Firearms Training - Sharing Experience (Read 26331 times)

raudi

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #200 on: July 02, 2020, 08:39:20 AM »
Attended in a rifle/carbine class this past weekend and another GREAT time shooting.  Another great class, great weather, and a couple of shooting friends that I've shot with quite a bit in other groups were able to join in, so that was awesome!  Always good when good people invest the time into getting quality training. 

This was my first time back shooting a carbine since mid-March.  A little rusty, but not nearly as rusty as I was with the handgun, which is to be expected.  Long guns are way more forgiving on the perishable nature of shooting skills than handguns.  This was a foundation level carbine class with this group and included a number of people new to shooting.  Many had shot in the previous handgun classes or had their friends or spouse out for the first time, so it was a good mix of people.  Firearms safety is essential and always highly stressed with this group and it showed over the course of the day. 

Highlights/Notes:

1) Shot my "trusted" AR with EoTech in this class.  I've been wanting to shoot other uppers with different optics, but after the layoff, I decided to go with the upper with the EoTech.  In a previous rifle course, I shot my LPVO.  I thought about shooting that one as well, but figured best to stick to the basics for this one.  I've gotten very used to the EoTech reticle over the years, but I also want to spend more time with the simple red dot optic like Aimpoints.  I have a couple of ARs with the "simple" Aimpoints, so I should spend more time shooting those as well in a class/training environment.

2) No gear changes, tweaks, or failures this class.  There were a couple of shooters that had some kinks with their gear and it seemed like a couple were new rifles.  Totally understandable that they didn't have time to have shot the new rifles during the shutdown, but a reminder even for me that I need time to try/test things out when trying new stuff. 

3) Was actually "good" to see folks finding out that their setup had issues during the class and trying different arrangements to find what works, or at least what worked better.  I'm a big advocate of needing to shoot in class/training to iron stuff like that out.  I've learned lessons the hard way showing up to a class with a new setup and finding I didn't like it.  Part of the learning.  Always learning.  As mentioned previously, also good to see what other shooters have and able to pick their brains on it.  Also for newer shooters to see what's out there and get gear recommendations, especially what gear types or companies to avoid (because they sell crap). 

4) The live fire started out with stuff that worked on fundamentals with a logical progression.  The drills eventually transitioned to include opportunity to really test stuff like recoil management.  One of the things that the instructors in this group typically comment on for me is to push to find the point where things start to "mess up" my target.  There were times that I really thought I was pushing it and the target was still decent.  Need to focus more on pushing things and progress. 

5) I ended up being in the same relay as my two friends that were in this class for the first time.  That was an awesome experience on many levels, particularly for the friendly competition aspect.  It also allowed time in between relays to ask some things while the instructors were on the line with the other relay. 

6) Total round count wasn't that high, but if really felt like there was "quality" in the rounds shot.  The day ended with the feeling that I had shot more than I did.  I mean yeah, I would have loved to have continued to have kept shooting given the layoff, but probably a good thing that we stopped where we did because I was pretty sore the next day. 

Again, always fun day on the range with this group.  Little better "in-shape" and hopefully I'll be able to shoot more consistently ahead of some other classes planned for later this summer.  I've definitely got the shooting bug back.  Thankfully I'm mostly ok on the ammo stores right now, but I'll probably need to start keeping an eye on ammo deals.


who offers this class?

changemyoil66

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #201 on: July 27, 2020, 09:43:43 AM »
Took a HDF carbine skill builder this weekend.

1) 1st drill was starting cold and with your rifle in your bag/case.  Run 15 yards, uncase and load and shoot circle the size of a pan pizza at 7 yards in 20 seconds.  This was an interesting drill because some people transport their rifles in a small bag, so they have to separate the upper from the lower. Which means they had to assemble it before shooting.  They ran out of time. 

For us, I had 2 rifles in 1 hardcase (Mrs. CMO and I), and had the red dot cover on.  Mrs. CMO doesn't pack and unpack so she didn't know on the case there are 2 more clips on the side.  She was able to load and make ready, but ran out of time.

For me, I was able to get 9 shots off, but was point and shooting because I left my optic cover on because I didn't know how much time I had.  Got 2 of the 9 hits in the circle, the other shots were on the 8x11 paper.  Next time I would remove the optic cover.  Also both butt stocks were folded in the the max so they fit into the case.  Not a big deal, but noticeable.

2) Did more shooting at 7 yards so POA/POI is important to know.  From both high and low ready.  I noticed im more accurate with high ready.

3) For the 1st time I shot with my rifle buttstock tucked under my armpit.  Target was only 2 yards away.  Drill was 4 shots in the pan pizza circle, then shoulder and 1 shot in a box smaller than an index card.  Grouping for armpit shots were all touching.  But spread out like the size of a jalapino.  This was more fun than it would seem.  Important to squeeze the arm down tight on the butt stock so you maintain recoil control.

drck1000

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #202 on: July 27, 2020, 12:53:24 PM »
Took a HDF carbine skill builder this weekend.

1) 1st drill was starting cold and with your rifle in your bag/case.  Run 15 yards, uncase and load and shoot circle the size of a pan pizza at 7 yards in 20 seconds.  This was an interesting drill because some people transport their rifles in a small bag, so they have to separate the upper from the lower. Which means they had to assemble it before shooting.  They ran out of time. 

For us, I had 2 rifles in 1 hardcase (Mrs. CMO and I), and had the red dot cover on.  Mrs. CMO doesn't pack and unpack so she didn't know on the case there are 2 more clips on the side.  She was able to load and make ready, but ran out of time.

For me, I was able to get 9 shots off, but was point and shooting because I left my optic cover on because I didn't know how much time I had.  Got 2 of the 9 hits in the circle, the other shots were on the 8x11 paper.  Next time I would remove the optic cover.  Also both butt stocks were folded in the the max so they fit into the case.  Not a big deal, but noticeable.

2) Did more shooting at 7 yards so POA/POI is important to know.  From both high and low ready.  I noticed im more accurate with high ready.

3) For the 1st time I shot with my rifle buttstock tucked under my armpit.  Target was only 2 yards away.  Drill was 4 shots in the pan pizza circle, then shoulder and 1 shot in a box smaller than an index card.  Grouping for armpit shots were all touching.  But spread out like the size of a jalapino.  This was more fun than it would seem.  Important to squeeze the arm down tight on the butt stock so you maintain recoil control.
Thank you for sharing! 

1) That's an interesting "thing to make you go hmm" scenario.  One great thing about something like that drill is that I'm sure it introduced a good amount of stress.  IMO experiencing that is important in context of defensive situations.  Just a side note, it's pretty eye opening what kind of shoot placement can be achieved by "other than sights".  Not advocating for that, but interesting "what if".  Since we were little, we learn to point at something of interest.  I used to shoot with a guy that at 65+, he had a hard time focusing on the front sight of his AR.  He was actually able to get pretty decent hits from essentially point shooting lead by his support hand.  Again, I'm not advocating for shooting in that manner, but it was interesting to see. 

2) Yup, offsets due to height over bore for carbines is key for defensive shooting.  I do drills or exercises on that aspect of carbine shooting quite often.  As for being more accurate from low ready or high ready, did you mean you feel like you're able to acquire the sights faster?  The ready position shouldn't affect your accuracy, as long as you're solid getting into shooting frame/position. 

3) Think you've been watching Desperado too many times.   :P

Sounds like a fun day on the range.  Great that you could share it with Mrs. CMO.  Is she all healed up now? 

changemyoil66

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #203 on: July 27, 2020, 12:58:44 PM »
Thank you for sharing! 

1) That's an interesting "thing to make you go hmm" scenario.  One great thing about something like that drill is that I'm sure it introduced a good amount of stress.  IMO experiencing that is important in context of defensive situations.  Just a side note, it's pretty eye opening what kind of shoot placement can be achieved by "other than sights".  Not advocating for that, but interesting "what if".  Since we were little, we learn to point at something of interest.  I used to shoot with a guy that at 65+, he had a hard time focusing on the front sight of his AR.  He was actually able to get pretty decent hits from essentially point shooting lead by his support hand.  Again, I'm not advocating for shooting in that manner, but it was interesting to see. 

2) Yup, offsets due to height over bore for carbines is key for defensive shooting.  I do drills or exercises on that aspect of carbine shooting quite often.  As for being more accurate from low ready or high ready, did you mean you feel like you're able to acquire the sights faster?  The ready position shouldn't affect your accuracy, as long as you're solid getting into shooting frame/position. 

3) Think you've been watching Desperado too many times.   :P

Sounds like a fun day on the range.  Great that you could share it with Mrs. CMO.  Is she all healed up now?

Her foot is a little better.  But still has the plantar faciutis. Every skill builder, she says she wont spring.  But then when the last exercise happens, her competitiveness kicks in and she's sprinting. 

drck1000

Re: Firearms Training - Sharing Experience
« Reply #204 on: July 27, 2020, 05:28:12 PM »
Over the past two weeks, attended a rifle/carbine 2 class and a rifle & pistol skill builder.  All great training.  Both classes got rained on here and there, which has pretty much become a tradition with this group and location.  My work has been crazy the past few weeks, so it was good to squeeze training days in there and serve as my days of meditation and get away from work.  Much needed recoil therapy. 

Highlights/Notes:

1) Both days included starting off shooting standards.  Always good to see how your skills are progressing, or sometimes digressing with the perishable nature of these skills.  After layoffs from shooting, I tend to approach the standards courses of fire "safely", but have been encouraged to push things more, which I was able to do.  In the rifle course a few weeks back, I pushed things a bit and ended up missing my goal for the standards by just a little due to penalty for a miss.  Was still pretty happy overall after not having shot carbine for a while.  This past weekend was a chance at redemption and I was able to make my goal for the standard by shooting it clean and almost 0.5 sec under.  It was close though as I had one hit that was on the line. 

2) Shooting pistol and rifle together in similar courses of fire shows me how much more effort I need to concentrate on my pistol shooting.  I enjoy shooting both pistol and carbine, but I enjoy shooting carbine a LOT more.  That said, I always understood that things are generally easier with a carbine in many regards, but I was admittedly humbled in that I wasn't nearly the pistol shooter that I thought I was.  Good to be humbled at times and stay hungry for improvement.  Also got some sage advice after from a trusted friend. 

3) No gear changes, tweaks, or failures during this class.  Though I did shoot the latter part of the day with a PC.  I rarely get to shoot with the PC, so it's always a good experience.  There were a few others that shot with their PC as well and some had some gear issues to iron out, buy mostly minor things like placement of certain elements.  I was able to confirm that there wasn't a conflict with my usual setup with the addition of the PC. 

4) Always good to be shooting under the keen eye of knowledgeable instructors.  In this past weekend's course, a few buddies that I shoot with often in another group was able to attend this class.  While it's always good to shoot with buddies, I found that observing them (some of them were in a different relay) provided a whole different perspective on the course.  To be able to see what others were doing and listen to the tips that they got.  That was always an aspect of attending shooting courses I enjoyed, but having shooting buddies there elevated that experience. 

5) Friendly competition is always a good thing.  I was sharing a target with another shooter that attends a lot of courses with this group.  He was in the first relay when we were shooting the standards.  Of course, I peeked over at his target and noticed his times.  I noticed he was shooting very well and times were very good.  That pushed me even harder.  Later in the day, one of the instructors lined up next to me in a drill and threw down a "let's go" challenge.  I was totally pumped and up for it.  It was a relatively simple course of fire and one that I had done flawlessly maybe just a minute before.  Well, with the added pressure of the challenge, I had a slight fumble and fell behind and lost.  I always look for that sort of challenge and see how I respond.  I didn't respond well that day, but looking forward to improving in that aspect and need that sort of challenge to push myself.

6) Got a lot of tips on how to clean up my own shooting.  One is being confident in being able to execute a skill with good accuracy and time and not worry about making up time.  I noticed that tendency in shot transitions, where noticed my hits getting sloppy.  Another example is concentrating on the reload, which is say step 3, and that causing a loss of focus on step 2, due to me desire or thought that I needed to make up time on step 3.  Need to train step 3 and trust that I can complete the skill as well as focus on step 2.  A lot of shooting is mental, and that always needs work. 

7) There were times when the pace of shooting with the carbine got the gun very hot.  I haven't been wearing gloves for classes lately, though I have no problem with using them.  A few months back, I switched out the rail covers out to one that was rated as being very heat resistant and not passing heat (it has no metal parts).  While the gun got really hot to the touch, it was still comfortable without gloves.  Other shooters needed gloves without the scales. 

8) Have to figure out a way and never give up.  Personally, to remember the defensive context and mindset of this type of training.  For me, that comes with adjusting to some physical limitations.  Not major, but some old injuries have caught up to me and I just need to find a way to adjust and work through them.  Similar can be said for many other shooters, but important thing is keeping aware of the mindset of this type of training.  Yeah, some folks may be in it for improving shot splits for competition, which I would say also interests me, but I am in this type of training primarily for context of defending myself and loved ones. 

9) Quality of training and vetting your trainers is important.  We're spending a lot of money as well as dedicating a lot of time.  I truly think of it as an investment and am lucky to attend shooting classes with this group.  I am also VERY happy that many of my shooting buddies are now attending these classes with me and I've already seen improvement in their shooting after a couple of classes.  I really like the style and progression of these instructors and am always looking forward to more.

10) One of the instructors asked me where I want to get to as a shooter.  I have said many times with them and in this thread that I always enjoy working fundamentals, and with more regular range days, I hope to continue to improve that.  But where I really want to get to is an opportunity to shoot side-by-side with these instructors and I am the level where they feel that they have to be on their A-game.  Of course, I realize I am not there yet, but that's where I want to be.  I am looking forward to more "let's go" challenges with these instructors.  I also appreciate that they enjoy the challenge as well and not only humor me, but have fun with the challenge as well. 

11) Correcting old bad habits is a lot harder than training new habits.  That's something I mentioned many times before in this thread, and saw that a lot this weekend.  While I surely would like to be shooting more regularly, maybe the break due to COVID was a good thing as it gave me time to reset.  Yeah, I still see old bad habits creeping back in here and there, but less and less.

Once again, always a fun day on the range with this group.  I am also seeing more and more friends of mine express interest in becoming firearms owners for a variety of reasons.  The difficulties of becoming a first time firearms owner in Hawaii aside, I just hope they invest in quality training once they make the decision to become responsible firearm owners.