ATF has a National Database with a nearly a Billion Guns on it: What for? (Read 9521 times)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: ATF has a National Database with a nearly a Billion Guns on it: What for?
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2022, 11:19:31 PM »
Ed Duphrane is 1 case.

That's a name.  What's the case?

Are you in the middle of watching Shawshank Redemption?  with Andy Duphrane?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

changemyoil66

That's a name.  What's the case?

Are you in the middle of watching Shawshank Redemption?  with Andy Duphrane?
No focus. Its andy. I was being a wise ass.

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Flapp_Jackson

No focus. Its andy. I was being a wise ass.

A little more "wise", and a little less "ass", please!

 :rofl:
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

DocMercy

You have yet to provide a single case in which gun registration was THE piece of evidence that solved a crime.

This is a good question for Law Enforcement, and since I am not a LEO, I'll pose another use for the gun registration. A spouse bludgeons his partner, rendering her unconscious. A neighbor sees the husband running from the house with blood on his hands, leaving the door open. Neighbor calls 911, and police put out an APB, with the suspect being described as armed and dangerous, using information they grab from his motor vehicle license and the HPD gun registration database. Another instance where it can be useful is weapon theft. How many weapon owners remember the serial numbers of every gun they own. Without these numbers, how do you notify pawn shops? Duh, da gun was brown and had a bluish tint! In an active shooting, wouldn't it help to know whether the shooter possessed an automatic or semi-automatic rifle, vs. a .22 cal pistol? Suppose a hotel employee noticed that Stephen Paddock was checking into the hotel with 4 rifle cases. Don't you think that LVPD would have been interested in this information (that the man actually owned 24 weapons)? Alas, Nevada has no gun registration. Meanwhile the hotel had to settle $800MM in lawsuits.

You need to stop turning every argument into an All or Nothing at All proposition. Information has its uses to build a case. It does not have to be the smoking gun.

changemyoil66

All ur examples have holes in them.

There is a reason why HI is the ONLY state to require all guns registered.

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ren

Despite all its corruption and incompetence it is not logical to turn towards government for these matters. We are too accepting of govt's reach into our lives. I don't believe in registering anything with the govt. We have all these silly nanny inspections from vehicles to food establishments all for the catch phrase "the common good". Those green placards from the DOH to determine if a food place is "safe". Basically it paves the way for the DOH to walk into any retail food establishment without any reasonable suspicion. If the businesses refuse - they get shut down. We see what the State of HI did with tasers despite a court ruling. For those that are so supportive of registration why don't you also relinquish the responsibility of storage to the govt? Store all your firearms with them until you are ready to use them. Have a sign in/out document so the govt knows for sure where they are.

Deeds Not Words

Flapp_Jackson

This is a good question for Law Enforcement, and since I am not a LEO, I'll pose another use for the gun registration. A spouse bludgeons his partner, rendering her unconscious. A neighbor sees the husband running from the house with blood on his hands, leaving the door open. Neighbor calls 911, and police put out an APB, with the suspect being described as armed and dangerous, using information they grab from his motor vehicle license and the HPD gun registration database. Another instance where it can be useful is weapon theft. How many weapon owners remember the serial numbers of every gun they own. Without these numbers, how do you notify pawn shops? Duh, da gun was brown and had a bluish tint! In an active shooting, wouldn't it help to know whether the shooter possessed an automatic or semi-automatic rifle, vs. a .22 cal pistol? Suppose a hotel employee noticed that Stephen Paddock was checking into the hotel with 4 rifle cases. Don't you think that LVPD would have been interested in this information (that the man actually owned 24 weapons)? Alas, Nevada has no gun registration. Meanwhile the hotel had to settle $800MM in lawsuits.

You need to stop turning every argument into an All or Nothing at All proposition. Information has its uses to build a case. It does not have to be the smoking gun.

You need to stop drunk-posting..   :crazy: :crazy:

I don't even know where to start.

If you aren't keeping a list of your guns' serial numbers, don't make it everyone else's duty to register so YOU have your numbers handy.  That's not even close to a valid solution IMHO.

Every gun owner has the serial number of the guns they own recorded on SOMETHING.  It might be a bill of sale (private or FFL sale), a receipt from a store, a picture, or even by contacting the seller (store, private seller, etc.).  If that fails, you may have listed it on your homeowner's or renter's insurance inventory.

If the gun was stolen from a lockbox, safe, or other storage container, was it kept in the factory box it came in when you bought it?  Guess what's normally on the inventory label of every gun case I have?  The serial number.  I keep all the boxes for every gun I buy -- pistol or long gun.  Every box has all the nomenclature printed on a label for each gun.

Most responsible gun owners -- and homeowners in general -- record the serial numbers of high value items and keep them in a safe location.  They may even have photos of all the items as well.  That information can be useful in case ANYTHING of value is stolen, lost or destroyed and you need to file a loss claim under your policy.

As a matter of fact, it's recommended by the police departments that you etch/engrave some unique identifiable information in all of your valuables where possible, something that is more attention-getting than a factory serial number.  I routinely put the last four of my social on all my tools and electronics.  That way, if the crook  removed the serial number sticker or places another one over it, the pawn shop owner will hopefully see there's an engraved number that matches my police report.

So, in short, a gun registry is NOT the only way to ascertain the serial number of a gun you need to report stolen, even IF you don't have them memorized.

In your hypothetical, you didn't say what the man bludgeoned the woman with.  If it was with the gun, and the witness was able to describe it to the police, then no registry is needed to assume he's armed.  They already know he was armed and may still be.  All the registry will do is tell the police the man owns a gun, not if he's actually armed or not.  Saying he's armed and dangerous without knowing he's armed is irresponsible.  It could get the man killed unjustly if a cop overreacts based on your hypothetical description of him having a gun without any evidence.

As for an active shooting, how the hell are you going to do a database search to know the shooter has ANY guns registered in his name?  Don't you need the active shooter's name first?  And, more importantly, nobody is going to approach the shooter differently based on what weapons he has registered.  First, how do you know WHICH weapon he brought if he owns several?  Secondly, how do you know he's even using one of his own guns?  He might have killed a relative and taken that person's AR-10, because he thought his AR-15 wan't going to be enough for his plans.  In this instance, the registry gives you possible guns he may be using, but it in no way identifies the gun in use.  In your mind, a Cop is going to care if the guy has a .357 magnum versus a Beretta 9mm?  Are the tactics going to change between a Ruger 10/22 and a Mini-14?

Wait, you said "WHAT IF an employee noticed 4 gun cases," then proceeded to lament that it would not have helped because "no NV gun registration."  What kind if twisted logic is that?  If the employee reports the gun cases to LE, do you really think they are going to review the hypothetical registrations, see he only LEGALLY OWNS 4 LEGALLY REGISTERED .22lr rifles, and not bother to go check the cases out in person?  There's no evidence what's in the cases.  They could be borrowed, stolen or illegally purchased.  None of those would then be in any registry.  Hell, he might have found a great deal on gun cases, and they are all empty!

Did you join Mothers Demand Action recently?  Because you sound exactly like them -- you think people intending to commit crimes will comply with gun registrations, and anyone with a registered gun should enjoy being treated like a suspect whenever someone has a "feeling" over seeing a gun case.

 :wacko:
« Last Edit: March 02, 2022, 06:29:23 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

robtmc

I don't even know where to start.
You are doing it again, wasting your time on a low-IQ millennial that FEELS what is right.   Either the original pissant again, or antother butt buddy goaded to come here from whatever FB/IG/LSMFT website they pleasure each other on.

You guys with all your life experiences are NOTHING compared to the collective wisdom of social masturbation groups.

"Angry old men"  Do not forget being put in your place.

Flapp_Jackson

Owner:  The only purpose for gun registration is confiscation!


Police:  We need a registry to solve crimes, like murders and gun thefts.


Owner:  Well, in that case, here are all my guns for you to register!


Police:  We have a new law making it a crime for insurrectionists to own guns.


Owner:  How do you decide who the insurrectionists are?


Police:  They own guns, of course!

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

DocMercy

If y'all don't like the laws of this state, why even bother living here? The only insurrectionists and seditionists who lose their right to own are weapon are convicted felons.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/oath-keeper-pleads-guilty-seditious-conspiracy-jan-attack/story?id=83212947

Up to 20 years in prison, and I hope they throw the book at him. This paranoia concerning the loss of 2A rights is getting childish. If you believe that the right to bear arms is absolute, then why exclude felons, children, schizophrenics, or those who are currently in prison for non-felony convictions. This quote is an embodiment of arguments made by the patron saint of conservative SCOTUS justices.

Quote
. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any
manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.

I can't believe that the time spent taking a training course,  applying for a PTA, getting it approved, picking up the handgun, and registering it could be so precious that it was an affront to some people. Guns used in crimes come from straw purchases and the black market (stolen guns, and diverted ones).  If you wish to argue from the perspective of use cases for the gun control lobby, show me a statistic where your self-defense gun actually stopped an attack in HI. The liberals will argue that needing a gun 0.1% of the time does not justify its use. Just buy a dog.

Flapp_Jackson

If y'all don't like the laws of this state, why even bother living here? The only insurrectionists and seditionists who lose their right to own are weapon are convicted felons.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/oath-keeper-pleads-guilty-seditious-conspiracy-jan-attack/story?id=83212947

Up to 20 years in prison, and I hope they throw the book at him. This paranoia concerning the loss of 2A rights is getting childish. If you believe that the right to bear arms is absolute, then why exclude felons, children, schizophrenics, or those who are currently in prison for non-felony convictions. This quote is an embodiment of arguments made by the patron saint of conservative SCOTUS justices.

I can't believe that the time spent taking a training course,  applying for a PTA, getting it approved, picking up the handgun, and registering it could be so precious that it was an affront to some people. Guns used in crimes come from straw purchases and the black market (stolen guns, and diverted ones).  If you wish to argue from the perspective of use cases for the gun control lobby, show me a statistic where your self-defense gun actually stopped an attack in HI. The liberals will argue that needing a gun 0.1% of the time does not justify its use. Just buy a dog.

Paranoia?

Right!   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

is it time to abolish the second amendment

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=is+it+time+to+abolish+the+second+amendment&atb=v314-7&ia=web
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

ren

If y'all don't like the laws of this state, why even bother living here? The only insurrectionists and seditionists who lose their right to own are weapon are convicted felons.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/oath-keeper-pleads-guilty-seditious-conspiracy-jan-attack/story?id=83212947

Up to 20 years in prison, and I hope they throw the book at him. This paranoia concerning the loss of 2A rights is getting childish. If you believe that the right to bear arms is absolute, then why exclude felons, children, schizophrenics, or those who are currently in prison for non-felony convictions. This quote is an embodiment of arguments made by the patron saint of conservative SCOTUS justices.

I can't believe that the time spent taking a training course,  applying for a PTA, getting it approved, picking up the handgun, and registering it could be so precious that it was an affront to some people. Guns used in crimes come from straw purchases and the black market (stolen guns, and diverted ones).  If you wish to argue from the perspective of use cases for the gun control lobby, show me a statistic where your self-defense gun actually stopped an attack in HI. The liberals will argue that needing a gun 0.1% of the time does not justify its use. Just buy a dog.
You are happy with the way things are now. No CCW. No open carry. Not even Tasers. Only place to have firearms is in the home and at range for us non LE citizens.
What other gun control measures would you welcome? Magazine restrictions / bans?
Deeds Not Words

changemyoil66

When u are a felon,u lose multiple rights, not just the 2a. Same with a child and when in prison. So its across the board. This is a huge diff compared being a person of age and clean record just losing only the 2a. Or part of it.

Skitzos idk about outside of HI.

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changemyoil66

If y'all don't like the laws of this state, why even bother living here? The only insurrectionists and seditionists who lose their right to own are weapon are convicted felons.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/oath-keeper-pleads-guilty-seditious-conspiracy-jan-attack/story?id=83212947

Up to 20 years in prison, and I hope they throw the book at him. This paranoia concerning the loss of 2A rights is getting childish. If you believe that the right to bear arms is absolute, then why exclude felons, children, schizophrenics, or those who are currently in prison for non-felony convictions. This quote is an embodiment of arguments made by the patron saint of conservative SCOTUS justices.

I can't believe that the time spent taking a training course,  applying for a PTA, getting it approved, picking up the handgun, and registering it could be so precious that it was an affront to some people. Guns used in crimes come from straw purchases and the black market (stolen guns, and diverted ones).  If you wish to argue from the perspective of use cases for the gun control lobby, show me a statistic where your self-defense gun actually stopped an attack in HI. The liberals will argue that needing a gun 0.1% of the time does not justify its use. Just buy a dog.
U can tell a prevented rape victim that their gun isnt worth the 0.1% chance.


U cant compare HI because no one is allowed to carry a gun outside of the home. So its unknown and there are zero examples because anyone who did carry is doing so illegally and thus a felon.

Not everyone has the time that u have or the $ to take off from work to go thru the process. As stated in testimony recently, it cost 1 guy $800 to go thru the process. He is a business owner and had to stop operations to make time to do what u posted. This was for the bill that the state wants u to bring ur gun in for a physical inspection.

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hvybarrels

Hey Doc did you get lost? Are you sure you didn’t accidentally type in 2ahi instead of Moms Demand Action?

This site is dedicated to protecting the 2nd Amendment in Hawaii, not undermining it.
If you allow government to break the law for an "emergency" they will create "emergencies" to break the law.

changemyoil66

My NV CCW instructor had a real life situation. A woman he taught parks in a dark isolated employee lot and went back to her car at 2am. There is only 1 way in and 1 way out. She was approached by a group of men and as they got closer, she put her hand on her handgun that was IWB.  She was the only car in the lot so it's not like they were going to someone else and the entrance is no where in the direction. So they were approaching her. All stopped in their tracks and turned around and dug out. She called 911, but since no crime was broken, no report made or arrest.  But they did catch up to the group of guys and warned them that Metro is watching.

So this is an undocumented situation but a handgun carried outside the home saved her.  Nationwide the CDC/FBI estimate 500,000-1,000,000 times a gun is used for self defense. Many go unreported/no paper trail.

In HI that made news headlines was the shooting in Mililani where the homeowner shot at a guy who had a knife. Then there's the Kalihi housing incident where the homeowner killed the kid who had a bb gun, was throwing stuff at his home and he called 911 multiple times and cops showed up multiple times and nothing was done. But none of these CCW/OC apply. The Mililani incident, no charges filed against the homeowner, the Kalihi one, he has  a trial pending. IDK if he posted bail or not.