Stand your ground... (Read 54538 times)

hvybarrels

Stand your ground...
« on: April 17, 2012, 10:12:44 AM »
...unless of course you are dark skinned.


In The State Of Florida – Marissa Alexander Had A Gun Permit, Stood Her Ground, Did Not Shoot Or Kill Anyone and Faces 25 Years In Prison,Lincoln B. Alexander Jr on behalf of Marissa Alexander
Case No: 2010-CF-8579
Division: CR-G
 
April 3, 2012
 
Dear Supporters:
 
On August 1 2010, my premature baby girl, born nine days earlier, was in the Baptist South N.I.C.U. fighting for her life and I would too be fighting for my life in my own home against an attack from my husband.
My name is Marissa Alexander, I am a mother of three children, but at the present time, I am not able to be with them due to the following circumstances.  I am currently sitting in the Pretrial Detention Facility in Jacksonville FL, Duval County awaiting a sentence for three counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon with no intent to harm.  Before my life changed drastically on that August afternoon, I was in the perilous position of leaving an abusive relationship with my husband who has history of violence and documented domestic abuse towards women.  Our history included one which required me to place an injunction for protection against violence and was active during the month of August 2010.
In an unprovoked jealous rage, my husband violently confronted me while using the restroom.  He assaulted me, shoving, strangling and holding me against my will, preventing me from fleeing all while I begged for him to leave.  After a minute or two of trying to escape, I was able to make it to the garage where my truck was parked, but in my haste to leave I realized my keys were missing.  I tried to open the garage but there was a mechanical failure. I was unable to leave, trapped in the dark with no way out.  For protection against further assault I retrieved my weapon; which is registered and I have a concealed weapon permit.  Trapped, no phone, I entered back into my home to either leave through another exit or obtain my cell phone.
He and my two stepsons were supposed to be exiting the house thru the front door, but he didn’t leave.  Instead he came into the kitchen that leads to the garage and realized I was unable to leave.  Instead of leaving thru the front door where his vehicle was parked outside of the garage, he came into the kitchen by himself.  I was terrified from the first encounter and feared he came to do as he had threatened.  The weapon was in my right hand down by my side and he yelled, “Bitch I will kill you!”, and charged toward me.  In fear and desperate attempt, I lifted my weapon up, turned away and discharged a single shot in the wall up in the ceiling.  As I stood my ground it prevented him from doing what he threatened and he ran out of the home.  Outside of the home, he contacted the police and falsely reported that I shot at him and his sons.  The police arrived and I was taken into custody.
I was devastated and would continue to be for months following the incident.  I had to appear in court all the way up until trial as I plead not guilty and know that I acted in self-defense.  I believe my actions saved my life or prevented further harm, but preserved that of my husband who was completely irrational, extremely violent, and unpredictable that day.
Florida has a self-defense law and it includes the right to stand your ground.  Below are the facts of my concern with the incorrect way the law was applied and ultimately the injustice in my case.
·        The alleged victim, my husband, under sworn statement in November 2010, admitted he was the aggressor, threatened my life and was so enraged he didn’t know what he would do.
·        The alleged victim, my husband, was arrested for domestic violence two times, once for abuse against me.  The attack against me was so violent; I ended up in the hospital.
·        Prior to my arrest, I told the office I was in fear for my life due to the prior violence against me.  I also told the officer there was a domestic injunction in place to protect me against abuse from the alleged victim.  This information was written in detail by the officer in my arrest report, but ignored for some unknown reason.
·        In July of 2011, a hearing was held, where I along with the alleged victims testified as it relates to the stand your ground law and its immunity from prosecution.
·        After the hearing, Judge Elizabeth Senterfitt denied my motion, citing that I could have exited the house thru the master bedroom window, front door, and/or sliding glass back door.  The law specifically states: No duty to retreat.
·        My attorney entered a standing objection on the record to the ruling and we proceeded to trial.
·        During that time, Angela Corey, our State Attorney met with the alleged victims.  I also along with my attorney met with Angela Corey, John Guy, and then prosecutor Christen Luikart.  I justified my actions to them and the truth as I have told it has remained the same.
·        Knowing our prior domestic abuse history, Angela Corey was hard pressed for the minimum mandatory, which provisions allow for prosecution to wave those stipulations.  I was not guilty, nor did I believe that was fair and just under the circumstances.  She also allowed for those same provisions in the State vs. Vonda Parker, same charges different circumstances which did not include self-defense.
·        Florida uses a law commonly known as 10-20-life as a sentencing guideline when a felony takes place with the use of a weapon.  Under this statute, my felony charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon without intent to harm carries a twenty year mandatory sentence.
·        Stand your ground law has been applied in multiple recent incidents, the following is just a couple of incidents.  Carl Kroppman Jr was allowed to use this law to avoid being arrested/charged during a road rage incident on the Buckman Bridge in Jacksonville, FL in August of 2011.  Marqualle Woolbright of Ocala, FL avoided murder charges due to the stand your ground law when he shoot and killed someone.
I am a law abiding citizen and I take great pride in my liberty, rights, and privileges as one.  I have vehemently proclaimed my innocence and my actions that day.  The enigma I face since that fateful day I was charged through trial, does the law cover and apply to me too?
A step further and more importantly is in light of recent news, is justice for all include everyone, regardless of gender, race or aristocratic dichotomies.  I simply want my story heard, reviewed and the egregious way in which my case was handled from start to finish serve as an eye opener for all and especially those responsible for upholding judicial affairs.
The threat that day was very real, imminent, and the battery on me occurred minutes before the decision I made to protect myself.  That decision was a last resort, necessary and a reaction to the continued threat on my life.  I am a believer that grace allowed for my response to be carried out in a non-lethal manner.  This prevented the imminent threat and harm a non-fatal tactic, but not against an unknown attacker, rather my very own husband.  That was by far the most difficult position to be in nine days after giving birth to a six week premature infant.  My heart goes out for my two stepsons and always has had a hurt and sincere empathy for them being subjected innocently to that trauma.
 
The law states that I was justified in standing my ground and meeting force with force up to including deadly force, but political views and concerns states otherwise in the 4th circuit court.
So my last questions and valid concerns are what was I supposed to do that day and the stand your ground law who is it for?
 
Sincerely,
Lincoln B. Alexander Jr on behalf of Marissa Alexander
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

hvybarrels

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2012, 10:15:01 AM »

"As the shooting death of Trayvon Martin and the failure of authorities to arrest his killer, George Zimmerman, continues to grab headlines, many conservatives and gun rights advocates insist that race has nothing to do with it. Some have also rallied to the defense of Florida’s “stand your ground” law, the self-defense legislation under which Zimmerman was able to avoid arrest. Yet not all stand your ground claims are so successful. Not too far from Sanford, Fla., a black man named John McNeil is serving a life sentence for shooting Brian Epp, a white man who trespassed and attacked him at his home in Georgia, another stand your ground state....."

the rest of this story at:

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/11/when_stand_your_ground_fails/singleton/?mobile.html
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

Aegis808

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2012, 09:31:37 AM »
she didn't stand her ground properly. you don't take warning shots, you shoot to kill. it's a very unfortunate circumstance but as is if you are going to defend yourself with a firearm you are better off killing your attacker rather than trying to scare them off. it's got nothing to do with race quit trying to make it seem like it does.

gun control is the true enemy of minorities.

Heavies

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2012, 09:33:20 AM »
gun control is the true enemy of minorities.

+100

Kingkeoni

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2012, 09:55:26 AM »
she didn't stand her ground properly. you don't take warning shots, you shoot to kill. it's a very unfortunate circumstance but as is if you are going to defend yourself with a firearm you are better off killing your attacker rather than trying to scare them off. it's got nothing to do with race quit trying to make it seem like it does.

gun control is the true enemy of minorities.

Thank you for intelligence.

Why do people try to make everything about race?   :wtf:
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

GZire

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2012, 10:15:25 AM »
"As the shooting death of Trayvon Martin and the failure of authorities to arrest his killer, George Zimmerman, continues to grab headlines, many conservatives and gun rights advocates insist that race has nothing to do with it. Some have also rallied to the defense of Florida’s “stand your ground” law, the self-defense legislation under which Zimmerman was able to avoid arrest. Yet not all stand your ground claims are so successful. Not too far from Sanford, Fla., a black man named John McNeil is serving a life sentence for shooting Brian Epp, a white man who trespassed and attacked him at his home in Georgia, another stand your ground state....."

the rest of this story at:

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/11/when_stand_your_ground_fails/singleton/?mobile.html


An interesting video and point of view from a black man in America:


Funtimes

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2012, 12:36:45 PM »
she didn't stand her ground properly. you don't take warning shots, you shoot to kill. it's a very unfortunate circumstance but as is if you are going to defend yourself with a firearm you are better off killing your attacker rather than trying to scare them off. it's got nothing to do with race quit trying to make it seem like it does.

gun control is the true enemy of minorities.

You shoot to stop -- not to kill.
Check out the Hawaii Defense Foundation.
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Defender of the Accused in Arkansas Courts
Posts are not legal advice & are my own, unless said so.

DonRow

Stand your ground...
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2012, 12:46:13 PM »
I smell a troll feast on this tread.

hvybarrels

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2012, 01:05:49 PM »
If someone having a different opinion than you is considered trolling then I think you are living in the wrong country.

Also thanks Gzire for posting the link to Johnny Apologist. Kind of reminds me how the oil execs hire 'specialists' to refute climate change and the dangers of fracking in an era of super tornadoes and flammable tap water. Just trying to tell couch potatoes what they want to hear. Racism doesn't exist and everyone in this country has a fair and equal chance at the American dream. I have some prison statistics and/or a bridge to sell if you believe that.

Seriously though...you'll go to bat for murderous wannabe-cop out looking for trouble but if a woman who was almost beaten to death fires a warning shot then 25 years is justified? This conversation is very revealing. It's actually making me reconsider my stance on concealed carry here in Hawaii. 

I also believe gun control is the enemy of minorities especially since it got really popular around the time of the black panthers (the originals, not the clowns in the video) but we aren't talking about gun control. We are talking about a huge double standard in law enforcement, the judicial system, and anglo-centric popular culture. 
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

hvybarrels

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2012, 01:15:36 PM »
Also nobody has anything to say about John McNeil? He got life for shooting a guy with a criminal record for assault who threatened his family with a knife in his driveway. Georgia has a stand your ground law. Where is the outrage from the so-called liberal media and the 2a community? Seems like they would find something in common interest in that story.
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

DonRow

Stand your ground...
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2012, 01:30:24 PM »
I think I'm going trolling this afternoon wonder what I'm going to catch.

GZire

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2012, 06:22:46 PM »
Also nobody has anything to say about John McNeil? He got life for shooting a guy with a criminal record for assault who threatened his family with a knife in his driveway. Georgia has a stand your ground law. Where is the outrage from the so-called liberal media and the 2a community? Seems like they would find something in common interest in that story.


I don't know the background of the story and may not even decide to investigate further (once I get home the brain gets turned off)..........anyhow.................assuming all the items presented are facts, I do have one serious issue and it is this;

Quote
..............According to McNeil’s testimony, when he pulled up to his house, Epp was next door grabbing something from his truck and stuffing it in his pocket. McNeil quickly grabbed his gun from the glove compartment in plain view of Epp who was coming at him “fast.”  McNeil jumped out of the car and fired a warning shot at the ground insisting that Epp back off. Instead of retreating, Epp charged at McNeil while reaching for his pocket, so McNeil fired again, this time fatally striking Epp in the head. (Epp was found to have a folding knife in his pocket, although it was shut.).................


Now if I'm Epp;
1.  Who's to say the pocket knife wasn't already in his pocket?  Why does reaching into my pocket mean anything?  Could be keys, gum, change, whatever.
2.  I see you go for a gun, then I'm charging you to save my life.  I'm not outrunning a bullet.
3.  If you fire a warning shot, then obviously you aren't scared for your life, fear for sodomy/rape/maiming, in fact you are out to scare me.
4.  You fire a warning shot, you have time to shoot me in the head...........wow you are a pretty cool cucumber.  Most guys aren't that cool, not even police.  In fact when you take classes you'll find out how many guys actually end up shooting the posted bad guy targets in the hands when they are holding knives, guns, etc. (stuff that can harm you).  Basically what happens is under pressure you tend to focus on the danger.
5.  Even with this said above, if there is another type of disparity of force, then yes a fatal shooting IMHO would be justified, however it's tough when you only have one side of the story.  My best guess is the story isn't as simple as Rania Khalek is making it sound...........but that's her job isn't it?  To sway our judgement.  The Georgia Supreme Court however voting 6:1 against overturning does say something to me.

GZire

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2012, 06:33:47 PM »
One more thing Heavy, from a pro-John McNeil site;
http://naacp.3cdn.net/fc42dbcf19ea10ca12_r0m6yx6f9.pdf

Quote
..............When McNeil pulled into his driveway, he was still on the phone with the 911 operator and told her he saw the builder and was going to “whip his ass.”................

McNeil's own testimony from his 911 call............seems pretty confrontational no?  To me (arguing as a prosecutor) it sounds like he wanted some payback and things got out of hand.

I still am pretty amazed at the one shot only to the head.  Pretty cool cat.

GZire

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2012, 06:38:10 PM »
If someone having a different opinion than you is considered trolling then I think you are living in the wrong country.

Also thanks Gzire for posting the link to Johnny Apologist. Kind of reminds me how the oil execs hire 'specialists' to refute climate change and the dangers of fracking in an era of super tornadoes and flammable tap water. Just trying to tell couch potatoes what they want to hear. Racism doesn't exist and everyone in this country has a fair and equal chance at the American dream. I have some prison statistics and/or a bridge to sell if you believe that.

Seriously though...you'll go to bat for murderous wannabe-cop out looking for trouble but if a woman who was almost beaten to death fires a warning shot then 25 years is justified? This conversation is very revealing. It's actually making me reconsider my stance on concealed carry here in Hawaii. 

I also believe gun control is the enemy of minorities especially since it got really popular around the time of the black panthers (the originals, not the clowns in the video) but we aren't talking about gun control. We are talking about a huge double standard in law enforcement, the judicial system, and anglo-centric popular culture.

Hey man don't fear, just call him an Uncle Tom.  He says so himself in his video.

Regarding climate change...........the experts don't deny climate change.  The fact of the matter is the climate is always changing.  The difficulty is the technology and history of tracking change reliably only has been around a short time on a geologic scale.  In fact how do you quantify the change if one part of the world is hotter and one part of the world is colder than you wish?  It's not an easy matter and people want to simplify matters.

One last item before I go home for tonight.................what woman was almost beaten to death fires a warning shot then gets 25 years?  What am I missing, I thought we were talking about John McNeil?

hvybarrels

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2012, 10:10:27 PM »
There are two different stories I posted links to. One is the lady who could get 25 years for a warning shot against her abusive ex boyfriend and the other is the guy who is doing life for killing a guy on his property who was threatening his family. Both should have been protected by the Stand Your Ground law. Both were of African-American descent. They weren't out cruising the neighborhood looking for strangers to hassle. The trouble came to them.
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

hvybarrels

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2012, 10:31:25 PM »
Hey man don't fear, just call him an Uncle Tom.  He says so himself in his video.

Regarding climate change...........the experts don't deny climate change.   John McNeil?

His show is setting up straw man arguments, red herrings, and misdirection for a lazy audience that is impressed by cheap visual fx and 'tough talk'. He's a paid shill. Calling him Uncle Tom is letting him off too easy.

The energy industry is still in the process of switching funding from climate change denial into encouraging things like carbon tradeoff credits and greenwashing advertising campaigns. They might try and extend their dominion by herding us into ultra-dense cities by making cash illegal and controlling us through credit, but chances are everything will fall apart before those plans are fully implemented. That's another thread.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/01/gm-will-no-longer-give-money-to-climate-change-denying-heartland/

Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

Aegis808

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2012, 12:16:23 AM »
You shoot to stop -- not to kill.

right, right. that gets me every time. it's really annoying how i have to be pc even when it comes to shooting someone.

Aegis808

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2012, 12:27:57 AM »
His show is setting up straw man arguments, red herrings, and misdirection for a lazy audience that is impressed by cheap visual fx and 'tough talk'. He's a paid shill. Calling him Uncle Tom is letting him off too easy.

The energy industry is still in the process of switching funding from climate change denial into encouraging things like carbon tradeoff credits and greenwashing advertising campaigns. They might try and extend their dominion by herding us into ultra-dense cities by making cash illegal and controlling us through credit, but chances are everything will fall apart before those plans are fully implemented. That's another thread.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/01/gm-will-no-longer-give-money-to-climate-change-denying-heartland/

nice strawman. :stopjack:

 even with stand your ground laws you can expect a long and possibly expensive legal process in making sure you aren't put into jail or sued into oblivion. every little thing you do for your self defense will be scrutinized and a miniscule error in the escalation of force can screw you over big time. the only reason you heard about the trayvon martin case so much is because they wanted you to hear about it, otherwise you likely wouldn't give a shit about these people. it seems like you're stuck in the "it's always the white mans fault" mentality that so many island boys will never get out of their system.

Cougar8045

Re: Stand your ground...
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2012, 11:24:15 AM »
There are two different stories I posted links to. One is the lady who could get 25 years for a warning shot against her abusive ex boyfriend and the other is the guy who is doing life for killing a guy on his property who was threatening his family. Both should have been protected by the Stand Your Ground law. Both were of African-American descent. They weren't out cruising the neighborhood looking for strangers to hassle. The trouble came to them.
So if I go out and find two stories about white people who got screwed by the system, will you stop all this foolishness about the Evil White Man?  Big deal; a couple black folks got screwed; welcome to the legal system.  People of all races, colors, and creeds get hosed every single day.  It doesn't mean the world is out to get brown people; it means our system is run by humans and is by definition imperfect.  Get over it.
I'm just a fluffy white bunny rabbit who lost his way. 

"If a thief be found breaking in, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. ..."  -Exodus 22:2

DonRow

Stand your ground...
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2012, 12:24:33 PM »
So if I go out and find two stories about white people who got screwed by the system, will you stop all this foolishness about the Evil White Man?  Big deal; a couple black folks got screwed; welcome to the legal system.  People of all races, colors, and creeds get hosed every single day.  It doesn't mean the world is out to get brown people; it means our system is run by humans and is by definition imperfect.  Get over it.
Justice Is Blind.


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