You bring nothing to the party but trolling so far.

right
you have 39.6% of my post count, yet 20.5% of my total likes
sounds like I bring nothing to the party...

right
you have 39.6% of my post count, yet 20.5% of my total likes
sounds like I bring nothing to the party...

That makes you more popular here but it doesn't make you right.

Notice though that I said you bring nothing to the party but trolling SO FAR.
I am waiting and hoping that you will actually make a comment with some substance on this thread.

That makes you more popular here but it doesn't make you right.

Notice though that I said you bring nothing to the party but trolling SO FAR.
I am waiting and hoping that you will actually make a comment with some substance on this thread.

sorry, I wasn't the mastur debator you were in high school, so I cannot make valuable commentary like you can

That makes you more popular here but it doesn't make you right.

Notice though that I said you bring nothing to the party but trolling SO FAR.
I am waiting and hoping that you will actually make a comment with some substance on this thread.

Pissing off the moderator is always a smart move ....

 

Just saw this news story. In Trump's quest to negotiate better trade deals the European Union offered to eliminate all tarriffs on cars of the US did the same. Trump rejected the offer saying it wasn't good enough because Europeans preferred European cars.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/08/30/trump-rejects-eu-offer-to-eliminate-auto-tariffs.html

When I first learned of the criticisms of NAFTA I discovered one of the biggest objections from conservatives is that it wasn't truly free trade. It still had protectionism with all sorts of tarriffs.

So now we manage to get a proposal that would be truly equal, no tarriffs on either side and Trump is rejecting it? He wants something better for us because of customer preferences? That sounds like protectionism, am I missing something?

I read a Bloomberg report that said that the negotiations with the automobiles is being put off until a report is generated for Trump so he can make a deal that makes sense for us. The rest of the trade agreement is still on.

Just having no tariffs on each side is not always advantageous for us. Since BMW et al build cars here and export them to Europe, we only benefit as far as labor is concerned. All the profits made on the sales of these cars are not taxed as the money never makes it to our shores. As compared to Ford and GM that build cars for Europe, in Europe and the profits stay in Europe and therefore are taxed by Europe. Due to this, fair trade may include tariffs and/or other concessions on the part of the Europeans. If we dropped all tariffs on cars on both sides, Europe would have a huge advantage in the car trade since the only cars we export to Europe are European cars.

As far as I am concerned Trump is a smart cookie as he realizes the true differences in trade between countries. It is complicated and requires a sharp mind. It is obvious that Trump knows this and will negotiate the deal best for us.

I am going to answer another one of your posts that will continue this subject.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-30/trump-says-eu-offer-for-no-auto-tariffs-is-not-good-enough

I understand the idea but it is protectionism and Trump is trying to get an unrealistic deal. Tarrifs aren't meant to control for customer preferences but to protect companies against other groups that can make the products cheaper.

 If we want to compete with European car companies in Europe we need to make the cars they want, not suggest that Europe give us a special deal that doesn't benefit them just so our cars can sell more.

It's almost a form of subsidizing industry. I don't know if Trump hates free trade but the rejection of this proposal doesn't seem like he likes it either.

And by the way Trump didn't really go into much detail, so what do you want to do the news to do, speculate? They are reporting what he said. If they left something significant that he said out then feel free to point it out. But I did check multiple articles, it's not like Trump always make sense when he's talking or even remains consistent for that matter. Agree with his decision or not, the bottom line is that he was rejecting true free trade on that particular part.

Tariffs are not necessarily protectionism. They can be used to make one type of trade more even when circumstances dictate a very onedsided trade advantage such as the one the Europeans have with us. Remember my previous post explaining the differences between European car makers making cars here and exporting them to Europe. Thereby the profit from the sales of these cars remains in Europe so we do not benefit from collecting the taxes on those sales. And remember I said that Ford and GM make cars in Europe and the profit from the sales of those cars stays in Europe. So Europe gains a huge tax advantage over us in regards to car sales. See how complicated this is?

I don’t know where you get the idea that American car companies do not make cars that Europeans do not want to buy? We do. And have for many decades. As a matter of fact Ford was really huge in Europe at one time back in the day. Since the Europeans DO NOT buy American cars made in America we are at a disadvantage in trade between us. However, this does not mean that Europeans do not buy American cars. They buy American cars made in Europe. Just so you know that by brand Ford of Europe is #3 selling over 1M cars last year and Opel/Vauxhall (GM) is in the #4 spot with just under a 1M cars sold in Europe last year. That’s a lot of cars considering you didn’t think we made cars that Europeans don’t want to buy.

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2017-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-manufacturers-and-brands/

Free and fair trade is a great concept but the one thing about Trump is that he won’t allow us to be taken advantage of. If there is anyone who ever doubted Trump and his ability to understand and negotiate such complicated deals only for the best of America then it is due solely due to their blind hatred. Trump is doing something no other president has done. And that is to not sell our economy to the highest bidder for his own gain. JMHO

Im not familiar at all with tarrifs, nor will i spend more time researching it. I will trust Trump and the plan.  So far his intentions are for the american people.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Just to add to my long winded posts.

There other things that can be negotiated while keeping tariffs at zero on each side of the trade equation. Lot’s of concessions can be agreed upon. Similar in effect of the deal with Mexico where they agreed to pay their auto workers a minimum of $16/hour in order to make things a little more equal on both sides of the trade equation. While I am no expert and do not know what other concessions can be agreed upon, I am sure what ever our administration comes up with will be good for us.

Just to add to my long winded posts.

There other things that can be negotiated while keeping tariffs at zero on each side of the trade equation. Lot’s of concessions can be agreed upon. Similar in effect of the deal with Mexico where they agreed to pay their auto workers a minimum of $16/hour in order to make things a little more equal on both sides of the trade equation. While I am no expert and do not know what other concessions can be agreed upon, I am sure what ever our administration comes up with will be good for us.

Another would be to hire US workers and pay competitive US wages at plants located in the US.  Bringing in foreign laborers who are willing to take less for a shot at living here hurts US manufacturers.

Another would be to hire US workers and pay competitive US wages at plants located in the US.  Bringing in foreign laborers who are willing to take less for a shot at living here hurts US manufacturers.

Exactly. The concessions agreed upon on both sides can get rather creative. It just takes some sharp people to come up with those creative concessions and then make the other side believe they are getting a good deal. 

Maybe I should read “The Art of the Deal”?

Exactly. The concessions agreed upon on both sides can get rather creative. It just takes some sharp people to come up with those creative concessions and then make the other side believe they are getting a good deal. 

Maybe I should read “The Art of the Deal”?

When both sides walk away wishing they'd gotten more, you know the deal was fair.  We've been living with deals that play on our guilt of being a wealthy nation compared to many others.  We pretend a bad deal for the US will result in "good will" toward us in the future.  In reality, it makes us look stupid and weak.  It's an invitation to others to take advantage of our weakness.

They make products people want.

If Ford/GM/Dodge cannot make cars that Europeans want we should not try to force the EU to give us special preference over European cars.

If both sides agree to no tariffs then that is free trade. That is where demand plays its roll and competition benefits the consumer. If Ford and GM get protection in the form of tariffs that doesn't help the consumer, it doesn't push Ford or GM to produce a better car.

The EU isn't some poor third world nation that can make the same products for pennies on the dollar where our industries can't compete on cost.

You missed the point and deflecting, again.  The issue of government subsidy is that it gives their companies an advantageous position to challenge products made in foreign markets where the governments don’t subsidize.

And I was referring to my example of the LG and other Korean washing machines where subsidies made it near to impossible for US companies to compete. Not pertaining to the car market.

Exactly. The concessions agreed upon on both sides can get rather creative. It just takes some sharp people to come up with those creative concessions and then make the other side believe they are getting a good deal. 

Maybe I should read “The Art of the Deal”?

Or even better negotiator where you have the other side proposing deals that are actually to your advantage because of initial stances taken in negotiations. Many of which are often shit on by the MSM and seeming causing irrational fear in liberals.

Or even better negotiator where you have the other side proposing deals that are actually to your advantage because of initial stances taken in negotiations. Many of which are often shit on by the MSM and seeming causing irrational fear in liberals.

Not used to all this winning. 

It’s nice to see that American exceptionalism is not dead, yet. We have good people in our government that we don’t know exist. I think Pompeo is one of those exceptional people who only want to work with exceptional people. I think I have finally come to the conclusion that we will win in all these trade deals. It is now a matter of time and the people working behind the scenes. It will happen.

This is a bigger deal for our country than most understand. Reducing the trade deficit is a YUGE deal. Other than currency fluctuations we have not had major trade deficit swings in a very long time. I have not seen the financial markets so positive about our financial future in a VERY LONG TIME.

Not used to all this winning. 

It’s nice to see that American exceptionalism is not dead, yet. We have good people in our government that we don’t know exist. I think Pompeo is one of those exceptional people who only want to work with exceptional people. I think I have finally come to the conclusion that we will win in all these trade deals. It is now a matter of time and the people working behind the scenes. It will happen.

This is a bigger deal for our country than most understand. Reducing the trade deficit is a YUGE deal. Other than currency fluctuations we have not had major trade deficit swings in a very long time. I have not seen the financial markets so positive about our financial future in a VERY LONG TIME.

YUGE ya say, eh?

I think this nation has gotten used to taking the short end of deals in the name of partnering with our “allies” that folks forgot what it is to be in a position to prosper. And the whole nation, not just the -%.

Pissing off the moderator is always a smart move ....

 

Moderators shouldn't troll if they can't take the criticism.

Moderators shouldn't troll if they can't take the criticism.

Moderators are expected to troll.  It's their duty.

You, on the other hand, get paid to do it.

Moderators shouldn't troll if they can't take the criticism.

oh, you were being critical?
I didn't notice, I was too busy being popular

Tariffs are not necessarily protectionism. They can be used to make one type of trade more even when circumstances dictate a very onedsided trade advantage such as the one the Europeans have with us. Remember my previous post explaining the differences between European car makers making cars here and exporting them to Europe. Thereby the profit from the sales of these cars remains in Europe so we do not benefit from collecting the taxes on those sales. And remember I said that Ford and GM make cars in Europe and the profit from the sales of those cars stays in Europe. So Europe gains a huge tax advantage over us in regards to car sales. See how complicated this is?

I don’t know where you get the idea that American car companies do not make cars that Europeans do not want to buy? We do. And have for many decades. As a matter of fact Ford was really huge in Europe at one time back in the day. Since the Europeans DO NOT buy American cars made in America we are at a disadvantage in trade between us. However, this does not mean that Europeans do not buy American cars. They buy American cars made in Europe. Just so you know that by brand Ford of Europe is #3 selling over 1M cars last year and Opel/Vauxhall (GM) is in the #4 spot with just under a 1M cars sold in Europe last year. That’s a lot of cars considering you didn’t think we made cars that Europeans don’t want to buy.

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2017-full-year-europe-best-selling-car-manufacturers-and-brands/

Free and fair trade is a great concept but the one thing about Trump is that he won’t allow us to be taken advantage of. If there is anyone who ever doubted Trump and his ability to understand and negotiate such complicated deals only for the best of America then it is due solely due to their blind hatred. Trump is doing something no other president has done. And that is to not sell our economy to the highest bidder for his own gain. JMHO

I just hope that Trump isn't so stubborn and getting a good deal for us that he doesn't shut down an actual reasonable

Yes I know that Ford owns a number of Brands including some European car companies and I did not say that they have no cars successful in Europe, I was explaining that our car companies generally don't make as many cars the Europeans want. I know the Ford focus is popular there though.

I am having trouble seeing how BMW making their cars over here is bad for us in trade. They build factories here and hire people here so all of that Manufacturing cost benefits our country. The alternative would be to Simply build their cars in their country which they sell in their country and we would get none of that. I keep seeing BMW mentioned but not that many European car companies have factories here. If BMW spends money to make cars here for sale in another country, why should we get to tax those sales? That would mean China should get to put tariffs for all the things American companies make in China and have shipped to America to sell.  I think the risk of trying to get tariffs that benefit us better then them is that BMW another car companies might just decide not to build cars in America at all and we would lose out then

I don't think tariffs should be used to manipulate demand though and that is what Trump seems to be doing to me.