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Hurry up with those permits Chief (Read 101181 times)

Rocky

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #420 on: September 09, 2022, 03:11:24 PM »


     Now my question is, do we qualify using the Shooting Proficiency test as in the Rules of COP (15-20 1 (C) or those in the Supplement to Apply for License to Carry ? :wacko:

 
« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 02:17:25 PM by Rocky »
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4mifamilia

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #421 on: September 09, 2022, 03:55:19 PM »
for those on here that are NRA instructors - for the proposed amendment 15-20 2(B) - requiring the instructor to have an active attorney conduct the law portion of the written exam.  Is this something common or happens in other states?  I'm assuming the cost of hiring a lawyer will be passed down to the applicants, again increasing the cost for us to exercise our rights in addition to the additional costs of signing up for membership at private gun clubs and associated costs with that to practice for the shooting qualification.  trying to prepare my written testimony as there are a lot of great points of view on this thread.  mahalo in advance
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QUIETShooter

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #422 on: September 10, 2022, 11:41:01 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong but Kaui has the testing requirements using the weak hand.  HPD's testing requirements does not.  Not sure what the Big Island's testing requirements are.

This is like herding cats.  And the CCW permit is not valid between counties?  How stupid.
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Heavies

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #423 on: September 10, 2022, 12:03:32 PM »
Lawyers, head shrinks, extra special practical tactical tests. No place to train or even administer the live fire……All this is overly burdensome and will definitely be prohibitive for lower income folks to even have a chance of applying or getting a permit to exercise their damn rights. Lower income areas are the very places where one needs their rights the most. This is becoming a pay to play scheme.


This is all a dog and pony show. They give not one rip about your suggestions or input. Typical democrat authoritarian tyranny. Right in plain view right here.
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changemyoil66

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #424 on: September 10, 2022, 01:36:46 PM »
Quote from: QUIETShooter on September 10, 2022, 11:41:01 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but Kaui has the testing requirements using the weak hand.  HPD's testing requirements does not.  Not sure what the Big Island's testing requirements are.

This is like herding cats.  And the CCW permit is not valid between counties?  How stupid.
BI is like Kauai. Oahus one is not solid yet and can change after the 10/4 hearing.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

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Flapp_Jackson

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #425 on: September 10, 2022, 01:50:34 PM »
I'm confused.

Since when did "We'll have a hearing in October" become synonymous with "We'll start issuing the licenses by the end of August?"

Does anybody in government ever have to account for the things they do and say?
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
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QUIETShooter

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #426 on: September 10, 2022, 03:57:31 PM »
It almost seems like the Oct.4th Hearing is just to say "THIS IS WHAT'S COMING DOWN AND TOUGH SHIITE IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT."

You can testify but your two minutes, or your e-mail, or your handwritten letter will be met with a smile and a "Thank you for coming but don't let the door slam you in the ass on your way out".
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ren

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #427 on: September 10, 2022, 04:02:31 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on September 10, 2022, 01:50:34 PM
I'm confused.

Since when did "We'll have a hearing in October" become synonymous with "We'll start issuing the licenses by the end of August?"

Does anybody in government ever have to account for the things they do and say?
I think the Chief was under a lot of political pressure to walk back on his initial statement. I think the City and/or State leadership stepped in and removed the Chief from authorizing any law-abiding citizen CCW. Well, for those that are not politically connected of course. The "powers that be" could not fathom the average citizen protecting themselves without help from the government. We have devolved into a population that relies heavily on the State of Hawaii. That's why we have one of the largest per capita governments in the U.S. But back to topic.

I guess we'd have to look at all those that were granted in the past and if they were given the same requirements. I doubt Ben Cayetano could pass all those reqs.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2022, 04:43:16 PM by ren »
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changemyoil66

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #428 on: September 10, 2022, 04:14:56 PM »
Quote from: Flapp_Jackson on September 10, 2022, 01:50:34 PM
I'm confused.

Since when did "We'll have a hearing in October" become synonymous with "We'll start issuing the licenses by the end of August?"

Does anybody in government ever have to account for the things they do and say?
And he only mentioned it when someone called in to the last radio show of august. Not like a hifico officer went to hpd everyday and logan could have let him know.

How long did logan know of this hearing? This is why i said corruption and 1 person doubts it.

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RSN172

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #429 on: September 10, 2022, 09:49:29 PM »
All this bullshit and I am.pretty.sure you will have to go through it every year. Every 6 months if Lee and Rhoads get their way.  Any other state has a CCW permit time that short?  This is why so many say F it and carry anyway.  Take the rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 and it is my constitutional right permit.

A lot of people.who need it the most will not qualify because of their physical condition.   Arthritis, a stroke, injury and a dozen other reasons why one cannot use their "weak" hand.
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QUIETShooter

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #430 on: September 11, 2022, 06:25:06 AM »
Quote from: RSN172 on September 10, 2022, 09:49:29 PM
All this bullshit and I am.pretty.sure you will have to go through it every year. Every 6 months if Lee and Rhoads get their way.  Any other state has a CCW permit time that short?  This is why so many say F it and carry anyway.  Take the rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 and it is my constitutional right permit.

A lot of people.who need it the most will not qualify because of their physical condition.   Arthritis, a stroke, injury and a dozen other reasons why one cannot use their "weak" hand.

I wasn't that optimistic about the statement from the Chief about being able to start issuing permits at the end of August.  I am extremely disappointed but not surprised it was walked back and now we have an Oct. 4th Hearing.

Little by little new information came out, many of them vague and totally unrealistic.  Type 2 holsters required.  Weak hand included in live fire qualification.  1 year or less before renewal of license.  Going through all the circus hoops again and again to "re-new" the license.  (In reality, it's a new application, just like when you "re-new" a long gun permit.)  Total BS.

Oh, and a separate application if you want to carry another firearm for CCW.  Just like when you want to acquire another handgun.  Separate application.  Another qualification test.  Another one of the endless string of BS spewing out of the counties and state of Hawaii.

Again, extremely disappointing but sad to say, not surprising.

For me, Oct. 4th cannot come soon enough.  It will finally present the CCW program in all it's glory and BS.  Testimonies will be taken but I sincerely doubt it will change anything.

The faster this date comes and goes, the faster I can lend support to any lawsuit actions taken against this BS.

I'm not schooled in the legal aspect of things, but I can support those who are and have the courage and willingness to fight them. 

edited to add:  I still plan to submit written testimony.
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Rocky

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #431 on: September 11, 2022, 07:33:17 AM »
No body has an answer ?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 02:16:38 PM by Rocky »
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RSN172

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #432 on: September 11, 2022, 07:54:41 AM »
Quote from: Rocky on September 11, 2022, 07:33:17 AM
No body has an answer ?
If I was administering the test, the distance would be 3 ft and 95%.
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Happily living in Puna

wirecounter

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #433 on: September 11, 2022, 07:58:08 PM »
Heads
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zippz

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #434 on: September 12, 2022, 08:53:59 AM »
Quote from: QUIETShooter on September 09, 2022, 11:50:29 AM
I fail to understand why this part of the test is even needed.  I certainly understand some competency in shooting with the weak hand, but to test someone and specify no time constraints, it doesn't make sense.

It's not like the perpetrator is gonna say, "No worries, Bro, take your time."

I mean, in a way it's good for the CCW candidate that there are no time constraints for the weak hand while undergoing the test but I argue that this is irrelevant and should be eliminated.

Many CCW tests do not have time limits for several reasons.  To allow the elderly and those with disabilities to pass.  Allow for things like derringers to reload during the string.  Governments view is ensure the CCW holder doesn't miss the target and hit bystanders and not if the person can defend themself.

For training, time limits and speed are a good thing.
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zippz

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #435 on: September 12, 2022, 08:58:44 AM »
Quote from: 4mifamilia on September 09, 2022, 03:55:19 PM
for those on here that are NRA instructors - for the proposed amendment 15-20 2(B) - requiring the instructor to have an active attorney conduct the law portion of the written exam.  Is this something common or happens in other states?  I'm assuming the cost of hiring a lawyer will be passed down to the applicants, again increasing the cost for us to exercise our rights in addition to the additional costs of signing up for membership at private gun clubs and associated costs with that to practice for the shooting qualification.  trying to prepare my written testimony as there are a lot of great points of view on this thread.  mahalo in advance

Some other states have this requirement, and NRA CCW policy requires a LEO or attorney to teach the law portion as part of the CCW class.  Of course being an attorney or LEO doesn't mean their necessarily qualified to teach self-defense law.

If this is implemented, my solution was to have one attorney teach multiple classes at the same time through zoom.  The instructors would tune into zoom at a certain time and get the class from the attorney.  That way you could teach 100 students at the same time at an affordable cost.
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zippz

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #436 on: September 12, 2022, 09:00:23 AM »
Quote from: changemyoil66 on September 09, 2022, 01:16:29 PM
Add in anyone who's unable to use their other hand due to an injury or deformity. Like Flapp said, it's a way for them to add failure in.

They would have to allow for accomodations due to Americans with Disabilities Act.  Most likely have them shoot with the same hand again.
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zippz

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #437 on: September 12, 2022, 09:07:57 AM »
Quote from: Rocky on September 11, 2022, 07:33:17 AM
No body has an answer ?
[/quote

The supplemental is only for Kauai and Hawaii county, so Honolulu would go by the test in the policy if implemented.  However since Kauai copied the Hawaii County's policy, I wonder if it was the AG's guidance and HPD would swap to the same policy and test on October 4th.

HPD might allow the instructor to select the target.  If not then my guess on the target used is the same one HPD uses which uses 5 point federal silhouette qual target.  Though it's not a certified NRA target.  Likely a mistake.





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Rocky

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #438 on: September 12, 2022, 11:07:13 AM »
« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 02:15:44 PM by Rocky »
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“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

changemyoil66

Re: Hurry up with those permits Chief
« Reply #439 on: September 12, 2022, 11:10:03 AM »
Quote from: Rocky on September 12, 2022, 11:07:13 AM
Thanks Zipp

Not all of my students are avid 2aHawaii followers so today I emailed ALL of my past NRA Basic Pistol students and Utah CFP students the HPD Chief rules, Testimony link and Hearing time/date/location.
Those submitting testimony in person or submitted written go to front of line for CCW test.

I thought we went over this and you posted the water bottle image cause I asked about KHSC not allowing human targets.
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