DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings (Read 56840 times)

ren

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #60 on: March 13, 2018, 09:45:11 AM »
I remember when schools had their own shooting range on campus. 
that was before the pussification of America started

Took the words out of my mouth
Deeds Not Words

rustyeleio

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #61 on: March 13, 2018, 09:50:13 AM »
Unbelievable...the level of hypocrisy is immeasurable.  Dang, if I had a kid in school,  I would make a sign that supported 2a.  He/she might get beat up by the teachers though....maybe not.

Kuleana

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2018, 10:43:29 AM »
Schools should turn this into a real life lesson.  If they were adults walking off their job for a demonstration they would get fired, suspended, or at the very least reprimanded.  I would get fired at my job.

The lesson can be in decision making.  You can demonstrate, but you'll be put on detention for a couple weekends or have to do community service or get a failing grade in the class they walked out of.

If the cause is one of the greatest importance to the individual or individuals, then so be it.

Let us not forget that Gandhi, himself, was an activist and advocate of using strikes and/or walkouts in the cause for Indian Independence.  Yes, he and millions of others were jailed numerous times for their actions, but collectively led to India's independence from British Imperialism.

If no one today is saying what he did and advocated was wrong and, hypothetically argue that he was exercising his rights of free speech, if India was an American Imperial possession, instead of Britain; it is amazing the amount of scorn directed at those who wish to utilize walkouts or protests today in the US.

punaperson

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2018, 11:00:11 AM »
... it is amazing the amount of scorn directed at those who wish to utilize walkouts or protests today in the US.
I don't believe anyone is questioning the right to free speech. Certainly the students have a right to express their opinions via any actions they choose, at least during the 17 hours a day they are not on the grounds of a public school. And wherever they act and whatever they do they are of course subject to the consequences of any laws or rules they chose to violate (as were Ghandi, King, etc.). I think some are questioning the apparent advocacy of the "walkout" by administrators and other staff that seems to belie a bias/prejudice/hypocrisy because they would not be so accommodating if the students were to stage an identical event having a "conservative" political theme (such as Second Amendment rights or "Pro Life", etc.). The bloviating of DOE administrators like Art Souza claiming that the events are "not political" only reinforces the evidence that the DOE is complicit the bias. I don't believe either Ghandi or King asked that the laws and rules be changed so that they could demonstrate and not face consequences, whereas some of these students, backed by administrators and other bureaucrats want to bend the existing rules, but likely just for this "approved" topic.

I myself once engaged in "civil disobedience" and I certainly didn't expect the university to waive their existing rules just because I thought I had a right to protest. Of course in my case the administrators were dumb as shit and out of touch with reality so they just thought I was some weirdo. A couple of years later people burned down the bank and occupied the administration buildings making my "blocking the road" look like kindergarten recess.

changemyoil66

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #64 on: March 13, 2018, 11:02:44 AM »
I like how the DOE is allowing the 1st amendment to be exercised, but not the 2nd by law abiding staff.

drck1000

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #65 on: March 13, 2018, 11:17:26 AM »
If the cause is one of the greatest importance to the individual or individuals, then so be it.

Let us not forget that Gandhi, himself, was an activist and advocate of using strikes and/or walkouts in the cause for Indian Independence.  Yes, he and millions of others were jailed numerous times for their actions, but collectively led to India's independence from British Imperialism.

If no one today is saying what he did and advocated was wrong and, hypothetically argue that he was exercising his rights of free speech, if India was an American Imperial possession, instead of Britain; it is amazing the amount of scorn directed at those who wish to utilize walkouts or protests today in the US.
No scorn at those who would want to utilize walkouts or protests.  Just questioning true motivations behind such actions. 

When I lived in Seattle, it was during the WTO riots.  Sure, there were many activists there who had legit concerns to protest, but there were hundreds that were there SIMPLY to cause chaos, wreck stuff, and generally act lawless without any real fear of consequences.  How do I know this?  I was on Broadway when a group was organizing folks to do a walk and they basically said they were going to downtown to start shit.  Basically a lot of what I see going on here. . .

Kuleana

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #66 on: March 13, 2018, 11:40:17 AM »
I think some are questioning the apparent advocacy of the "walkout" by administrators and other staff that seems to belie a bias/prejudice/hypocrisy because they would not be so accommodating if the students were to stage an identical event having a "conservative" political theme (such as Second Amendment rights or "Pro Life", etc.).

I am not blinded, but in total agreement of the potential bias you speak of.  However, it just seemed the prevailing attitude in this thread is one of either disallow the protest and/or demand for the punishment of those students who partake in the walkout; which to me goes against the spirit of free speech.



I don't believe either Ghandi or King asked that the laws and rules be changed so that they could demonstrate and not face consequences, whereas some of these students, backed by administrators and other bureaucrats want to bend the existing rules, but likely just for this "approved" topic.

The fact that there appears to be a sliding scale is nothing new in regards to gun rights in Hawaii.  However, focusing energy against the walkout itself, is just not the right way to go about it.  All it will do is foster the incorrect notion that Second Amendment supporters are one-track minded individuals who care only about threats to their guns and not the threat of gun violence in schools.

aieahound

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #67 on: March 13, 2018, 11:54:06 AM »
I remember when schools had their own shooting range on campus. 
that was before the pussification of America started

Pearl City still does. It's a nice one.
Moanalua sets up their tennis courts as a range during air riflery season.

Schools should turn this into a real life lesson.  If they were adults walking off their job for a demonstration they would get fired, suspended, or at the very least reprimanded.  I would get fired at my job.
Not if the Boss said it was cool and encouraged it as in this instance.

They're playing the shell game now.
"It's not a protest it's a moment of remembrance for the 17 who were slain"
So if your kid were to bring up the 2A it would be disrespectful...
But they can tout gun control out of respect for the deceased.
(Pretty tricky these Lefties)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 12:51:32 PM by aieahound »

stangzilla

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #68 on: March 13, 2018, 12:40:00 PM »
I remember when high schools shot .22LR at their shooting range.
there were no protests, no shootings, nobody even worried about it at all
the guns we had then are the same guns we have now, but what has changed? 
the guns did not change, society changed.
we've become a society of whiney cry babies, bc that's what gets the attention, not good sense and morals
reasoning and facts don't matter.  you just appeal to peoples' fears with crybaby kids, that's what makes it in the MSM

oldfart

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #69 on: March 13, 2018, 12:46:35 PM »
I remember when high schools shot .22LR at their shooting range.
there were no protests, no shootings, nobody even worried about it at all
the guns we had then are the same guns we have now, but what has changed? 
the guns did not change, society changed.
we've become a society of whiney cry babies, bc that's what gets the attention, not good sense and morals
reasoning and facts don't matter.  you just appeal to peoples' fears with crybaby kids, that's what makes it in the MSM
...
Yep
What, Me Worry?

drck1000

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #70 on: March 13, 2018, 12:50:36 PM »
Pearl City still does. It's a nice one.
Moanalua sets up their tennis courts as a range during air riflery season.
Not if the Boss said it was cool and encouraged it as in this instance.

They're playing the shell game now.
"It's not a protest it's a moment of remembrance for the 17 who were slain"
So if you're kid were to bring up the 2A it would be disrespectful...
But they can tout gun control out of respect for the deceased.
(Pretty tricky these Lefties)
PCHS has a rifle team? Never knew that. I recall McKinley and Roosevelt having rifle teams when I was in HS. I think Leilleihua’s team comes out to the SSF.

aieahound

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #71 on: March 13, 2018, 01:11:06 PM »
Oh yeah.
They're one of the top teams.
There's 18 schools in the OIA (public on Oahu) with air riflery teams.

https://www.oiasports.com/assets/content/sports/air_riflery/Air-Riflery-Standings-17-18-as-of-9232017.pdf?1506388746

Pearl City's range is a mini-kokohead (but in better shape) covered 10 meter range.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 01:20:27 PM by aieahound »

drck1000

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2018, 01:16:06 PM »
Oh yeah.
They're one of the top teams.
There's 18 schools in the OIA (public on Oahu) with air riflery teams.

https://www.oiasports.com/assets/content/sports/air_riflery/Air-Riflery-Standings-17-18-as-of-9232017.pdf?1506388746

Pearl City's range is a mini-kokohead (but in better shape) covered 10 meter range.
I know they have a nice concert hall and another newer building back there.

k.s.chong

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #73 on: March 13, 2018, 01:16:49 PM »
Internal Memorandum from gov. ige about the walkout also internal memo from the superintendent.

dont get me wrong, i support human rights and i agree every human has rights regardless of age, size, color, beliefs or if you identify as a potato...

my main concern like every1 stated, is that if state school systems r enabling these protests during school hours it may only be the stepping stone to further disruptions in education.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

changemyoil66

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #74 on: March 13, 2018, 01:20:18 PM »
Can someone educate me on the bill of rights?  As in do you have to be 18 to exercise them?  Have to be 18 to vote, that's in there as well as to own a gun.  IDk what other amendments you have to be 18 to exercise?

punaperson

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #75 on: March 13, 2018, 01:32:09 PM »
Can someone educate me on the bill of rights?  As in do you have to be 18 to exercise them?  Have to be 18 to vote, that's in there as well as to own a gun.  IDk what other amendments you have to be 18 to exercise?
My long ago and faraway experience in high school was that the Los Angeles Unified School District ruled that students do not have any First Amendment rights in the school setting, and that ruling was upheld in court. I have no idea what may have happened since then re students' rights, but it (and several other experiences of administrators wielding arbitrary and capricious power) certainly left me extremely skeptical about how concerned the teachers/administration were for our "education" and wellbeing.

macsak

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #76 on: March 13, 2018, 01:36:09 PM »
Internal Memorandum from gov. ige about the walkout also internal memo from the superintendent.

dont get me wrong, i support human rights and i agree every human has rights regardless of age, size, color, beliefs or if you identify as a potato...

my main concern like every1 stated, is that if state school systems r enabling these protests during school hours it may only be the stepping stone to further disruptions in education.

iggy says he's going to PCH
in direct conflict with the DOE superintendent:

I want to emphasize that this is not a community event, and we want to keep our campuses safe for studentto-student interaction. Therefore, staff who want to stand in solidarity with students can participate in the  17-minute walkout at their own buildings as coordinated by their supervisor, but are not to enter school campuses unless they work on that campus. This is a student exercise.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #77 on: March 13, 2018, 01:39:12 PM »
Can someone educate me on the bill of rights?  As in do you have to be 18 to exercise them?  Have to be 18 to vote, that's in there as well as to own a gun.  IDk what other amendments you have to be 18 to exercise?

Voting age is set by the states.  Election laws are created at the state level.  Federal votes are cast by electors, senators and representatives.  Contrary to popular misunderstanding, there is no such thing as a "national election."  Hence, there's no national age limit for voting.

States are allowed to set limits on the exercise of rights as long as they don't conflict with federal law or the US Constitution.

BTW, when discussing limits on the first amendment, the example "You can't yell 'FIRE!' in a crowded theater," always comes up.  That's not true.  In fact, the court case in which this analogy or example was made famous was overturned almost half a century ago.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-time-to-stop-using-the-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

rustyeleio

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2018, 01:44:53 PM »
Quote from: punaperson on Today at 11:00:11 AM
I think some are questioning the apparent advocacy of the "walkout" by administrators and other staff that seems to belie a bias/prejudice/hypocrisy because they would not be so accommodating if the students were to stage an identical event having a "conservative" political theme (such as Second Amendment rights or "Pro Life", etc.).

I am not blinded, but in total agreement of the potential bias you speak of.  However, it just seemed the prevailing attitude in this thread is one of either disallow the protest and/or demand for the punishment of those students who partake in the walkout; which to me goes against the spirit of free speech.



I don't believe either Ghandi or King asked that the laws and rules be changed so that they could demonstrate and not face consequences, whereas some of these students, backed by administrators and other bureaucrats want to bend the existing rules, but likely just for this "approved" topic.

The fact that there appears to be a sliding scale is nothing new in regards to gun rights in Hawaii.  However, focusing energy against the walkout itself, is just not the right way to go about it.  All it will do is foster the incorrect notion that Second Amendment supporters are one-track minded individuals who care only about threats to their guns and not the threat of gun violence in schools.

Sorry if this is late to the discussion, I type...very...slowly.

Very respectfully disagree with you Kuleana, you make a good argument.  Really had to think about this one.

As was stated before,  the right to free speech is guaranteed and all of us agree, support and practice that daily.  What is annoying is that the DOE is selectively endorsing an anti-2a speech (and also endorsing incorrect information) by removing all reasonable consequences.  I mean consequences which could be considered a punishment but I think of them to be slightly different.  If you want to skip class to exercise free speech, then I don't want you thrown in jail, expelled or tazed, but I expect the class to continue as normal.  The student will miss attendance and be put in detention, miss the content of today's lecture and possibly receive a poor grade on that subject if they later fail the quiz/test.  When the DOE stops classes and helps to organize the walk out, they are endorsing the political view and removing the reasonable consequences.  The students are kids, so we should all try to remember how we thought back then...super impulsive and always up for a "field trip".  We would hope, however, that the adults in charge would hold themselves to a higher standard and teach the kids some responsibility for their actions.  Furthermore, by proposing that there be no consequences for exercising free speech in school, we could effectively end education as we know it.  Everyday, many students would feel the need to "exercise" that right without fear of any consequences.  "I want to go protest such and such, I am leaving.  Mr/Mrs. Teacher, you must now stop class for x minutes so I can speak freely." Next student does the same etc...class never resumes.

We are indeed concerned about ALL violence in schools (guns, knives, clubs, fists, cyber, everything) , not ONLY concerned with gun violence nor do I think that guns are a root cause of violence in schools (or anywhere for that matter).  Should we feel better if the 17 dead were killed by a knife? a hammer?  a vehicle? a bomb? a fire?  If students were murdered with another tool, would we sit back and say "well, at least he/she didn't use a gun."  The concern is not because they are blaming guns...it is because they are incorrectly/unfairly blaming guns.  If a gun were capable of getting up and shooting someone on its own (sarcasm, yes) then I would support banning guns.  There was a cartoon that I found silly but still makes a good point. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/31/7b/9c/317b9c84e4c9122713c0ba6aa72c86f9.jpg

changemyoil66

Re: DOE encouraging students to walk out to protest school shootings
« Reply #79 on: March 13, 2018, 01:50:11 PM »
I had a friend who was taken into the principals office and his backpack searched.  He asked the principal, "doesn't he need a warrant?". My friends a smart ass. The principal replied, "once you're on school campus,you have no rights."

Not sure if that was true or not, google wasn't well known back then.

The reason why he was brought in, 1 student claimed he stole something from his home (over the past weekend and not then and there).  I guess they thought he would bring the item to school.  Nothing was found in his backpack but books and papers.  So it ended there.

*IDK if my friend did steal or not, I never asked.  He just told me why he was late to class.