Poll

Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown rules to be unconstitutional?

Yes, all of it
51.5%
Some of it
27.3%
No, none of it
18.2%
Undecided
3%
Total Members Voted
33

Voting closed: August 20, 2020, 10:38:16 PM

Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional? (Read 29125 times)

eyeeatingfish

Do you believe the quarantine or lockdown to be unconstitutional and if so which parts and why?

I have been hearing this argument  from a lot of different places and I find it a very interesting question. Some law enforcement officers are saying they won't enforce the rules and we have seen armed rallies protesting some of the restrictions.

What I haven't seen much in the discussion is anyone really getting into the weeds to say which specific quarantine rules they believe are unconstitutional and explaining why. On top of that different states are making different types of proclamations so what we may be seeing here is slightly different that what people may be seeing in other states. Curious what people here think.

macsak

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2020, 08:17:54 AM »

groveler

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2020, 08:56:00 AM »
Do you believe the quarantine or lockdown to be unconstitutional and if so which parts and why?

I have been hearing this argument  from a lot of different places and I find it a very interesting question. Some law enforcement officers are saying they won't enforce the rules and we have seen armed rallies protesting some of the restrictions.

What I haven't seen much in the discussion is anyone really getting into the weeds to say which specific quarantine rules they believe are unconstitutional and explaining why. On top of that different states are making different types of proclamations so what we may be seeing here is slightly different that what people may be seeing in other states. Curious what people here think.
As a rule pretty much any Democrat sponsored law or rule is un-constitutional,
or anti-Constitutional.  They force you into courts that tie up your funds and
your life to get a resolution.
Never in history has a healthy population been imprisoned for the purpose
of "protecting" them.  You quarantine sick people.  The presumption that everyone is
"sick" in this case is nuts.  The only sick people are the Democrats. I don't mind if they
voluntarily lock themselves up, kill their main productive industry, and commit economic suicide,
if that is their choice.  I just refuse to get on that ship with them.


eyeeatingfish

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2020, 11:33:03 PM »
As a rule pretty much any Democrat sponsored law or rule is un-constitutional,
or anti-Constitutional.  They force you into courts that tie up your funds and
your life to get a resolution.
Never in history has a healthy population been imprisoned for the purpose
of "protecting" them.  You quarantine sick people.  The presumption that everyone is
"sick" in this case is nuts.  The only sick people are the Democrats. I don't mind if they
voluntarily lock themselves up, kill their main productive industry, and commit economic suicide,
if that is their choice.  I just refuse to get on that ship with them.

Ok, so which rules do you think are unconstitutional and how?

Jmoto808

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2020, 11:54:39 PM »
as a nurse (which shouldn't hold much merit), i think ben shapiro had the greatest point regarding this situation and the legality behind it. I think it was a good idea for the initial response of the govt to shut down public spaces as this pandemic started to roll out in high gear, imo i don't see a constitutional infringement, and i can't imagine that our fathers would disagree with that. But as the weeks have gone by, and the number of cases have NEVER reached near what we thought it would (in hawaii at least), i think we are edging very close to being unconstitutional in our lockdown. There has to be a risk benefit assessment when it comes to this. Right now the risk is VERY low for Hawaii, so there should be no reason why we are locked down the way we are. What liberals and the media fails to recognize is that each state has its own unique issues. We cannot treat every state like its NYC or LA. There are 50 states and thousands of counties around the nation. To say its wrong for some states to open up while others are suffering is totally absurd. And to think that we won't have a bump in cases as we open up is purely ignorant at best. Yes, we will see an increase in cases as we open up, but, how will we know that for sure unless we open up? I think as long as we have a reasonable number where our hospital units are not being over loaded, we should continue to march forward with everyday life. When the govt starts to forcefully keep these businesses closed without a evidence based rationale, that is where it crosses the line IMO.

changemyoil66

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2020, 08:19:52 PM »
Red flag law is also unconstitutional.

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eyeeatingfish

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2020, 09:22:45 PM »
Red flag law is also unconstitutional.

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You already know I disagree but that is quite a different issue.

eyeeatingfish

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2020, 09:30:33 PM »
I wonder if people would protest and react the same if instead of rules about medical lockdown it was rules about what we could do during wartime. Say we had a blackout order because of enemy bombers incoming, would it be unconstitutional for them to stop us to go protest in front of the capital building with flashlights or that we couldn't have nighttime church services.

changemyoil66

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2020, 09:56:36 PM »
I wonder if people would protest and react the same if instead of rules about medical lockdown it was rules about what we could do during wartime. Say we had a blackout order because of enemy bombers incoming, would it be unconstitutional for them to stop us to go protest in front of the capital building with flashlights or that we couldn't have nighttime church services.
If we had enemy bombers hitting US soil, troop invasion would come after that. Wonder if the invading force would utilize local police to help round up the citizens. Like how the nazis used local police against their own.

Wonder if local police would provide a list of which citizens own firearms, where they live, and what is owned. Or wouls they destroy it prior to invasion?

Good thing only hawaii keeps such a list.

Offtopic

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Jmoto808

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2020, 02:16:46 PM »
I wonder if people would protest and react the same if instead of rules about medical lockdown it was rules about what we could do during wartime. Say we had a blackout order because of enemy bombers incoming, would it be unconstitutional for them to stop us to go protest in front of the capital building with flashlights or that we couldn't have nighttime church services.

I would say most likely not. And i think the reasoning is because if a red dawn situation was on our doorstep, its a threat that is tangible and it has rules that follow suit with the level of threat. The issue we have rn isnt the fact that we locked down initially to the scare of the virus, i think any rationale person would say its ok. What makes this become more and more unconstitutional imo is that we are now in May with <10 cases for 1.1 million people and yet we are still damaging our economy and forcefully preventing people from making s living and providing for their emoloyees and family. To think we can arrest people who open a gym or salon snd prevent people to exercise a 2a right in this time is legitimately scary. Its scary because at the sane time, the govt chooses to open ala moana over the things said above. Its also scary because the "rules" in place are not backed by evidence in any way shape or form.

ren

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2020, 03:19:18 PM »
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and of vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. And I am convinced that you will again give that support to leadership in these critical days.
- Franklin D. Roosevelt
Deeds Not Words

eyeeatingfish

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2020, 09:07:00 PM »
If we had enemy bombers hitting US soil, troop invasion would come after that. Wonder if the invading force would utilize local police to help round up the citizens. Like how the nazis used local police against their own.

Wonder if local police would provide a list of which citizens own firearms, where they live, and what is owned. Or wouls they destroy it prior to invasion?

Good thing only hawaii keeps such a list.

Offtopic

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I have wondered that exact thing and can only hope someone in the firearms section would have the fortitude to delete the list and its backups in the event of such an event.

ren

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2020, 10:00:11 PM »
If we had enemy bombers hitting US soil, troop invasion would come after that. Wonder if the invading force would utilize local police to help round up the citizens. Like how the nazis used local police against their own.

Wonder if local police would provide a list of which citizens own firearms, where they live, and what is owned. Or wouls they destroy it prior to invasion?

Good thing only hawaii keeps such a list.

Offtopic

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Deeds Not Words

zippz

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2020, 11:11:01 PM »
The initial orders were Constitutional as we were facing an extreme threat with limited resources and it affected the public in general.  The lockdown and quarantines were sketchy and I felt it went too far, but went I along with it cause who am I to know.    We peaked at the beginning of April, "flattened the curve" and it was apparent that the threat was overblown and the lockdown and quarantines needed to be lifted quickly or it'd be unconstitutional as the great threat wasn't there to justify it.

Quarantine and lockdowns are essentially house arrest without a trial.  It also prevents you from practicing other rights.  It should be narrowly tailored for the extreme situation.  Even martial law doesn't remove all rights, just the pertinent ones.

Here we are in June with partial lockdown and quarantines.  It's criminal and on purpose at this point.  Either the Government is incompetent or they're doing a very slow recovery on purpose to save face and make it so people think that a major catastrophe was averted.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2020, 01:13:30 AM »
The initial orders were Constitutional as we were facing an extreme threat with limited resources and it affected the public in general.  The lockdown and quarantines were sketchy and I felt it went too far, but went I along with it cause who am I to know.    We peaked at the beginning of April, "flattened the curve" and it was apparent that the threat was overblown and the lockdown and quarantines needed to be lifted quickly or it'd be unconstitutional as the great threat wasn't there to justify it.

Quarantine and lockdowns are essentially house arrest without a trial.  It also prevents you from practicing other rights.  It should be narrowly tailored for the extreme situation.  Even martial law doesn't remove all rights, just the pertinent ones.

Here we are in June with partial lockdown and quarantines.  It's criminal and on purpose at this point.  Either the Government is incompetent or they're doing a very slow recovery on purpose to save face and make it so people think that a major catastrophe was averted.

My opinion is the Democrats/Trump Haters can't allow the economy to bounce back before Nov.  They know that the economy is Trump's #1 highlight so far.  If he's able to start a spectacular recovery in a few short months, there' no way the voters will swap him out for Biden -- the VP during the slowest recovery in US history.

Yes, they are purposely keeping the economy in the toilet until it's too late for Trump to do anything pre-election.  Then they'll blame it all on him.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2020, 09:18:19 PM »
My opinion is the Democrats/Trump Haters can't allow the economy to bounce back before Nov.  They know that the economy is Trump's #1 highlight so far.  If he's able to start a spectacular recovery in a few short months, there' no way the voters will swap him out for Biden -- the VP during the slowest recovery in US history.

Yes, they are purposely keeping the economy in the toilet until it's too late for Trump to do anything pre-election.  Then they'll blame it all on him.

I think that's part of what's happening on the mainland, but Hawaii is a bit different.  We don't count in the Presidential election and our votes automatically go toward Biden.  Our economy is hit harder than any other and it especially hits the Government budget and unions the hardest.

hvybarrels

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2020, 10:27:56 PM »
The more fear they can instill in us the more power they have over us. Contract tracing and getting neighbors to snitch on each other is a great example of people not thinking about the long term consequences because they are literally scared out of their wits. Same with red flags. The idea is not to make the public safer, and it should be pretty clear at this point they don't give a shit about the public. Red flags are designed to make gun owners hesitate to stand up for their rights. Same thing when Ballard made that public statement about how her department would throw the book at anyone who attempts to defend themselves. The idea is to scare people into compliance with the Bloomberg/Soros agenda of social control by creating an Americanized version of the Chinese system. They push it a little more with every disaster.
Pretending to be offended does not make you a good person.

msp3

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2020, 03:29:08 PM »
I do think what the crooks in state government and the C&C are doing is deeply unconstitutional, but for practical purposes how would you deal with police at harassing you at the beach? Fascist Caldwell took great pains in their shill media event to say only beaches fronting C&C/state parks are closed, but what about shorelines where there is no park/parking? Is what's happening now at beaches akin to the initial limited C&C shutdown Caldwell did by himself or the full-on one that what-me-worry Ige joined in on after the fact?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2020, 11:13:18 PM by msp3 »

QUIETShooter

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2020, 08:30:32 PM »
If we had enemy bombers hitting US soil, troop invasion would come after that. Wonder if the invading force would utilize local police to help round up the citizens. Like how the nazis used local police against their own.

Wonder if local police would provide a list of which citizens own firearms, where they live, and what is owned. Or wouls they destroy it prior to invasion?

Good thing only hawaii keeps such a list.

Offtopic

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If the invading forces utilize our police to round up our weapons then the police becomes my enemy also.  And when they come to my house I will welcome them.  "Come, come you fackas.  I no like die alone....."
Sometimes you gotta know when to save your bullets.

TastesLikeMetal

Re: Do you believe the quarantine and lockdown to be unconstitutional?
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2020, 12:15:16 PM »
So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and of vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. And I am convinced that you will again give that support to leadership in these critical days.
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

That said, do you think if a Scientist told him "Hey Frank, if you wear a Mask you're far less likely to get Polio..."

I realize he contracted it when he was young, just keeping it light...