Maunakea TMT Protests (Read 284206 times)

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #360 on: August 02, 2019, 09:11:02 AM »
From a lengthy thread:

"If you don't have lineage going back that far [1893] you'd have to move out of Hawaii and apply for citizenship of [sic] you wanted to live here."

Citizenship after deoccupation are only for those who were official nationals or descended from such nationals of that nation prior to that occupation.


Yeah, I know, you're the person who knows it all, and part of your all knowing knowledge is that "there is no dispute" about any of this, so the above quote from that person means he doesn't exist and the quote doesn't exist because there is no dispute and you are always right.

Not always right, but very legally clear on what is an illegal occupation and what needs to happen after deoccupation takes place.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #361 on: August 02, 2019, 10:10:20 AM »

Who said anything about kicking out US citizens?  Who's going to pay the property taxes if there are no property owners?

Deoccupation primarily focuses on control of the nation state, its laws, and public lands. 


Can't wait for the Haole Tax ....
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #362 on: August 02, 2019, 10:14:38 AM »
Can't wait for the Haole Tax ....

Depends on which definition of haole.  It's true meaning or today's slang.

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #363 on: August 02, 2019, 10:26:27 AM »
Don't matter - in a monarchy the King / Queen decides. Or what ever pipe dream of a government replaces the current one.
So let's get back to talking about... ???
Deeds Not Words

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #364 on: August 02, 2019, 10:27:35 AM »
My father was born in 1910, the youngest of 10 children.  My grandparents moved to Hawaii from China after 1893 but before 1898.  Would I be "grandfathered" in as a citizen under Kuleana's new Hawaiian government?  Or do I get a spousal exemption because my wife is one qtr Hawaiian?
Happily living in Puna

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #365 on: August 02, 2019, 10:30:38 AM »
Nothing on HNN 7am news about TMT protest.  I wanted to see what the situation was like with the heavy rains, but I think HNN told their people to get off the mountain during the storm.
Happily living in Puna

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #366 on: August 02, 2019, 10:32:15 AM »
My father was born in 1910, the youngest of 10 children.  My grandparents moved to Hawaii from China after 1893 but before 1898.  Would I be "grandfathered" in as a citizen under Kuleana's new Hawaiian government?  Or do I get a spousal exemption because my wife is one qtr Hawaiian?

Apparently, according to the thread expert on all things deoccupation:  if you own real estate here, you're good to stay!   :thumbsup:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #367 on: August 02, 2019, 11:00:56 AM »
The liar and dissembler refuses to answer the questions. Again.

So you believe.

**** It's not a question of "belief". There are simple facts: You lie ("there is no dispute"). Or ignorant beyond belief. Which is it?  And, you didn't answer the questions, so that doesn't require belief either, it's a fact.


Why would anyone be "afraid" to exercise their right to free speech in front of the criminal racists who have sworn to "kapu aloha" on their superstitious "sacred" "cultural practice" location? Oh, I get it...you mean because you, and everyone else, knows full well that you and they are blatant hypocrites who in the blink of an eye will turn violent when they hear something they don't like from someone exercising their free speech right.

Making comments that the people who are opposed to TMT are violent is very judgmental and wrong.

**** Again, refuse to answer the question. Why should we be "afraid" to exercise our free speech rights in the presence of the superstitious racist criminals at the Mauna Kea access road? If they aren't violent, why do you suggest we go and see what happens when a view contrary to theirs is voiced? What is your point, if not that? Go ahead, give us one of your "indisputable" answers. Or, continue to deflect and avoid, like usual.


How would we get to the "summit of Mauna Kea" asshole? Your criminal racist buddies are blocking the public road. Or don't you know what's going on there? Dumbass.

Is this the 2A Hawaii forum or the Democratic National Convention?  Name calling?  Really immature.  So sad...       :(

**** Yeah, this is the DNC. That's mature for sure. And really clever. Dumbass. Liar. Hypocrite. So dumbass liar hypocrite when are you taking me to the summit of Mauna Kea like you suggested we do to exercise our first amendment rights?

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #368 on: August 02, 2019, 11:10:47 AM »
From a lengthy thread:

"If you don't have lineage going back that far [1893] you'd have to move out of Hawaii and apply for citizenship of [sic] you wanted to live here."

Citizenship after deoccupation are only for those who were official nationals or descended from such nationals of that nation prior to that occupation.

**** Yeah, you don't answer the question. You asked a question "who said that?" and I provided the quote stating "you'd have to move out of Hawaii". You don't answer that at all and only repeat your previously (20 times?) stated assertion about citizenship, which has nothing to do with the question at hand. Hypocrite.


Yeah, I know, you're the person who knows it all, and part of your all knowing knowledge is that "there is no dispute" about any of this, so the above quote from that person means he doesn't exist and the quote doesn't exist because there is no dispute and you are always right.

Not always right, but very legally clear on what is an illegal occupation and what needs to happen after deoccupation takes place.

**** LOL! "Very legally clear"? That's nothing more than your personal opinion (and a deluded one at that) about what the legalities are. You're absurd assertion that "there is no dispute" about any of those legal questions that you claim to be so "very legally clear on" is belied by these very forums, and literally thousands of articles, including ones in legal journals that not only "dispute" your ignorant claims, but totally contradict them. Your delusion is not amenable to reason, or reality. But apparently you like living in fantasy land. So be it. But don't expect us to believe you or your obvious lies and stupidity.

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #369 on: August 02, 2019, 01:39:23 PM »
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/08/02/tensions-high-uh-board-regents-meeting-mauna-kea-management/

“Yes, I hope David Lassner resigns,” Kaeo told the board. “In fact, I challenge Mr. Lassner to a public debate on whether or not this institution is a system of racism."

I went to UH as a minority with no problems. Only problem I had were my bad grades...because I didn't go to class regularly and studied like I should....
 forget all that...
Racism!
because I had bad grades....
Deeds Not Words

changemyoil66

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #370 on: August 02, 2019, 01:41:31 PM »
Was OHA ever involved with this?

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #371 on: August 02, 2019, 01:58:54 PM »
Was OHA ever involved with this?

from the beginning...
http://hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/23944/OHA-Anti-Telescope-Activism-Begins-With-Rejection-of-Cayetano-Era-Settlement.aspx

...Kealoha Pisciotta, explains how, in 2001, her organization Mauna Kea -Anaina Hou, along with the Royal Order of Kamehameha, developed a demand for $50M...

http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/15019/Telescope-For-OHA-itrsquos-all-About-the-Rent-Money.aspx

As the media’s illusory graph of the body politic busily traces the arch of hysteria, Pisciotta didn’t tell CBS about her “economic proposal”—Lease rent for “god’s home” of “$50 million per year.”  And nobody mentioned Clayton Hee’s 2002 demand for astronomers to cough up “$20 million in endowments” for the Office of Hawaiian Affairs (OHA). 

https://www.kitv.com/story/40838984/oha-approves-resolution-to-fund-supplies-for-demonstrators-at-mauna-kea

The Office of Hawaiian Affairs is asking Governor David Ige to rescind his emergency proclamation for Mauna Kea. All nine trustees unanimously voted Thursday to approve a resolution that supports a proclamation retraction and allows OHA to advocate for the health and well being of demonstrators.
That includes releasing funds to provide supplies for protectors at the base of the summit.



So most of these protestors who joined the truck cruises and the demonstrators won't be seeing any of the $50M if TMT gets through...all that gas...time...energy. For nothing. It's all about empowering OHA trustees.
Money...$50M a year for the life of the TMT...under the guise of Hawaiian Sovereignty, sacred, religion, movement etc...
oh yeah...OHA has a lot of "cultural" influence with their immersion schools. a la 1984

and it's deeper than the TMT
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/ID/340/OHA-driving-Hawaiians-out-of-Hawaii.aspx

Thousands of Hawaiians and non-Hawaiians have left Hawaii in recent years. In 2007 nearly 10,000 residents left—proportionally higher than the average rate of exodus from communist Cuba. The primary reason for these departures is the lack of affordable housing in Hawai`i. And yet the Office of Hawaiian Affairs has consumed the last 14 years seeking to prevent the construction of affordable housing on ‘ceded’ lands. According to OHA ‘ceded’ lands are to be used for the benefit of Hawaiians. In reality OHA’s policy is to grab power for its Trustees by preventing the use of ‘ceded;’ lands for the benefit of Hawaiians and non-Hawaiians alike.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 02:28:18 PM by ren »
Deeds Not Words

mrgaf

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #372 on: August 02, 2019, 02:46:56 PM »
 :sleeping:  :sleeping: :sleeping: Kuleana’s bullshit is getting very old and very deep..... :wtf:
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.  Thomas Paine.

No man can get rich in politics unless he is a crook.  It cannot be done. Harry Truman

Only good liberal is one taking a dirt nap.

RSN172

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #373 on: August 02, 2019, 02:50:42 PM »
All the Hawaiian sovereignty groups are only concerned about getting money and power for themselves.  No different than any other politician. 
Happily living in Puna

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #374 on: August 02, 2019, 04:06:38 PM »
My father was born in 1910, the youngest of 10 children.  My grandparents moved to Hawaii from China after 1893 but before 1898.  Would I be "grandfathered" in as a citizen under Kuleana's new Hawaiian government?  Or do I get a spousal exemption because my wife is one qtr Hawaiian?

Why would you not be?  Your grandparents presumably gained legal status during the Republic era.  There should be no issue should you, a descendant of a Hawaiian national, choose to reclaim Hawaiian citizenship.

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #375 on: August 02, 2019, 04:09:34 PM »
:sleeping:  :sleeping: :sleeping: Kuleana’s bullshit is getting very old and very deep..... :wtf:

Your opinion.

Please review the US Constitution and show me where the annexation of Hawaii in 1898 by the US is legal.

ren

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #376 on: August 02, 2019, 04:14:38 PM »
Your opinion.

Please review the US Constitution and show me where the annexation of Hawaii in 1898 by the US is legal.


the TMT was deemed legal...isn't what this thread is about?

Deeds Not Words

Kuleana

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #377 on: August 02, 2019, 04:23:10 PM »


It was until someone decided to go into the direction it has gone.

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #378 on: August 02, 2019, 04:30:23 PM »
It was until someone decided to go into the direction it has gone.
Gee, I wonder who that would be?

punaperson

Re: Maunakea TMT Protests
« Reply #379 on: August 02, 2019, 04:59:05 PM »
https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/2019/08/01/mountain-of-lies-against-tmt.html

Mountain of lies against TMT

By A. Kam Napier  – Editor-in-Chief, Pacific Business News

One of the frustrating things about watching the Thirty Meter Telescope protests stifle construction are all the emotionally manipulative lies being used to justify the blockade. Chief among the mischaracterizations is the idea that the telescope is somehow going to make greedy developers rich.

None other than actor Leonardo DiCaprio did a drive-by social media hit this weekend advancing that whopper, by passing along Instagram posts from graphic designer Ashley Lukashevsky and ethically challenged former state Rep. Kaniela Ing. Lukashevsky, a part-time Hawaii resident who sells “Protect Mauna Kea” posters for $25 on her website, says: “Standing in solidarity with protestors on Mauna Kea, protecting the sacred aina from scientific imperialism. It breaks my heart to see indigenous people and land continue to be dismissed by the state of Hawaii and its wealthy developers.”

Ing’s post says the protests are “an environmental struggle against wealthy developers who seek free reign. It’s a microcosm of what’s happening across Hawaii and the world: profiteers exploiting fragile places without regards for the future. … Some things are more important than a quick buck — like our planet’s and people’s survival. That would be $1.3 billion well spent.”

That’s some pretty dramatic rhetoric. It’s also untrue.

There are no greedy developers. There is no profit, no quick buck, no profiteering. The $1.4 billion price tag is not proof that shadowy evil rich guys somewhere expect to get richer. It’s proof only that such a sophisticated, one-of-a-kind instrument is extremely complicated and expensive to build. And it’s being built, if it’s ever allowed to be built, by a nonprofit organization that basically has to beg for the money in the form of grants.

If you can’t oppose something without lying about it, then the thing you’re opposing literally does not exist. You’re opposing nothing but a figment of your imagination.

The only real profit to be made on Mauna Kea is knowledge.

Just last week, Hawaii Island’s W.M. Keck Observatory announced that observations made there of a star transiting a supermassive black hole near the center of our galaxy will play an important part in understanding how well Albert Einstein’s theories hold up. The observations have taken nearly a quarter century to perform and can shed light on how the universe itself operates.

This is not a luxury resort being built over the iwi. This is not Kahoolawe being bombed by the Navy. It’s a telescope. It’s something everyone can be proud of. The protestors want to decide for all of us, Hawaiian and non-Hawaiian alike, that learning new things is just “scientific imperialism” and something Hawaii wants no part of.

That’s the bottom line for protestor leader Kahookahi Kanuha, who has flat-out stated there is nothing to negotiate. Their position is final. No TMT. The Canary Islands can have it. Humanity can get smarter over there.

What a thing to be proud of.

As for the state, what can I say? Gov. David Ige has punted the negotiations, in which one side won’t negotiate, to Mayor Harry Kim, who doesn’t want the job and literally has no role to play. It is not his county government that is really being tested here.

Does Ige get this? Does anyone in the administration get it? Does the Legislature? The protestors are testing you. They think you’re kidding when you say TMT has a legal right to proceed. They think the entirety of state government is an illegitimate joke.

A million other citizens of Hawaii are waiting to see if the state will prove the protestors right, that state government is, in fact, a joke.

If the state caves, the protestors will celebrate, briefly, before the sad reality kicks in. Winning this will do nothing for them, nothing for Hawaii. They’ll be king of the hill on a mountain of spite.