus.

Most of my friends don't care about stuff like that. As long as it doesn't immediately affect their paycheck. Life is good when you turn a blind eye to the thief that walks in the middle of the night and steals a nickel here and there, maybe a dollar, people won't notice it for decades.
Deeds Not Words

z06psi

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #104 on: January 23, 2018, 09:28:22 PM »
The fucking state takes pictures of your car every year here.


This place is a nanny state and I want nothing to do with it.

z06psi

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #105 on: January 23, 2018, 09:36:14 PM »
You have to register your bicycles!

Perfect example.  I walk up to the Kalihi DMV counter because we were told to register our bicycles. The lady looks at me and says

"Do you have your receipts?". 

I said no, we bought these bicycles some years ago and did not need the receipts. 

She said "Well how did you register them?"

We didn't. Georgia doesn't require registration of bicycles nor pet, nor firearms.  She literally looked at me as if I just dropped out of a spaceship with an arm growing out the side of my head.


This is just one example of what I talk about.  Indoctrinated, weak people lead to people of power taking power from the individual.

z06psi

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #106 on: January 23, 2018, 09:37:50 PM »
Oh yeah.  How many car inspections will I go through in GA?  Zero.

How many pictures will be taken of my car and given to the state?  Zero.

z06psi

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #107 on: January 23, 2018, 09:38:54 PM »
How many times will I walk out of my back deck with my own personal gun range on my 66 acres? 

As much as I want to.

Heavies

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #108 on: January 24, 2018, 02:01:01 AM »
You have to register your bicycles!

Perfect example.  I walk up to the Kalihi DMV counter because we were told to register our bicycles. The lady looks at me and says

"Do you have your receipts?". 

I said no, we bought these bicycles some years ago and did not need the receipts. 

She said "Well how did you register them?"

We didn't. Georgia doesn't require registration of bicycles nor pet, nor firearms.  She literally looked at me as if I just dropped out of a spaceship with an arm growing out the side of my head.


This is just one example of what I talk about.  Indoctrinated, weak people lead to people of power taking power from the individual.
The term is "plantation mentality"

punaperson

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #109 on: January 24, 2018, 10:35:17 AM »
I think they would certainly disagree that they have broken any oaths. There are different schools of thought on exactly what the 2nd amendment means. If they are applying it as they think it means then they aren't breaking any oaths. It just so happens that their interpretation is wrong in my opinion, but that doesn't make them oath breakers.
Sure. They ALL "support the Second Amendment, but...". See this example from a Washington state legislator just last week when stating his support for a bumpstock ban bill: "Democratic Sen. Kevin Van de Wege, the sponsor of the bump stock bill, noted that he’s a lifetime member of the NRA and a defender of the 2nd Amendment [Of course he is!!], but said “this is something that shouldn’t be allowed.” [Of course it shouldn't!!]

From the Heller SCOTUS decision (written by Scalia):

At the time of the founding, as now, to “bear” meant to “carry.”...  When used with “arms,” however, the term has a meaning that refers to carrying for a particular purpose—confrontation. In Muscarello v. United States, 524 U. S. 125 (1998) , in the course of analyzing the meaning of “carries a firearm” in a federal criminal statute, Justice Ginsburg wrote that “(s)urely a most familiar meaning is, as the Constitution’s Second Amendment … indicate(s): ‘wear, bear, or carry … upon the person or in the clothing or in a pocket, for the purpose … of being armed and ready for offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict with another person.’ Id., at 143 (dissenting opinion) (quoting Black’s Law Dictionary 214 (6th ed. 1998)).
 
From the Hawaii state constitution:

Article I
RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS
Section 17.  A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. [Ren Const Con 1978 and election Nov 7, 1978]

From the United States Constitution:

Amendments to the Constitution
Bill of Rights

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Thus, by both the Hawaii state and Federal constitutions, which all Hawaii legislators and elected officials (governor, etc.), and some unelected/appointed officials (police chiefs, AG, etc.) have sworn an oath to uphold and defend both constitutions, neither the federal nor state (via McDonald extending Heller's protections against the states' infringement) governments may infringe on the pre-existing right to self-defense via  ‘wear[ing], bear[ing], or carry[ing] … upon the person or in the clothing or in a pocket, for the purpose … of being armed and ready for offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict with another person’, independent of location (inside or outside the home).

Since almost none of the Hawaii legislators have taken measures to oppose the existing Hawaii statutory scheme which de facto denies every single citizen of the state the right to lawfully ‘wear, bear, or carry … upon the person or in the clothing or in a pocket, for the purpose … of being armed and ready for offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict with another person', nor have they taken measures to overturn said de facto ban by introducing and supporting legislation to allow for the uninfringed exercise of said right, nor have they advocated for nor passed any resolutions to impeach the governor and AG nor demand that they remedy the situation, nor have they asked or demanded that county police chiefs change their de facto no issue policies, nor will they even answer the question "What does your sworn oath to uphold the right to  ‘wear, bear, or carry … upon the person or in the clothing or in a pocket, for the purpose … of being armed and ready for offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict with another person' mean, anyway?, I thus hold them as oathbreakers.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 10:40:33 AM by punaperson »

eyeeatingfish

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #110 on: January 27, 2018, 02:55:43 PM »
Me, too .....

The part about you leaving.

 :rofl:

I'm sorry, I don't speak troll.

eyeeatingfish

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #111 on: January 27, 2018, 02:59:34 PM »
Sure. They ALL "support the Second Amendment, but...". See this example from a Washington state legislator just last week when stating his support for a bumpstock ban bill: "Democratic Sen. Kevin Van de Wege, the sponsor of the bump stock bill, noted that he’s a lifetime member of the NRA and a defender of the 2nd Amendment [Of course he is!!], but said “this is something that shouldn’t be allowed.” [Of course it shouldn't!!]

From the Heller SCOTUS decision (written by Scalia):

At the time of the founding, as now, to “bear” meant to “carry.”...  When used with “arms,” however, the term has a meaning that refers to carrying for a particular purpose—confrontation. In Muscarello v. United States, 524 U. S. 125 (1998) , in the course of analyzing the meaning of “carries a firearm” in a federal criminal statute, Justice Ginsburg wrote that “(s)urely a most familiar meaning is, as the Constitution’s Second Amendment … indicate(s): ‘wear, bear, or carry … upon the person or in the clothing or in a pocket, for the purpose … of being armed and ready for offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict with another person.’ Id., at 143 (dissenting opinion) (quoting Black’s Law Dictionary 214 (6th ed. 1998)).
 
From the Hawaii state constitution:

Article I
RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS
Section 17.  A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. [Ren Const Con 1978 and election Nov 7, 1978]

From the United States Constitution:

Amendments to the Constitution
Bill of Rights

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Thus, by both the Hawaii state and Federal constitutions, which all Hawaii legislators and elected officials (governor, etc.), and some unelected/appointed officials (police chiefs, AG, etc.) have sworn an oath to uphold and defend both constitutions, neither the federal nor state (via McDonald extending Heller's protections against the states' infringement) governments may infringe on the pre-existing right to self-defense via  ‘wear[ing], bear[ing], or carry[ing] … upon the person or in the clothing or in a pocket, for the purpose … of being armed and ready for offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict with another person’, independent of location (inside or outside the home).

Since almost none of the Hawaii legislators have taken measures to oppose the existing Hawaii statutory scheme which de facto denies every single citizen of the state the right to lawfully ‘wear, bear, or carry … upon the person or in the clothing or in a pocket, for the purpose … of being armed and ready for offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict with another person', nor have they taken measures to overturn said de facto ban by introducing and supporting legislation to allow for the uninfringed exercise of said right, nor have they advocated for nor passed any resolutions to impeach the governor and AG nor demand that they remedy the situation, nor have they asked or demanded that county police chiefs change their de facto no issue policies, nor will they even answer the question "What does your sworn oath to uphold the right to  ‘wear, bear, or carry … upon the person or in the clothing or in a pocket, for the purpose … of being armed and ready for offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict with another person' mean, anyway?, I thus hold them as oathbreakers.

Fair enough, and might I add, a well articulated argument.

I fully agree with all of this in support of CCW.

zippz

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #112 on: January 29, 2018, 11:55:43 AM »
FYI, hearing notice just came up for this for Thursday.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/Bills/SB2046_.pdf

punaperson

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #113 on: January 29, 2018, 01:02:14 PM »
FYI, hearing notice just came up for this for Thursday.

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/Bills/SB2046_.pdf
Call or email by Wednesday at 1:35 PM for testimony to be included for sure (late testimony may be included).

The meeting agenda is here:
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2018/hearingnotices/HEARING_PSM_02-01-18_.HTM

There are some other bills of highly questionable merit that may also be of interest to 2A-protected rights types.

COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY, INTERGOVERNMENTAL, AND MILITARY AFFAIRS

Senator Clarence K. Nishihara, Chair
phone: 808-586-6970
fax: 808-586-6879
sennishihara@capitol.hawaii.gov

Senator Glenn Wakai, Vice Chair
phone: 808-586-8585
fax: 808-586-8588
senwakai@capitol.hawaii.gov

Members

Rosalyn H. Baker   
phone: 808-586-6070
fax: 808-586-6071
senbaker@capitol.hawaii.gov

Laura H. Thielen
phone: 808-587-8388
fax: 808-587-7240
senthielen@capitol.hawaii.gov

Les Ihara Jr.   
phone: 808-586-6250
fax: 808-586-6251
senihara@capitol.hawaii.gov

changemyoil66

Re: HAWAII "BUMP STOCK" BAN TO BE INTRODUCED 2018
« Reply #114 on: January 29, 2018, 01:14:35 PM »
Submitted for 2046.  Keep us posted as the others come up.

Jl808

Re: SB 2046 TESTIMONY AVAILABLE NOW
« Reply #115 on: January 29, 2018, 02:03:42 PM »
PSM has SB2046 scheduled for a hearing on 2/1/2018, as well as 5 other firearms related bills.  Online testimonies due before 1/31/2018 1:00pm.

Testify here -> https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2046

The list of other bills that PSM is having a hearing on is on this page -> https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=30081.msg267975#msg267975

I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

changemyoil66

Re: SB 2046 TESTIMONY AVAILABLE NOW
« Reply #116 on: January 29, 2018, 02:08:36 PM »
Thanks for putting them in red, it makes it easier.

Heavies

OPPOSE: SB 2046 (Trigger Mod / Bumpstock Ban)
« Reply #117 on: January 29, 2018, 02:35:28 PM »
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2046&year=2018

-Sign in, or sign up
-click link
-submit testimony OPPOSING SB2046

Thank you


Sample testimony...



Quote
As a law-abiding Second Amendment supporter in Hawaii, and voter, I urge you to please oppose Senate Bill 2046.
 
SB 2046 would make it a crime to own, manufacture, possess, sell, barter, trade, gift, transfer or acquire a firearm accessory or any other device, part or combination of parts that is designed to or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-automatic firearm.  In addition, SB 2046 would also criminalize installing, removing, or altering parts of a firearm with the intent of accelerating the rate of fire.

The broad and overreaching provisions of SB 2046 could criminalize firearm modifications such as competition triggers, muzzle brakes, and ergonomic changes that are commonly done by law-abiding gun owners to make their firearms more suitable for self-defense, competition, hunting, or even overcoming disability.

These restrictions will do nothing to curb violence or criminals from obtaining or using such devices, and only serve to automatically and arbitrarily make LAW ABIDING CITIZENS criminals overnight for no reason at all. 
 
Again, please consider opposing Senate Bill 2046.

Sincerely,
Heavies,  VOTER
91-0000  Street St
Ewa Beach, HI 96706-2716
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 10:50:25 AM by Jl808 »

macsak

Re: Submit testimony OPPOSING SB 2046
« Reply #118 on: January 29, 2018, 02:56:29 PM »
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=2046&year=2018

-Sign in, or sign up
-click link
-submit testimony OPPOSING SB2046

Thank you


Sample testimony...

nice job, heavies

aieahound

Re: Submit testimony OPPOSING SB 2046
« Reply #119 on: January 29, 2018, 02:57:08 PM »
Done.
Thanks for the sample Heavies.
 :shaka: