Maunakea TMT Protests (Read 284210 times)

changemyoil66

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #320 on: August 01, 2019, 11:05:28 AM »
On face value, the “anybody but Ige and Dems” sound enticing from a 2a standpoint. However, from my dealings with Hawaiian community leaders based on my work on State DOT projects, A) that would prob be retry low on their radar and B) if you could get enough support from a group working toward the same goal/vision.

This issue certainly seems to have galvanized things in that regard. But I still believe we’re hearing from the vocal minority.

Just tell em if anyone tries to take their land then can defend it.  See Bundy Ranch standoff as a recent example.

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #321 on: August 01, 2019, 12:21:17 PM »


the US is going just say, "my bad" and all US Govt and State owned lands are returned as "reparations"

The terminology you are using is incorrect.  There are no reparations; just deoccupation.  The US is giving nothing material to the reinstated Hawaiian government, but the expedient withdrawal of their institutions of control.

macsak

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #322 on: August 01, 2019, 01:12:52 PM »
The terminology you are using is incorrect.  There are no reparations; just deoccupation.  The US is giving nothing material to the reinstated Hawaiian government, but the expedient withdrawal of their institutions of control.

so they can destroy the military bases and airport and harbors so that they can return the land in its' original condition...

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #323 on: August 01, 2019, 01:19:34 PM »
so they can destroy the military bases and airport and harbors so that they can return the land in its' original condition...
The illegal occupiers never "owned" any of that stuff as it was the legal property of the "kingdom" or the "republic" or "something", so they wouldn't be allowed to destroy it. Remember, the person you are "discussing" this with has already told us that "There is no dispute that the USA has no legal authority over Hawaii and that Hawaii is illegally being occupied by the USA". Case closed. Right?

mrgaf

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #324 on: August 01, 2019, 01:32:24 PM »
China wouldn't have to invade, once 70% percent of the state's nation's income vanishes China will gladly step in to "help". Unfortunately for the new nation of Hawaii, China has a "no f#@ks given" attitude in regards to the current politically correct and entitlement mindset that has allowed this situation to get to its current point. Im at the point where i say f$@k it. Dont haul the tanks to port drive'em on the fed interstate as a nice gift to the newborn nation.Destroy all fed infastructure on the way out.  :popcorn:

Leave it as we found (took) it....
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Only good liberal is one taking a dirt nap.

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #325 on: August 01, 2019, 01:34:56 PM »
What if this new monarchy wants the US infrastructure in place?
There are so many what-ifs and so many opinions, Kings & Queens that we don't know what or WHO to believe.
Deeds Not Words

drck1000

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #326 on: August 01, 2019, 01:36:32 PM »
so they can destroy the military bases and airport and harbors so that they can return the land in its' original condition...
He seems to believe that he will be able to utilize what was built by the “occupiers” and get rid of what he doesn’t want nor need.

drck1000

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #327 on: August 01, 2019, 01:38:13 PM »
What if this new monarchy wants the US infrastructure in place?
There are so many what-ifs and so many opinions, Kings & Queens that we don't know what or WHO to believe.
You beat me to it...  :thumbsup:

mrgaf

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #328 on: August 01, 2019, 01:38:20 PM »
The illegal occupiers never "owned" any of that stuff as it was the legal property of the "kingdom" or the "republic" or "something", so they wouldn't be allowed to destroy it. Remember, the person you are "discussing" this with has already told us that "There is no dispute that the USA has no legal authority over Hawaii and that Hawaii is illegally being occupied by the USA". Case closed. Right?

And who would stop us? The U.N. Or “global community”? Sure there would be “enemies” of the U.S. willing to step in and “help” but at what cost to the new republic? Just a pipe dream...... the U.S. isn’t going anywhere.


To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Only good liberal is one taking a dirt nap.

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #329 on: August 01, 2019, 01:55:21 PM »
What if this new monarchy wants a telescope?
Would the protestors still proclaim Mauna Kea a sacred place?
AND what if this new monarchy confiscated all firearms from commoners.
Deeds Not Words

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #330 on: August 01, 2019, 02:49:25 PM »
so they can destroy the military bases and airport and harbors so that they can return the land in its' original condition...


The reinstated Hawaiian government can do nothing should the US decide to take this course of action, but I am confident other friendly nations will help Hawaii to rebuild.

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #331 on: August 01, 2019, 02:51:47 PM »
What if this new monarchy wants the US infrastructure in place?
There are so many what-ifs and so many opinions, Kings & Queens that we don't know what or WHO to believe.

All actions of deoccupation is according and subject to international law.  Personal opinions of any individual do not count.

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #332 on: August 01, 2019, 02:53:55 PM »
He seems to believe that he will be able to utilize what was built by the “occupiers” and get rid of what he doesn’t want nor need.

That is what India did when the British left India and what China did when the Japanese were finally kicked out of their country and similarly what they did when the British was kicked out of Hong Kong.

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #333 on: August 01, 2019, 02:55:36 PM »
And who would stop us? The U.N. Or “global community”? Sure there would be “enemies” of the U.S. willing to step in and “help” but at what cost to the new republic? Just a pipe dream...... the U.S. isn’t going anywhere.


Your opinion, not the opinion of the majority of Hawaiians.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #334 on: August 01, 2019, 02:57:20 PM »

The reinstated Hawaiian government can do nothing should the US decide to take this course of action, but I am confident other friendly nations will help Hawaii to rebuild.

You can't "reinstate" a "Hawaiian Government" as a monarchy.  Monarchies have a single individual with supreme authority.  You really think, after decades as a US state, the people of Hawaii would prefer an autocratic government over a representative one?  The people would decide -- all the people, not just descendents of so-called Ali'i.  To "reinstate" a monarchy requires a belief in elites, based on nothing other than bloodline, deserving more power over your lives than yourself.

Once a society has tasted freedom, it rarely goes back to authoritarian rule willingly.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #335 on: August 01, 2019, 02:59:03 PM »
What if this new monarchy wants a telescope?

So be it.


Would the protestors still proclaim Mauna Kea a sacred place?

The spiritual protectors of TMT would probably still protest, but most other Hawaiians would accept the decision of their government.


AND what if this new monarchy confiscated all firearms from commoners.

That would be illegal and new legislation would need to be enacted for this to happen, as the possession of firearms was permitted during the Hawaiian Kingdom era.
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Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #336 on: August 01, 2019, 03:02:20 PM »
You can't "reinstate" a "Hawaiian Government" as a monarchy.  Monarchies have a single individual with supreme authority.  You really think, after decades as a US state, the people of Hawaii would prefer an autocratic government over a representative one?  The people would decide -- all the people, not just descendents of so-called Ali'i.  To "reinstate" a monarchy requires a belief in elites, based on nothing other than bloodline, deserving more power over your lives than yourself.

Once a society has tasted freedom, it rarely goes back to authoritarian rule willingly.

If you read my previous posts, many Hawaiian historical and legal scholars are currently analyzing this issue of whether a monarchy or republic would be restored.  I personally agree a democratically elected republic would likely be more practical and expedient political way moving forward.

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #337 on: August 01, 2019, 03:06:03 PM »
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/22770/Hawaii-Gun-Carry-Ban-Legit-Because-Its-Century-Old.aspx

“Hawaii’s petition for rehearing triumphantly declares that ‘Hawaii has regulated the public carry of firearms for over 150 years,’ pointing to various enactments in 1852, 1927, and 1934,” the brief explains.

The state argues such restrictions have been widespread and longstanding.

“This is quite an assertion. … For most of Hawaii’s history, the island nation had no republican form of government – rather, it was a monarchy, ruled by kings and queens. Even after later transitioning to a constitutional monarchy, the Kingdom of Hawaii Constitution of 1840 did not recognize a right of the people to bear arms.”
Deeds Not Words

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #338 on: August 01, 2019, 03:13:50 PM »
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/22770/Hawaii-Gun-Carry-Ban-Legit-Because-Its-Century-Old.aspx

“Hawaii’s petition for rehearing triumphantly declares that ‘Hawaii has regulated the public carry of firearms for over 150 years,’ pointing to various enactments in 1852, 1927, and 1934,” the brief explains.

The state argues such restrictions have been widespread and longstanding.

“This is quite an assertion. … For most of Hawaii’s history, the island nation had no republican form of government – rather, it was a monarchy, ruled by kings and queens. Even after later transitioning to a constitutional monarchy, the Kingdom of Hawaii Constitution of 1840 did not recognize a right of the people to bear arms.”


The historical records offer no indication that Kingdom of Hawaii forbade the ownership of firearms.  In fact, one needs to look at the illegal overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy to learn how the American descended Hawaiian nationals legally acquired their firearms to conduct their insurrection.

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #339 on: August 01, 2019, 03:32:49 PM »
No king or queen with any sense would tolerate an armed populace. 
Happily living in Puna