Fear is how the Dems get elected.  The pandemic was a crisis handed to them on a silver platter, and they are using it to give themselves unconstitutional powers they could not have dreamed of taking without such a "terrorizing situation."

I'm pretty sure republicans play that game too if not more.  Look at what 911 got us.  Unending war. Patriot act.   etc

The issue that the other countries have is they do not have the freedoms that the USA does.  You mentioned it above,  that's the hard balancing act.  Use 2a as a perfect example.  Can we ban "assault rifles", mags over 10rds all for the greater good of the nation?

For me, I would treat Chyna-virus like the 2a.  If the Bill of Rights/Constitution.  I also believe under the 2a, people should be allowed to own an Abrams (per Jo). Aw shit, I just derailed the topic. 

But owning assault rifles doesn't necessarily risk others. Spreading covid does, much like shooting innocent people does.  But having covid in your own house alone doesn't.   We make shooting innocent people illegal, shouldn't we make spreading covid illegal too?  Your free to do what you want if it don't limit the freedoms of others.  Owning a tank doesn't hurt anyone till you try to hurt someone.

It really is a scary gray area, where do you draw the lines between your freedom and your ability to limit others.

Still, it's because of their economic, welfare, and socialized medical services that Sweden can do the things that we can't.

Imagine Hitler  Trump dictating that all states must comply with federal mandates saying where supplies are needed, who is allowed masks from our limited stock, and what businesses are to be locked down.

The governors would be in court so fast, .....

If we are talking only about Hawaii, that's a different scope of problems.  Island.  Travel.  Supplies.  Economic damage.

The genius of our federal gov is that they make the individual businesses who rely on capitalism dictate that exact thing.  That way we think they're (government) not in control.  No 3M N95 for sale to the public, instead 3m is selling only to first responder and hospital type.  Amazon, Lowes, 3M website, Home Depot, all places you could previously bought any N95 are not for sale.

But owning assault rifles doesn't necessarily risk others. Spreading covid does, much like shooting innocent people does.  But having covid in your own house alone doesn't.   We make shooting innocent people illegal, shouldn't we make spreading covid illegal too? Your free to do what you want if it don't limit the freedoms of others.  Owning a tank doesn't hurt anyone till you try to hurt someone.

It really is a scary gray area, where do you draw the lines between your freedom and your ability to limit others.

Ok. I’ll play along. Are you going to charge someone who is documented as infecting others? Simply for being a transmitter of the disease?

I think FIge is an idiot and inept leader. That said, the stuff that Green was doing was worse. Second guessing in public, going behind backs, the “well, if I was Gov” type statements while not even filling his own “edicts”. That was 

But owning assault rifles doesn't necessarily risk others. Spreading covid does, much like shooting innocent people does.  But having covid in your own house alone doesn't.   We make shooting innocent people illegal, shouldn't we make spreading covid illegal too?  Your free to do what you want if it don't limit the freedoms of others.  Owning a tank doesn't hurt anyone till you try to hurt someone.

It really is a scary gray area, where do you draw the lines between your freedom and your ability to limit others.

Have you not watched the news or any of our state's government officials?  The "assault weapon" is a huge risk to others.  1 side (DNC) plays this card after every active shooting.  Never blame the shooters either, but blame the rifle used.  Followed by assault weapons bans.  And also having a magazine over 10 rds is a huge risk to others as well.  Per Ballard, the "2 badge numbers on her chest" is the reason for such a law (Diamond Head Shooting).  Even though a big game rifle was used, which most likely doesn't hold more than 10rds in a detachable magazine.

In CA, it used to be illegal to knowingly give someone else HIV.  Last year they now made it legal to do so.  Key word is "knowingly". 

I think FIge is an idiot and inept leader. That said, the stuff that Green was doing was worse. Second guessing in public, going behind backs, the “well, if I was Gov” type statements while not even filling his own “edicts”. That was 

Don't forget Green not wearing his mask correctly on a public sidewalk.

Don't forget Green not wearing his mask correctly on a public sidewalk.

Haha. Ya. I remember you posting that. I had seen him doing that many times early on. He lives, or at least has a place near where I live. I would see him and his wife out for walks in the afternoon and evenings. He would be on TV earlier in the day preaching about masks, have to use when outside exercising, etc. Well, he obviously wasn’t. And I saw this many times.

I'm pretty sure republicans play that game too if not more.  Look at what 911 got us.  Unending war. Patriot act.   etc

"I'm pretty sure?" 

That's your basis for this opinion?

If I recall, I said, "Fear is how Dems get elected."  I never said ONLY Dems, did I?

Stop being Mr. "Not just Dems".  The truth is the truth.  Dems have few, if any, policy positions that withstand public scrutiny beyond social issues.  It's why they revert to race, LGBTQ, gender and all the other identitiy politics "weapons" they have found success in.  Fear is just part of that array of lies. 

Police are NOT executing black, unarmed people everyday in large numbers and without accountability.  If that were true, Planned Parenthood would have ceased operations long ago.

Ok. I’ll play along. Are you going to charge someone who is documented as infecting others? Simply for being a transmitter of the disease?

If they did so purposely or against reason, yes.  Like an HIV person refusing to use condoms.  Should be charged for a crime up to attempted murder.

If they did so purposely or against reason, yes.  Like an HIV person refusing to use condoms.  Should be charged for a crime up to attempted murder.

Ok. How are you going to prove intent?

Or are you going to the “wanton endangerment” level?

"I'm pretty sure?" 

That's your basis for this opinion?

If I recall, I said, "Fear is how Dems get elected."  I never said ONLY Dems, did I?

Stop being Mr. "Not just Dems".  The truth is the truth.  Dems have few, if any, policy positions that withstand public scrutiny beyond social issues.  It's why they revert to race, LGBTQ, gender and all the other identitiy politics "weapons" they have found success in.  Fear is just part of that array of lies. 

Police are NOT executing black, unarmed people everyday in large numbers and without accountability.  If that were true, Planned Parenthood would have ceased operations long ago.

You are right both sides use fear.

But owning assault rifles doesn't necessarily risk others.

since you want to talk about another issue not related to COVID these people think that owning ANY gun is dangerous
https://www.thegardenisland.com/2018/02/16/hawaii-news/some-call-for-stricter-laws-ban-on-assault-weapons/

“The tragedy in Parkland is the latest reminder that Congress must advance gun violence prevention legislation, beginning with a ban on assault weapons and the significant expansion of background checks and waiting periods for potential buyers,” said U.S. Rep. Colleen Hanabusa. “It does not make sense to make military-grade weaponry available to civilians.”

So I'm willing to bet that asking Hanabusa in public about owning an "assault rifle" (BTW define what is an assault rifle) is dangerous to the general public - she would answer YES IT IS DANGEROUS TO OWN AN ASSAULT RIFLE

If they did so purposely or against reason, yes.  Like an HIV person refusing to use condoms.  Should be charged for a crime up to attempted murder.

Yep. Let's sue the school district and all the students who probably gave me chicken pox, the flu, and ukus.

How about SUING CHINA for giving us this pan Pacific Pandemic?
We seem to forget while playing the blame game of Ige, Trump and the like that China spread this virus.

Have you not watched the news or any of our state's government officials?  The "assault weapon" is a huge risk to others.  1 side (DNC) plays this card after every active shooting.  Never blame the shooters either, but blame the rifle used.  Followed by assault weapons bans.  And also having a magazine over 10 rds is a huge risk to others as well.  Per Ballard, the "2 badge numbers on her chest" is the reason for such a law (Diamond Head Shooting).  Even though a big game rifle was used, which most likely doesn't hold more than 10rds in a detachable magazine.

In CA, it used to be illegal to knowingly give someone else HIV.  Last year they now made it legal to do so.  Key word is "knowingly".

Does science back up the fact that 11 bullets is so much worse than 10?  Its a gray area of "for the greater good".  Theres an infinite of things you can argue for both sides.  Where do you draw the line is the hardest decision.  Like anti vaxers etc. 

Wait CA has it legal for someone to knowing spread HIV?  That's fucking stupid.  If you spread HIV knowingly you should be charged with attempted murder.

Yep. Let's sue the school district and all the students who probably gave me chicken pox, the flu, and ukus.

How about SUING CHINA for giving us this pan Pacific Pandemic?
We seem to forget while playing the blame game of Ige, Trump and the like that China spread this virus.

Knowing or maliciously is different.   It should be common sense if you are sick don't try spread it.  There is a level of self responsibility.  Just like drunk driving. 

Yep. Let's sue the school district and all the students who probably gave me chicken pox, the flu, and ukus.

How about SUING CHINA for giving us this pan Pacific Pandemic?
We seem to forget while playing the blame game of Ige, Trump and the like that China spread this virus.

Can COVID patients/family of deceased sue Pelosi for saying, "Come on down to China Town!" ??

This was one month after Trump stopped air travel from China.

Knowing or maliciously is different.   It should be common sense if you are sick don't try spread it.  There is a level of self responsibility.  Just like drunk driving.

:hmm:

Does science back up the fact that 11 bullets is so much worse than 10?  Its a gray area of "for the greater good".  Theres an infinite of things you can argue for both sides.  Where do you draw the line is the hardest decision.  Like anti vaxers etc. 

Wait CA has it legal for someone to knowing spread HIV?  That's fucking stupid.  If you spread HIV knowingly you should be charged with attempted murder.

Knowingly having HIV while having unprotected sex, and without informing your partner, used to be a felony.

The lawmakers changed it to a misdemeanor.  This was reported almost exactly 3 years ago.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/new-california-law-reduces-penalty-knowingly-exposing-someone-hiv-n809416

since you want to talk about another issue not related to COVID these people think that owning ANY gun is dangerous
https://www.thegardenisland.com/2018/02/16/hawaii-news/some-call-for-stricter-laws-ban-on-assault-weapons/

“The tragedy in Parkland is the latest reminder that Congress must advance gun violence prevention legislation, beginning with a ban on assault weapons and the significant expansion of background checks and waiting periods for potential buyers,” said U.S. Rep. Colleen Hanabusa. “It does not make sense to make military-grade weaponry available to civilians.”

So I'm willing to bet that asking Hanabusa in public about owning an "assault rifle" (BTW define what is an assault rifle) is dangerous to the general public - she would answer YES IT IS DANGEROUS TO OWN AN ASSAULT RIFLE

Hmm it might come down to risk.  Vast majority of gun owners do not shoot up schools.  But a vast majority of covid people would spread covid if there were no restrictions.   I honestly am not sure how to draw the line here.  They seem to be opposing sides.