Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor (Read 14948 times)

Kuleana

Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« on: April 07, 2020, 07:38:13 PM »
Covid-19 has really uncovered the pitfalls of financing the largest military the World has seen.  Most recently, it has brought to light how America's soldiers and seamen are nothing but expendable assets in order to maintain the American empire.

The recent firing of Captain Crozier of the nuclear aircraft carrier, USS Theodore Roosevelt, is the most high profile event that illustrated how far the US military will go to ensure discipline within its ranks in order to dominate the seas.  His being relieved of his command, though justifiable, nevertheless shows that there are still patriotic Americans who will not sacrifice the health and well-being of the personnel under their command for imperial goals.

macsak

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2020, 08:09:18 PM »
Covid-19 has really uncovered the pitfalls of financing the largest military the World has seen.  Most recently, it has brought to light how America's soldiers and seamen are nothing but expendable assets in order to maintain the American empire.

The recent firing of Captain Crozier of the nuclear aircraft carrier, USS Theodore Roosevelt, is the most high profile event that illustrated how far the US military will go to ensure discipline within its ranks in order to dominate the seas.  His being relieved of his command, though justifiable, nevertheless shows that there are still patriotic Americans who will not sacrifice the health and well-being of the personnel under their command for imperial goals.

yes, that is likely exactly what happened...

drck1000

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2020, 08:37:14 PM »
SNIP

The recent firing of Captain Crozier of the nuclear aircraft carrier, USS Theodore Roosevelt, is the most high profile event that illustrated how far the US military will go to ensure discipline within its ranks in order to dominate the seas.  His being relieved of his command, though justifiable, nevertheless shows that there are still patriotic Americans who will not sacrifice the health and well-being of the personnel under their command for imperial goals.
Who exactly is being patriotic and who is protecting those under their Command, exactly?

This ought to be interesting. Since you are such an expert.

RSN172

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2020, 08:49:55 PM »
I wouldn’t call him a hero or traitor.  Just a guy doing what he felt was the right thing.  I really don't understand why he got fired for this, but there was some mention on the news about Trump is going to look into whether or not his firing was justified.
Happily living in Puna

Heavies

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2020, 10:02:44 PM »
Imagine you own and operate the biggest baddest gun store on the island, fully stocked, and tons of ammunition.  All the best stuff.

You have a longtime trusted friend to manage and run it for you. 

Your manager goes on Facebook and publicly announces many of the security alarms and features and cameras are down, the locks on the doors and windows are weak and compromised, possibly many more to break in a few days.  You can't get it fixed right away because everyone's on lockdown.

Now every criminal and hoodlum on the island knows that your store is easy pickings. Top of the line guns and ammo just waiting.

What would you do?

hvybarrels

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2020, 02:12:52 AM »
Imagine you own and operate the biggest baddest gun store on the island, fully stocked, and tons of ammunition.  All the best stuff.

You have a longtime trusted friend to manage and run it for you. 

Your manager goes on Facebook and publicly announces many of the security alarms and features and cameras are down, the locks on the doors and windows are weak and compromised, possibly many more to break in a few days.  You can't get it fixed right away because everyone's on lockdown.

Now every criminal and hoodlum on the island knows that your store is easy pickings. Top of the line guns and ammo just waiting.

What would you do?

Take out the biggest baddest insurance policy.
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

RSN172

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2020, 04:37:17 AM »
The Sec of the Navy that fired the Captain has apologized and resigned.  His crew greatly respected him.  I am sure we will learn more.
Happily living in Puna

Mdotweber

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2020, 05:49:32 AM »
Imagine you own and operate the biggest baddest gun store on the island, fully stocked, and tons of ammunition.  All the best stuff.

You have a longtime trusted friend to manage and run it for you. 

Your manager goes on Facebook and publicly announces many of the security alarms and features and cameras are down, the locks on the doors and windows are weak and compromised, possibly many more to break in a few days.  You can't get it fixed right away because everyone's on lockdown.

Now every criminal and hoodlum on the island knows that your store is easy pickings. Top of the line guns and ammo just waiting.

What would you do?
^This...
   it was a f+ckup from top to bottom. You dont air the Navy's dirty laundry(wether justified or not) while you are flexing in a high profile theatre. SecNav messed up with the content of his speech to the crew which was stupidly broadcasted on the MC1 for everyone to hear.

On a different note, imagine the amount of damage covid19 could inflict on a small island population like Guam.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2020, 06:14:38 AM by Mdotweber »
"Dont forget, incoming fire has the right of way"-Clint Smith?

Kuleana

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2020, 07:52:04 AM »
Who exactly is being patriotic and who is protecting those under their Command, exactly?

Yes, I am an expert of putting the well-being of the people I manage above myself.

In the case of Captain Crozier, he definitely did the right thing.  He knew there was a breakout of the exponentially rapid infectious Covid-19 on board his ship.  He also knew that the US was NOT AT WAR with any nation at the time.  Unknowing how many sailors he would loose and the many more that would get infected, he made the decision to save his crew, fully accepting the consequences of his actions.

Is he a hero or traitor?

To those who believe in defending the AMERICAN EMPIRE at all costs, even during a time of peace, not war; well, I guess Captain Crozier is a traitor to the empire and his punishment NEEDS to be made an example to other military commanders who would DARE consider the lives of those they lead, since no empire ever sleeps.

BUT, for those who believe he was acting in the best interest of his command, during a time of peace in the name of the AMERICAN REPUBLIC, he IS a hero and a patriot.

drck1000

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2020, 07:58:49 AM »
SNIP

Now every criminal and hoodlum on the island knows that your store is easy pickings. Top of the line guns and ammo just waiting.

What would you do?
Might as well put up a sign that says "Gun Free Zone, come take my stuff". 

^This...
   it was a f+ckup from top to bottom. You dont air the Navy's dirty laundry(wether justified or not) while you are flexing in a high profile theatre. SecNav messed up with the content of his speech to the crew which was stupidly broadcasted on the MC1 for everyone to hear.

On a different note, imagine the amount of damage covid19 could inflict on a small island population like Guam.
Pretty much. 

I've done work on Guam many times and yes, something like COVID-19 would be bad. 

drck1000

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2020, 08:10:13 AM »
Yes, I am an expert of putting the well-being of the people I manage above myself.

In the case of Captain Crozier, he definitely did the right thing.  He knew there was a breakout of the exponentially rapid infectious Covid-19 on board his ship.  He also knew that the US was NOT AT WAR with any nation at the time.  Unknowing how many sailors he would loose and the many more that would get infected, he made the decision to save his crew, fully accepting the consequences of his actions.

Is he a hero or traitor?

To those who believe in defending the AMERICAN EMPIRE at all costs, even during a time of peace, not war; well, I guess Captain Crozier is a traitor to the empire and his punishment NEEDS to be made an example to other military commanders who would DARE consider the lives of those they lead, since no empire ever sleeps.

BUT, for those who believe he was acting in the best interest of his command, during a time of peace in the name of the AMERICAN REPUBLIC, he IS a hero and a patriot.
::)

What do you think?  What is the context of the folks that you manage? 

Resisting the urge to type something demeaning here, but I don't believe you have a wide enough view to understand the bigger picture. 

And I still don't understand why you feel the need to bold, caps, bigger font, etc to try to emphasize your point. . . 

Kuleana

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2020, 08:26:26 AM »
::)

What do you think?  What is the context of the folks that you manage? 

Resisting the urge to type something demeaning here, but I don't believe you have a wide enough view to understand the bigger picture. 

And I still don't understand why you feel the need to bold, caps, bigger font, etc to try to emphasize your point. . .


I am a civilian who leads my own department.  What is the context of those you lead that gives you the expertise in this matter?  Where you in charge of your own ship, air wing, or garrison?

Yes; please educate those of us who do not understand as to what is the bigger picture that you speak?

I provided emphasis in my last post because there are people who do believe in sacrificing the health and lives of good servicemen for nothing, during a time of peace.

Heavies

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2020, 08:36:13 AM »
Might as well put up a sign that says "Gun Free Zone, come take my stuff". 
Pretty much. 

I've done work on Guam many times and yes, something like COVID-19 would be bad. 

Yep. It's the running joke when we need to work on Guam.  DON'T GET SICK

Heavies

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2020, 08:37:56 AM »

I am a civilian who leads my own department.  What is the context of those you lead that gives you the expertise in this matter?  Where you in charge of your own ship, air wing, or garrison?

Yes; please educate those of us who do not understand as to what is the bigger picture that you speak?

I provided emphasis in my last post because there are people who do believe in sacrificing the health and lives of good servicemen for nothing, during a time of peace.

Time and time again, you cannot conceptualize the big picture, no sense in trying to explain it to you again.

macsak

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2020, 08:45:58 AM »
::)

What do you think?  What is the context of the folks that you manage? 

Resisting the urge to type something demeaning here, but I don't believe you have a wide enough view to understand the bigger picture. 

And I still don't understand why you feel the need to bold, caps, bigger font, etc to try to emphasize your point. . .

he capitalizes and bolds so he can learn those of us who are less educated and worldly than he is
otherwise, he might loose our attention because we are so stupid and ignorant

Kuleana

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2020, 08:47:57 AM »
Time and time again, you cannot conceptualize the big picture, no sense in trying to explain it to you again.

Nice try.

The reason you may not want to explain the big picture in this case is because it will ultimately expose the nonsense of what the military has been doing abroad and the obscene amount of financial resources it has sapped over the decades when some of those funds could have been better allocated to domestic items that directly benefits Americans, as highlighted by the current pandemic crisis in the US.

drck1000

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2020, 08:53:01 AM »
Yep. It's the running joke when we need to work on Guam.  DON'T GET SICK
I was doing work there before the Navy Hospital was up and running.  That was  :shake:  Especially when we were out there doing a lot of field work, on construction sites, etc. 

Time and time again, you cannot conceptualize the big picture, no sense in trying to explain it to you again.
From a college buddy, and Navy officer who has held and I believe currently is in a Command position:

Quote
"Command is a sacred trust" and the burden is not taken lightly.  Noble intent and proper execution don't always align.

drck1000

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2020, 08:53:28 AM »
he capitalizes and bolds so he can learn those of us who are less educated and worldly than he is
otherwise, he might loose our attention because we are so stupid and ignorant
loose heads

clips

macsak

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2020, 09:01:56 AM »

changemyoil66

Re: Captain Crozier: Hero or Traitor
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2020, 09:11:32 AM »
  He did follow certain protocol from his early request. And being in command for so long, he knows that the military takes time to get stuff done.

But the fact is that he sent an unsecured email about the ships status.  Even if that email stated that they're still operational, it still gives info to who ever that there are sick people aboard and operational status is now in question.  Which could open them up to attack or attacks in the area knowing that a carriers abilities are in question.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure his sailors love him and up to this point, he's a great captain, by evidence of him leaving the ship.  How many captains get that kind of send off?  Talked to a few Navy guys and they said that kind of send off doesn't happen.  1 guy was in the Navy in the 70's and another got out 5 years ago.  Both were on carriers.

On a plus note, he was just relieved of command.  He keeps his rank and no further NJP or anything.  He will most likely retire.  So even if Trump does look into the matter, what's he going to do?  Put him back in command of the carrier?  This isn't a #freeeddie.

So I don't think he's either a hero or a trader.  He's just a good captain who thought he was doing right by his crew and messed up.