Or getting in the nuts.

that guys lovers won't need an abortion 

:facepalm:

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SNIP

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And the day ain't over yet. . .

And the day ain't over yet. . .

He's got 3 hours my time!

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Is burning tires in ur yard legal?

Say for arguments sake it is legal. There is a diff between me asking u to stop and someone who lives 1 hour away, who u dont know and asking u to stop because they heard from a friend who heard from a crackhead, who heard from me that its bothering me.

Or lets say u plan on burning it, but havent yet and havent for 2 years. Then i call the cops. Can they arrest u or issue a citation because u might burn tires? Like how someone might catch covid. 1 has to catch it first, then need hospital care in order to affect the hospital #s.

Like we covered already, many other countries data conflicts with the main US info. So either they are all wrong, or we are.

Bet WMDs were real too right? Fool me once...

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The point of the tire burning question is just to illustrate that there are limits to freedoms when those freedoms start affecting other peoples. I don't think we could ever draw a clean line across all issues that would work universally so it certainly isn't something with a big glaring obvious correct answer.

I do totally understand the hesitation to believe the government on covid advice but lets say hypothetically that we could trust the government, that the vaccine was safe and effective. This would create a dilema on how to triage patients at a hospital. In this hypothetical if you lost a loved one to a curable condition because they couldn't get into the hospital due to excess unvaccinated covid patients, what would you think about that? Certainly it would be understandable that if you lost your child, for example, you might be very angry at the unvaccinated people.

And even if the vaccine isn't as safe or effective as we have been lead to believe we are still facing overcrowded hospitals where staff are going to have to decide who should be treated.

oops, i was wrong
it was 6%
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf

I think people misunderstand just what these numbers mean and I think some have exploited this to give people the impression that covid isn't killing people, only the comorbidities are. The fact that comorbidities are so common doesn't mean that the covid didn't kill the person. If I had terminal cancer and someone shot me through the heart my death certificate might still say cancer even though obviously the bullet killed me. A lot of these comorbidities are things that probably wouldn't have killed the person or at least wouldn't have killed them for many years. Death certificates usually list all conditions a person has when they die, it isn't the doctor saying exactly what killed the person.

I have a heart condition, atrial fibrilation, but the heart doctor says it isn't something to worry about, puts no restrictions on my activities, and doesn't provide medication for it. But if I died with covid tomorrow people would say it wasn't covid because of the comorbidity even though the comorbidity shouldn't have killed me.

On top of that, some of the comorbidities are things caused by covid. So for example covid  can cause pneumonia and on the death certificate both covid and pneumonia would be listed. Claiming that covid didn't kill the person the pneumonia must have would clearly be a flawed argument. Take a look at the list, it even mentions depressive episodes totaling about 1000 deaths. Am I supposed to think that the depression killed the person and not the covid?

But in the end what does it matter if only 6% of people are dying with only covid? Hospitals are still full, many more people are dying annually than non pandemic years, and it doesn't mean covid isn't a risk. It is still killing 1.6% of Americans who catch it and making about 5% (IIRC) of people who catch it serious ill. If the roller coaster operator told me that only 1 out of 100 riders died on the ride I wouldn't get on.

that's illegal

Ok, so just pass a law requiring vaccine, vaccine passes, masks, etc and it will all be ok because then it is legal right?

The point of the question is not whether it is legal or illegal but whether it is something that should be allowed or disallowed because of the effect it has on people around you.

I think people misunderstand just what these numbers mean and I think some have exploited this to give people the impression that covid isn't killing people, only the comorbidities are. The fact that comorbidities are so common doesn't mean that the covid didn't kill the person. If I had terminal cancer and someone shot me through the heart my death certificate might still say cancer even though obviously the bullet killed me. A lot of these comorbidities are things that probably wouldn't have killed the person or at least wouldn't have killed them for many years. Death certificates usually list all conditions a person has when they die, it isn't the doctor saying exactly what killed the person.

I have a heart condition, atrial fibrilation, but the heart doctor says it isn't something to worry about, puts no restrictions on my activities, and doesn't provide medication for it. But if I died with covid tomorrow people would say it wasn't covid because of the comorbidity even though the comorbidity shouldn't have killed me.

On top of that, some of the comorbidities are things caused by covid. So for example covid  can cause pneumonia and on the death certificate both covid and pneumonia would be listed. Claiming that covid didn't kill the person the pneumonia must have would clearly be a flawed argument. Take a look at the list, it even mentions depressive episodes totaling about 1000 deaths. Am I supposed to think that the depression killed the person and not the covid?

But in the end what does it matter if only 6% of people are dying with only covid? Hospitals are still full, many more people are dying annually than non pandemic years, and it doesn't mean covid isn't a risk. It is still killing 1.6% of Americans who catch it and making about 5% (IIRC) of people who catch it serious ill. If the roller coaster operator told me that only 1 out of 100 riders died on the ride I wouldn't get on.

in many countries, death numbers are lower than normal this year, because the vulnerable people that would have died this year were killed by covid-related death last year...

you asked for proof of my number, i provided it
please show me where i stated otherwise any of those things you mention...

I think people misunderstand just what these numbers mean and I think some have exploited this to give people the impression that covid isn't killing people, only the comorbidities are. The fact that comorbidities are so common doesn't mean that the covid didn't kill the person. If I had terminal cancer and someone shot me through the heart my death certificate might still say cancer even though obviously the bullet killed me. A lot of these comorbidities are things that probably wouldn't have killed the person or at least wouldn't have killed them for many years. Death certificates usually list all conditions a person has when they die, it isn't the doctor saying exactly what killed the person.

I have a heart condition, atrial fibrilation, but the heart doctor says it isn't something to worry about, puts no restrictions on my activities, and doesn't provide medication for it. But if I died with covid tomorrow people would say it wasn't covid because of comorbidity even though the comorbidity shouldn't have killed me.

On top of that, some of the comorbidities are things caused by covid. So for example covid  can cause pneumonia and on the death certificate both covid and pneumonia would be listed. Claiming that covid didn't kill the person the pneumonia must have would clearly be a flawed argument. Take a look at the list, it even mentions depressive episodes totaling about 1000 deaths. Am I supposed to think that the depression killed the person and not the covid?

But in the end what does it matter if only 6% of people are dying with only covid? Hospitals are still full, many more people are dying annually than non pandemic years, and it doesn't mean covid isn't a risk. It is still killing 1.6% of Americans who catch it and making about 5% (IIRC) of people who catch it serious ill. If the roller coaster operator told me that only 1 out of 100 riders died on the ride I wouldn't get on.

The point of the tire burning question is just to illustrate that there are limits to freedoms when those freedoms start affecting other peoples. I don't think we could ever draw a clean line across all issues that would work universally so it certainly isn't something with a big glaring obvious correct answer.

I do totally understand the hesitation to believe the government on covid advice but lets say hypothetically that we could trust the government, that the vaccine was safe and effective. This would create a dilema on how to triage patients at a hospital. In this hypothetical if you lost a loved one to a curable condition because they couldn't get into the hospital due to excess unvaccinated covid patients, what would you think about that? Certainly it would be understandable that if you lost your child, for example, you might be very angry at the unvaccinated people.

And even if the vaccine isn't as safe or effective as we have been lead to believe we are still facing overcrowded hospitals where staff are going to have to decide who should be treated.

I would blame the hospital for putting profit over saving lives. Or politics over lives. Like use of ivermectin and other treatments early on, instead of waiting till its so bad.
Unless they did everything possible. But i dont see the cafetrira closed off and extra beds out there.

We keep going in circles because u dont understand why i dont trust orgs who lied for the past 5 years. Its ur call if u want to trust them. But i dont. Like domestic violence, "he said he wont do it again, he promised".

Then we also have diff views on freedoms. What if u have to fire ur gun and miss and kill a child. Since the chance is not 0%  should all hpd not use firearms? Other peoples lives matter.

So we dont keep going in circles, u got ur view on freedom and i have mine. We can leave it as that. Like how we disagree on red flag laws.

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Ok, so just pass a law requiring vaccine, vaccine passes, masks, etc and it will all be ok because then it is legal right?

The point of the question is not whether it is legal or illegal but whether it is something that should be allowed or disallowed because of the effect it has on people around you.

With this mentality, anything and everything can be banned. Because everything effects everyone.

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With this mentality, anything and everything can be banned. Because everything effects everyone.

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eyeamacommunist

With this mentality, anything and everything can be banned. Because everything effects everyone.

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This used to be a thing. Instead people are getting talked into yet ANOTHER way to hate their neighbor with this fresh new scheme to pit people against each other
Meanwhile the politicians laugh you are falling for it and go about stuffing their pockets because you are looking the wrong way.

in many countries, death numbers are lower than normal this year, because the vulnerable people that would have died this year were killed by covid-related death last year...

I wouldn't necessarily consider that a good thing.

you asked for proof of my number, i provided it
please show me where i stated otherwise any of those things you mention...

I wasn't accusing you of making up the number, rather I wanted to see you bring in a source as an opening to bring in the context of what that number means and doesn't mean. I see people frequently using such numbers to suggest that covid isn't really killing people. Not saying you were doing that but I have seen others doing that.

I would blame the hospital for putting profit over saving lives. Or politics over lives. Like use of ivermectin and other treatments early on, instead of waiting till its so bad.
Unless they did everything possible. But i dont see the cafetrira closed off and extra beds out there.

We keep going in circles because u dont understand why i dont trust orgs who lied for the past 5 years. Its ur call if u want to trust them. But i dont. Like domestic violence, "he said he wont do it again, he promised".

Then we also have diff views on freedoms. What if u have to fire ur gun and miss and kill a child. Since the chance is not 0%  should all hpd not use firearms? Other peoples lives matter.

So we dont keep going in circles, u got ur view on freedom and i have mine. We can leave it as that. Like how we disagree on red flag laws.

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I completely understand the lack of trust but that has no bearing on whether hospitals will have to triage. I was asking you what you thought about how the triage should work, not whether you should be forced to get a vaccine. We both agree that no one should be forced to get a vaccine.


I disagree that the overcrowding is merely profit over lives but that is a separate issue.

I wouldn't necessarily consider that a good thing.

please show me where i said that was a good thing
the "all causes" death decrease this year almost equals the "covid related" death increase over the "all causes" death figure last year
meaning that the net 2020 plus 2021 "all causes" deaths are about where they were expected to be without "covid related" intervention...

With this mentality, anything and everything can be banned. Because everything effects everyone.

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Seems like you are avoiding the question/issue with that reply. Should we never restrict anything then because it is a slippery slop to restricting everything?

Seems like you are avoiding the question/issue with that reply. Should we never restrict anything then because it is a slippery slop to restricting everything?

We should restrict everything since it can affect others. Bananas especially cause someone can slip on a peel and fall and crack their head open.



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