Thoughts on Iran??? (Read 33148 times)

Kuleana

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2020, 09:46:47 PM »


The statements made on the actions of Iran in your video link are very compelling.

However, the CIA is just as, if not even more guilty of what that video says of Iran.  I hope everyone educates and/or refreshes their memory of what the CIA has done and is continually doing to terrorize this planet since its birth after WWII.

Please see for details:   https://www.globalresearch.ca/a-timeline-of-cia-atrocities/5348804

The only lacking thing of the linked article above is that it only covers what the CIA has been doing in the name of the US up until the 1990s.  As we all know, the CIA continues to conduct its covert and unaccountable illegal evil activities to this day and God only knows what evils they have done that we will find out in the years to come.

macsak

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2020, 09:47:40 PM »
I am not necessarily against the retaliatory strike (I still need to learn more about it to have an informed opinion) but I do worry what will follow. Iran learns to not mess around or it starts WW3?

Sometimes doing something aggravates the situation and sometimes not doing anything aggravates it. Unfortunately it often isn't clear which one will aggravate the situation.

to be, or not to be
that is the question...

changemyoil66

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2020, 09:48:55 PM »
We did nothing and solemianis attacks kept continuing.

So we finally did something. Remember what trump said when our unmanned drone was shot down? He called off the airstrike because no americans died or were harmed. So its not "fair" to kill 150 iranians.

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aieahound

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2020, 10:03:20 PM »
1.  The deliberate targeting of military officials of a sovereign country that the US is not at war sets a terrible precedent to both the allies and enemies of the US.
That’s the bold part.
Where does it lead?

This ain’t Osama Bin Ladin who had no national affiliation.
This was a Country’s top general. (Evil or not)

Got it let it play.
Wild ride though.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2020, 10:09:31 PM »
to be, or not to be
that is the question...

Damned if we do, damned if we don't?

hvybarrels

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2020, 10:42:03 PM »
Bear with me while I to do a little mass murder math here.

If we killed half a million people in the War on Terror and the cost is estimated to be around 2.4 billion (yes- both are highly conservative numbers) then that puts the average cost per dead person around 4 million dollars, and over half of those were civilians while the rest were mostly low level fighters or people misclassified in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Let's just say today is the rare exception where actually feel like I got my money's worth.
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

ren

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2020, 10:43:51 PM »
That general was the leader of a designated terrorist organization which is part of a nation state. A country that is a dictatorship. A country that affords no rights what so ever to its people.
As I stated before, we were not going to let them play the Benghazi card again.
Deeds Not Words

Kuleana

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2020, 10:44:29 PM »
That’s the bold part.
Where does it lead?

This ain’t Osama Bin Ladin who had no national affiliation.
This was a Country’s top general. (Evil or not)

Got it let it play.
Wild ride though.

That's a real understatement.

Most people who understand the gravity of this situation knows that Iran will respond.  What kind of response is anyone's guess.  However, those who are wishing for a military response from Iran so they can orgasm watching the US demonstrate their military superiority may be gravely disappointed.

There are many other economic weapons Iran can use to fight back, especially at a time when Trump is seeking reelection later this year.  If the US economy suffers anything significant from now till November, you can bet whoever the Democratic challenger at that time will have a strong argument to use against Trump, which in turn could possibly cause his defeat.   

hvybarrels

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2020, 11:08:12 PM »
I think Trump just scored a touchdown here. Iranian government is already highly unpopular and now they seem a whole lot less invincible. Time will tell.

Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2020, 11:32:39 PM »
I think Trump just scored a touchdown here. Iranian government is already highly unpopular and now they seem a whole lot less invincible. Time will tell.



What many pundits are ignoring is the turmoil and protests inside Iran, primarily because the economic sanctions are working to put pressure on the government.

That internal unrest coupled with Trump's hardline stance could be the catalyst that results in reform, or at least changes in leadership. 

Notice Iran said they would not retaliate if the US agreed to ease economic sanctions.  So, their desire for revenge appears to be secondary to their need to ease the economic suffering of their citizens.

Nothing happens in a vacuum.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

stangzilla

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2020, 05:07:08 AM »
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

Inspector

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2020, 06:59:03 AM »
How about Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian territories?
Kuleana

I take exception to this statement you made. I’ll try not to get into too much detail because it is long and drawn out. But basically, International law and the law in the U.N. at the time of the 6 Day War says otherwise. International law basically states that a country that was attacked on it’s sovereign soil can claim certain types of land from where the attackers came and occupy said lands. In order to do this legally, Israel has to abide by International law and norms. And Israel has done just that. Then there were a series of agreements between the PLO and Israel up to and including the Oslo Accords/Agreements (Oslo 1 and 2). Those agreements between Israel and the Palestinian Authority at the time agreed to Israel’s occupation of certain territories. This is where we are left. We are still waiting to further negotiate the terms of the Oslo Accords. This is the actual law and agreements that are still in effect to this day. Anything else is all leftist BS.

These are the territories you claim are illegally occupied. I believe you that are incorrect about this. Israel has followed International law to a T. And is LEGALLY occupying the territories per their agreement with the Palestinian Authority and within International law. All of the laws and agreements that effect this situation are in this article below. It is very long and dry. But if you want to believe the leftist claims that all occurred after Israel’s LEGAL occupation of the territories, that is your prerogative. But you would be wrong to believe this. All resolutions past in the U.N. After the Oslo Accords are non-binding. Meaning it is just one country’s way of trying to condemn Israel. Because we all know people hate the Jews for no good reasons. 

BTW, the article below is very good at providing links to the International law and agreements that were in place at the time. If you would like to dispute what I am saying here, please provide links to the international laws (Not condemnations and not non-binding issues) that are applicable BEFORE the 1995 Oslo 2 Accords since anything after that is not applicable.

https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/294359/israels-rights-in-the-west-bank-under-international-law

“Firstly, and underscoring all other considerations, are the international legal rights emanating from the indigenous and historic claims of the Jewish people in the area as a whole, virtually from time immemorial. These rights were acknowledged in 1917 by the Balfour Declaration’s promise of a national home for the Jews in Palestine, and subsequently recognized internationally and encapsulated into international law through a series of international instruments.

Secondly, Israel’s legal rights following the 1967 Six-Day War, as the power administering the West Bank areas of Judea and Samaria (so described in the U.N. 1947 Partition Resolution 181), and the concomitant, unique sui genesis status of the area.

Thirdly, Israel’s rights under international law following the 1993-1995 Oslo Accords between Israel and the PLO, and especially the 1995 Interim Agreement, (commonly known as Oslo 2) which established a unique territorial arrangement as a form of lex specialis, that divided the control and governance of the West Bank areas between a Palestinian Authority established for that purpose, and Israel.”

***

“As such, the PLO, as the formal representative of the Palestinian people, formally agreed that in addition to those West Bank and Gaza Strip areas in which all powers and responsibilities for governance and administration would be transferred into the hands of the Palestinian Authority (Areas A and B and the Gaza Strip), Israel would retain powers and responsibilities in part of the area (Area C) vis-a-vis both local Palestinian residents in the area, as well as the Israeli citizens residing in settlements and villages. The parties agreed that this arrangement would remain valid pending the outcome of negotiations between them on the permanent status of the areas.

Despite attempts by the international community, through nonbinding political statements and resolutions in the U.N., to prejudge the outcome of the negotiations by claiming that the territories are “occupied Palestinian territories,” there exists no such legally accepted or agreed to determination.

Similarly, the Oslo Accords did not specify the form the permanent status of the area would take—whether one state, two states, federation, confederation or otherwise. Thus, states and organizations advocating a “two-state solution” are, in fact preempting the outcome of the negotiations that have yet to take place. Any agreed solution will only emanate from negotiations between the Palestinian leadership and Israel and cannot be imposed unilaterally by U.N. resolutions, or by any international forum, or individual leaders.

Any permanent status agreement, if and when reached, will be the sole agreed upon instrument duly determining the status of the area and the respective international and bilateral rights and commitments both of Israel and the Palestinians.

Time will tell.”
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 07:42:23 AM by Inspector »
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

changemyoil66

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2020, 07:33:57 AM »
Bear with me while I to do a little mass murder math here.

If we killed half a million people in the War on Terror and the cost is estimated to be around 2.4 billion (yes- both are highly conservative numbers) then that puts the average cost per dead person around 4 million dollars, and over half of those were civilians while the rest were mostly low level fighters or people misclassified in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Let's just say today is the rare exception where actually feel like I got my money's worth.
4 for 1 deal. Cost of a hellfire? Art of the deal. Trump had a coupon.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Kuleana

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2020, 08:13:49 AM »
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

I agree 100%!

Based on that fine piece of wisdom, all the nations and people that have suffered from the destabilization, illegal overthrows, and color revolutions as a result of the CIA and other US proxies should punish the US for its tyranny.

I guess that explains Iran's and all the other nations that are hostile to the US today.

See and read "Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire" by Chalmers Johnson for details

ren

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2020, 08:34:03 AM »
If you were President of the USA how would you handle Iran? Lots of anti US opinions. Should've could've done this & that...so let's hear it.
Deeds Not Words

Kuleana

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2020, 09:47:48 AM »
If you were President of the USA how would you handle Iran? Lots of anti US opinions. Should've could've done this & that...so let's hear it.

To address and alleviate the Iranian situation as it is now, the following is the basic strategy I would employ.



Militarily
1.  Inform all the nations in the Middle East that the US will begin systematic withdrawal of all of its military personnel, equipment, and bases with a completion time of one year.

2.  The only military presence that will remain will be proportionately deployed naval vessels that are there to safeguard America's oil transports in the region.


Given the national debt of the US, the US can no longer maintain its military outposts and garrisons.  Hence, the following actions will not only free up resources to make America great again domestically, but show the World that the US is beginning to end its experiment of empire and, hence, begin to earn real respect and rebuild its global image.

As for the nations in the Middle East, they are all on their own.  If they wish to kill each other in the name of Jihad, that is their own peoples lives and business.

As president, the only thing that matters to me are Americans.  Hence, as long as this country gets what it needs to survive (oil), all other issues in the Middle East are not America's concern.



Political/Economical
1.  Renormalize diplomatic relations with Iran.

2.  Establish a new treaty of trade.
 

Peace through trade will start becoming the foundation of America's new foreign policy.  America will begin a new phase of its history by focusing its efforts in trying to get the best trade deals with Iran and all other nations FAIRLY, while officially eliminating those elements in the US that planned and orchestrated the policies of regime change, color revolutions, illegal overthrows, perpetual wars, etc. in GOOD FAITH.


Nuclear Related

1.  Sign a Joint US-Iran nuclear deal, which allows Iran nuclear power plants, but jointly constructed and operated by US scientists.



This would allow Iran to peacefully enjoy the advantages of nuclear power, but under American supervision.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 09:59:44 AM by Kuleana »

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2020, 10:53:16 AM »
If you refuse to fight someone who wants to kill you, it's not called "peace".  it's called "surrender."

No matter what the US does, Iran will not "normalize diplomatic relations."  They are an ideologically based society run by a religious leader.  They chant "Death to America" and Death to Israel".  They publicly call for the complete destruction of the state of Israel.  They invade their neighbors with force to take what they have (review the Kuwait invasion by Iraq).  No matter how much "trade" we have with them, they will never accept the US as worthy of respect.

Israel is the "Little Satan".  America is the "Great Satan".

Change their minds?  Good luck.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Satan

Quote
The Great Satan (Persian: شيطان بزرگ‎; Shaytân-e Bozorg) is a derogatory epithet for the United States of America
in Iranian foreign policy statements. Occasionally, these words have also been used toward the government of the
United Kingdom.

The term was originally[citation needed] used by Iranian leader Ruhollah Khomeini in his speech on November 5,
1979 to describe the United States, which he accused of imperialism and the sponsoring of corruption throughout
the world.[1] The speech occurred one day after the onset of the Iran hostage crisis.

Ayatollah Khomeini also occasionally used the term "Iblis" (the primary devil in Islam) to refer to the United States
and other Western countries.
   :                       :
   :                       :
The State of Israel was condemned as the "Little Satan" in 1979 by Khomeini when he was addressing Israel's backing
of the Shah, its close ties to the US, and the ongoing Israeli–Palestinian conflict. Former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi
also stated that "Israel is the little Satan" in a July 1980 interview.[24]
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

groveler

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2020, 11:03:05 AM »
If you were President of the USA how would you handle Iran? Lots of anti US opinions. Should've could've done this & that...so let's hear it.
I like to play Chess. I'm not as good as I would like, but I know you need to control
the center of the board. I would at the next Iranian provocation take out the 3 refineries
and one nuke power plant they have and then watch the results.
I'd expect they would declare war.  We could then respond with a
Lawful declaration of war, the first in nearly 80 years.
We can then fix our problem.  Moslems, here and there.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Thoughts on Iran???
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2020, 11:14:38 AM »
I like to play Chess. I'm not as good as I would like, but I know you need to control
the center of the board. I would at the next Iranian provocation take out the 3 refineries
and one nuke power plant they have and then watch the results.
I'd expect they would declare war.  We could then respond with a
Lawful declaration of war, the first in nearly 80 years.
We can then fix our problem.  Moslems, here and there.

Obama did nothing but present a weak underbelly to Iran.  He gave them $1.7B in part to release hostages (let's call that what it is: extorted ransom money), and he unlocked upwards of $150B in frozen assets for Iran to access.  He was scared of taking any actions against them for 5 years, because he was in the midst of negotiating the nuclear arms deal with them.  Any tensions over other issues would slow or halt the signing of the deal.

So, if Obama "inherited" problems from the Bush administration, it's a fact that Trump inherited the problems with Iran from Obama.  To hang 40 years of bad policy and terrorist aggression on Trump after 3 years in office is asinine.

I'm not saying you are laying this at Trump's doorstep.  Just adding that to the discussion.

As for declaring war -- I think we are bound by the UN charter to let the UN step in to stop Iranian aggression.  Declaring war, in and of itself, is illegal for member states.  If a member state is attacked, the UN allies join to stop it.   If a member state is the aggressor, they are punished in other ways as well, such as expulsion from the organization.

I don't think the US will ever declare war officially unless we decide the UN is no longer a viable endeavor.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw