U know I don't get all the anger. We should all agree that Floyd was a shit individual and so was this cop. I see at as a win all around. We should be cheering. Both removed from polite society. One in the ground and one locked up for a very long time. Too bad it doesn't happen as much as alot of people think it does. Too bad this exact same thing doesn't happen a million times over a year. Shit individuals offing other shit individuals and then both disappearing from the pool. World would end up being a better place over time.

I think everyone agrees that the Cop is guilty of manslaughter/murder simply from watching the videos. 

What's out of control is using this incident to condemn all Cops everywhere.

Never let a good  crisis  "bad Cop incident" go to waste.

I think everyone agrees that the Cop is guilty of manslaughter/murder simply from watching the videos. 

What's out of control is using this incident to condemn all Cops everywhere.

Never let a good  crisis  "bad Cop incident" go to waste.

....
Exactly the same as we normal gun owners being stereotyped as bloodthirsty killers that need to be regulated....or disposed of.

I think everyone agrees that the Cop is guilty of manslaughter/murder simply from watching the videos. 

What's out of control is using this incident to condemn all Cops everywhere.

Never let a good  crisis  "bad Cop incident" go to waste.

Yes.  That was a bad cop.  What is also sad is how certain people used the incident for entirely different and selfish agendas.

I sometimes wonder how things would have gone if that bad cop was black.

....
Exactly the same as we normal gun owners being stereotyped as bloodthirsty killers that need to be regulated....or disposed of.

Stereotype is what causes problems when addressing problems.  There is good and bad people in all aspects in life.  Contrary to what many people believe, there are bad people who are not white.

Yes, Black Lives Matter.  But the truth is, ALL lives matter. People of all color suffer injustice.  I admire people of color who battle injustice, prejudice, racism, etc. by striving to become better people.  Instead of wringing their hands and crying "Oh woe is me" they grabbed the bull by the horns and rose above the hate and bigotry.

So yes.  Punish the bad people.  Address the foundation of why they behave that way and educate people and hold leaders accountable.  Small steps toward the greater good.  There might be times where it is 2 steps forward and 1 step back, but it is still steps in the right direction.  Nothing worthwhile ever came easy.

Coming from an ethnic group that was historically oppressed does not make one entitled any more than any other US citizen.  I think this is where a lot of the problems lay.  Everyone needs to move forward to a better society.  For all.  Whether it is "fair" or not.  History is full of bad decisions but it doesn't mean we have to wallow in it.

I think everyone agrees that the Cop is guilty of manslaughter/murder simply from watching the videos. 

What's out of control is using this incident to condemn all Cops everywhere.

Never let a good  crisis  "bad Cop incident" go to waste.

I think the cops are gonna get off though. I don’t think they’ll be able to prove murder in the 2nd degree or whatever they charged him with. I do think that Chauvin was an idiot and he’s definitely responsible for Floyd death, but I don’t think he murdered him. I mean if that cop seriously meant to murder him in front of all those people recording him he probably has some sort of mental illness.

Just because something is "illegal" doesn't mean it is right
or intelligent.
Democrats pass laws against everything so they have "tools".
Hammers to hit every nail they see, when
they choose to do so.

But those laws like speed limits, you dont see a need for them? You can say that there should be no limits to how fast to drive on public roads? Or the selling of illegal goods that are taxed for a reason? Nothing wrong with that? You're right when you say not all laws make sense, like red flag laws, but do you think that these are some of them? And I dont think that only dems are for these laws...

I was just asking you to explain why you feel that these certain ones aren't needed. Just trying to understand your point of view...

I think the cops are gonna get off though. I don’t think they’ll be able to prove murder in the 2nd degree or whatever they charged him with. I do think that Chauvin was an idiot and he’s definitely responsible for Floyd death, but I don’t think he murdered him. I mean if that cop seriously meant to murder him in front of all those people recording him he probably has some sort of mental illness.

The charge is everything in this case. They shouldn't have upped it to 2nd degree, imho. Now they have to prove intent to kill. That is gonna be tough to prove in a grand jury. It should be 3rd degree murder or manslaughter...

The charge is everything in this case. They shouldn't have upped it to 2nd degree, imho. Now they have to prove intent to kill. That is gonna be tough to prove in a grand jury. It should be 3rd degree murder or manslaughter...

yup
it's going to be chaos if he gets off the hook

But those laws like speed limits, you dont see a need for them? You can say that there should be no limits to how fast to drive on public roads? Or the selling of illegal goods that are taxed for a reason? Nothing wrong with that? You're right when you say not all laws make sense, like red flag laws, but do you think that these are some of them? And I dont think that only dems are for these laws...

I was just asking you to explain why you feel that these certain ones aren't needed. Just trying to understand your point of view...

First of all I'm one of those guys that worry about the safety and welfare
of people, even if the are Democrats.
Speed limits are what some engineer decides is safe for the road he designed
and to cover his ass.  My experience says you could go 10 MPH over
and be pretty safe.
My wife's car designed to run on the German Autobann.
Her car can safely do big island roads far faster than the posted limit
in some areas.
But the ass that sits with a RADAR trying to get revenue for the county
isn't making that road safer.
The driver has to decide what is safe based upon conditions.
I don't do 55 MPH in a downpour at 3 AM on a crappy road, that in good weather
on a sunny day I could easily do 75 MPH.
Speed limits should all be posted, but cops should not get involved unless
there is an obvious danger
eg a Hayabusa doing 120 MPH in a school zone with kids in the cross walk.

Taxes are robbery. pure and simple. When we need to do things to provide
a public good,  taxes will be accepted.  When taxes are passed to
satisfy a political, not public agenda, I oppose them.
I don't think the Democrat party agenda represents everybody.

I'm going to be flamed on this but I believe in simplicity.
if you ignore the God part the ten commandments are
all we need for laws.  Simple laws for simple people.
Most Democrats are VERY simple people.

I think the cops are gonna get off though. I don’t think they’ll be able to prove murder in the 2nd degree or whatever they charged him with. I do think that Chauvin was an idiot and he’s definitely responsible for Floyd death, but I don’t think he murdered him. I mean if that cop seriously meant to murder him in front of all those people recording him he probably has some sort of mental illness.

It really depends on how many lesser included charges are provided for the jury to pick from, similar to how the Deedy trials should have been handled.  If they have the choice of considering intent, training, department policy, history of excessive force and so on,  they can split hairs using those criteria to return verdicts ranging from assault to murder.

Some jurisdictions call all deaths caused by another person murder, not necessarily manslaughter.  I was surprised when I saw the charge was murder, but that might be how they do things.

I can see negligent homicide/murder and 3rd degree murder, where the death was unintentional yet occurred during the perpetration of a felony.  The felony could have been felony assault.  You never know what the prosecutors office will charge.

First of all I'm one of those guys that worry about the safety and welfare
of people, even if the are Democrats.
Speed limits are what some engineer decides is safe for the road he designed
and to cover his ass.  My experience says you could go 10 MPH over
and be pretty safe.
My wife's car designed to run on the German Autobann.
Her car can safely do big island roads far faster than the posted limit
in some areas.
But the ass that sits with a RADAR trying to get revenue for the county
isn't making that road safer.
The driver has to decide what is safe based upon conditions.
I don't do 55 MPH in a downpour at 3 AM on a crappy road, that in good weather
on a sunny day I could easily do 75 MPH.
Speed limits should all be posted, but cops should not get involved unless
there is an obvious danger
eg a Hayabusa doing 120 MPH in a school zone with kids in the cross walk.

Taxes are robbery. pure and simple. When we need to do things to provide
a public good,  taxes will be accepted.  When taxes are passed to
satisfy a political, not public agenda, I oppose them.
I don't think the Democrat party agenda represents everybody.

I'm going to be flamed on this but I believe in simplicity.
if you ignore the God part the ten commandments are
all we need for laws.  Simple laws for simple people.
Most Democrats are VERY simple people.

I won't flame you, but I will disagree in general.

Behavior allowed to run unchecked leads to gradual escalation.  if A drives 20 MPH over the posted limit, B thinks 30 over is okay.  C has a even higher opinion of his driving skills and goes 40 over. 

With every person driving X MPH over the limit, there are 100 others seeing them do that and decide they can speed as well.  Soon the limits are meaningless.  Without enforcement, NOBODY obeys the law.

If you want proof that speed limits work, look into the driving fatality numbers in the 1970s.  Due to the gas shortages (if you were born after 1980, Google it -- it happened!), the Feds mandated all federal highways have a max limit of 55.  And, if states wanted federal funds for state roads, they were also limited to 55.

Not only did driving 5-20 MPH slower on highways save huge amounts of fuel, it also reduced traffic fatalities significantly.  Now that speed limits have been gradually raised, the reverse trend is being observed.

Higher Speed Limits Led to 36,760 More Deaths, Study Shows
Safety group raises concerns as states continue to raise speed limits

By Keith Barry
April 04, 2019

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/higher-speed-limits-led-to-36760-more-deaths-study-shows/

So, saying that speed limits need to be posted, but it's up to the driver to decide if the limit should be observed, is not a supportable position to take.  Not everyone can operate a motor vehicle like Dale Earnhardt, and sharing the road means more than getting out of the way of people with faster cars.

Tim read my mind ....

Overcharging Cops In Floyd Case May FAIL And Result In More Riots

First of all I'm one of those guys that worry about the safety and welfare
of people, even if the are Democrats.
Speed limits are what some engineer decides is safe for the road he designed
and to cover his ass.  My experience says you could go 10 MPH over
and be pretty safe.
My wife's car designed to run on the German Autobann.
Her car can safely do big island roads far faster than the posted limit
in some areas.
But the ass that sits with a RADAR trying to get revenue for the county
isn't making that road safer.
The driver has to decide what is safe based upon conditions.
I don't do 55 MPH in a downpour at 3 AM on a crappy road, that in good weather
on a sunny day I could easily do 75 MPH.
Speed limits should all be posted, but cops should not get involved unless
there is an obvious danger
eg a Hayabusa doing 120 MPH in a school zone with kids in the cross walk.

Taxes are robbery. pure and simple. When we need to do things to provide
a public good,  taxes will be accepted.  When taxes are passed to
satisfy a political, not public agenda, I oppose them.
I don't think the Democrat party agenda represents everybody.

I'm going to be flamed on this but I believe in simplicity.
if you ignore the God part the ten commandments are
all we need for laws.  Simple laws for simple people.
Most Democrats are VERY simple people.

So what if someone decides to go more than 10, 15, 20, hell even 40 over. Where do you think it starts to get ridiculous? The engineers that design the roads use science and statistics to come up with the number, then err on the side of caution a little. It's not arbitrary. I think the question is whether or not the law is needed, but what the limit should be. I agree that sometimes a few miles over is okay, but there needs to be a point where the line gets drawn. The fine is supposed to deter you from doing it, with a byproduct of funding the cities needs, and yes, some pockets. On a sunny day, speed can still pose a danger. And you yourself may be a very safe driver, but can you confidently say that there aren't drivers that may not be as able?

As for taxes, without them, funding for many crucial departments would all fall short of functioning budget. I agree that distribution and tracking need reform. But we cannot take the good without the bad. Thats why we vote. Tax sucks, but it's a necessity. I have never heard of a realistic way to fit the bill if taxes are cancelled. If you can enlighten me, I'm on your side, because I dont like taxes either. But like I said, I feel it's a necessity...

I've been to Germany a few times, my brother was stationed there way back. Even the Autobahn has a speed limit in some parts... but I have severely digressed. And now....

In the Floyd case, they left the other charges and added 2nd degree murder.
If it goes to trial, the jury will be able to select one of the three.  That is where the
prosecutors here screwed up in the Deedy case in the first trial.  They did not
put manslaughter as one of the choices or even aggravated assault.  If they
wanted to get a conviction, they needed to give the jury more choices than just
murder.  I don't think the two rookie cops, only their 4th day on the job, will or should
even go to trial.  They were being trained by the other two and one of the rookies
wanted to turn him on his side but was told no by his training officer, Chauvin.

In the Floyd case, they left the other charges and added 2nd degree murder.
If it goes to trial, the jury will be able to select one of the three.  That is where the
prosecutors here screwed up in the Deedy case in the first trial.  They did not
put manslaughter as one of the choices or even aggravated assault.  If they
wanted to get a conviction, they needed to give the jury more choices than just
murder.  I don't think the two rookie cops, only their 4th day on the job, will or should
even go to trial.  They were being trained by the other two and one of the rookies
wanted to turn him on his side but was told no by his training officer, Chauvin.

If what I saw is true, at least one of the rookies asked Chauvin, a 19-year veteran Cop, if they should stop applying force to Floyd after he stopped responding.  He told them to not stop.. 

Rookies being given too much latitude to question orders before they have any field experience can be more of a liability -- to the public and to his fellow officers -- than we'd be okay with.

In this particular case, the results prove the rookie had the better judgement, but was restrained from acting by his training and deference to his supervisor.  That ought to be way up on the prosecutor's reasons for not charging him with a crime.

so they want police to be defunded and replaced...

If what I saw is true, at least one of the rookies asked Chauvin, a 19-year veteran Cop, if they should stop applying force to Floyd after he stopped responding.  He told them to not stop.. 

One has to wonder how many other veteran Chauvin's are on the rosters of other police departments all over the US?

Rookies being given too much latitude to question orders before they have any field experience can be more of a liability -- to the public and to his fellow officers -- than we'd be okay with.

So who are you referring to as "we"?

In this particular case, the results prove the rookie had the better judgement, but was restrained from acting by his training and deference to his supervisor.

This incident further provides evidence why no one can naively trust cops.

One has to wonder how many other veteran Chauvin's are on the rosters of other police departments all over the US?


So who are you referring to as "we"?



This incident further provides evidence why no one can naively trust cops.

You really are a one trick pony, huh?  Nothing to add -- just same old rhetorical, Cop-hating, regurgitated mess.

If you don't know the answer to your own rhetorical questions, then it's better to not pose them to others.  There's no way to answer how many other 19 year veteran Cops would have done what Chauvin did/failed to do.  Hypothetically, what if 90% of them would have listened to the rookie and checked his own actions before Floyd stopped breathing?  Would that even be a consideration in your mind, or does it even compute for you?

 Are you advocating for all rookie Cops to go out into the field immediately after graduation without any supervision?  If not, then YOU are part of WE.

WRONG.  The incident provides evidence of THE INCIDENT.  Please explain for us "Cop supporters" how this ONE SITUATION with THESE SPECIFIC COPS and this ONE SPECIFIC PERP in any way, shape or form translates into a blanket condemnation of all Cops everywhere and in every situation.

You truly are a predictable broken record.

Same can be said about the protesters. Under this unreasonable thinking that means all the protesters are killers. Some people say that just because they haven't all shown it, they all possess the potential to do so. So, in turn, you must think that all protesters at some point will kill someone. Therefore don't trust all of them. They're all the same...

I’m not a fan of the riots at all.

But this video from Professor Live helped me understand the black protest a bit better, at least from the black perspective about racial profiling by police.