I don't agree with your opinion.

That's fine this is America, we are entitled to our own opinions.  I won't force mine on you and you shouldn't on me.  That's mainly what I am advocating.

This site has become infested with three clowns that clearly are here to argue.   For political animosity, spite, subterfuge, or to try and bolster self esteem by taking on those with some knowledge.

So if someone has a different opinion that you, they are automatically clowns?  You know there are plenty of gun owners with different opinions...casting them away because they don't believe the same things is a quick way to alienate gun owners and lose your rights.   We are already endangered lets work together and not against. 

Imagine if liberals don't hate guns.  Then both parties will support our 2nd amendment rights.  If you keep making it divisive it will always be a political issue.  I know democrats that own guns.  I am not saying convert, but keep an open mind.  Gun rights should not be a party issue.  If you keep forcing people to choose abortion or 2a rights, you will lose voters.  Independent voters like myself that don't agree with many republican party policies or democrats are the last thing stopping you guys losing your rights.  If some lesbian has to choose between the right of getting a gun or married,  they probably going to choose the later and gun rights loses another vote.  If republicans just stop trying to police peoples their party would be much more popular.

I agree with robtmc.
There's arguments all over the board - not just off topic or political. Some are non sense.
Some people post in off topic or political sub forums more than any other. So if you are looking for a comprehensive debate a more appropriate forum would be the most prudent. i.e. Planned Parenthood forum or a social media group. The more you dive into off topic / political arguments the more you divide and muddy the topic of 2a rights as you implied. As you can see a lot of 2a topics become derailed.
Don't care if you are LGBTZ, supports abortion etc. until you make it an issue as a gun owner or supporter of 2a.

This site has become infested with three clowns that clearly are here to argue.   For political animosity, spite, subterfuge, or to try and bolster self esteem by taking on those with some knowledge.

It’s like watching three retarded Twitter bots reading from their script trying to sell each other garbage off Amazon.

The closest analogy I could come up with would be a man in a medical situation where another person's life depending on their own sacrifice. Imagine you were on a hospital bed giving a transfusion to another person who was losing blood. Their life directly depends on you staying there to provide blood. Should you have the freedom to get up from the bed and leave even if it means the man in need of the blood transfusion would die? Or is he a victim being deprived of the right to life? Now switch positions, instead of the blood donor you are the doctor and the patient says they are leaving. Do you strap the donor down to save the life of the donee?

The question is, is said transfusion being forced upon?  What if the person needing blood is a convicted rapist and was shot while raping a woman.  I would not freely sit there to donate my blood.  But then again, I am for capital punishment, so to each their own.

I agree with robtmc.
There's arguments all over the board - not just off topic or political. Some are non sense.
Some people post in off topic or political sub forums more than any other. So if you are looking for a comprehensive debate a more appropriate forum would be the most prudent. i.e. Planned Parenthood forum or a social media group. The more you dive into off topic / political arguments the more you divide and muddy the topic of 2a rights as you implied. As you can see a lot of 2a topics become derailed.
Don't care if you are LGBTZ, supports abortion etc. until you make it an issue as a gun owner or supporter of 2a.

I lobby democrats also, trying to get them to see 2a rights and small government and immigration.  Same way I try and get you guys to accept SOME of their issues which i feel both sides should agree on.  Trying to work both sides to expand gun rights and freedom.   Just trying to expand gun rights for all and hopefully lessen this partisan divide.  We are all American in the end.

As a person in the middle of both parties I see both sides.  There's no reason why we all can't get along.  And everyone can support gun rights.  Fuck political parties.

Most of us here are here for the #1 purpose of defending our gun rights.  If you’re not here to support and defend the 2a, then this is the wrong forum.

We can discuss and agree to disagree about other topics.  We created this Political Discussion section to keep this kind of heated topics from going elsewhere on the forum.

Most of us here are here for the #1 purpose of defending our gun rights.  If you’re not here to support and defend the 2a, then this is the wrong forum.

We can discuss and agree to disagree about other topics.  We created this Political Discussion section to keep this kind of heated topics from going elsewhere on the forum.

Isn't the best way to defend gun rights by adding more people to support it?  Meaning convincing democrats and independents?  To do so you need to meet a little half way.  You give them abortion, they give you guns.  You link both to freedom and freewill. That destroys their talking points.  I will do my best to keep these topics off other treads. 

Democrats nor republicans are the majority in the nation. Both have to work together.

In Hawaii Democrats ARE the majority.  That means double so you need to work with them to keep your rights.  Pick your fights.  Tell them if they really support lgbt and abortion rights why dont they support the right to choose to own a gun.  Call them out on the hypocrisy. But if you are also a hypocrite you cant do that. 

Isn't the best way to defend gun rights by adding more people to support it?  Meaning convincing democrats and independents?  To do so you need to meet a little half way.  You give them abortion, they give you guns.  You link both to freedom and freewill. That destroys their talking points.  I will do my best to keep these topics off other treads. 

Democrats nor republicans are the majority in the nation. Both have to work together.

In Hawaii Democrats ARE the majority.  That means double so you need to work with them to keep your rights.  Pick your fights.  Tell them if they really support lgbt and abortion rights why dont they support the right to choose to own a gun.  Call them out on the hypocrisy. But if you are also a hypocrite you cant do that.

See, this is where you take the hint and say “my bad”. He’s not trying to debate with you. But you’re not hearing it because you’re so stuck on proving your strong opinions. Listen for just a bit. 

  You give them abortion, they give you guns.  You link both to freedom and freewill.

Rights are not to be bargained with.    Because then they will argue, why does 1 need an "assault rifle"?  I don't need a need, I have 1 because I can.  Once you are required to have a need for something, it's no longer a right, but permission.

You know that's really rare right? Most abortions occur early on....mostly only ones that happen late are because they find defects or something.  Stop twisting facts to gain sympathy.

You know that instances of rape, incest and risk to the mother's life are also rare, right?

Not sure how that's relevant, put I can play your game.

Rights are not to be bargained with.    Because then they will argue, why does 1 need an "assault rifle"?  I don't need a need, I have 1 because I can.  Once you are required to have a need for something, it's no longer a right, but permission.

You have a right to control your own body and get an abortion. Just like you have the right to own firearms all of them.  Tell then if they start limiting what kind of guns then they should start limiting what kind of abortions are allowed. Should shut that topic down quick.

You have a right to control your own body and get an abortion. Just like you have the right to own firearms all of them.  Tell then if they start limiting what kind of guns then they should start limiting what kind of abortions are allowed. Should shut that topic down quick.

Is there a reason you have to reply to every single post, most often just regurgitating the same points you've already posted over and over and over again?

Just wondering.  I already know, but would like to see you state it....

You know that instances of rape, incest and risk to the mother's life are also rare, right?

Not sure how that's relevant, put I can play your game.

Not sure how that relevant. Most abortions are early and when the fetus is barely formed.  Even those of the causes you mentioned.   You generally don't just wait for no reason.  Unless it's development issues then you find that out late.   You don't tend legislate the few. Just like you shouldn't ban guns cause one wacko shoots up a school. 

Is there a reason you have to reply to every single post, most often just regurgitating the same points you've already posted over and over and over again?

Just wondering.  I already know, but would like to see you state it....

I'm fairly consistent in my views   

You have a right to control your own body and get an abortion. Just like you have the right to own firearms all of them.  Tell then if they start limiting what kind of guns then they should start limiting what kind of abortions are allowed. Should shut that topic down quick.

What part of the Bill of Rights/Constitution state that?  This is a serious question.  I never read the entire constitution nor amendments after the 15th or so.I've skimmed some of it like 1a, 4a, 14a, 5a, none mentioned abortion or body control.

For firearms, specifically, it's the 2nd amendment.

You have a right to control your own body and get an abortion. Just like you have the right to own firearms all of them.  Tell then if they start limiting what kind of guns then they should start limiting what kind of abortions are allowed. Should shut that topic down quick.

That's why you are not garnering much positive feedback. You are tangling 2 very contentious issues. We have a hard time with the 2a argument as it is and your argument complicates the matter further.

What part of the Bill of Rights/Constitution state that?  This is a serious question.  I never read the entire constitution nor amendments after the 15th or so.I've skimmed some of it like 1a, 4a, 14a, 5a, none mentioned abortion or body control.

For firearms, specifically, it's the 2nd amendment.

14th under privacy  which includes the government not invading your privacy of what you do with your own body.   Back when the Constitution was being written.  Nothing like today was possible, it was medically very ancient. 

14th under privacy  which includes the government not invading your privacy of what you do with your own body.   Back when the Constitution was being written.  Nothing like today was possible, it was medically very ancient.

is suicide legal?

is suicide legal?

I belive so.  I'm pretty sure we have right to die here or something.
 Or atleast if it isn't,  it should be. 

I belive so.  I'm pretty sure we have right to die here or something.
 Or atleast if it isn't,  it should be.

suicide is not legal in Hawaii. You will be arrested for attempting or stating that you will harm yourself in front of a first responder.