theres things in those EO and proclamations that have nothing to do with the pandemic i.e. open records

theres things in those EO and proclamations that have nothing to do with the pandemic i.e. open records

I was getting to that with the Jenius. But yeah...

Just like all the fine print in the relief packages.

Not sure?  Or you don't know? 

Hint, it doesn't really matter.  The point is that select few imposed laws or rules based on their "own" justification, that impacts rights of individuals. 

Are the laws or EOs constitutional?  Maybe, maybe not.  The point is that laws were passed and are in effect until overturned.  Even worse with EOs as they aren't necessarily done "by committee". 

Still don't see the connection? 

In this case, I'm putting the spotlight on EOs, be it by a Mayor or Gov.  Same thing.

Ok if you are going in that direction,  yes I do agree with you.  But its not something that is possible to be fixed.   That's just how a Government works.  If they had no power to make laws or rules based on their own justifications then there would be no government.  If its against the constitution, then the courts can over ride.  Even pro 2a laws would fall under that train of thought.   It was made someone with "their own justifications".   Without EO's government would be unable to react to emergencies.  Imagine if China attacked and in order to defend ourselves congress had to pass a law. Or if a Hurricane was approaching and they had to pass a law.   Covid is an emergency.  Just like a Hurricane, in order to save lives certain things must be done to uphold public safety and survival.  Government works for the publics best interest.

Ok if you are going in that direction,  yes I do agree with you.  But its not something that is possible to be fixed.   That's just how a Government works.  If they had no power to make laws or rules based on their own justifications then there would be no government.  If its against the constitution, then the courts can over ride.  Even pro 2a laws would fall under that train of thought.   It was made someone with "their own justifications".   Without EO's government would be unable to react to emergencies.  Imagine if China attacked and in order to defend ourselves congress had to pass a law. Or if a Hurricane was approaching and they had to pass a law.   Covid is an emergency.  Just like a Hurricane, in order to save lives certain things must be done to uphold public safety and survival.  Government works for the publics best interest.

Oh
My
Effing
God

I'll just stop that I am HOPING you realize the correlation (not necessarily connection) to 2a.  Beyond that, you really have to wake up. . .

Oh
My
Effing
God

I'll just stop that I am HOPING you realize the correlation (not necessarily connection) to 2a.  Beyond that, you really have to wake up. . .

That’s exactly why I don’t want to even have a casual conversation with him. It’s maddening because there is no logic to what he says.

That’s exactly why I don’t want to even have a casual conversation with him. It’s maddening because there is no logic to what he says.

Ooh look! A puppy!

OMFG, The Director of Public Health here in AZ was just on the TV encouraging everyone to turn in businesses and individuals. She just bragged about shutting down over 2000 businesses. What a POS. 

These low IQ fascist "public servants" remind me of the Boys Vice-Principal and some of the PE teachers in high school. They were dimwits who had nothing in real life, and because of their inferiority complexes they were mentally ill and they took the opportunity to be in positions of power over teenage students to act out their power fantasies and demean and intimidate students for no real reason, other than they could and they could get away with it. They were sick individuals. I vividly remember some encounters to this day and I'm still enraged that they were allowed to treat students the way they did without any repercussions at all. Sick people. Sick system. Sick. Same with these dimwit bureaucrats now exercising arbitrary and capricious power over ordinary citizens with no rational, logical, or evidence-based justifications at all. Fuck them. Fuck them all. What's it gonna take for a significant portion of the population to stand up and say "NO!!"? 

These low IQ fascist "public servants" remind me of the Boys Vice-Principal and some of the PE teachers in high school. They were dimwits who had nothing in real life, and because of their inferiority complexes they were mentally ill and they took the opportunity to be in positions of power over teenage students to act out their power fantasies and demean and intimidate students for no real reason, other than they could and they could get away with it. They were sick individuals. I vividly remember some encounters to this day and I'm still enraged that they were allowed to treat students the way they did without any repercussions at all. Sick people. Sick system. Sick. Same with these dimwit bureaucrats now exercising arbitrary and capricious power over ordinary citizens with no rational, logical, or evidence-based justifications at all. Fuck them. Fuck them all. What's it gonna take for a significant portion of the population to stand up and say "NO!!"? 

The problem for me is almost half the population (And a few on this board) has the herd mentality and are mask Karens. They say safety is the most important thing but they don’t have the brains nor the foresight (Nor do they care) to ask what the consequences of their actions will be. They think it is for the greater good. But again, they neither have the foresight nor the brains to realize they are causing more damage to the entire society and probably more deaths because they just don’t care about society as a whole. They only care about themselves and how good they make themselves feel by feeling morally superior by forcing people into their way of thinking and their herd mentality. They don’t see the bigger picture either because of low IQ or closed mindedness or just because burying their heads in the sand and that is the lazy thing to do. And we all know it is natural for the mental giants of our society to be lazy.

All of the above.  But you don't have to have Hawaii have the lawsuit for the courts to decide. If the supreme court rules it effects the whole nation.

Not HI as in the state. A resident of HI files first. Then if neither side accepts judgement, then 9th circuit. Then scotus if scotus takes the case.

Right now young vs. HI is in the 9th.

And regarding dui, its not protected in the constitution. Like 1a, freedom to peacefully assemble is.  Read my past post about alcohol and the amendments.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

https://www.kitv.com/story/42996817/who-updates-face-mask-guidelines

It says people 12 and older should wear masks both indoors and outdoors in situations where three feet of distance between others can't be maintained.

Officials say even when used properly, masks aren't enough on their own. People need to sanitize their hands, physical distance, and avoid touching their face to prevent the virus from spreading.

People at high risk for complications should wear medical masks according to WHO.


with mandated face masks policies...how many times does the general public touch their face with their unsanitary hands?

https://www.kitv.com/story/42996817/who-updates-face-mask-guidelines

It says people 12 and older should wear masks both indoors and outdoors in situations where three feet of distance between others can't be maintained.

Officials say even when used properly, masks aren't enough on their own. People need to sanitize their hands, physical distance, and avoid touching their face to prevent the virus from spreading.

People at high risk for complications should wear medical masks according to WHO.


with mandated face masks policies...how many times does the general public touch their face with their unsanitary hands?

Disposable masks are supposed to be disposed of after two hours of wearing. "Surgical masks" (having 12-14 layers of material) are supposed to be changed every two hours and washed daily in a water temperature of at least 140 degrees. The mask is supposed to be put on and removed by only touching the ear-bands, not the mask itself, and then placed in a sanitized bag for disposal or later washing. Never touch the mask, as that contaminates it, and never touch your face as that contaminates your face.

How many people have you seen following those "guidelines"? LOL.

Then there's the fact that masks, especially the mandated "cloth face coverings", do nothing to stop the transmission of viruses. Other than all that, good idea sheeple.



Face Masks

In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs [Fauci has stated that only Randomized Controlled Trials should be considered valid evidence] that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2). One study evaluated the use of masks among pilgrims from Australia during the Hajj pilgrimage and reported no major difference in the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection in the control or mask group (33). Two studies in university settings assessed the effectiveness of face masks for primary protection by monitoring the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among student hall residents for 5 months (9,10). The overall reduction in ILI or laboratory-confirmed influenza cases in the face mask group was not significant in either studies (9,10). Study designs in the 7 household studies were slightly different: 1 study provided face masks and P2 respirators for household contacts only (34), another study evaluated face mask use as a source control for infected persons only (35), and the remaining studies provided masks for the infected persons as well as their close contacts (11–13,15,17). None of the household studies reported a significant reduction in secondary laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the face mask group (11–13,15,17,34,35). Most studies were underpowered because of limited sample size, and some studies also reported suboptimal adherence in the face mask group.

Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

* * * * *

Show me a peer-reviewed RCT concluding that "cloth face coverings" prevent viral transmission.

Do I need to post the recent Danish study with just under 6,000 participants in an RCT showing that masks have no statistically significant effect in lowering viral transmission?

Do I need to post the recent Chinese study with millions of participants, and 1,174 asymptomatic positive-tested people wherein not one single infection was traced to them (i.e. asymptomatic positive-test people are NOT infectious)?

That’s exactly why I don’t want to even have a casual conversation with him. It’s maddening because there is no logic to what he says.

Arguing with children is like that.  Heck, I will not even talk to democrats.

Arguing with children is like that.  Heck, I will not even talk to democrats.

I talk to Democrats all the time.  It's usually while paying my vehicle registration fees and answering if I want to up-size my combo meal.   

Disposable masks are supposed to be disposed of after two hours of wearing. "Surgical masks" (having 12-14 layers of material) are supposed to be changed every two hours and washed daily in a water temperature of at least 140 degrees. The mask is supposed to be put on and removed by only touching the ear-bands, not the mask itself, and then placed in a sanitized bag for disposal or later washing. Never touch the mask, as that contaminates it, and never touch your face as that contaminates your face.

How many people have you seen following those "guidelines"? LOL.

Then there's the fact that masks, especially the mandated "cloth face coverings", do nothing to stop the transmission of viruses. Other than all that, good idea sheeple.



Face Masks

In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs [Fauci has stated that only Randomized Controlled Trials should be considered valid evidence] that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2). One study evaluated the use of masks among pilgrims from Australia during the Hajj pilgrimage and reported no major difference in the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection in the control or mask group (33). Two studies in university settings assessed the effectiveness of face masks for primary protection by monitoring the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among student hall residents for 5 months (9,10). The overall reduction in ILI or laboratory-confirmed influenza cases in the face mask group was not significant in either studies (9,10). Study designs in the 7 household studies were slightly different: 1 study provided face masks and P2 respirators for household contacts only (34), another study evaluated face mask use as a source control for infected persons only (35), and the remaining studies provided masks for the infected persons as well as their close contacts (11–13,15,17). None of the household studies reported a significant reduction in secondary laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the face mask group (11–13,15,17,34,35). Most studies were underpowered because of limited sample size, and some studies also reported suboptimal adherence in the face mask group.

Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

* * * * *

Show me a peer-reviewed RCT concluding that "cloth face coverings" prevent viral transmission.

Do I need to post the recent Danish study with just under 6,000 participants in an RCT showing that masks have no statistically significant effect in lowering viral transmission?

Do I need to post the recent Chinese study with millions of participants, and 1,174 asymptomatic positive-tested people wherein not one single infection was traced to them (i.e. asymptomatic positive-test people are NOT infectious)?

Sounds like a seal would make all the difference for medical grade (AST 1,2,3) surgical mask.  The other issue I see here is real surgical mask are hard to come by.  Most, if not all look a like mask at Sams, Walmart, Times, Amazon, etc... are not AST rated.  These are basically a few layers of material not designed to stop viral droplets at all.

Sounds like a seal would make all the difference for medical grade (AST 1,2,3) surgical mask.  The other issue I see here is real surgical mask are hard to come by.  Most, if not all look a like mask at Sams, Walmart, Times, Amazon, etc... are not AST rated.  These are basically a few layers of material not designed to stop viral droplets at all.

The "emergency" "proclamation" "mandates" require that people wear devices/materials that have zero scientific basis for efficacy to prevent viral transmission. That is not rational, logical, evidence-based, nor scientific. The government is criminalizing noncompliance with an action that serves no medical/public health purpose whatsoever (except in the delusional fantasy world of magic talismans). That's exactly why The Cult of the Cloth is exactly that: a cult. "Just do it. Don't ask questions. Otherwise, you're in trouble. Oh, and here's some Kool-Aid. Drink up."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

Multi-layer cloth masks block release of exhaled respiratory particles into the environment,3-6 along with the microorganisms these particles carry.7,8  Cloth masks not only effectively block most large droplets (i.e., 20-30 microns and larger)9 but they can also block the exhalation of fine droplets and particles (also often referred to as aerosols) smaller than 10 microns ;3,5 which increase in number with the volume of speech10-12 and specific types of phonation.13 Multi-layer cloth masks can both block up to 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles3,14  and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.5,6,15,16 Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments that have measured blocking of all respiratory droplets,4 with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.3,9,14

Don't think hospitals have an incentive to LIE about the number of COVID-19 deaths?

How about a 20% BONU$ in hospital $ub$idie$ for every COVID-19 "related" death they report?

It's insane!   

COVID-19 Bounty? Is Pandemic Death Count
Skewed by Medicare Reimbursement Bonus?

Dr. Flip-Flop Fauci -- the man some people wanted to run the pandemic response.

 

Dr. Flip-Flop Fauci -- the man some people wanted to run the pandemic response.

 
SNIP

Or Ltg Green always on local news "leading the charge" and will "personally ensure" everyone in Hawaii gets the vaccine in a timely fashion. . . 

Watched it.   Kids dying was not the reason we shut down the schools it was they will spread it to others. 

The horror experts might of got things wrong about a unknown virus and out of caution recommended stricter things. 

Then changing position when more info came out and better procedures to fight the virus came to light.   Trump never ever flip flops. 

He lied, children have died of covid. 

I still support the scientists and experts. Could of the response been different if we knew what we knew back then.  Maybe.   It's it practical to expect that?  No.  Did Trump cause so much confusion on top of the unknowns? Yes.  Tbh Hawaii went with caution. And I think overall we did a decent job. 

I think fauci is good.   He has done far more good than bad,  I support him.