So say you were to be born with only 1 lung which would limit your athletic abilities and give you breathing problems later. Would you not want the decision to be born or not? Would you rather someone else determine what your life would be worth based on how much difficulty you may have in life? I think I would rather be the one who decides whether my life is to difficult to keep on living.

Hmm I would probably choose not to be born.  I know its one of those gotcha questions but, I developed my personality and thoughts over time.  If I was aborted I would never know, have no regrets and have no suffering.  Its one of those questions if you never existed would you regret not existing?

So, why is that not a routine procedure for HIV prevention for the general population?

Because we can't gene edit like that yet?  People like you scream that we are playing god and prevent science from fixing things like that. 

Though I do have hopes that crispr might provide hope to gene edit people who are already living in addition to editing embryos.

Hmm I would probably choose not to be born.  I know its one of those gotcha questions but, I developed my personality and thoughts over time.  If I was aborted I would never know, have no regrets and have no suffering.  Its one of those questions if you never existed would you regret not existing?

so you are saying a fetus is sentient?

so you are saying a fetus is sentient?

Not in the slightest.  If you read past that one sentence you would understand. The entire point of the reply is that I had no sentience, so I  never existed so I couldn't regret not existing...

Because we can't gene edit like that yet?  People like you scream that we are playing god and prevent science from fixing things like that. 

Though I do have hopes that crispr might provide hope to gene edit people who are already living in addition to editing embryos.

Try again.  Maybe read your own damn source??

The mutation is not completely fool proof. Cases of homozygous carriers that have become
infected with HIV have been reported. These few exceptions have dissuaded health officials
from fully supporting genetic tests over ethical concerns. It would not be wise for those with
the mutation to assume that they can lead a dangerous lifestyle and remain healthy.

Understanding how and why certain people are resistant to HIV/AIDS with the help of CCR5-32
Delta will hopefully lead to new and highly successful treatments in our lifetime.

Try again.  Maybe read your own damn source??

I posted that because of facts?  Not ethics.  Ethics are personal feelings.  I don't think its unethical.  Technically there is no reason if you are immune to do whatever you want with that info.

Not in the slightest.  If you read past that one sentence you would understand. The entire point of the reply is that I had no sentience, so I  never existed so I couldn't regret not existing...

YOU said you would CHOOSE not to be born.

Choice requires intelligence and consciousness.

I posted that because of facts?  Not ethics.  Ethics are personal feelings.  I don't think its unethical.  Technically there is no reason if you are immune to do whatever you want with that info.

I asked a question.  The answer was in the article.  You obviously didn't read it.

Stop.  Just stop.

I asked a question.  The answer was in the article.  You obviously didn't read it.

Stop.  Just stop.

The authors personal opinion was that it was not ethical not sure why you automatically believe it applies to all opinions...

YOU said you would CHOOSE not to be born.

Choice requires intelligence and consciousness.

That's not even the question that was asked...

Would you not want the decision to be born or not? Would you rather someone else determine what your life would  be worth based on how much difficulty you may have in life?

How's this because the whole point is the mother choosing I would want my mother to choose for me to not exist.  Everything else applies that I would have no regret because I wouldn't even be aware that I wasn't going to exist.

If I am the one choosing its a paradox....the same as going into the past and killing your grandpa.   

Hmm I would probably choose not to be born.  I know its one of those gotcha questions but, I developed my personality and thoughts over time.  If I was aborted I would never know, have no regrets and have no suffering.  Its one of those questions if you never existed would you regret not existing?

Personally, even if my outlook on life were that bad, I would rather make the choice myself.

You are absolutely correct, if you were aborted you would never know, have no regrets, no suffering. But say your parents chose to end your life when you were 6 months old, the same would hold true because you had no concept of existing or value or suffering.

Personally, even if my outlook on life were that bad, I would rather make the choice myself.

You are absolutely correct, if you were aborted you would never know, have no regrets, no suffering. But say your parents chose to end your life when you were 6 months old, the same would hold true because you had no concept of existing or value or suffering.

Since I don't know exactly when I would have sentience 6 months is plausible that I wouldn't know.  Even at that point if I had sentience I would have no life knowledge or enough personality to regret or like you said have no concept of existing or value or suffering.

YOU said you would CHOOSE not to be born.
Choice requires intelligence and consciousness.

Come on Flapp. What are you MSM? Taking things out of context and yelling about them with the edited text? (Edited meaning one line of a Multi post discussion)

At least Mac was being facetious. (I think)

Not in the slightest.  If you read past that one sentence you would understand. The entire point of the reply is that I had no sentience, so I  never existed so I couldn't regret not existing...

I’m starting to think about this. (Yes Snowflapp, I do think sometimes. Seems like more than you.)

So in the modern era, we’re only alive because of the choice of our Mother ? Literally.
I Gotta ponder that.

I think all life strives to be alive ( with a few exceptions based on stage and frame of mind)
Should it be life or sentience or a heart beat indicating central nervous development?
One definite, the other two variable for each life and arguably arbitrary.

Based on above
Why would rape or incest matter ?

What if the parents can’t economically cover the cost of severe defect ?
Or perhaps worse, can’t deal with it mentally/emotionally in the raising of a disabled child.
What happens to the disabled child?

But shouldn’t/should a Woman have a choice ?

I Gotta ponder those too.

Since I don't know exactly when I would have sentience 6 months is plausible that I wouldn't know.  Even at that point if I had sentience I would have no life knowledge or enough personality to regret or like you said have no concept of existing or value or suffering.

What I am trying to show is the slippery slope to the logic of allowing others to determine our life value and end it based on such determinations. If a disability is a justification to end it before birth, why not after birth? If I take the logic to the extreme I could justify going around killing drug users because the society would be better off without them.

And I wasn't asking about remorse or regret, obviously we can never experience that if we never reach the capacity to understand such things. I was posing a moral question of whether you would want the choice or you would be fine with having it made for you

What I am trying to show is the slippery slope to the logic of allowing others to determine our life value and end it based on such determinations. If a disability is a justification to end it before birth, why not after birth? If I take the logic to the extreme I could justify going around killing drug users because the society would be better off without them.

And I wasn't asking about remorse or regret, obviously we can never experience that if we never reach the capacity to understand such things. I was posing a moral question of whether you would want the choice or you would be fine with having it made for you

Hmmm I think of it as more of a cliff,  you don't have to cross the line.  Because before birth is talking about something that doesn't exist,  as long as we keep the line based on sentient existence we don't have a slippery slope.

I feel that because I don't exist I don't have a choice.  When I become sentient and gain existence that's when choices can be made by myself.  But until then, not.

Do I exist when:
 I’m alive and growing
 or when I am sentient
 or when i can learn to roll over
 or at the age of memory....?

If I feel pain but can have no memory of it because I was too young did I feel pain?

Also, there is no test for sentience which varies in every fetus

Do I exist when:
 I’m alive and growing
 or when I am sentient
 or when i can learn to roll over
 or at the age of memory....?

If I feel pain but can have no memory of it because I was too young did I feel pain?

Also, there is no test for sentience which varies in every fetus.

I think "human life"  begins at sentience.  The very start,  where it become more unethical to abort.  You may not remember it but you were able to feel and understand it to a point.  If a tree in a forest falls but no one hears it, did it fall?  <-- yes it did. 

As for a test, yes there no not exact test or time,  but a general understanding when it occurs.

before birth is talking about something that doesn't exist.

So a growing fetus doesn’t exist ? 
Sentient or not.

Having been through three, that bean turns into a human pretty darn quick. Sonograms are nuts. .

Does a Woman or Parents have a Right to choose ?
That’s a question I pose to the entire forum.

So a growing fetus doesn’t exist ? 
Sentient or not.

Having been through three, that bean turns into a human pretty darn quick. Sonograms are nuts. .

Does a Woman or Parents have a Right to choose ?
That’s a question I pose to the entire forum.

Doesn't exist as in being a human, sorry if I'm not explaining it well enough.  Its a bunch of cells until, its not.  But for me personally even when its human the mother or parents have a certain degree of choice still. 

Hmmm I think of it as more of a cliff,  you don't have to cross the line.  Because before birth is talking about something that doesn't exist,  as long as we keep the line based on sentient existence we don't have a slippery slope.

I feel that because I don't exist I don't have a choice.  When I become sentient and gain existence that's when choices can be made by myself.  But until then, not.

It is drawing a line and drawing one that makes sense at some emotional level. The baby is visible, you can see it move and cry, a connection is formed, it becomes more tangible. But in the end it is still a rather arbitrary line to draw. There is little to no difference between a baby just born and a baby a day before being born, yet one should be ok to kill and the other shouldn't?