Socialism works... (Read 45680 times)

ren

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2020, 08:16:29 PM »
all these characters being wasted on this argument could have gone to emails to the Mayor to open the range. For those of you that believe in socialism send your red envelopes to the Mayor instead of emails.
Deeds Not Words

eyeeatingfish

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2020, 09:16:20 PM »
The Founding Fathers were not in favor for a standing military because they were creating a Republic, not another British-like Empire that America has become today.  In fact, certain 2nd Amendment scholars reiterate the fact that the reason the populace were allowed to have similar type of arms to that of the military was because the militia would become the military in times of war and disbanded, once the war ended.  Hence, there would be no need for a standing military.  Standing armies is a telling sign of the road to empire and the Founding Fathers would be appalled to see what they fought against, their nation has become.  In fact, I would offer that they would probably be the people today, who call for another revolution to end the American empire and create another Republic.

Not having a standing army was something much more feasible back when the country was founded. WW1 and WW2 showed us that there were significant downsides to having to suddenly raise an army. In today's world it simply isn't a feasible option when we are the leader of the free nation and attacks can come from across the world in a matter of hours. Could we cut back on the military budget a bit? Sure, but doing away with a standing military would be a mistake.

And drug cartels are hardly a way to measure the effectiveness of our military, that just doesn't make any sense.

And there were a number of good reasons to get into the war. Can start with the Nazis for starters and it would have been difficult to remain neutral in the pacific.

Hitler showed an insatiable desire for more territory regardless of the cost and they had developed a bomber that could nearly reach New York. The Nazi's were a threat even before any open hostilities. We are beyond the point of sitting out genocides.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2020, 09:17:20 PM »
Anti-military guys irritate me,
I despise cops,
but Military is ethical
honorable people.

A bit ironic.

Quote
Don't believe me?
Cops murder people all the time,
no problem.
A US Marine urinates
on a dead Moslem enemy
combatant, and needs a Presidential
pardon.
Y'all figure it out.

For the most part, this is demonstrably untrue.

macsak

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2020, 09:55:39 PM »
Not having a standing army was something much more feasible back when the country was founded. WW1 and WW2 showed us that there were significant downsides to having to suddenly raise an army. In today's world it simply isn't a feasible option when we are the leader of the free nation and attacks can come from across the world in a matter of hours. Could we cut back on the military budget a bit? Sure, but doing away with a standing military would be a mistake.

And drug cartels are hardly a way to measure the effectiveness of our military, that just doesn't make any sense.

And there were a number of good reasons to get into the war. Can start with the Nazis for starters and it would have been difficult to remain neutral in the pacific.

Hitler showed an insatiable desire for more territory regardless of the cost and they had developed a bomber that could nearly reach New York. The Nazi's were a threat even before any open hostilities. We are beyond the point of sitting out genocides.

really?
developed as in mass produced? or just a concept?

hvybarrels

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2020, 11:26:48 PM »
Not having a standing army was something much more feasible back when the country was founded. WW1 and WW2 showed us that there were significant downsides to having to suddenly raise an army. In today's world it simply isn't a feasible option when we are the leader of the free nation and attacks can come from across the world in a matter of hours. Could we cut back on the military budget a bit? Sure, but doing away with a standing military would be a mistake.

And drug cartels are hardly a way to measure the effectiveness of our military, that just doesn't make any sense.

And there were a number of good reasons to get into the war. Can start with the Nazis for starters and it would have been difficult to remain neutral in the pacific.

Hitler showed an insatiable desire for more territory regardless of the cost and they had developed a bomber that could nearly reach New York. The Nazi's were a threat even before any open hostilities. We are beyond the point of sitting out genocides.

What a lot of people do not know is that we could have easily picked the side of Germany. Our industrialists were already tied in with them including ford and notoriously IBM. The issue was solved when England agreed to hand us the keys to their empire, which was too sweet a deal to pass up. Never mind how we needed the war against Japan in order to expand paccom.

That is the problem with standing armies, The temptation is great to over expand and dominate/exploit regions we have no business controlling. Our founding fathers were well aware of the course of empire. They all come crashing down. Except the Brits. They made a deal to give theirs up and were able to avoid the more horrific consequences.
“A Communist system can be recognized by the fact that it spares the criminals and criminalizes the political opponent.”   -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2020, 11:40:03 PM »

Your opinion.

What makes you think serving in the military automatically gives you a greater knowledge of national defense strategy and or tactics?

Oh wait, let me guess, you were part of the Joint Chiefs of Staff when you served and part of the staff that advised the President on national defense strategy.

I'd answer you,

but then I'd have to explain it to you.   :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2020, 11:51:57 PM »
That is irrelevant.

The Founding Fathers knew all too well what the purpose was for standing armies and navies in the British Empire: to police their empire that is no different for America today.  If missile are your concern, build more missiles and lay off the global garrisons.



You make it sound that America has been innocent in the affairs of the Middle East and that they have never done anything to provoke the people of that region.  America has been messing around and participating in illegal overthrows of governments in that region for decades, which has resulted in countless numbers of Muslim dead as a result.  In fact, according to Chalmers Johnson's national bestseller, "Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire", the attacks on 9/11 should not have been a surprise.

And there were never violent overthrows/attempted coups of governments in the days of Washington, both in the US and abroad -- by domestic and foreign powers?

Being on a "best seller" book list doesn't have the meaning it used to, but nice try by giving a man whose credentials are from the 60s and 70s your attention.

Quote
A former Cold Warrior, he notably stated, "A nation can be one or the other, a democracy or an imperialist,
but it can't be both. If it sticks to imperialism, it will, like the old Roman Republic, on which so much of our
system was modeled, lose its democracy to a domestic dictatorship."

Maybe you need to read what he actually wrote.  We ARE a republic, NOT a democracy.  Why do people lament so often that we are supposed to be something we were never created as?

Quote
Simply put: every bestseller list is a lie because no bestseller list measures the best selling books.

https://scribewriting.com/get-best-seller-list/#lie
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2020, 09:00:47 AM »
Maybe you need to read what he actually wrote.  We ARE a republic, NOT a democracy.  Why do people lament so often that we are supposed to be something we were never created as?

Wrong, the republic has long since been dead for decades, if not for the last 100 years.

It is the American empire now and you better get used to giving up your personal liberties, as all empires demand obedience not only from their neighboring countries by its own citizenry as well.

Brystont1

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2020, 01:02:43 PM »
Do you think we should do away with a standing military?

To be quite honest I’m not really sure. It depends I guess on what we value. I value freedom. I believe that the cost of having a military as enormous as it is right now far outweighs the good it does. I would imagine that a military consisting of the people (a militia I guess) would be far better for our country. I am probably in the minority on this but I believe citizens should have access to ALL types of armaments as per the 2A. Tanks, fighter jets, everything needed to protect your country should be available for the average American in my opinion. I know it sounds crazy haha but from a logical standpoint if tanks can be regulated Then so can muskets and I don’t believe that is what the framers had in mind when they wrote the constitution.

I believe certain restrictions can be put in place for the above  scenario that don’t interfere with the 2A

ren

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2020, 01:58:47 PM »
Wrong, the republic has long since been dead for decades, if not for the last 100 years.

It is the American empire now and you better get used to giving up your personal liberties, as all empires demand obedience not only from their neighboring countries by its own citizenry as well.

Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2020, 02:02:52 PM »
Wrong, the republic has long since been dead for decades, if not for the last 100 years.

It is the American empire now and you better get used to giving up your personal liberties, as all empires demand obedience not only from their neighboring countries by its own citizenry as well.

Why did you use a source with whom you disagree?

 :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2020, 02:05:25 PM »
How The Death Star Triggered a Galactic Recession

Quote
Was Emperor Palpatine's Death Star actually a Debt Star? In the original Star Wars trilogy, the rebel alliance
blew up two Death Stars, which may have thrown the galactic economy into a financial crisis.

Professor Zachary Feinstein and Bloomberg's Peter Coy tell us why.


The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

drck1000

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2020, 03:22:14 PM »
SNIP
He's dead.  I saw it in Return of the Jedi. . . So the Empire fell.  Or did it?  Were they just lying in wait on Exegol? 

ren

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2020, 03:34:33 PM »
He's dead.  I saw it in Return of the Jedi. . . So the Empire fell.  Or did it?  Were they just lying in wait on Exegol?

Deeds Not Words

Rocky

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2020, 04:06:08 PM »
How The Death Star Triggered a Galactic Recession

Emperor Palpatine's had a $500 Quintillion Double indemnity Life insurance policy.
Duh !    :crazy:
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2020, 04:18:21 PM »
Emperor Palpatine's had a $500 Quintillion Double indemnity Life insurance policy.
Duh !    :crazy:

Insured by Lando's of Bespin?  (Galactic version of Lloyds of London)
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

eyeeatingfish

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2020, 04:37:15 PM »
really?
developed as in mass produced? or just a concept?

For the most part the Germans focused on shorter range bombers and they liked 2 engine designs. I can't remember if it was some quirk from Hitler or what. However they did develop one 4 engined long range bomber called the Condor which once flew close enough to the continental US that they reported seeing lights of New York before they had to turn around. Probably couldn't have bombed New York and returned given the range but if they had managed to take the UK that might have been enough increased range.

I don't know if the USA knew of this capability and the threat was not imminent but I think would be cause for concern. Of course if the war went on long enough and the Nazi's had developed a nuke well then that changes the whole picture.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_200_Condor

eyeeatingfish

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2020, 04:43:42 PM »
To be quite honest I’m not really sure. It depends I guess on what we value. I value freedom. I believe that the cost of having a military as enormous as it is right now far outweighs the good it does. I would imagine that a military consisting of the people (a militia I guess) would be far better for our country. I am probably in the minority on this but I believe citizens should have access to ALL types of armaments as per the 2A. Tanks, fighter jets, everything needed to protect your country should be available for the average American in my opinion. I know it sounds crazy haha but from a logical standpoint if tanks can be regulated Then so can muskets and I don’t believe that is what the framers had in mind when they wrote the constitution.

I believe certain restrictions can be put in place for the above  scenario that don’t interfere with the 2A

I understand the problems with a standing army and I do have problems with how massive the cost is but I think that we would have to recognize that if we did away with a standing military that the technological, strategical, and tactical advantages we have would be severely hampered. Is that worth the trade off? We would have severe difficulties fending off an attack from a nation with a standing experienced army. The oceans would give us a bit of protection but not enough in my opinion. I am not sure I am comfortable with that risk.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2020, 07:51:53 PM »
If you think it's expensive convincing the world you're too strong to be attacked without major retaliatory destruction,
wait until we see how much it costs to have a totally reserve and national guard based defense force.

Countries like Japan can survive with a minimal military, because they have the US watching over them.  If we'd cut Japan completely loose after WWII, how long before China decided to do a little annexing with Japan's military forces wiped out?  Or S. Korea for that matter.  Korea still hates Japan for the most part for the way they treated the Korean population when they invaded.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

Kuleana

Re: Socialism works...
« Reply #59 on: May 13, 2020, 07:33:02 AM »
I understand the problems with a standing army and I do have problems with how massive the cost is but I think that we would have to recognize that if we did away with a standing military that the technological, strategical, and tactical advantages we have would be severely hampered. Is that worth the trade off? We would have severe difficulties fending off an attack from a nation with a standing experienced army. The oceans would give us a bit of protection but not enough in my opinion. I am not sure I am comfortable with that risk.

This is where many who support the imperial military of the America is getting it wrong.


Question: In the age of nuclear and conventional ballistic missiles and the courage to use them, what nation does have the capacity or would foolishly think they can conduct a land invasion of the US?

Answer: None


Question: In the age of nuclear and conventional ballistic missiles and the courage to use them, what nation does have the capacity to conduct a land invasion of all the other nations that is not the US?

Answer: America


Consequently, it the rest of the World that has more reason to maintain a standing military because of US foreign aggression.