https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57714808

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/24/asia/afghanistan-taliban-offensive-intl-cmd/index.html

saw on tv, forget what channel, that the Taliban is taking over several cities, taking weapons.  Afghan military just giving up without a fight.
is this like Obama's Iraq all over again, giving rise to ISIS?
thoughts?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57714808

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/24/asia/afghanistan-taliban-offensive-intl-cmd/index.html

saw on tv, forget what channel, that the Taliban is taking over several cities, taking weapons.  Afghan military just giving up without a fight.
is this like Obama's Iraq all over again, giving rise to ISIS?
thoughts?

They are getting their funding again since sleepy joe is back.

Never understood how that entire country got to be the scapegoat for what ever little tribe was harboring Bin Laden while he was hiding. Notice we didn't invade Pakistan and occupy it for 2 decades when they did the same?

A day or so ago there was news that the DOJ was finally going to pursue Saudi Arabia for their part in 9/11, which is almost all of it, Afghanistan was a bit player at best.

Also China has become seriously influential in Afghanistan. They are trying to use sugar to get all those rare earth minerals needed for green / big tech the country is littered with. That will not end well either when the Taliban decides that the extermination of the Uyghars is grounds for jihad.

Also China has become seriously influential in Afghanistan. They are trying to use sugar to get all those rare earth minerals needed for green / big tech the country is littered with. That will not end well either when the Taliban decides that the extermination of the Uyghars is grounds for jihad.

Saw a story that China is in talks with Afghanistan leaders to pay for infrastructure upgrades.

They obviously have something China needs/wants, and it's not sand.  I say, if China wants to bring the country up to a better quality of living and in the process do some trading, that's more productive than pouring national wealth into a bottomless hole of military spending with little to nothing materially to show for it after 20 years. 

If the Taliban comes in and takes over, at this point is it the fault of the US?  We protected them for a lot longer than was necessary.  Afghanistan is a very difficult country to do battle in.  The USSR discovered that, and the US had to relearn that lesson.  If the Taliban is able to defeat the Afghanistan people, maybe we can learn from them what it takes for possible future actions.

It's one thing to fight a war on terror.  It's another to think one or two large countries in the Middle East are the key to winning it.  Terrorism is global, and there are plenty of other countries that will provide a place to live and train.  Iran comes to mind.

Also China has become seriously influential in Afghanistan.

When a country does not meddle in another country's local elections or threaten invasion on false pretenses, that country usually will gain respect with the host nation and more akin to receive better trade deals.

They are trying to use sugar to get all those rare earth minerals needed for green / big tech the country is littered with.

Another byproduct of good faith diplomacy; much better than the US imperial foreign policy of do what our ultrawealthy wants or else be invaded and have your nation indefinitely occupied, by the US imperial military.

That will not end well either when the Taliban decides that the extermination of the Uyghars is grounds for jihad.

The Taliban are not ill-informed people, as they fully know exactly what is happening in this World.  If those Uyghur genocidal allegations were true, China would have never been to get a foot through the door.  If there is a Jihad against China, its more likely the best Jihad mercenaries the US empire can buy and supply.

Business as usual for the US empire...

When a country does not meddle in another country's local elections or threaten invasion on false pretenses, that country usually will gain respect with the host nation and more akin to receive better trade deals.


Another byproduct of good faith diplomacy; much better than the US imperial foreign policy of do what our ultrawealthy wants or else be invaded and have your nation indefinitely occupied, by the US imperial military.


The Taliban are not ill-informed people, as they fully know exactly what is happening in this World.  If those Uyghur genocidal allegations were true, China would have never been to get a foot through the door.  If there is a Jihad against China, its more likely the best Jihad mercenaries the US empire can buy and supply.

Business as usual for the US empire...

You are missing a lot of cultural nuances when it comes to fundamentalist Islam. They have a couple thousand years of 'by any means necessary' attitude.

Google Taqiya


Taking money / arms / double crossing  Infidels and Enemies is all part and parcel of their culture. They are famous liars about even the most trivial things. It's not even about deception,  you are supposed to expect that everyone is lying but show patience and very slowly parse the actual truth thru long long conversations over months, weeks, years. It's a life long poker game.

You are missing a lot of cultural nuances when it comes to fundamentalist Islam. They have a couple thousand years of 'by any means necessary' attitude.

Google Taqiya


Taking money / arms / double crossing  Infidels and Enemies is all part and parcel of their culture. They are famous liars about even the most trivial things. It's not even about deception,  you are supposed to expect that everyone is lying but show patience and very slowly parse the actual truth thru long long conversations over months, weeks, years. It's a life long poker game.

This is exactly my point.

China is the last major ancient empire/civilization that is still in existence today.  It is not that China is anyone's friend, but rather it knows what it needs to do, for its civilization to survive another 5,000 years.  Accumulating soft power, equitable trade, and building long-term relationships, without resorting to territorial invasions or meddling in the internal affairs of other nations is what they realized works, in the indefinite long-term.

This contrasts with the more Eurocentric view of having or taking the goods right now, for immediate consumption, at the barrel of a gun.  Patience is a virtue that China has mastered and is why it has been able to endure the sufferings and humiliation, by the Western imperial powers, for the last 200 years; and now is poised to be the lone superpower, by the mid-21st century and beyond.

Having a predominantly homogenous population and culture also helps, but that's another discussion.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't. There is no clear decision here. Some advantages to maintaining a base there but many not to as well.

You have to wonder how many of those newly released former gitmo prisoners are buying a ticket to Mexico City right now to find a coyote to take them across the border.

Yeah they had such a solid plan, I really dont undestand how it didnt work.

executed from an administration whose boss can't remember names and loves to smelll children
Stupid people are in control now.

Seen pics of equipment left behind. Is it sop to leave as is or did someone just "sign it over" to the afghan army and say fuck it, not my problem anymore.

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Seen pics of equipment left behind. Is it sop to leave as is or did someone just "sign it over" to the afghan army and say fuck it, not my problem anymore.

its pretty simple to disable all that hardware in some way, its not like the Afghans are going to be ordering spare parts from NAPA or Brownell's to get stuff back online. Leaving anything operational seems be to counter  thousands years of the basic combat doctrine of 'Deny the Enemy  Resources'.

But if you look at the Globalist / Military Industrial Complex mindset over the past 60 yrs, their basic premise is to sow Conflict and Instability to hamstring poor nations from moving out of the stone ages.

Also China has already set up shop inside Afghanistan and is sucking the rare earth green new deal minerals out of the ground there as we speak. Leaving behind enough weapons for the natives to give the CCP their turn to taste of what the USSR and the USA got for stepping foot into that sh*thole might be the only Consolation Prize they could manage out of the wasteful mess. .

its pretty simple to disable all that hardware in some way, its not like the Afghans are going to be ordering spare parts from NAPA or Brownell's to get stuff back online. Leaving anything operational seems be to counter  thousands years of the basic combat doctrine of 'Deny the Enemy  Resources'.

Isn't obvious why US imperial military equipment was left behind?

You can be sure the Military Industrial Complex will find a way to sell parts the Taliban needs.  Its just the American people that will not know about it.

But if you look at the Globalist / Military Industrial Complex mindset over the past 60 yrs, their basic premise is to sow Conflict and Instability to hamstring poor nations from moving out of the stone ages.

Perpetual war, exactly what the Project for the new American Century dictated more than 20 years ago.

Also China has already set up shop inside Afghanistan and is sucking the rare earth green new deal minerals out of the ground there as we speak. Leaving behind enough weapons for the natives to give the CCP their turn to taste of what the USSR and the USA got for stepping foot into that sh*thole might be the only Consolation Prize they could manage out of the wasteful mess.

The only reason why the Taliban is dealing with China is that the Chinese are not interested in turning Afghanistan into their vassal state, unlike what the former Soviet and US empires tried and failed to do.

Erik Prince wants to privatize the US military. He runs the modern equivalent of the Praetorian Guard, and would probably stage a military coup on our government the first chance he gets.

He does not want out of Afghanistan. He wants to stay there and have his overpriced corporate mercenaries massacre the citizens forever.

The withdrawal looks more like another attempt at Pottery Barn Rules that Powell warned about.

Create a disaster that we have to go back and "fix"

The only reason why the Taliban is dealing with China is that the Chinese are not interested in turning Afghanistan into their vassal state, unlike what the former Soviet and US empires tried and failed to do.

I think places like Italy can tell you that the CCPs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative is looking to do EXACTLY that everywhere they go. I just dont think that plan works nearly as well in places like Afghanistan where you cant use the local government / laws to inflict the method onto the country.

They are better off doing what the Brits did to Saudi Arabia, prop up a single Warlord into a Kamehameha level Conqueror to crush the populace under his boot and then rob him blind by payng cents on the dollar for the resources under his control. The West successfully did that all over the Middle East since the discovery of Oil.