Here in Hawaii? Thats not the numbers I have been seeing. Breakthrough cases represent a very small portion of the cases and the hospitalizations.
https://www.khon2.com/coronavirus/covid-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-in-hawaii-spiked-since-july/

I did hear a report on the news about how many of the covid numbers they are seeing now are people going to the hospitals for other reasons but the cases are caught during screenings. So the person may have no health problems and just a broken ankle but if the screening finds covid then the person is counted as a breakthrough case. This may be one reason we are seeing all these breakthrough cases. I read an exaplanation about why covid seems to spread easily despite the vaccine. It had something to do with covid being able to spread in the nasal passage rather than deeper in the body. This meant that it can reproduce easier and be contagious before the immune system can fight it off. This seems to explain how people are still being able to spread it while vaccinated and without symptoms. Not because of a failure of the vaccine but because of the way the virus reproduces and natural limitations of how fast even a vaccinated immune system can respond.

The USA is supposed to be running Ivermectin trials but last I heard about it, it didn't seem promising. I haven't heard if they completed the studies yet.

Most hospitalized are unvaxxed, like 85% is the average. Last few weeks fluctuates between 11-16% vaxxed. Green gives this info via his fb/ig.

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Then why is the government dictating medical care and demanding a One Size Fits All approach to dealing with this?

You understand that Fauci while holds the title of 'doctor' he isnt a practicing medical doctor, he hasnt touched a patient since his residency in 1968. He has zero business telling anyone how to treat disease. He is lab worker who became a bureaucrat.

Though I am no fan of Fauci, whether he sees patients or not isn't really a good argument against him. He is an immunologist by specialty and in his position he is looking at data on a large scale, not from the position of one doctor on the ground.

As I see it the government is doing what governments do. Respond to situations imperfectly, usually with good intentions. Think about it this way, if the government did nothing it would still be blamed plus the death toll would likely be higher. Politicians want to minimize blame to them. If anything though the USA isn't a one size fits all approach, we have 50 states doing their own things and the feds sticking their foot in the door as well. I think the government is pushing vaccines so hard because the leaders believe that is the answer to resolving the pandemic. I think their execution is poor on a number of levels though

errf

CDCs only job, track diseases and their spread.

FDAs only job test drugs to see if they are safe for consuption.

Neither is a healthcare organization. They never in history have been the ones to tell doctors what do do.


"Think about it this way, if the government did nothing it would still be blamed plus the death toll would likely be higher.'


Obama literally ignored the swine flu outbreak and did nothing.


H1N1 swine flu outbreak of 2009 infected 700 million people world-wide and caused  575,000 fatalities only in the first year of the outbreak in 2009


From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus.

fauci lied and committed fraud with HIV (in similar ways to what he may be doing now), yet is currently the highest paid person in the US Government...

Though I am no fan of Fauci, whether he sees patients or not isn't really a good argument against him. He is an immunologist by specialty and in his position he is looking at data on a large scale, not from the position of one doctor on the ground.

As I see it the government is doing what governments do. Respond to situations imperfectly, usually with good intentions. Think about it this way, if the government did nothing it would still be blamed plus the death toll would likely be higher. Politicians want to minimize blame to them. If anything though the USA isn't a one size fits all approach, we have 50 states doing their own things and the feds sticking their foot in the door as well. I think the government is pushing vaccines so hard because the leaders believe that is the answer to resolving the pandemic. I think their execution is poor on a number of levels though

The main reason people blame the government when they do nothing is the government sold itself as the end-all be-all solution for every problem that comes along.

In the case of a pandemic, sure, they are best able to do CERTAIN THINGS to stop the spread and find a vaccine, but the government should not be expected to manage 100% of the problem.  We have local level officials and agencies much more capable of dealing with the human aspect of the problem.  If the homeless population is increasing infection rates, don't expect the feds to fix that.

Every politician who campaigns for Congress and the WH promises the moon.  Yet, things like racial equality, social justice and so on are not in the scope of their duties.

But, it buys votes, so don't expect it to stop.  Biden ran on fixing the COVID situation.  So far, mostly excuses, blaming Trump, and more promises.  He was elected on a platform that a President should have never considered running on. 

Ending the war in Afghanistan was another of Biden's promises.  Even when he IS doing what's under his job description, he mucks it up.

But, hey!  We should always trust government.

Regarding the narrative we are being told that most of the people who die in Hawaii are unvaccinated, here’s some things to consider:

1. If someone who took the jab gets hospitalized and dies within 14 days of being vaccinated, they count it as an unvaccinated death.  What if some of those  person actually died from taking the jab and not from covid?

2. What if some of those deaths were caused by the treatment protocols used to treat those admitted for covid, and not from covid itself?  What if the underlying conditions that led to organ failure are actually caused by the wrong treatments (medical malpractice), and not by covid as we are told?

3. What about the claim by the Hawaii Whistleblower that Dr Green conflated the number of covid deaths by including deaths of hospice patients?

Regarding the narrative we are being told that most of the people who die in Hawaii are unvaccinated, here’s some things to consider:

1. If someone who took the jab gets hospitalized and dies within 14 days of being vaccinated, they count it as an unvaccinated death.  What if some of those  person actually died from taking the jab and not from covid?

2. What if some of those deaths were caused by the treatment protocols used to treat those admitted for covid, and not from covid itself?  What if the underlying conditions that led to organ failure are actually caused by the wrong treatments (medical malpractice), and not by covid as we are told?

3. What about the claim by the Hawaii Whistleblower that Dr Green conflated the number of covid deaths by including deaths of hospice patients?

The vaccine had been proven safe in that 14 day window. 

Even if you had a pre existing issue, covid is what pushed it over the tipping point and we can assume without covid you would be still alive.  So that's a valid way to count covid deaths. 

The vaccine had been proven safe in that 14 day window. 

Even if you had a pre existing issue, covid is what pushed it over the tipping point and we can assume without covid you would be still alive.  So that's a valid way to count covid deaths.

Have proof of that statement?

I have a good friend whose father was forced to take the vaxx (for reasons I don't have all of the details), but suffered some severe reactions.  And not just "feeling terrible" reactions.  While not that common, I've heard many stories like that.  So please, again, tell me if you have proof of that blanket statement. . .

Ever listen to those commercials for drugs and the disclaimers? 

Then attributing death to COVID, while I get what you're saying, that's your opinion and part of the point of contention in "the data".  But that's still your opinion.  Or let me put it this way, what do you know of co-morbidities?

If the jabs are safe then Pfizer would roll out the FDA approved version that DOES NOT have EUA protections against lawsuits. They are refusing to supply that version of the vaxx to people.

Have proof of that statement?

I have a good friend whose father was forced to take the vaxx (for reasons I don't have all of the details), but suffered some severe reactions.  And not just "feeling terrible" reactions.  While not that common, I've heard many stories like that.  So please, again, tell me if you have proof of that blanket statement. . .

Ever listen to those commercials for drugs and the disclaimers? 

Then attributing death to COVID, while I get what you're saying, that's your opinion and part of the point of contention in "the data".  But that's still your opinion.  Or let me put it this way, what do you know of co-morbidities?

The CDC says complications with the vaccine are rare.  They and others have done extensive testing for the covid vaccine.  Hundreds of millions are vaccinated with no issues.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/safety-of-vaccines.html

The CDC says complications with the vaccine are rare.  They and others have done extensive testing for the covid vaccine.  Hundreds of millions are vaccinated with no issues.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/safety-of-vaccines.html

Complications are rare = proven safe? 

No need to reply. . .

Complications are rare = proven safe? 

No need to reply. . .

Walking outside, the complications are rare but we generally say its safe. Same can be said for breathing, eating and basically everything humans do.

What I belive = low standard of proof

What anyone else believes = uber high level of proof

"I know what I know, don't confuse me with the facts". . . :facepalm:

What I belive = low standard of proof

What anyone else believes = uber high level of proof

"I know what I know, don't confuse me with the facts". . . :facepalm:

And he replied, even though you said no need. Something is seriously wrong...

And he replied, even though you said no need. Something is seriously wrong...

Nah, I expected it actually.  Point was already made, at least on my end.  I think relatively intelligent folks got it. 

What I belive = low standard of proof

What anyone else believes = uber high level of proof

"I know what I know, don't confuse me with the facts". . . :facepalm:

What experts and the government (who do research) believe >  Non experts > Conspiracy peddlers

On subjects I am not an expert, I choose to trust the experts.  The experts did research and come to the conclusion covid vaccines are safe.  They provided proof. 

Unlike some people here...

The vaccine had been proven safe in that 14 day window. 

Even if you had a pre existing issue, covid is what pushed it over the tipping point and we can assume without covid you would be still alive.  So that's a valid way to count covid deaths.

Hypothetical example:

1. Person takes the jab

2. Within 14 weeks, person get admitted to the hospital and gets tested and treated for covid.

3. They die from organ failure

4. Hospital lists them as an unvaccinated covid death resulting from organ failure.

5. Cha-ching!   Hospital gets reimbursed by the feds for another covid patient.

Paraphrasing Omnigun: “Person was unvaccinated so he/she was an idiot and deserved to die from covid.”

Skeptic:
1. “Is it really honest to treat this as an unvaccinated death?”  What is the time threshold?  Why 14 days?  Why not 2 days?

2. “How do you know that the covid test was accurate?” We know that the covid tests are not accurate.

3. “How do you know they didn’t get hospitalized BECAUSE of the vaccine shot?”  We know there are adverse reactions to the jab (see VAERS).

4. “How do you know they didn’t die FROM the vaccine shot?” Same point as #3.

5. “How do you know they didn’t suffer from organ failure because of wrong treatments at the hospital leading to organ failure (rmdsmvr)?”  More people die from medical malpractice than from Covid.  If I’m not mistaken, I recall reading somewhere that the #3 cause of death is medical malpractice.

Hypothetical example:

1. Person takes the jab

2. Within 14 weeks, person get admitted to the hospital and gets tested and treated for covid.

3. They die from organ failure

4. Hospital lists them as an unvaccinated covid death resulting from organ failure.

Paraphrasing Omnigun: “Person was unvaccinated so he/she was an idiot and deserved to die from covid.”

Skeptic:
1. “Is it really honest to treat this as an unvaccinated death?”  What is the time threshold?  Why 14 days?  Why not 2 days?

2. “How do you know that the covid test was accurate?” We know that the covid tests are not accurate.

3. “How do you know they didn’t get hospitalized BECAUSE of the vaccine shot?”  We know there are adverse reactions to the jab (see VAERS).

4. “How do you know they didn’t die FROM the vaccine shot?” Same point as #3.

5. “How do you know they didn’t suffer from organ failure because of wrong treatments at the hospital leading to organ failure (rmdsmvr)?”  More people die from medical malpractice than from Covid.  If I’m not mistaken, I recall reading somewhere that the #3 cause of death is medical malpractice.

The vaccine needs a certain period of time to work.   If not reached the end result, we can't hold it responsible.  Imagine complaining your food is bad before its fully cooked.   Also at this point to wait so long for the Covid vaccine that's on you. 

There are different covid tests, some more accurate than others.  But the degree of accuracy is greater than the degree of it being wrong.   This is not a perfect world, assumptions must be made.  For every false positive there might be someone who died who never got diagnosed or a false negative.

There are adverse reactions but using simple probability we can make safe assumptions especially if they tested positive for covid.  The vaccine should not produce this result.

Its almost impossible to tell "true" deaths but we make educated assumptions all the time.  Did the cancer truly kill the patient or did the address stress on the body cause heart failure/etc.  What do you blame?  Normally they would say cancer killed them. 

For your 5th one, I have not seen any evidence of his, do you have sources?

For #1, if you ate sushi then had to go toilet, how do you know it wasn’t from the sushi?  Why 14 days for the vaccine to take effect on your body before it will have an effect on your body?

For #5, No sources, just anecdotes.  But do you have sources otherwise?